Underland

Seth David
  • 5.0 (3)
  • PHILOSOPHY

Underland is a timespace in which to slow down and think - an experiment in living, breathing, systematic semiotics. Seth David is a psychodynamic therapist and philosophical theologian, feeling and thinking in place from Seattle-Snohomish, Cascadia.  

Episodes

  1. 06/02/2025

    Christus Incognito

    Book 2: The Illumination of the Gospel of John Part 4: Christus Incognito This episode concludes our 4-part overview of the Illumination of the Gospel of John.  We focus our attention on the curious manner of several of the Resurrected Christ's appearances - he appears in disguise, first to Mary Magdalene dressed like a gardener, then later to the male disciples, as an old man cooking fish by the sea.  We also consider related passages in Luke and Matthew's Gospels.  We consider the questions: why does he appear in disguise?  What do the scenes of re-cognition in John's narrative teach us?   What is the inner structure of Christianity, as opposed to the superficial form? I introduce the idea of the Johannine (Liberal/Psychodynamic) age of the church, wherein it is posited that Christ feels quite free to appear without being recognized as such.  He is not to be recognized in his superficial appearance, but in the very deeds and signs which distinguished him in life.   In this episode: 0:00 - Charting course: focus on the resurrection accounts 2:05 - The enigma of Christ's resurrected body 3:53 - The question: why does Christ like to appear in disguise? 3 stories 4:35 - #1. "Were not our hearts burning in our chests?" (Luke) 5:55 - The moment of recognition: He breaks bread 6:25 - #2. She mistook him for the gardener 7:10 - The moment of recognition: He speaks her name 8:35 - Correction from last episode! Phileo vs. Agape 10:15 - The reading: John 21:1-14  12:40 - #3. "None of them dared to ask, 'Who are you?'" 14:00 - The moment of recognition: The miraculous catch 15:30 - Fishers of men, fishing for souls 16:43 - Pragmatism - what is true is what works 17:40 - Liberal Christianity: Substance > Form 18:29 - Jesus' prophetic warning about nominal Christianity 19:56 - Erik's response: Intuitive and experiential knowing of Christ 23:20 - The book of Acts & the tragicomic issue of franchising Christ 24:36 - What is the essential inner structure of Christianity? 25:32 - Matthew's 'simple' answer in parable of Sheep and Goats 27:50 - Eyes of Christ, eyes of Love (Agape) 31:07 - The 3rd (Johannine) Age of the Church & Psychodynamic therapy 34:50 - Schleiermacher and Religious Liberalism 36:32 - Romanticism, Existentialism & the structure of Christianity 37:13 - The big picture: total integration of theology and psychology 38:46 - Erik's diagnosis of general populace: Disconnection 41:54 - Christianity as a How rather than a What 43:05 - Christ and reconnection to Love in the present 45:04 - The ongoing work of incarnation: on earth as in heaven 47:43 - Concluding the present series on John's Gospel

    49 min

  2. 05/10/2025

    The Last Master

    Book 2: An Illumination of the Gospel of John Part 3: The Last Master Here is part 3 of 4 in our Illumination of the Gospel of John. In this episode Erik and I discuss the last moments of Jesus with his disciples.  We compare Jesus' attitude to the stoic attitude of Socrates in Plato's Phaedo.   We consider what it means that Jesus elevates his disciples to the status of friends, looking at what this means in Scripture.  And we discuss the infilling of the Holy Spirit in relation to the psychological concept of internalization.  In this episode: 0:00: "The hour has come" - Looking at Ch. 12-17 of John 3:00: The last moments with the disciples 5:05: Comparison with Plato's Phaedo 6:05: Is Jesus stoic like Socrates? 8:32: The angst of Jesus 11:05: Jesus the human and Christ the God 12:35: The betrayer at the table  16:02: When did Jesus realize who would betray him? 18:28: Speculations on kenosis and incarnation 21:10: On friendship love: Phileo 23:48: Moses' friendship with God 24:48: Jesus' friendship with God 25:59: "No longer do I call you servants, but friends" 27:22: Jesus graduates his disciples 30:12: Why is it better for Jesus to go away? vis-a-vis mentorship? 34:05: Psychological internalization and the infilling of the Spirit 36:35: Pentecost - God becomes Open Source 42:12: The Holy Spirit as "Paraklete" - Encourager 46:10: Divergence, tension, and reconciliation of Peter & Paul 48:22: Recap of this section and prospective of part 4 51:40: Premonitions of the Johannine church, conversations to come 53:56: The imminent descent for the disciples, Jesus' prayer for them

    56 min

  3. 04/18/2025

    Signs of Aionion Life

    Book 2: An Illumination of the Gospel of John      Part 2: Signs of Aionion Life       This episode continues the overview of the Gospel of John with my friend Erik.  In this episode, we consider the Johannine focus on life, and the special quality of life called "aionion" - usually translated as eternal.  We consider the part of John's Gospel (Ch. 2-11) which is structured around 7 signs, with special attention to the first sign: turning the water of purification to the wine of conviviality.  An apologia is offered for Jesus' being positively associated with Dionysus, as he appears in the mystery cults - the highest development of Greek pagan religion.  The structure and (probable) content of the Dionysian mystery plays is discussed in connection with the incarnational motif of descent and ascent.  The asceticism of John the Baptist and the conviviality of Jesus are contrasted. Reference is made to Friedrich Schelling's (1841-42) Philosophy of Mythology and the ancient Greek work of Hesiod, Theogony.  We also discuss the case of Nietzsche at length, in terms of both the great vitality and the great dangers of Dionysian madness. In this episode: 0:00 - Charting course: overview of the seven signs 3:00 - Aionion and Aion 4:40 - The Age to Come 5:20 - Biblical religion vs. mythological consciousness 8:00 - The Reading: John Ch. 2  12:00 - Relation and difference of Dionysus and Christ 16:36 - The story and development of Dionysus 19:31 - Nietzsche's Dionysian vs. Apollonian 22:45 - Ascetic John and Jesus the Winebearer 27:51 - Jesus as liberator of the corrupted Temple 30:00 - The mystery cults and Dionysus 34:35 - 'Succession' in Hesiod and Schelling's Philosophy of Mythology 39:14 - A safe container for the descent and ascent 41:23 - The twin dangers of Dionysian madness and Apollonian deadness 43:14 - The tragic case of Nietzsche, his Victorian context 48:13 - The real miracle: Jesus embodies Dionysian vitality without sin

    50 min

  4. 04/02/2025

    The Voice of the Mystic Eagle

    Book 2: An Illumination of the Gospel of John       Part 1: The Voice of the Mystic Eagle        This episode introduces my study of John's Gospel, undertaken with the help of my friend Erik.  We consider the question: what is unique about John's Gospel, and why is the eagle a fitting symbol for him? Seth is a psychodynamic therapist, supervisor, and teacher practicing in the tradition of Object Relations.  Erik is a coach and spiritual guide trained in the tradition of psychosynthesis.  This Spring we plan to conduct an overview of John's Gospel in four parts - leaving open the possibility of a chapter by chapter study in the future. In this episode: 0:00 - Seasonal rhythm of the Gospels; the Johannine Spring 2:10 - The metaphor of "Illumination"; the plan for a 4-part series 3:15 - Introducing Erik as dialogue partner for this series 4:47 - Vision and format for Underland: a text and a friend 5:55 - Question for today: what is the unique voice of John's Gospel? 11:56 - The Four Gospel Creatures in Christian Iconography 15:20 - Mark, the Lion, the disciple of Peter: a Gospel tour de force 18:20 - Matthew, the Angel, and the 5 Rabbinic discourses 19:40 - Luke, the Ox, the physician and disciple of Paul 22:19 - John, the last living Apostle 27:30 - The 9th century Irish John: Iohannes Scotus Eriugena   30:09 - Quote from Eriugena: "The voice of the mystic eagle..." 32:05 - Observing actual eagle flight from sky to ground 34:05 - Reading John 1:1-5 - the nucleus of Christian "Theology" 38:19 - The Logos in Greek Philosophy vs. the Logos in Christianity 42:00 - Eriugena on the "Four elements of the universe of Scripture" 45:20 - Erik: Sun & Moon, Logos & Eros, Light & Shadow 48:00 - The work of theology as spiritual seeing 49:20 - New Testament images of Christ's Descent-Ascent 58:40 - Erik: the universal pattern of psychological metacrisis 1:01:55 - Tension between exclusivity and universality in Christianity 1:06:30 - Erik: the universal ethic is love 1:08:00 - The way of what is to come: toward universal religion 1:12:40 - Next episode to treat the "signs" in Jesus' messianic campaign

    1h 14m

  5. 12/01/2023

    The Road that Leads to Life (Righteousness III: the Future)

    Book 1: An Illumination of Matthew       Part 2: The Thesis of Jesus Chapter 7: The Road that Leads to Life (Righteousness III: the Future)        This episode concludes Part 2: The Thesis of Jesus.  Jake and I continue to study the 1st discourse of Jesus, the Sermon on the Mount - looking at chapter 7 of Matthew’s Gospel in the light of first three beattitudes, as well as the ethical-existential problem of orienting to the future. Here we look at Jesus' answer to the question of how one should live with respect to the future.  We discuss the "transjective equations" in Jesus' teaching, and how it relates to psychology - looking at psychodynamic concepts like projection, libido, and object-cathexis.  In this episode: 0:00 - Restart and Recap 3:45 - The 3rd Beattitude: Meekness + Reading 05:25 - On Jesus’ “Transjective Equations” (cf. John Vervaeke) 9:40 - Jesus’ discovery of psychological projection 14:00 - What is meekness? 19:10 - The strength which is in meekness 21:20 - How saints and poets inherit the earth  25:30 - Pop vs. Indie 28:40 - Was Jesus’ career a dud? 31:00 - The 2nd Beattitude: Mourning + Reading 32:40 - Ask-Seek-Knock vis-à-vis mourning and comfort 33:45 - On Freud’s paper “Mourning and Melancholia” 36:06 - The paradox of mourning 38:30 - Our modern culture and depression 42:10 - The Golden Transjective Equation 48:25 - The 1st Beattitude: Poor in Spirit + Reading 52:55 - Spiritually Poor, or Spirit of the Poor? 58:05 - The Narrow Gate and the Hard Road 1:01:30 - Doubt and the salesmen of security 1:04:00 - False security in the (literal) name of Christ 1:06:50 - Jesus’ Way is ultimately an ethic 1:11:00 - Concluding our discussion of the Sermon

    1h 14m

  6. 11/18/2023

    Trouble for Today (Righteousness II: the Present)

    Book 1: An Illumination of Matthew       Part 2: The Thesis of Jesus Chapter 6: Trouble for Today (Righteousness II: the Present)        This episode continues Part 2: The Thesis of Jesus.  Jake and I continue to discuss the 1st discourse of Jesus, the Sermon on the Mount, looking at chapter 6 of Matthew’s Gospel.  This chapter contains the heart of Jesus’ Thesis on Righteousness, or Ethics.  It is devoted to the question of the Present, and the power of the Present - which is the Eternal.  We discuss the difference between performative ethics and the ethical mysticism advocated by Jesus.    In this episode:   0:00 - Outlining the territory to be covered today 2:30 - The Lord’s Prayer as Jesus’ poetry 4:30 - Paul Tillich’s religious analysis of the present 6:20 - On Martin Buber’s dialogical conception of the eternal  10:10 - Dimensions of psychic experience and existential modes 14:40 - True Relation vs. Fusion to nondifference 17:30 - The 4th Beattitude: hunger and thirst for righteousness 18:05 - Reading of Matthew 6:1-18 21:25 - The principle: Being Seen vs. Being in Secret 25:45 - Mysticism and the closed realm of the secret place 28:50 - Illustration of the principle in alms, prayer, & fasting 31:20 - The Poor Face of Christ and the Christic Descent  37:05 - The central deception of performative ethics 39:25 - Analysis of the structure of The Lord’s Prayer 43:15 - The distinctive of Christian mysticism: “On earth as it is in heaven” 55:35 - The elements of the earthly: Bread, Debts, Temptations 1:00:35 - Reading of Matthew 6:19-34 1:03:45 - Why you can’t serve both God and money 1:06:15 - The link between value and perception 1:11:35 - Anxiety vs. Presence 1:15:25 - Existential anxiety vs. pathological anxiety

    1h 19m

  7. 10/30/2023

    Abolish or Fulfill? (Righteousness I: the Past)

    Book 1: An Illumination of Matthew       Part 2: The Thesis of Jesus Chapter 5: Abolish or Fulfill? (Righteousness I: the Past)        This episode continues Part 2: The Thesis of Jesus, beginning with the first discourse of Jesus - what has become known as the Sermon on the Mount.  Jake joins again - this time, in my therapy office in Seattle - and we discuss Jesus' masterpiece, his "thesis" on Righteousness, the foundational ethical teaching of Christian culture. Here we look at chapter 5 of Matthew's Gospel, which contains the first part of the Sermon on the Mount and pertains to right relationship to the past, the tradition, and the Father.  In the following episodes we will discuss chapters 6 and 7, which correlate to the questions of present and future.  In this episode: 0:45 - Recap last episode - the 3 dimensions of Jesus’ Messianic Campaign 2:45 - The combination of the 3 dimensions in the Sermon on the Mount 3:45 - What Jesus came to do with his life 5:45 - The symbolism of the Mount and the invocation of Moses/the Torah 10:10 - Reading of the Beattitudes 10:50 - The Beattitude and the invocation of David/the Psalms 13:50 - The Structure of the Sermon on the Mount 16:00 - The theme: Righteousness=Ethics=How to live 17:30 - The thesis: Righteousness is life lived from the heart; the heart is grounded in presence to the present; presence to the present requires right relationship to past and future 19:25 - Clearing space for the present 21:40 - The 8th beattitude: Persecuted for Righteousness 26:25 - Courage, despite paranoid anxiety 29:30 - Jesus embodies the courage to shine 31:20 - Abolish or Fulfill - on right relationship with the past 33:15 - Abolishing the past leads to the return of the repressed 36:50 - The 7th beattitude: Peacemakers 38:40 - The formula of fulfillment: “You have heard it said… but I say to you”  40:50 - The only reason why you haven’t killed anyone yet 44:45 - The most difficult ethical teaching ever given 48:00 - The 6th beattitude: Pure of Heart 50:35 - Purity - the undivided heart 52:10 - Being married to your one and only finite life 54:10 - The moral equivalence between porn consumers and sex workers 1:01:05 - The 5th beattitude: Mercy 1:03:15 - The oldest principle of law - retributive justice 1:08:00 - Growing into the full stature of ethical being 1:09:10 - The difference between mercy and passivity/masochism 1:12:50 - How Jesus embodies mercy on the cross 1:14:30 - Did Jesus do it so that we wouldn’t have to? 1:17:00 - The guidance of the Holy Spirit in the Gospel of John 1:20:05 - The first mention of “Heavenly Father” and the being of the Son 1:22:05 - Ultimate relations to past, present, and future: a glimpse of the Trinity 1:23:20 - Closing the book on this chapter

    1h 24m

  8. 10/22/2023

    Moonstruck & Demonriddled (The Clinical Context of Jesus)

    Book 1: An Illumination of Matthew       Part 2: The Thesis of Jesus Chapter 4: Moonstruck & Demonriddled (The Clinical Context of Jesus)        This episode opens Part 2: The Thesis of Jesus.  My friend Jake joins me and affords a dialogical approach to the content, as well as a chance to recap the meandering material in Part 1 (and I think this recap in dialogue was much better than the original meanderings from Fall 2020 - so much so that you could probably just skip it and start here).   We look at the beginning of Jesus' Messianic campaign, leading up to his first discourse, the Sermon on the Mount.  That discourse is what I'm calling The Thesis of Jesus, and this episode relates his 'clinical context', as well as the political and institutional context within which he presented his thesis. In this episode: 0:00 - Welcoming Jake and transitioning from monologue to dialogue - 1:45 - Illumination, not Illuminati! 2:35 - Recap of Part 1 and structure of Matthew’s gospel 5:35 - Difference between Matthew & Luke’s Nativity 7:15 - Matthew’s Jewish audience 08:00 - “The Biblical Dialectic of History” 09:10 - Matthew, the tax collector (!) 11:40 - Episode 2: “Of Dreams and Magi” 13:00 - Joseph’s spiritual pathway is dreaming 14:00 - Matthew and the Rabbinic institution 16:40 - Magi, the priesthood of Zoroastrianism 19:15 - The origin of religious dualism 21:30 - YHWH and Satan in the developing Hebraic consciousness 26:25 - The legend of Lucifer  29:45 - Episode 3 & “the John the Baptist moment” 30:50 - The Sanhedrin, the Sadduccess, & John’s priestly lineage 32:30 - John, the anti-establishment rebel 34:35 - John as Elijah-to-come: the Prophetic Principle 37:00 - The prophetic dimension of Jesus’ Messianic vocation 41:55 - The temptations in light of Jesus’ new-found political power 43:50 - The alignment and differentiation of John and Jesus 44:35 - Cultural Messianic expecations and unknowns 48:00 - Reading of Mt. 4:12-17: Jesus starts local 52:15 - The political dimension of Jesus’ Messianic Campaign 53:45 - Reading of Mt. 4:18-22: Jesus and the working class 56:25 - Why Jesus and the Pharisees are in conflict 58:00 - RFK Jr. and the Democrats in the 2024 “primaries” 59:20 - The need to read the political present through the Scriptures 1:00:30 - Reading of Mt. 4:23-25 1:02:05 - The 3 dimensions of the Messianic Vocation 1:03:35 - Working out the political dimension in our context 1:07:15 - Standing prophetically against U.S. imperialism & militarism 1:13:30 - The institutional dimension: Jesus is a Rabbi, teaches in the synagogue 1:19:20 - The personal dimension: Jesus the healer 1:21:30 - The loneliness of Jesus 1:22:45 - What kind of healer was Jesus? 1:25:30 - Attention to symptoms and suffering is therapeutic 1:29:20 - “Moonstruck & Demonriddled” as ancient psychopathology 1:31:20 - Jesus’ ‘clinical context’ grounds his ‘thesis’

    1h 35m

  9. 11/19/2020

    Revolutionary Ferment

    Book 1: An Illumination of Matthew       Part 1: The Dark Ground of Christ       Chapter 3: Revolutionary Ferment        This episode concludes Part 1: The Dark Ground of Christ.  I look at the John the Baptist "moment" and the densely symbolic temptation sequence together as providing the final external and internal preparations for Christ to emerge.     1:03 – What John the Baptist represents      2:56 – The social position and values of the Sadducees     4:12 – The social position and values of the Pharisees     5:28 – The two-party governing body of the Sanhedrin     6:23 – The John the Baptist moment / movement     7:51 – The Jewish-Roman wars in the background of the Gospels      9:03 – The ambiguity of John’s vocation: “clearing the way”     9:56 – The transfer of authority & expectation at Jesus’ baptism     11:27 – Jesus’ need to become intimately acquainted with Satan     13:31 – What did Jesus do during his 20’s?      14:17 – Time to be born (an existential sermonette)      15:38 – The actuality of Jesus’ temptation     16:53 – Temptation 1: meet everyone’s concrete/immediate needs     20:09 – Answer 1: we live not by bread alone, but by every divine word     22:48 – Temptation 2: do a publicity stunt     24:31 – Answer 2: do not put YHWH (Being) to the test       26:34 – Temptation 3: give yourself to pursuing political power to do the “greatest” good      29:51 – Answer 3 is ultimately what Jesus actually did instead of pursuing power

    31 min

  10. 10/22/2020

    Of Dreams & Magi

    Book 1: An Illumination of Matthew        Part 1: The Dark Ground of Christ        Chapter 2: Of Dreams & Magi          This recording reflects my thinking process with respect to this chapter, which aims to be a commentary on Matthew 1:18-2:23.  I open up a discussion of a psychoanalytic picture of dreaming, and of Christianity's debt to Zoroastrian religion.   I have not clarified my theses yet, so the thinking here is circling around a center which remains dark.  I am including headings below to aid in following the train of thought.  I am looking for people to think with me, so please share any reflections or questions with me.         0:15: Joseph & Joseph: the dream of grandiosity & the grandiosity of the dreamer -  1:25: What does “dreaming” have to do with actual dream-specimens? -  2:15:  Dreaming within Wilfred Bion’s metabolic model of ‘learning from experience’ -  4:05:  Freud as pioneer opening up the terrain of dream exploration in the modern world -  6:02:  The dream as the link, in the modern world, to myth and religion -  8:35:  Teleology and trickery in dream life -  10:30:  Jung and the creative unconscious -  11:20:  Freud’s “historical-critical” approach to the sacred text of the dream -  12:32: The will to conceal and the will to reveal in the dream-intelligence -  13:30: Herod and the magi, Herod’s paranoia -  15:07: Who are the magi? Christianity’s relationship to the religions of the East -  16:41: The split between fundamentalism and “everything is the same” -  18:15: “We saw his star rising in the east” -  19:02:  Magi & the Zoroastrian religious development -  21:58:  Zoroastrian concept of “Asha” as precursor of the logos -  24:04: The Zoroastrian origin of the messianic golden age -  25:14: Duality and the differentiation of Yahweh and Satan -  28:16:  The 'Ransom' view of atonement vs. penal substitutionary atonement -  29:57: Schelling’s ontotheological view and the “pre-temporal sequence” -  33:28: The East-West gradient of religion -  35:55: The heart of Zoroastrian dualism: the truth and the lie -  36:48: 2nd temple Judaism, “the teacher of righteousness,” and messianic expectation -  39:35: The radical humility & unusual self-interpretation of the exilic community

    41 min

  11. 09/23/2020 ·  BONUS

    Living, Breathing, Systematic Semiotics

    What is Underland?  One way I'm answering is: that it is an experiment in living, breathing, systematic semiotics.  Here, I take an initial stab at defining what I think that means.  Ultimately, this will take its definition from what unfolds over time - what Underland becomes.

    11 min

  12. 09/22/2020

    The Biblical Dialectic of History

    Book 1: An Illumination of the Gospel of Matthew      Part 1: The Dark Ground of Christ     Chapter 1: The Biblical Dialectic of History      This episode inaugurates the show, the series, and the first part.  I'm looking at Matthew 1:1-17, and exploring the question of history as it is framed by the Bible, reading Christ as the fulfillment of the classical Hebrew tradition.  I'm attempting to reveal my thinking process in Fall of 2020 as I sit with the Gospel of Matthew and, in the background, Schelling's Ages of the World.

    38 min
  • 12 Episodes

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About

Underland is a timespace in which to slow down and think - an experiment in living, breathing, systematic semiotics. Seth David is a psychodynamic therapist and philosophical theologian, feeling and thinking in place from Seattle-Snohomish, Cascadia.  

Information

  • Creator
    Seth David
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2025
  • Episodes
    12
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Underland
  • Show Website
    Underland