Undefined Marisa Tashman

Hi Friends! On this happy Friday, I share with you my conversation with Gena Chieco, who left the practice of law to start her own executive and life coaching practice. Prior to starting her coaching practice, Gena served in the Obama Administration, practiced law at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and worked as General Counsel and Chief of Staff to the CEO at a cleantech startup. We discuss her travel sabbatical that ultimately led her to leave the law to start her coaching practice, her journey to integrate all parts of herself, the value of stillness and solitude, and shifting away from people pleasing.
A major theme running through this episode is the idea of stillness and solitude — both are states of being that tend to make humans uncomfortable. As you will hear when you listen, Gena models becoming comfortable with these states, ultimately using them as a tool to know and connect with herself.
Every year (tbh, it’s only been two), I intentionally travel alone to practice stillness and solitude. A portion of this time is spent with my phone on airplane mode. At first, such as when I’m driving to my destination, I notice myself feel more attuned to my environment, as if all colors are brighter. My body feels open and expanded. At some point, usually during my first meal alone or first arriving at my place of stay (when I undoubtedly contemplate how an intruder may enter and kidnap me), I notice myself begin shifting a bit more in my seat, reaching for my phone, craving connection with the outside world. This discomfort subsides as I begin to focus again on my environment, my feet on the floor, the sounds traveling through my ears.
I ask myself, why is airplane mode so uncomfortable during these first few moments of solitude, when I feel so comfortable flipping to airplane mode each night as I prepare to wind down, my heart even fluttering as I think about how nobody in the world can reach me?
Humans are connected creatures. Besides my nightly airplane mode, I tend to furiously flip to airplane when I am anxious, on the verge of panic — when I feel trapped, seeking any means of escape. I rarely, however, flip to airplane when I am not (a) winding down for the night or (b) approaching panic. It is in the moments when I otherwise would be plugged in when I find airplane mode most valuable, but riddled with discomfort. A forced stillness; forced solitude.
I think about how before cell phones, computers, the internet, etc., humans spent so much more time alone. If you watch any period piece set pre-1900 (The Gilded Age is my most recent example), you will notice solo leisure time is spent drawing, reading, painting, walking, or any other activity involving going inward. No iPhone present.
Constant (and instant) connection has resulted in me squirming in my own body during the first few moments of conscious solitude, grasping for anything to entertain myself — a book, watercolors, exercise, cooking, talking to myself. At first, I may judge my grasping as though I am trying to distract myself from being “truly alone.” I then soon realize my ability to entertain myself and I smile, even laugh. I think I’m fun (and sometimes funny). I now relish those moments where I am able to entertain myself, disconnected from the rest of the world, becoming my own best friend. I connect with myself most in these moments, though I need to be intentional about initially setting aside that time.
Spending time alone is not the default for many of us. But perhaps that makes us appreciate it more? So long as we can crawl out of the discomfort and avoid spiraling. Each time is easier, growing more comfortable with the discomfort. The value of stillness and solitude becomes more apparent, more obvious, as it did for Gena during her travel sabbatical. Ultimately leading to a drastic career change, Gena was able to lean in to her discomfort, savor it, get to know herself more deeply, and com

Hi Friends! Today, I am excited to share my conversation with Arianna Maag, a Human Design reader and Program Manager of Employee Experience at Microsoft.
Arianna and I met each other through our mutual friend, Michelle Pellizzon (founder of Holisticism and one of the most magical humans I know...truly she’s a wizard/witch), who introduced us when I ventured up to Portland at the start of 2021. From our first coffee date (very early in the morning...thank you, Arianna, for being down with that), we instantly connected. Both Arianna and I have two very distinct sides to ourselves and I admire how Arianna has made a career out of both. On the one hand, she is a boss at Microsoft, creating positive employee experiences in a corporate environment. On the other, she is a mystical Human Design reader, using her intuition and knowledge about how the stars and planets line up to help people connect with themselves. Both sides involve people, which is not surprising if you know Arianna - an extremely warm, joyful, host of all gatherings. Arianna and her husband, Eric, moved from the Bay Area to Newberg, Oregon, a town about an hour away from Portland, in wine country. On their property, which features a log cabin house, you can also find grape vines and garden snakes underneath rocks surrounding a picnic table where they host gatherings consisting of farm-fresh food and playful company. The couple, with their two adorable boys, models how many of us dream to live - escaping the city life, to a life more full of authentic and slowed-down connection to the earth.
Meeting Arianna has inspired me to discover how I can feel more connected to both sides of myself. As many of you know, one part of me practices law, while the other practices creativity and spirituality. If you spoke to me a few years ago, you’d likely know that the highly rigid and diligent attorney dominated, completely overshadowing the creative and spiritual. Throughout the past few years, however, each side has learned the language of the other. They can speak to each other now. Are kind to each other. And, most importantly, they understand that although they may look, act, and think differently, they can bring each other into their own worlds without it being so scary. With the creative and spiritual valuing deep human connection, she brings that into the rigid through her mentor/mentee relationships at work, through her relationships with her investigation teams, and through connecting with her clients in an impactful way. On the flip side of the coin, with the rigid and “type A” valuing systems of organization, she brings processes to her creative art-making, diligence to her self-care practices, and accountability to how she connects with a higher power.
We all have these two sides to ourselves. One side is no better, or stronger, or more successful than the other. I encourage you to reflect on the following, which I hope will bridge the connection between the two seemingly distinct sides:
* What are three adjectives that describe each side? Or perhaps you have more than two sides. Describe all of them.
* Who inspires you to live your life in a more integrated way? Which qualities of this person can you adopt? How?
* How do you think each side could show more compassion to the opposing side? How do they help each other?
Some Related and Fun Links:
* Mybodygraph (where you can find your Human Design chart - it is kind of confusing and I’m happy to walk anyone through it, just reply to this email)
* Arianna’s website (where you can book a reading) and her Instagram
* The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker (what Arianna was reading when we recorded)
* The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt (what I’m currently reading - absolutely epic novel gifted to me by my friend and former co-clerk, Anya)
* Talking To Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell (the non-fiction I’m currently reading)
* The Isolation Journals by Suleika Jaouad (a beautiful newsletter I’ve been loving lat

Hi! and Happy New Year! Go 2022! Today I share my conversation with Dr. Eric Sienknecht, psychologist and founder of the Polaris Insight Center, a Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy clinic in San Francisco. We talk about a wide variety of topics in this episode, including:
* Developing an individual identity while being an identical twin
* Healing through experiencing non-ordinary states of consciousness
* Psychedelic therapy, including Ketamine-assisted therapy
* Growing up in Tennessee and attending an all-boys Christian high school
* Experiences with bullying by peers and teachers
* Mystical experiences
* Detaching from your emotions
* Holding space and self-care through mindfulness and listening to music
If you listened to the clip attached to this e-mail, you’ll know that we talk about how our experiences are governed by the information coming through our bodies (i.e., through our five senses). But what about what happens when the body is taken “offline” and when those senses are numbed? What is left?
I had a particularly notable experience where it felt like my body was taken offline (in the best way) right after Thanksgiving — when Jonathan proposed. The moment felt almost out of body in the sense that I no longer was “in control” of my emotions. Tears, laughter, and pure joy flooded through my body, almost creating a vibrating sensation, as if the emotional energy inside of me couldn’t stop moving. But I didn’t feel it just inside of me, I felt it surrounding me, as if my environment disappeared, as if the boundary between my body and my environment did not exist. I had tunnel vision, I heard no sounds other than the sounds directly in front of me, the rest of the beach we stood on disappeared. My emotional experience in that moment felt detached from my body, but also so in my body at the same time. How was this possible? Perhaps what I experienced was not just emotional, but spiritual as well. There was a connection between myself (not the self attached to my body) and the larger collective whole of the planet that I am a part of, not separate from.
After that day, I began to use my meditation practice to bring myself back into that moment. The feelings flooded back to me and I the vibrating all over again. I felt my body go “offline” all over again, and felt connected to whatever is spirit or that something larger all over again. These intensely emotional experiences are rare, and also uniquely human. The fact that we can re-experience them through reflection and meditation is even more uniquely human.
Links to this episode:
* Apple Podcasts
* Spotify

Inspired by this episode, I invite you to reflect on three questions:
* When in your life have you experienced your body going “offline” while still remaining conscious?
* Think back to a particularly emotionally-charged moment (positive or negative). What did your body feel like?
* How can you stay present in the most emotional of moments such that you can process and re-experience them after the fact through reflection or meditation?
And, some links I’ve recently found useful, inspiring, and are related to my episode with Eric:
* Polaris Insight Center - this is Eric’s Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy clinic
* Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) - I highly recommend signing up for their newsletter.
* Johns Hopkins Center for Psychedelic & Consciousness Research - If you are curious about recent (and very promising) research on therapeutic uses for psychedelics.
* Dr. Ralph Hood Jr., a psychologist who studied non-ordinary states of consciousness and developed the scale to measure mystical experiences
* Pahnke's "Good Friday" experiment wiki and thesis
* California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) - This is where Eric went to graduate school. CIIS is a leader in training therapists to use psychedelics in their work.
* Grof Legacy Project - I recently took a course called Sacred Medicine and the Psyche through

Hello hello! Hopefully this e-mail will give your brain a little break from withholding from all of the holiday-related shopping sale e-mails flooding your inbox…
Today, I released the 12th episode of Undefined, featuring my conversation with Dan Doty, a coach and guide for men, organizations, and leaders. Dan's programs focus on a unique blend of wilderness expeditions, deep somatic awareness, and emotional maturity. Before venturing out on his own (semi-pun intended), he produced and directed a wilderness TV show called Apex Predator and founded a men’s group/community platform called Evryman. Dan has been featured on many other podcasts and media outlets, including Joe Rogan, the Today Show, the New York Times, Men’s Health, among others. I was introduced to Dan by my friend Jon Marro, thanks Jon :), who I interviewed on episode 3 of the pod (that interview took place inside a barn, so if you’re in the mood to hear a cow moo, queue it up). As you may guess, my podcast can be found where they’re normally found: Spotify, Apple, and wherever else you might listen. And I successfully figured out how to include a short clip in this newsletter (woot woot so tech savvy).
In this episode, Dan and I share conversation about vulnerability—particularly male vulnerability—and how Dan returned to himself through somatic meditation. But what stuck with me most was our conversation about surrendering in the wilderness. I had an experience last summer when I camped alone in the Santa Cruz mountains. Even though I had pepper spray and a very blunt pocket knife with me, I slept in a vulnerable position. The walls of my tent easily could be cut through—or clawed through. My outdoor survival skills do not receive an A+*. And I regularly play out very vivid narratives of someone breaking into my house by climbing into my bedroom via a rope attached to my balcony spy style. And those narratives come up when I’m home. In a legitimate structure. Not a tent. But despite that, I somehow surrendered to the unknown, the uncertainty, and the darkness that fell over my camp site as the sun hid behind the mountains. I felt at peace. At home. And my mind finally fell silent.
Ironically, as I proceeded up the coast and stayed in an airbnb (not a tent) in Arcata, California, my intruder anxiety ran rampant. Noticing this paradox, I questioned whether I have an allergy to modern society. It felt effortless to feel calm when surrounded by trees. Only when I removed myself from our human world, did I realize that the barriers to this peace that normally do exist only exist because of the human world itself. So of course it felt effortless to surrender to presence, to the beauty that surrounded me, when the human world grew farther away. And now that I’m back in my human world, the challenge I face is bringing this ease of surrender to my living room, to my office, to restaurants, to the 405 freeway, and to everywhere else I go that feels far away from the forest. I remind myself that this ease of surrender exists within me regardless of where I am. As Dan talks about in this podcast episode, he found surrender while meditating in a NYC building. While hearing the sirens and the traffic and the helicopters and the honking, Dan surrendered and returned to himself. Just as he did in the wilderness.
On a related note, Tabor is now up to 10 minutes of alone time without having a full blown panic attack and destroying the house. Tabor is a dog, not a human. But a very emotional boy and an old soul. And for those of you who have met him, a “leaner.” All we know about his first year of life is that he spend it as a stray in El Centro, California. Perhaps Tabor is craving the wilderness. Perhaps he finds it easier to surrender in the trees, away from our human world. Just like I do. As his path to surrender regardless of his environment becomes easier, mine does too. Photo of him at the beach below.
An

Today I share my conversation with my close friend of almost 18 years, Rabbi Sarah Krinsky of Adas Israel in Washington D.C.
Topics Discussed
Collective trauma
Connecting and leading a community during the pandemic
Moving between sacred spaces
Jewish practice of Mussar
Knowing who we are vs. changing who we are
The desire to be accepted
Holding space and entering into someone else's trauma
Guilt from self-care
Discovering yourself and opening yourself up in partnership
Getting comfortable with uncertainty and letting go of control
The concept of divinity and "source"
Links
https://www.instagram.com/sykrinsky/ (Sarah's Instagram)
https://www.facebook.com/sarahykrinsky (Sarah's Facebook)
https://www.adasisrael.org/ (Adas Israel Congregation)
https://bookshop.org/books/a-visit-from-the-goon-squad/9780307477477 (A Visit From the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan)
https://mussarinstitute.org/ (The Mussar Institute)
Link to my https://www.instagram.com/marisatashman/ (Instagram), https://www.marisatashman.com/ (photography website), https://www.undefinedpodcast.com/ (podcast website), and https://www.patreon.com/undefinedpodcast (Patreon).
As always, thank you to https://www.instagram.com/goodcompanymgmt/ (Maytav Koter) and https://moseycreative.com/ (Spencer Stewart) for the music on my podcast. And to https://www.instagram.com/llllll.aura/ (Laura Strohbusch) for the podcast graphic.
Support this podcast

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theundefined.substack.com

Today, I share my conversation with Yahrodee Rodriguez, musician, producer, New York City public school teacher, and graduate of Juilliard (studying the trumpet!).
Topics Discussed:
Embracing "aloneness"
Staying in flow
Male sensitivity
Experiencing feeling lost
Rejected aspects of the self
Yahrodee's journey as a musician
Feeding off of other people's energy
Supporting yourself during periods of isolation
Leaning into spirituality
Mentalism
Spiritual bypassing
Working through stage fright and anxiety
Finding mentorship
Balancing extremes - being in the middle of the river
Links
https://www.instagram.com/yahrodee/ (Yahrodee's Instagram)
https://soundcloud.com/yahrodee/section-a?ref=clipboard&p=i&c=1 (Yahrodee's Soundcloud)
https://www.instagram.com/rp_meretalents/ (Ray Persaud - check out his work)
https://bookshop.org/books/the-ancient-secret-of-the-flower-of-life/9781891824173 (The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life) by Drunvalo Melchizedek
https://bookshop.org/books/the-jazz-of-physics-the-secret-link-between-music-and-the-structure-of-the-universe-9781520078151/9780465093571 (The Jazz of Physics) by Stephon Alexander
https://bookshop.org/books/the-kybalion-centenary-edition/9780143131687 (The Kybalion) by The Three Initiates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6xtcQDPF20 (Ham On Rye movie)
https://bookshop.org/books/war-against-all-puerto-ricans-revolution-and-terror-in-america-s-colony/9781568585611 (War Against All Puerto Ricans: Revolution and Terror in America's Colony) by Nelson A. Denis
Link to my https://www.instagram.com/marisatashman/ (Instagram), https://www.marisatashman.com/ (photography website), https://www.undefinedpodcast.com/ (podcast website), and https://www.patreon.com/undefinedpodcast (Patreon).
As always, thank you to https://www.instagram.com/goodcompanymgmt/ (Maytav Koter) and https://moseycreative.com/ (Spencer Stewart) for the music on my podcast. And to https://my.captivate.fm/laurastrohbusch.com (Laura Strohbusch) for the podcast graphic
Support this podcast

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theundefined.substack.com