What the REF?!

HiddenREF
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Welcome What the REF - Our attempt at demystifying everyone's favourite national research assessment exercise! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. What the REF did we learn at ARMA?!

    Jun 24

    What the REF did we learn at ARMA?!

    Episode 23 of What the REF looks back at the recent ARMA Conference and the team’s take on various sessions there on the Research Excellence Framework. Gemma, Ola, and James discuss uncertainty around REF 2029, proposals to broaden what counts as research outputs, and gaps between policy language and what actually happens in institutions. They also dig into some of the bigger critiques of the REF — from Stefan Collini’s call to scrap it altogether, to counter-arguments that stress the need for accountability and a fair way of distributing research funding. Along the way, they share reflections from ARMA workshops, swap insights from creativity-focused university events, and dive into some REF folklore. Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Gemma Derrick – a self-confessed REF junkie – Ola Thomson, and James Baker.Our producer is Ben Thomas. Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org 'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England. Want to get in touch? Email: WTreF@hidden-ref.org WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    36 min
  2. What the REF: In conversation with Steven Hill

    Jun 10

    What the REF: In conversation with Steven Hill

    Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org 'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England. Want to get in touch? Email: WTreF@hidden-ref.org WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    44 min
  3. What the REF?! It's the 2026 Hidden REF Competition!

    May 26

    What the REF?! It's the 2026 Hidden REF Competition!

    In this special episode of What the REF, the team officially launches the 2026 Hidden REF Competition and explores how it has evolved from a one-off initiative into a wider movement for research culture change. New co-host Michael Donnelly joins Lyndsey and Simon to discuss why the competition exists, who it supports, and how it helps spotlight overlooked research roles and outputs. They unpack this year’s REF-aligned submission process, share success stories from past entrants, and reflect on the morale boost, recognition and institutional change the competition has already inspired across the sector. Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Simon Hettrick, Lyndsey Ballantyne and Michael Donnay, and our producer is Ben Thomas. Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org 'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England. Want to get in touch? Email: WTreF@hidden-ref.org WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    21 min
  4. What the REF can be measured?

    May 13

    What the REF can be measured?

    This episode of What the REF explores some of the biggest tensions shaping REF and the wider research sector. Gemma, Simon and Lyndsey discuss a criticism of the measurement of research culture, arguing that accountability and lived experience matter more than simplistic metrics. They then examine growing enthusiasm for AI in research assessment, questioning whether evaluation can ever be automated without losing human judgement, trust and responsibility. The conversation also unpacks the uncertainty surrounding non-traditional outputs in REF submissions, from software and databases to exhibitions and performances, highlighting confusion around portfolios, supplementary evidence and what information panels actually need to make fair assessments. Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Gemma Derrick - a self-confessed REF junkie - Simon Hettrick and Lyndsey Ballantyne, and our producer is Ben Thomas. Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org 'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England. Want to get in touch? Email: WTreF@hidden-ref.org WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    31 min
  5. What the REF do REF institutional leads do?!

    May 6

    What the REF do REF institutional leads do?!

    Inside the REF machine: this episode of What the Ref lifts the lid on life as an institutional lead. Featuring Gemma Fitzsimmons and Julie Northam, we explore the realities of coordinating submissions, navigating ambiguous guidance, and building confidence across entire universities. From data security concerns to the challenge of representing diverse research outputs, the conversation blends practical insight with sector-wide reflection. Expect candid discussion on pressure, collaboration, and the surprisingly supportive REF community. If you have ever wondered how the REF really works behind the scenes – or how decisions get made – this episode offers a clear, human perspective on a complex national exercise. Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Simon Hettrick and Ola Thomson, and our producer is Ben Thomas. Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org 'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England. Want to get in touch? Email: WTreF@hidden-ref.org WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    59 min
  6. What the REF is happening with books?!

    Apr 10

    What the REF is happening with books?!

    This week on What the Ref, the team heads to Plymouth for a lively workshop on non-traditional outputs before diving into a fascinating interview with Gareth Cole on the future of open access books. From monographs to “long-form” research, they unpack the challenges of defining openness, funding models beyond book processing charges, and the tension between flexibility and REF policy. Is the system sidelining books—and entire disciplines? Plus, new REF folklore debunked: can novels and trade books really be submitted? A sharp, thought-provoking episode on where research publishing is heading next. Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Simon Hettrick, James Baker and Ola Thomson, and our producer is Ben Thomas. Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org 'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England. Want to get in touch? Email: WTreF@hidden-ref.org WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1h 1m
  7. What the REF is work/life balance?!

    Mar 18

    What the REF is work/life balance?!

    Dive into the latest episode of What the REF?, where the team unpacks shifting UK research funding, REF 2029 updates, and what an interim director could mean for the sector. From curiosity-driven research and “hidden roles” to the challenges of assessing non-traditional outputs, this episode explores how academia is evolving in real time. The conversation also tackles bigger cultural questions: joy in research, slow scholarship, and whether academia should just be ‘a job’. Plus, insights from NTO workshops, early career concerns, and the future of research assessment—practical, honest, and thought-provoking throughout. Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Simon Hettrick, Ola Thomson and James Baker. Our producer is Ben Thomas. Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org 'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England. Want to get in touch? Email: WTreF@hidden-ref.org WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    34 min
  8. What the REF is the Hidden REF Competition?!

    Mar 5

    What the REF is the Hidden REF Competition?!

    Discover the story behind the Hidden REF Competition in this special episode of What the REF. James and Lindsay explain how the initiative celebrates the vital but often overlooked contributions that keep research running—from software and datasets to infrastructure, engagement, and the people behind the scenes. Learn how the competition works, who is involved, and why the research community’s submissions matter. With volunteer panels, community-driven categories, and real stories of recognition and impact, the Hidden REF shines a spotlight on the hidden roles and outputs that traditional research assessment often misses. Plus, hear what is new for the 2026 competition and how you can get involved. Interested in joining an expert group? You can sign up here: https://hidden-ref.org/expert-groups/ Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: James Baker and Lyndsey Ballantyne, and our producer is Ben Thomas. Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org 'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England. Want to get in touch? Email: WTreF@hidden-ref.org WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    35 min
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About

Welcome What the REF - Our attempt at demystifying everyone's favourite national research assessment exercise! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Information

  • Creator
    HiddenREF
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    24
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Ben Thomas
  • Show Website
    What the REF?!

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