Unlearn

Asher Mathew & Kelly Sarabyn
Unlearn

Digital transformation has changed the way businesses buy. But the direct marketing and sales playbooks that are decades old are still in use. On Unlearn, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn talk to leaders who are unlearning old motions and innovating in how they Go-To-Market. We take a deep dive into community, partnerships and ecosystems, dark social, customer centricity, market incentives, and new tactics none of us have heard of yet but are already working.

  1. JUL 31

    Ep 29 | The Ripple Effects of Social Media: Understanding Impacts and Driving Positive Change

    On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher Mathew & Kelly Sarabyn engage in a compelling discussion on the impacts of social media. They are joined by author Tobias Rose-Stockwell, known for his book "Outrage Machine,"  Tobias, a seasoned researcher in technology's societal impacts, shares insights gathered over a decade of study. His expertise sheds light on how platforms like Slack can disrupt workplace dynamics and productivity.  The episode delves into the complexities of social media's influence, exploring themes of workplace disruption, productivity challenges, and strategies for enhancing online trust and fact-checking. Listeners gain valuable insights into navigating the evolving landscape of social media and its broader implications. Chapters -  00:00 - Social media's impact on workplace productivity and interpersonal relationships.  7:56 - How digital communication changes social dynamics in the workplace.  12:38 - How social media impacts moral emotions and mental health.  16:32 - Social media companies' ethical issues and how they prioritize engagement over morality.  21:03 - LinkedIn's algorithm and its impact on content visibility and toxicity. 27:51 - LinkedIn algorithm and content optimization.  31:50 - Creating and managing online communities, with a focus on engagement and outcomes.  35:30 - Content moderation challenges in social media platforms.  39:19 - Improving social media fact-checking through community-driven, AI-augmented platforms.  43:35 - Building trust in social media with a focus on verification engines and trust and safety teams.  Key Takeaways -  Social media platforms like Slack can negatively impact workplace productivity and creativity due to constant distractions and performance-based interactions Writing text removes non-verbal cues and context, making online communication more open to misinterpretation compared to in-person interactions  Prioritizing engagement alone can incentivize the spread of misinformation over truthful information on social media Community-driven fact-checking and citations from reputable sources can help combat viral misinformation spread on social media platforms The concept of building a "market for trust" by prioritizing validated information over viral hits in the long run could create more value for social media platforms Key Quotes - "I feel like LinkedIn is really changing. When I first started using it, it was a straightforward network where people had small circles. Now it seems like there are ccircles within circles. Different content is shown to different people, even in different countries. There was this creative explosion initially, but now every week I hear people frustrated because their reach and impressions are down. It feels like we've fallen into the situation you're describing."  - Asher Mathew "There's some really interesting research and history regarding LinkedIn's efforts to make its feed less toxic. Back in the day, most social media platforms didn't even have a news feed. When LinkedIn started, it was more about who you were connected to rather than having a feed. They implemented a feed early on, but then they actually turned it off due to spikes in garbage content, spam, and other issues typical of user-generated content networks. After a hiatus, they restarted the feed, around 2017 if I remember correctly, in a read-only format. They also selected specific influencers who could post to the feed, aiming for global reach with a small number of chosen influencers in the early days." - Tobias Rose-Stockwell "I do think Wikipedia is a great example. People perceive it as very neutral, right? I've never heard anyone say, 'Wikipedia has a liberal bias' or something like that. It just comes across as neutral. I think it's hopeful that this neutrality can be embedded into social networks."  - Kelly Sarabyn

    52 min
  2. JUL 20

    Ep 28 | Evolving Partnership Models: Insights on Transforming Programs at Hyper Growth Scale

    On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Ritu Khanna, Vice President of Partnerships at Shopify. Under Ritu's leadership, Shopify has unified previously segmented partner functions, generating new synergies that drive the company's continued hypergrowth. With a proven track record in transforming traditional models to thrive amidst digital disruption, Ritu offers valuable insights into connecting ecosystems, embracing disruption, and guiding partners through an era of profound change. Tune in as we explore Ritu's firsthand perspectives on navigating partnership transformations in today's dynamic business landscape. Chapters -  00:00 - Partnerships and product extensibility at Shopify.  06:24 - Partner types and their evolution in software companies.  10:53 - Partnerships and alignment in product development.  16:55 - Transforming Shopify's partner program to accommodate more complex market segments while still supporting SMB partners.  21:34 - Partnering with ISVs and ISPs to offer complementary products and services.  27:52 - Reselling and bundling software products on marketplaces.  33:13 - Leveraging partnerships for growth in the ecosystem.  40:55 - Partnering and leadership in a rapidly changing business landscape. Key Takeaways - Partnerships need to evolve over time to stay aligned with changing products and business needs. Regular communication and flexibility are important. Connecting different partner types (e.g. SMB and enterprise partners) and blurring boundaries can create synergies and new opportunities for growth. Leadership plays a key role in navigating major transformations while keeping partners motivated through recognition, highlighting progress, and embracing change. Co-selling and building complementary value propositions together is generally more effective than direct reselling of other companies' products. Marketplaces are enabling more bundled and efficient partner/ISV relationships through low transaction fees and discoverability compared to traditional channels. Key Quotes - "I think some of the biggest opportunities lie in connecting dots across the different areas that exist in the world of partnerships, whether that's across different partner types or the same partner types serving different segments. The goal is to create a fully functional and operationally efficient engine. While there may not be 100% overlap, there's certainly a Venn diagram of creativity worth exploring that will deliver strong results."  - Ritu Khanna "The efficiency would be if another company's sales rep sells your product instead of your own. That's what most revenue leaders aim for. However, integrating Shopify with another product for resale can be quite complicated, as we discussed."  - Asher Mathew "I think ours is more focused on what I would call mid-market and on-market versus enterprise. But it is interesting listening to what you're saying, because that is a huge transformation. You still have all your SMB customers, right? And you still have all your SMB partners. So, is your program incredibly complex now because it accommodates these different partners for different customers? I assume they're still key to the Shopify portfolio as well." - Kelly Sarabyn

    49 min
  3. JUL 12

    Ep 27 | Transforming Partnerships in a Digital World: Evolving Strategies, Aligning Teams and Staying Focused Through Change

    On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher and Kelly connect with Louise McEvoy, Vice President of US Channel Sales at Trend Micro. Louise shares her insights on building channel programs while balancing a demanding career with her passion for mountain climbing. The discussion covers topics such as obtaining executive buy-in for new models, modernizing competencies for channel leaders, and prioritizing tasks as a busy executive. The speakers explore adapting to changing market conditions, rethinking success metrics, and focusing on revenue growth, program development, and team support amid industry transformations. This conversation provides valuable perspectives on the challenges and opportunities facing partnership executives in today's digital landscape.   Chapters -  00:00 - Balancing demanding career and non-career pursuits with a mountaineer. 06:20 - Transforming a channel through relationships and ecosystems. 10:06 - Unlearning traditional channel models and adopting new strategies for value creation. 15:55 - Transforming business models in the tech industry. 20:34 - Partner strategy, executive buy-in, and market shifts. 26:26 - Leveraging marketplaces for ISVs to resell products without embedding another ISV's product. 31:21 - Marketplaces, bundling, and corporate sponsorship. 38:06 - Modern partnership leadership competencies and evolution of roles. 46:40 - Prioritizing tasks and staying informed in a busy work environment. Key Takeaways -  In transforming business models, obtaining executive buy-in is crucial to mitigate disruptions across departments that may not align with the new direction. The evolution of partnership leadership roles now includes a broader spectrum of competencies, including influence, relationship building, and staying abreast of emerging market trends and tools. Effective strategies were discussed for achieving work-life balance by leveraging employer support, such as flexible time off and a culture of trust in employees. In modernizing channel models, speakers highlighted the effectiveness of combining traditional, transformational, and blue ocean strategies to adapt to evolving market conditions. Insightful techniques were shared for executives to prioritize tasks, focusing on areas such as revenue growth, program development, and team support. Key Quotes- “It's crucial to prioritize collaboration with finance teams and ensure they're well-informed. Finance teams can benefit from a deeper understanding of our business operations. Taking an operational approach and working closely with them to clarify processes is essential for seamless workflow. This clarity helps prevent future support challenges and enhances overall efficiency."  - Asher Mathew "Regarding ISVs, I see the value in integrating with their ecosystems. Take Trend Micro, for instance. We offer a unified platform with various modules and services. For customers using platforms that lack certain security aspects, our integrations with ISVs provide seamless extensions rather than requiring a complete overhaul. This approach avoids the complexity of enabling multiple products and ensures efficient integration that simply works." - Louise McEvoy

    51 min
  4. JUN 15

    Ep 26 | Leading Through Change

    On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, we discuss leadership with Rachel Skaff, Managing Director of North America Partner Sales at AWS. At AWS, she oversees the channel sales organization for North America, focused on accelerating growth through partners.  Joined by hosts Asher and Kelly, Rachel shares insights from her diverse career path and transforming AWS's partner model. The conversation explores challenges of work-life balance, especially for female executives, and offers advice for navigating careers amidst disruption. Emphasizing lifelong learning and adaptability, this episode provides valuable perspectives for partnership and sales professionals navigating organizational transformation. Chapters -  00:00 - Partnerships and leadership with Amazon Web Services executive 05:31 - Parenting, leadership, and experience 10:52 - Work-life balance, leadership, and prioritizing people over processes 19:06 - Modern partnership leadership and sales strategies 25:12 - Leadership, decision-making, and adapting to change 32:55 - Leadership, reinvention, and presence in a rapidly changing environment 38:01 - Transforming organizations and leading sales initiatives 44:33 - Customer centricity and leadership principles for executives 51:07 - Partner roles and carrying quotas in business Key Takeaways -  Leaders need to continuously reinvent themselves and be open to change as industries evolve rapidly with new technologies. It's important to spend significant time externally with customers and partners to understand their needs and challenges. Balancing work and personal life, especially parenting, is very challenging but important to discuss openly. Carrying quotas or incentives in some form is important for partner roles to focus on generating business value. Surrounding oneself with diverse networks of peers and mentors is crucial for guidance in transforming organizations. Key Quotes -  "If you wake up every day and it's not a - Hell yeah!. Go find something else!” - Rachel Skaff

    55 min
  5. JUN 13

    Ep 25 | Driving Partnership Success from the C-Suite

    In this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Mekaela Davis, Chief Partner Officer at Trintech.  With experience at both Big 4 consulting firms and enterprise software companies, Mekaela shares her unconventional journey to becoming a CPO. She discusses the diverse skills required and the importance of executive-level accountability. Mekaela also offers insights into building a partner-first culture, optimizing ISV partnerships, and translating qualitative partnership impacts into compelling narratives. Mekaela is also recognized within the VISTA Equity portfolio as a trailblazer in the CPO role, responsible for scaling partnerships across her organization. Chapters -  00:00 - Partnerships and alliances in scaling companies 04:40 - Career paths, including engineering, surgery, and partner operations 08:39 - Path to Chief Partnership Officer role 13:54 - Partnerships and integrations between tech companies 20:15 - Partner management challenges and solutions 26:52 - Partnerships, strategy, and becoming a Chief Partner Officer 31:00 - Partnerships, alliances, and 360-degree relationships in professional services 34:58 - Career progression and leadership role evolution 39:52 - Changes in role from SVP to CPO, including new responsibilities and expectations 44:37 - Leadership roles in partner programs, challenges faced by SVPs, and benefits of becoming a Chief Partner Officer 48:37 - Importance of CEO buy-in for partnership success 52:33 - Partner management and culture with a CEO and their team Key Takeaways -  Having a dedicated Chief Partner Officer (CPO) role is crucial for leading partnerships at an executive level and ensuring proper focus, allocation of resources, and accountability. To be effective in the role of CPO, one needs diverse experiences encompassing roles in accounting, marketing, business development, and other areas. It's essential to cultivate a partner-friendly culture within the organization, starting from the ground up with a strong commitment from the CEO and consistent reinforcement. In addition to quantitative metrics, it's important to convey qualitative narratives about partnerships to boards and stakeholders, highlighting their significance beyond just key performance indicators (KPIs). Optimizing partnerships between technology companies holds strategic importance in enhancing customer experiences and overall outcomes. Key Quotes- “Companies that get funded, say, here's a use case, and go sell it to one department, meaning one person. Then they go find other departments or other people in the same company and sell the same use case. So that's one way to build your business. The other way to build your business is you find a persona, and then you do everything for that person and make them look like a hero.” - Asher Mathew "Building a truly partner-first culture requires constant reinforcement from the top down. As CPO, I work closely with our CEO to ensure partners are part of every communication, from company-wide emails to press interviews. It's about repetition so that partner-focus becomes second nature for our entire organization." - Mekaela Davis "As someone who has worked at both startups and larger enterprises, I've seen it work both ways depending on the situation. At a young startup, focusing intensely on a niche persona is often the best strategy to quickly gain traction. But for a more established company, expanding into new use cases once the core product is established can also drive significant growth. It really comes down to understanding your unique market and customers at each stage of the business." - Kelly Sarabyn

    59 min
  6. MAY 7

    Ep 24 | From Startups to Scaleups: Insights from a partnership pioneer

    On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Kelly and Asher are joined by Bob Rosin, a seasoned professional with a diverse career spanning the B2B industry, startups, and leadership roles at companies like Sony, LinkedIn, and Stripe. Rosin shares insights into strategic partnerships, emphasizing the importance of understanding partners' goals and creating mutual value. He highlights LinkedIn's mission-driven approach and discusses the evolving Chief Business Officer role in driving holistic business development. The conversation covers various partnership types for startups and career paths in partnerships, offering key takeaways on strategic pursuit, interdepartmental collaboration, and the evolving role of partnership leaders in driving growth. Chapters: 00:00 - Partnerships and business development in various industries. 07:46 - Business development and partnerships. 11:43 - Partnerships for product development and distribution 18:57 - Partnership strategies for startups, including marketing, distribution, and enablement. 24:33 - Importance of business development and partner management in organizations. 29:00 - Partnerships, product understanding, and user experience at LinkedIn. 33:41 - LinkedIn's API program and data protection. 38:36 - Data collection, scraping, and partnerships in the tech industry. 41:59 - Career paths in partnerships and business development. 47:30 - Business development roles and reporting structures in tech companies. 52:54 - Chief Business Officer roles and responsibilities. 57:16 - Partnerships and business growth strategies for Chief Business Officers and partnership leaders. Key Takeaways: 1. Partnerships should be pursued strategically based on what is best for the business, not just for the sake of doing deals. 2. Understanding the technical and business goals of potential partners is key to developing mutually beneficial relationships. 3. Close collaboration between partnerships/business development and product/engineering teams leads to innovative solutions that create value for customers. 4. Networking and relationships are critical for startups to connect with larger organizations and make opportunities happen. 5. As partnerships evolve, leaders need to focus on growing the business holistically through multiple levers like buy/build/partner, not just distribution. Key Quotes: "Your goal, whether your partnerships, or your chief business officer is to develop the business." - Bob Rosin "Partnerships are a means to an end of building the business. It's not about doing partnerships, right. Partnerships is a means to an end. And, but the goal is to how do you create new businesses? Have you built a business? How do you have impact on your end users, that makes it a better product, right, that delivers better experiences for your customers." - Bob Rosin "The closer that you can be to product and to the technology and to the actual user experience, then the better results you're going to have because ultimately the kind of the, the ground truth, like where it happens is the end user, whether it's a business user or a consumer and the experience that they're having." - Bob Rosin

    1h 3m
  7. MAR 19

    Ep 23 | Beyond Channels: A Holistic Approach to Partnering Across the Value Chain

    On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Kelly and Asher chat with Greg Sarafin about his extensive career journey at IBM and EY. Greg highlights the significance of grasping a company's business model, and distinguishing between scarcity and abundance mindsets. He emphasizes the success potential of companies embracing abundance by partnering to deliver client outcomes effectively. The conversation also covers topics such as the impact of cloud technology on collaboration, prioritizing outcomes over individual partnerships, and the necessity for quantifying strategic value in partner leadership. Greg's insights from transforming EY's partner program advocating for an abundance mindset, offering valuable perspectives on measuring partnership ROI and optimizing enterprise-level partner functions. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 01:09 - Career journey and partnership building in the consulting industry 09:00 - CPO role and business model in the context of partnering and abundance economy 13:41 - Partnering and abundance mindset in business  19:18 - Business models, collaboration, and capital strategies  23:46 - Partnering strategies in business 28:40 - Data monetization and cleanup in the decade ahead 33:29 - Partnering function value creation and C-suite engagement  38:02 - Partner ecosystems and outcomes 45:12 - Partner relationships and cost optimization  51:11 - Partnering with audit firms and HR in tech companies Key Takeaways  Companies should adopt either a mindset of abundance allowing them to create more value through partnering. Cloud reduces barriers to effective partnering by lowering the cost of interoperability between companies. Partner leaders should focus on outcomes rather than individual partnerships, and view partnering holistically across the value chain. Tracking metrics like win rate and cost of sales is important to quantitatively prove the value of strategic partnerships. Adopting an abundance mindset where companies combine assets is key for the partner function and company success in today's business environment. Key quotes: "It doesn't matter what I think, the market trends are remarkably consistent. Abundance mindset outside in value orchestration, business models, are increasingly going to outperform those that are not." - Greg Sarafin

    1h 1m
  8. MAR 15

    Ep 22 | The Future of Partnerships: A Conversation with Microsoft's Chief Partner Officer

    On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, we dive into the world of partnerships with Nicole Dezen, the Chief Partner Officer at Microsoft. In this insightful conversation, hosts Asher and Kelly sit down with Nicole to explore her extensive career in partnerships, the intricate partner organization structure at Microsoft, and her invaluable perspectives on crucial topics shaping the future of the partner ecosystem. Listen in, as Nicole and the hosts engage in a thought-provoking debate on various aspects of partnership management. This conversation provides a unique glimpse into one of the largest and most mature partner ecosystems, offering listeners actionable insights drawn from Nicole's wealth of industry experience. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction 01:15 - Partner business at Microsoft 06:35 - Partner organization design and dotted line reporting. 12:01 - Partner ecosystems and multi-partner deals 17:47 - Partner ecosystem, data, and community engagement. 23:48 - Partner ecosystems and growth strategies in tech industry 31:02 - Partner collaboration and differentiation strategies. 36:23 - Partner leadership roles and priorities in business 42:34 - Partner management and future of role 46:59 - Partner management incentives and motivation. Key Takeaways Partnerships are critical for companies to achieve scale, reach, differentiation, and customer success in today's technology industry. It's important for partner leaders to tell the partner story internally to gain alignment and understanding of the unique role partners play.  Measuring and monitoring partner performance is key to ensuring alignment with company strategy and priorities. Partner managers should have a sales mindset and focus on developing partners to deliver differentiated solutions for customers. Building trust and community among partners is important, as is constantly evolving partnerships to address changing market needs. Key Quotes: "Collaboration requires understanding each other's corporate objectives and meeting in the middle, while also respecting each company's autonomy." - Asher Mathew "I think it's so important for all of us to be the voice of our partners for our companies. And we have a really important role to play, regardless of the company's maturity on the partner business or their stance on the partner business, like helping colleagues and leaders understand what a partner or partners could do for the achievement of growth, achievement of the company strategy, delivery of the company's mission." - Nicole Dezen

    54 min

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
4 Ratings

About

Digital transformation has changed the way businesses buy. But the direct marketing and sales playbooks that are decades old are still in use. On Unlearn, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn talk to leaders who are unlearning old motions and innovating in how they Go-To-Market. We take a deep dive into community, partnerships and ecosystems, dark social, customer centricity, market incentives, and new tactics none of us have heard of yet but are already working.

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