A wide-ranging conversation with Natalie Backman—a deeply dedicated student and teacher whose practice has been shaped through years of sincere inquiry. Together, we explore a dimension of yoga often overlooked in modern practice: the contemplative work that refines perception, reshapes how we live, and determines whether the fruits of practice truly extend into daily life. Our focus is Yoga Sutra 1.33, a teaching that serves as essential guardrails for navigating both spiritual practice and the complexities of life. In this sutra, Patanjali names four potent mental contaminants—forces that profoundly influence our relationships, regulate (or dysregulate) our nervous systems, and directly affect the depth and stability of meditation itself. The teaching offers something both timeless and urgently practical: a way of meeting a world marked by division, stress, anger, and “othering,” while simultaneously reclaiming our shared humanity. In this episode, we explore: Why Yoga Sutra 1.33 may be more relevant now than ever, as culture increasingly rewards polarization and reactivity. The four mental contaminants Patanjali identifies: animosity, cruelty (often expressed as withheld compassion), envy or jealousy, and self-righteous judgment How these forces don’t just fracture relationships—they directly limit clarity, depth, and freedom on the spiritual path The antidotes Patanjali prescribes—friendliness, compassion, joy for the virtuous, and non-judgment toward those we deem non-virtuous—and why these are not forms of naïve or superficial “positive thinking” The subtle trap of spiritual bypassing: how overlaying yogic attitudes can suppress conflict rather than transform it A grounded, step-by-step path of inner work: recognizing the contaminant, understanding its cost, tracing it to its source, and consciously reshaping our relationship to it through practice How modern neuroscience supports this ancient map—exploring tribal wiring, dopamine-driven outrage, and why the brain is not naturally oriented toward freedom Why compassion must begin with self-inclusion: learning to meet and care for the unloved parts of ourselves, which in turn reshapes how we meet others How to remain fully engaged in the world without being consumed by it—acting from conscience and clarity rather than animosity and burnout A more honest measure of practice: not the absence of emotion, but a wiser, freer relationship to emotion when it inevitably arises If you’ve ever wondered why spiritual practice doesn’t always translate into how people actually treat one another—or why even sincere practitioners can remain caught in judgment, reactivity, and subtle forms of division—this conversation is an invitation back to the heart of yoga: clarity of perception, maturity of mind, and the lived embodiment of wisdom. With warmth, Rod & Natalie
