What Do You Mean By That?

Sara and Misasha

Join multi-ethnic co-hosts Sara + Misasha - two wickedly smart, heart-led, long-distance best friends - as they help folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us. Whether it's about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, their community consists of people who want to be better humans, to benefit all of us. We won't let the fire hose of information overwhelm us. Whether you're a seasoned expert or new to the work, you'll find yourself listening, learning, and feeling inspired to do something new after each episode. If you can never get enough knowledge but also don't want to feel overwhelmed… Congratulations, you've found your people. Follow to join a community of curious folks who constantly wonder: what do you mean by that?

  1. 29: The Story They Don't Want You To Know: The REAL Native American Experience In America, with Crystal Echo Hawk

    3d ago

    29: The Story They Don't Want You To Know: The REAL Native American Experience In America, with Crystal Echo Hawk

    Crystal Echo Hawk's daughter gets asked if she still lives in a teepee. And Crystal's response isn't rage - it's something more unsettling.  She gets it.  Because 87% of American schools stop teaching about Native peoples after 1900, and 78% of Americans know very little about Native people. So that question, as painful as it is, makes a terrible kind of sense. The last data point most Americans have on Native people is somewhere around third grade. And then nothing. Crystal Echo Hawk is a citizen of the Pawnee Nation of Oklahoma, the former executive director of IllumiNative, a national, native-led, non-profit organization born out of the "Reclaiming Native Truth Project", a research project from 2016-2018, and was the largest public opinion research project ever conducted about native people. She is one of the most important voices in the country on what it actually means to be Native American in America today - not in a history book, not in a Halloween costume aisle, not doing the horrifying tomahawk chop in a stadium. This is a conversation you won't want to miss.  "There is no stupid question, as long as it's asked with respect." Crystal What to listen for:  Invisibility and erasure of the Native American culture creates bias and fuels racism. 27 states do not mention Native Americans in their curriculum. Representation in TV and film is between 0% and 0.04% of all representation. Within that sliver, the Native American is often shown in a stereotypical fashion. i.e., magical, mystical Indian, drunks, or savages. One study found that when you type the words "Native American" in a search engine, 95% of those images that come up are pre-1900, and are almost always men. YET, there are 573 independent, sovereign nations within this country. Each nation has its own language, its own customs and cultures, and systems of government and elected officials. "Native American", "American Indian", and "Native Peoples" are all terms that are preferred over the word "Indian". Yep, we discuss Christopher Columbus and Thanksgiving and Halloween and the offensive usage of stereotypes in sports, from the Native American perspective. Vote with your dollars: support Native American-owned businesses. There are more than 5 million Native Americans in the US. Take a moment to search and learn about who the traditional Native Peoples in your area were. Recommended Companion Podcast Halloween and Cultural Appropriation  About Crystal Echo Hawk Crystal is the founder and President of Indigenous House, powered by Honey Badger Partners. Crystal also founded IllumiNative in 2018 as an outgrowth of the Reclaiming Native Truth (RNT) project, the largest public opinion research and strategy-setting initiative ever conducted by and for Native peoples. Crystal designed and co-led the RNT project as CEO of Echo Hawk Consulting (EHC). Through EHC, Crystal served as a leader of tribal and philanthropic teams that raised and directed the reinvestment of $37 million in Native communities. Crystal previously served as the first Executive Director of the Notah Begay III Foundation and led program design and investment of $9.7 million in Native obesity/diabetes prevention and youth leadership.

    42 min
  2. 28: Who Gets to Be American? Japanese Internment, Reparations, and the Fight for Constitutional Rights with John Tateishi

    Jun 16

    28: Who Gets to Be American? Japanese Internment, Reparations, and the Fight for Constitutional Rights with John Tateishi

    Imagine you're six years old. You look out past a barbed wire fence at a highway in the desert, and every single car that passes by is driven by someone white. The teachers who come to your school? White. The guards in the towers above you, also white. And you think to yourself: is this America? Or is America out there?  That child was John Tateishi. He was almost three years old when the U.S. government forced his entire family - along with 120,000 other Japanese Americans - from their homes and into concentration camps on American soil. His family ended up at Manzanar. And when the war ended, they were handed $25 and told to find their way home. What John did with that childhood - with that rage, that clarity, that love of country despite everything this country did to him - is an important story in American history, and honestly one that many adults may not have even learned in their history classes growing up.  He went on to lead the Japanese American redress campaign, helping secure a formal government apology and reparations. He's the author of Redress: The Inside Story of the Successful Campaign for Japanese American Reparations. He shares a lot about what that fight means today - for the Black reparations movement, for anti-Asian hate, and for the question that sits at the center of all of it: Who gets to be American?  As we move towards a celebration of America's birthday, that question sits front and center for many of us, as we're actively being told that we're not American. These stories show us not only how we reject that narrow view, but also how to fight for ourselves and one another while loving our communities, families, and country at the same time. What to listen for: John's personal experience as a young person incarcerated at Manzanar - and what it was like returning to society The makeup of Los Angeles in the post-war period - and how different communities banded together What John sees as the differences between the successful campaign he helped lead for Japanese American reparations and the hurdles facing Black Americans, starting with HR40. About John Tateishi: Incarcerated as a child in one of America's WWII concentration camps, John Tateishi carried that memory with him when he launched the Japanese American reparations campaign in 1978. He directed the public affairs and legislative strategies of the campaign until 1986, two years before the campaign ultimately culminated with the signing of the Civil Liberties Act.  Ten years later, he led the JACL's challenge against the Bush administration's policies that targeted Arab and Muslim communities and undermined the civil liberties of all Americans. He is the author of Redress: The Inside Story of the Successful Campaign for Japanese American Reparations (2020).

    1h 14m
  3. 26: Still Not a Monolith: How We're Thinking About AANHPI Heritage Month This Year

    May 19

    26: Still Not a Monolith: How We're Thinking About AANHPI Heritage Month This Year

    What does it mean to be American? What does it mean to be Asian American — and why, in 2026, are so many of us still leading with worry? Today, in honor of AANHPI Heritage Month, we're diving into the TAAF STAATUS Index 2026 by unpacking some stats that are eye-opening, some that are infuriating, and some that are deeply familiar. We'll talk about how Asian Americans are seen - and how we see ourselves - from the food on our plates to the question of whether you even have to be born here to belong here. It's AANHPI Heritage Month, and we have some thoughts (unsurprising to all of our regular listeners, we're sure!). If this episode resonates with you, please share widely - and let us know what action step you decided to take after listening. What to listen for:  The latest data shows that Asian Americans in 2026 feel predominantly worried right now (compared to other groups who feel more "hopeful") - here's why we think that might be, and it may not be the why that's most common What does it mean to be American? Do you have to be born in the US? And why do so many folks of Asian descent feel you don't have to be born here to be American?  How Asian culture shows up in our homes.  Some ideas for what you can do this month: Watch an Asian film (made by Asians, featuring Asians), have some Asian food, research a significant moment in Asian American history, speak with your Asian friends to learn something new about their lives.

    23 min
  4. 25: From Almost High School Dropout to Stanford Law to Fighting for All Of Us: Using Legal Skills as a Force for Good, with Luke Liss

    May 5

    25: From Almost High School Dropout to Stanford Law to Fighting for All Of Us: Using Legal Skills as a Force for Good, with Luke Liss

    What if the thing holding back justice isn't lack of will — it's lack of access?  Today's guest is doing something about that after coming up from a really rough time in high school, a near-fatal car crash, a parent who believed in him endlessly, and ending up not only at Stanford Law but also with one of the most powerful mentors in the field of law. For those of you who - like Sara - have liked to tease lawyers for being miserable people with secret languages, this episode brings the absolute best in the field to rehabilitate that image, infuse us with hope and humanity, and remind us that, even if we're not lawyers, there is a LOT we can each do to make the world a better place.   What to listen for: Transformation is rarely linear — and patience is the secret ingredient. And a message for parents of struggling teens: believe in them relentlessly, even when they make it hard, because knowing someone is in your corner can be the difference that keeps a young person from going over the edge. Mentorship is a two-way street. Luke describes his decades-long relationship with trailblazing attorney Harry Bremond, who shaped him both professionally and personally — but he's clear that great mentorship requires great mentees. Showing up, being reliable, and genuinely investing in the relationship is what transforms a professional connection into a lasting legacy. You don't have to be a lawyer to fight for justice in your community. There is so much we can each do in our communities to create tangible change, even volunteering for a few hours. And mentally? Luke says it's important to be good to yourself and allow yourself and others grace. Go on and find the joy in life while we're living it!   About our guest: Luke Liss is the Pro Bono Partner of Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati. He manages the firm's global Community Impact program. Luke also actively leads multiple pro bono impact litigation and immigration teams.  Luke has also played a key leadership role in high-profile pro bono litigation, including a trial win on behalf of one of the largest classes of Medicare patients in history, a historic win on summary judgment against a former Colombian paramilitary war lord on behalf of family members of a murdered community activist, and the settlement of a civil rights lawsuit alleging constitutional violations in Louisiana. Luke remains active in the leadership of multiple ongoing impact litigation matters.

    34 min
  5. 24: Are White Men Smarter Than Everyone Else? With Steve Phillips

    Apr 21

    24: Are White Men Smarter Than Everyone Else? With Steve Phillips

    The choice before us in 2026 is similar to the choice before Americans in the latter half of the 19th century, and the way we're framing it today is this:  Which straight White male President's line of thinking do you want to get behind? Choice #1 is Abraham Lincoln, who not only signed the Emancipation Proclamation, but was a firm believer in human rights for all, or Choice #2, the President who followed him, Andrew Johnson, who was perhaps the biggest Confederate sympathizer that we've had as President (minus, perhaps, our current one)? In other words, the choice is between believing in equal rights for all of us, or believing in rights only for rich, landowning, straight White men. Ultimately, this was the question before us in America 150+ years ago. It's the same question we're facing today.  To unpack this, we're having a conversation with a political leader, lawyer, and author who thinks deeply, systematically, and convincingly to capture your attention with boldness and walk you through some great ways to take action. We hope you listen, share widely, and be bold in how you envision 2026. What to listen for:  The clear stat that White men make up 29% of the American population. Yet if you look at leadership positions across the board, they make up a disproportionately large share. Do we think White men are smarter than everyone else? Is that why this percentage is so much higher? Or, is there a more systemic thing going on?  There are only two ways to answer this question, according to Steve. "One is that there is, in fact, something wrong with the communities of color and women, or in that white men are therefore smarter, more talented, more driven, and more deserving of being in these positions… The other is that there's actually a preference being shown to white men….But we don't have the conversation. We don't ask the question, and that's what I'm trying to remedy." On his spicy book title: "Pointing out inequality should not be more controversial than perpetuating the actual inequality."  Why Steve thinks the Democratic Party is bad at math.  About our guest: Steve Phillips is a bestselling author, columnist, and national political thought leader. He is the author of The New York Times and Washington Post bestsellers Brown Is the New White and How We Win the Civil War. His newest book is Are White Men Smarter Than Everybody Else?  He is also the founder of Democracy in Color, a political media organization dedicated to race, politics, and the progressive New American Majority. Phillips is the host of Democracy in Color with Steve Phillips, a color-conscious podcast on politics. He is a regular columnist for The Nation and The Guardian.

    46 min
  6. 22: Where Do You Belong? Multi-Ethnic Identity and Citizenship with Megumi Nishikura

    Mar 24

    22: Where Do You Belong? Multi-Ethnic Identity and Citizenship with Megumi Nishikura

    Sara. Misasha. Megumi. All three of us are the daughter of one Japanese parent and one White parent each. All three of us had dual citizenship with the United States and Japan at one point. But the trajectories of our citizenship are distinctly different, and only one of us holds a Japanese passport now. Are we all still Japanese?   Today, we speak with Megumi Nishikura, a documentary filmmaker who focuses on stories not often told in our history books, despite their themes impacting so many of us, Japanese or not. We explore belonging, identity, citizenship, and what history teaches us about where we are now - and the stories we want to carry forward with us. If you've ever wondered if you've belonged, or if you've ever been told you're not ____ enough, we hope you listen, and join our conversation.   What to listen for: The small things people - sometimes unintentionally - say that make others feel like they don't belong. What it's like to live in the grey zone between the law and reality when it comes to citizenship and membership in communities. One word: anxiety.  How observed demographic changes don't necessarily mean that lived experiences change too much…yet.  About Our Guest:  Megumi Nishikura is a documentary filmmaker whose work explores identity, belonging, and the cultural intersections between Japan and the world. Her feature documentary film "Hafu - the mixed race experience" screened theatrically throughout Japan and aired on PBS and NipponTV. She produced "Fall Seven Times, Get Up Eight: The Japanese War Brides," which aired globally on BBC World News. In 2019, Megumi directed and produced "Minidoka," a short film about the Japanese American internment experience during WWII, which was published by TIME magazine. She is currently making a film about Japan's Nationality Law and the dual citizenship issue in Japan.  When she's not making her own films, Megumi works as a producer on docuseries for major streaming platforms. A few photos from HAFU and her latest film:  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JK8VEHfq9dhog5ZSindMVccurZQXcYDj   Trailer links: Hafu - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_wQQZY-OE&t=1s War Brides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc0cpMPmMeU Minidoka - https://vimeo.com/384081882?fl=pl&fe=sh

    32 min
4.7
out of 5
140 Ratings

About

Join multi-ethnic co-hosts Sara + Misasha - two wickedly smart, heart-led, long-distance best friends - as they help folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us. Whether it's about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, their community consists of people who want to be better humans, to benefit all of us. We won't let the fire hose of information overwhelm us. Whether you're a seasoned expert or new to the work, you'll find yourself listening, learning, and feeling inspired to do something new after each episode. If you can never get enough knowledge but also don't want to feel overwhelmed… Congratulations, you've found your people. Follow to join a community of curious folks who constantly wonder: what do you mean by that?

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