UpLevel View

Stephanie Corey
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Amidst the innovation renaissance in Legal Operations, it's natural to feel overwhelmed. Luckily, the UpLevel View podcast has got you covered! Join UpLevel Ops experts each month for exclusive interviews and unique insights from those who have been there and done that in Legal Ops. We'll be sharing guidance on upping your game as an effective corporate legal leader, straight talk about legal technology, and actionable ways to break out of your comfort zone and take your career to the Next Level. Don't miss a thing - subscribe to the UpLevel View podcast and improve your legal leadership vision today!

  1. 46m ago

    The Leadership Side of Legal Operations

    Summary Leadership looks very different when an entire profession is evolving. Oyango Snell, CEO of CLOC, joins Stephanie Corey to trace how Legal Ops has moved from fighting for recognition to owning strategic decisions inside the enterprise. They talk through why mismatched expectations, and job descriptions written for a COO but budgeted for a paralegal, still trip up departments trying to build the function right. The conversation turns to AI, where Oyango argues the technology only exposes problems that were already there if a department lacks governance and a clear read on its own data. He closes with a challenge to the field itself: professionals have to invest in their own development, not just wait for a title or a GC to hand them the mandate, and maybe it's time to ask whether "Legal Ops" is even still the right name for what this work has become. Key Takeaways Legal Ops has moved past its identity crisis. The industry spent years arguing for a seat at the table. Now, per Oyango, people are stepping into decision-making roles and simply owning that this is their business, not something "other." A great job description doesn't fix a broken framework. Hiring one person to be a five-page miracle worker on a paralegal budget sets Legal Ops up to fail, and then the framework gets blamed on the discipline. One hire is never the whole fix. Legal Ops success depends on budget, executive support, and being woven into the organization's strategic goals, the same way a new CEO needs a strong team underneath them. AI adoption starts with data governance, not tools. Oyango's advice: understand the business problem first. Buying a CLM or an AI tool because it's trendy, without knowing what you're solving for, is how organizations waste money and stall out. The profession still runs on peer-to-peer sharing. From twelve people comparing notes in a conference room to a global community today, the willingness to share templates and hard-won lessons is what Oyango says makes Legal Ops different from other professions. Links and Resources CLOC (Corporate Legal Operations Consortium): cloc.org UpLevel Ops: uplevelops.com Ken Callander's Above the Law article, "Why You Should Choose Legal Ops Tools You Can Build On" Keywords Legal Ops leadership, CLOC, Corporate Legal Operations Consortium, legal ops evolution, legal ops hiring, legal ops job description, legal ops resourcing, AI strategy legal, legal ops AI adoption, legal engineering, legal ops community, legal ops mentorship, GC decision making, CLO legal ops, legal ops title, legal ops budget, legal ops governance, in-house legal innovation, legal ops professional development, CLOC Global Institute Episode Highlights [00:01:27 - 00:02:33] Oyango describes the shift from clamoring for a seat at the table to owning it [00:04:33 - 00:05:44] Stephanie names the mismatch between what GCs think Legal Ops is and what it requires [00:06:20 - 00:07:17] Oyango on how efficiency alone can work a Legal Ops professional out of a job [00:09:55 - 00:10:45] Stephanie and Oyango compare notes on the wide range of Legal Ops salaries [00:11:37 - 00:12:37] Oyango: hiring one person isn't a savior if the framework isn't set up to support them [00:15:04 - 00:15:54] The emergence of new titles like "legal engineering" as a bridge to IT [00:17:10 - 00:17:58] Stephanie shares Susan Hackett's framing: one great Legal Ops hire vs. ten lawyers [00:20:53 - 00:22:34] Oyango on CLOC's growth strategy: strategic partnerships over competition [00:26:20 - 00:27:24] Oyango: AI is not the solution to all your problems, understand the business case first [00:31:40 - 00:32:32] Oyango raises the question of whether "Legal Operations" is still the right term for the field

    35 min

  2. Apr 15

    The New Economics of Legal Work

    Episode Summary In this episode of The Uplevel View Podcast, Stephanie Corey and Brandi Pack sit down with Ryan Walker, CEO and co-founder of General Legal, to explore how AI is transforming the legal industry. Ryan shares his journey from mathematics and early NLP work to building some of the first AI-powered legal tools at Casetext. The conversation dives into a persistent issue: despite massive advancements in AI, legal services remain expensive, inefficient, and largely unchanged for clients. General Legal is tackling this problem head-on with a new model—combining AI-native workflows, embedded legal services, and flat-fee pricing. The result: faster turnaround times, lower costs, and a more integrated client experience. The episode also explores the limitations of current AI models, the importance of human lawyers in the loop, and the emerging power of agent-based systems that can unlock insights from unstructured legal data without requiring heavy infrastructure like traditional CLMs. Ultimately, this episode paints a compelling picture of a future where legal services are more accessible, efficient, and aligned with client needs. Links & Resources General Legal - General Legal | AI native law firm for growing companies UpLevel Ops - Home Page Keywords Legal AI legal tech AI in law billable hour disruption flat fee legal services contract review AI legal operations CLM alternatives legal automation AI agents legal innovation access to justice in-house counsel legal data analytics NLP law firms future of legal services Episode Highlights 00:00–01:00 – Introduction to Ryan Walker and his background in AI and legal tech 01:00–02:30 – How Ryan entered legal tech and why the space fascinated him 02:30–04:20 – The persistent adoption problem in legal technology 04:20–06:05 – Why AI hasn't yet changed the client experience in legal services 06:05–07:30 – Launching General Legal and early traction (0 to 100+ clients) 07:30–09:00 – Embedding lawyers into client workflows (Slack, CLMs) 09:00–10:30 – The access-to-justice gap and unaffordable legal services 10:30–12:10 – The inefficiencies of the billable hour model 12:10–14:00 – AI limitations: high issue detection, low contextual judgment 14:00–16:00 – Why human lawyers are still essential in AI workflows 16:00–18:00 – Flat-fee model: $500 per contract and full lifecycle coverage 18:00–20:30 – Building client context through past contracts and interactions 20:30–23:30 – AI agents and the future of legal data analysis 23:30–26:00 – Replacing heavy CLMs with flexible AI-driven systems 26:00–End – The future: freeing lawyers from rote work to focus on high-value tasks

    42 min

  3. Mar 31

    Leading Legal in a Product-Led Company

    Summary In this episode of Uplevel View, Stephanie Corey sits down with Betsy Cantrell, VP of Legal at HighLevel, to explore how legal teams must evolve in fast-moving, product-led organizations. Betsy shares her journey from a highly structured corporate legal environment at Intel to building a scrappy, agile legal function from scratch in a startup. The conversation dives into how legal teams can move from being perceived as blockers to becoming strategic partners embedded within product development. Key themes include integrating legal into product workflows, hiring adaptable talent, leveraging legal operations, and—most critically—embracing AI as a core driver of efficiency, scalability, and relevance. Betsy emphasizes that the biggest risk today isn't using AI imperfectly—it's not using it at all. This episode is a must-listen for legal leaders looking to modernize their function, scale effectively, and stay ahead in an AI-driven world. Links & Resources UpLevel Ops: http://UplevelOps.com Above The Law: http://AbovetheLaw.com Keywords Legal Operations, Product-Led Companies, In-House Counsel, AI in Legal, Legal Tech, Startup Legal, Compliance, Privacy Law, Workflow Automation, Legal Strategy, General Counsel, Legal Innovation, AI Adoption, Corporate Law, Legal Leadership 🎧 Episode Highlights (with timestamps) 00:00–00:33 – Why legal involvement often comes too late in product-led companies 01:13–01:49 – Betsy's journey: from Intel to building a startup legal team from scratch 02:18–03:05 – The cultural shift: from legal authority to proving value 03:05–04:08 – Why legal must understand product and user experience 05:33–06:31 – Hiring for startups: curiosity over specialization 06:53–07:48 – Learning new legal domains (like privacy) on the fly 08:06–08:47 – Why the first hire was legal ops—not a lawyer 11:01–11:27 – The power of exposure and learning across domains 12:21–13:05 – Using competitors and AI as benchmarks for decision-making 15:13–16:11 – Embedding legal into product workflows without friction 16:55–17:34 – Using AI agents to flag legal risks automatically 20:29–20:45 – Why complex intake forms fail 21:37–22:28 – AI agents replacing repetitive legal review work 23:30–24:13 – The real risk: not adopting AI fast enough 27:01–27:43 – AI as a headcount multiplier for legal teams

    48 min

  4. Feb 10

    The New Standard for Legal Leadership

    Episode Summary How does Legal move from cost center to growth engine as expectations rise? Ron Bell, Chief Legal and Administrative Officer at Collective Health, joins Steph Corey to discuss the new standard for legal leadership and what it really takes for Legal to prove value, earn trust, and perform when the margin for error is small, and expectations keep going up. Listen to the UpLevel View and improve your legal leadership vision today!   Links & Resources Collective Health: collectivehealth.com Ron Bell: linkedin.com/in/ronsbell/ UpLevel Ops: http://UplevelOps.com Above The Law: http://AbovetheLaw.com   Keywords Legal leadership Cost center to growth engine Legal operations AI in legal Strategic GC Risk management Value storytelling Legal metrics Adaptability Business-first legal Above the Law  Episode Highlights  00:00–02:15 - The rising bar for legal leadership and shrinking margin for error 02:15–03:38 - Why Legal is still treated like a cost center—and how that narrative formed 03:38–04:31 - Reframing Legal from ballast to motor 04:31–05:30 - Legal judgment vs. Legal's true job 05:30–06:39 - Outsource, automate, or stop doing the work 06:39–08:00 - Maintenance, protection, and aspirational legal work 08:00–09:31 - How experienced lawyers learn to focus on what actually matters 09:31–10:26 - AI's role in automating low-value legal work 10:26–12:23 - Why GCs get stuck in the weeds—and how to get out 12:23–13:44 - Stakeholder overload and expectation-setting 13:44–15:20 - Telling the right value story to earn respect and resources 15:20–17:02 - Being brought in early vs. "raining on the parade" 17:02–18:57 - Metrics that matter—and metrics that mislead 18:57–21:19 - Legal ops as strategic partner, not support function 21:19–25:49 - Change management and adoption challenges 25:49–31:49 - AI's impact on legal teams, hiring, and structure 31:49–34:12 - Skills future legal leaders must build 34:12–37:03 - Legal's opportunity to shape trust in unstable times 37:03–40:46 - Adaptability as the ultimate career advantage

    42 min

  5. Jan 14

    The End of the Billable Hour: AI, Value, and the New Economics of Expertise

    Summary In the first episode of 2026 for the UpLevel View podcast, Stephanie Corey and Ken Callander sit down with Rita Gunther McGrath, Columbia Business School professor and Wall Street Journal columnist, to talk about how AI is forcing professional services to price outcomes instead of hours. From law firms to in-house legal teams, the rules of value are being rewritten. The question is: who's ready to lead the change? Listen to the UpLevel View and improve your legal leadership vision today!   Episode Highlights 00:00:18 - Introducing Rita Gunther McGrath. 00:02:23 - Definition of strategic inflection points. 00:03:21 - Legal industry disruption with AI. 00:06:47 - Shift from billable hours to value. 00:12:26 - The economic model and compensation structure challenges. 00:23:39 - Historical change movements as a model for legal transformation. 00:32:30 - Training and learning in the AI age. 00:39:36 - The concept of permissionless organizations. 00:40:15 - "Two percent less stupid" book title.   Episode resources: http://UpLevelOps.com Brainwave Newsletter by UpLevel Ops: http://UpLevelOps.com/Brainwave Thought Sparks Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack: https://thoughtsparks.substack.com Learn more about Professor McGrath at: http://RitaMcGrath.com   Keywords UpLevel View   Stephanie Corey   Ken Callander   Rita Gunther McGrath   strategy   innovation   Columbia Business School   Wall Street Journal   Thinkers 50   The End of Competitive Advantage   Seeing Around Corners   AI   inflection points   disruption   value-based pricing   legal industry   billable hours   professional services   general counsel   law firms   legal operations   Uber   Airbnb   marijuana legalization   economic model   law firm culture   consulting firms   transformation   change management   in-house teams   apprenticeships   legal training   skill development   future partners   media industry   Hollywood   entertainment industry   strategy   scarcity   permissionless organizations   two percent less stupid

    42 min

  6. 11/10/2025

    AI Adoption That Actually Works: How Hanna House Went from Pilot to Playbook

    What happens when a nonprofit embraces AI not for the hype, but for the help? In the latest episode of the UpLevel View podcast, Brandi Pack and Ken Callander sit down with Cristal Cardenas Sanchez, Director, Research & Evaluation, Hanna Center, and Marissa La Brecque, VP of Research and Training, from Hanna Center, to talk about how their grassroots AI pilot turned into a full 2026 roadmap. Hear how they're using GenAI to streamline operations, spark new ideas, and even open the door to a broader range of grant opportunities, without losing sight of their mission.   Highlights Streamlining data collection at Hanna Center. Hanna Center's mission and services overview. Significant data entry challenges faced early on. Custom AI tools drastically reduce manual data entry. Adoption process and early AI successes. Building confidence and addressing privacy concerns. Efficient internal adoption fuels enthusiasm. Insights into using AI for organizational transformation. Impressive ROI from AI tool implementation. Planning and prioritizing AI use cases for next year. Enhancing grant opportunities with AI tools. Recommended starting points for non-profits using AI. Creative applications of AI across departments. Hanna Center's evolving use of AI and future plans.   Episode Resources UpLevel Ops Master Chef GPT: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-oVwrdPo0I-master-chef  UpLevel Ops Wanderlust GPT: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-eDSeep6qT-wanderlust-guide  Thought Leadership from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/thoughtleadership/  LINK (Legal Innovators Network): http://Linkforlegal.com  Connect with Stephanie Corey https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephcorey-ulo  https://fr.linkedin.com/company/uplevel-ops  https://uplevelops.com/  https://uplevelops.com/legal-operations-consulting/ https://uplevelops.com/thoughtleadership/ https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/ GAI Management Services from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/  https://www.intel.la/content/www/xl/es/homepage.html GAI Management Solutions from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/

    32 min

  7. 10/24/2025

    The Smart Start to Legal AI: Inside Enstar's Legal Ops Revolution with Peter Calleo and Nick Giuliano

    What does practical AI success look like in legal terms? Peter Calleo and Nick Giuliano from Enstar Group join UpLevel Ops CEO, Stephanie Corey, and UpLevel's Director of Innovation, Brandi Pack, on the UpLevel View podcast. They'll share how UpLevel Ops and the Enstar team led a GenAI program that made Legal faster, smarter, and more connected to the business. No hype, just real-world insight. Listen to the UpLevel View and improve your legal leadership vision today!   Highlights Transitioning from Microsoft Co-Pilot to ChatGPT The role of AI in legal ops pre-pandemic Simplifying legal tasks with AI tools Board minutes drafting revolutionized by GPT-5 Elements of a successful AI pilot program Rapidly expanding use cases for custom GPTs Legal tech transformation and the end of over-engineering The importance of generative AI governance Building a culture of innovation through AI adoption Measuring AI pilot program success with low cost, high reward Executive sponsorship critical to AI adoption success   Episode Resources UpLevel Ops Master Chef GPT: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-oVwrdPo0I-master-chef  UpLevel Ops Wanderlust GPT: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-eDSeep6qT-wanderlust-guide  Thought Leadership from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/thoughtleadership/  LINK (Legal Innovators Network): http://Linkforlegal.com  Connect with Stephanie Corey https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephcorey-ulo  https://fr.linkedin.com/company/uplevel-ops  https://uplevelops.com/  https://uplevelops.com/legal-operations-consulting/ https://uplevelops.com/thoughtleadership/ https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/ GAI Management Services from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/  https://www.intel.la/content/www/xl/es/homepage.html  GAI Management Solutions from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/

    42 min

  8. 09/05/2025

    From Firefights to Fixed Fees: Strategic Pricing in High-Stakes Legal Work with Katie Armistead

    Litigation: the last stronghold of hourly billing. On the UpLevel View, Steph Corey and Ken Callander talk with Grubhub's Katie Armistead about how legal teams are bringing order to the chaos with phase-based fees, risk-sharing, and value-driven pricing. The era of "We'll see what the invoice says" is over. Take your Legal Leadership Vision to the Next Level: Subscribe to the UpLevel View today.   Guest Additional Info Our guest today is Katie Armistead, Head of Legal at GrubHub. She began her career at Jones Day and holds a BA in Economics from Johns Hopkins University and a JD from Columbia Law School.   Highlights Challenges of Unpredictable Litigation Transition from Hourly to Value-Based Pricing The Catalyst: A Costly Lawsuit Experience Success Payments and Outcome Alignment The Importance of Data and Piloting New Models Overcoming Resistance to Change Impact of AI on Legal Services The Effectiveness of Value-Based Pricing Over Hourly Models Improvements in Finance Team Relations and Predictability Advice for Legal Leaders on Pricing Strategies   Episode Resources UpLevel Ops Master Chef GPT: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-oVwrdPo0I-master-chef  UpLevel Ops Wanderlust GPT: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-eDSeep6qT-wanderlust-guide  Thought Leadership from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/thoughtleadership/  LINK (Legal Innovators Network): http://Linkforlegal.com  Connect with Stephanie Corey https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephcorey-ulo  https://fr.linkedin.com/company/uplevel-ops  https://uplevelops.com/  https://uplevelops.com/legal-operations-consulting/ https://uplevelops.com/thoughtleadership/ https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/ GAI Management Services from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/  https://www.intel.la/content/www/xl/es/homepage.html  GAI Management Solutions from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/services/gai-management/  April Miller Boise on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/april-miller-boise-8913404/  Stephanie Corey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephcorey-ulo/  Ken Callander's bio: https://uplevelops.com/our_team/ken-callander/ Ken's LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kencallander/ UpLevel Ops: http://uplevelops.com/ Value Strategies from UpLevel Ops: https://uplevelops.com/valuestrategies/

    30 min
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About

Amidst the innovation renaissance in Legal Operations, it's natural to feel overwhelmed. Luckily, the UpLevel View podcast has got you covered! Join UpLevel Ops experts each month for exclusive interviews and unique insights from those who have been there and done that in Legal Ops. We'll be sharing guidance on upping your game as an effective corporate legal leader, straight talk about legal technology, and actionable ways to break out of your comfort zone and take your career to the Next Level. Don't miss a thing - subscribe to the UpLevel View podcast and improve your legal leadership vision today!

Information

  • Creator
    Stephanie Corey
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    32
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2023
  • Show Website
    UpLevel View