Why Distance Learning?

Seth Fleischauer, Allyson Mitchell, and Tami Moehring
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Why Distance Learning? is a podcast about the decisions, design choices, and assumptions that determine whether live virtual learning becomes shallow and transactional—or meaningful, relational, and effective at scale. The show is designed for education leaders, instructional designers, and system-level practitioners responsible for adopting, scaling, and sustaining virtual, hybrid, and online learning models. Each episode examines the structural conditions under which distance learning actually works—and the predictable reasons it fails when it doesn’t. Through conversations with researchers, experienced practitioners, and field-shaping leaders, Why Distance Learning? translates research, field evidence, and lived experience into decision-relevant insight. Episodes surface real tradeoffs, near-failures, and hard-won lessons, equipping listeners with clear framing and language they can use to explain, defend, or redesign distance learning models in real organizational contexts. Hosted by Seth Fleischauer of Banyan Global Learning, and Allyson Mitchell and Tami Moehring of the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, the podcast challenges outdated narratives about distance learning and explores what becomes possible when live virtual education is designed intentionally, human-centered, and grounded in evidence.

  1. 2d ago

    #87 Public by Design: Running the Statewide Virtual School in Missouri with Dr. Nichole Lemmon

    In this episode of Why Distance Learning, Seth, Allyson, and Tami speak with Dr. Nichole Lemmon, Executive Director of Virtual Learning and Strategic Planning at Springfield Public Schools and founder of Launch Virtual Learning — about what it takes to run the only statewide K-12 virtual school in the country inside a public school district. Launch serves more than 400 Missouri districts and 23,000 students annually, with 85% of those students enrolled in just one or two courses at a time, a structure Nichole has maintained deliberately for fifteen years. Together, Seth, Allyson, Tami, and Nichole explore how Missouri's public education funding flows through virtual providers and why roughly $60 million of it is going to out-of-state for-profit companies. They get into the three reasons Launch outperforms the field on state assessments: Missouri-specific curriculum, class sizes that mirror what the state mandates for seated schools, and in-state testing. They talk about what drove the decision to add synchronous instruction after years of building async-first, and what it looked like when Nichole told the governor of Missouri she could put the entire state on her platform in 2020 - and then had to deliver on it. The conversation also covers how Launch now runs direct-to-consumer ad campaigns on Hulu targeting millennial women on Sunday evenings, and why a public school program decided it had to compete on marketing terms with the companies it's trying to outperform. Key Topics Public vs. for-profit virtual school funding in MissouriCourse-access model and why 85% of Launch students take one or two classesClass size standards and how Launch mirrors seated school requirementsWhy Launch added synchronous instruction — and what wasn't working without itCOVID-era overextension: saying yes to the governor and the two-year recoveryVirtual special education and medically fragile learnersDirect-to-consumer marketing for a public school programLinks & Resources Launch Virtual Learning: https://launchvirtuallearning.comVirtual Learning Leadership Alliance (VLLA): https://virtuallearningalliance.orgVLLA Accred accreditation program: https://accredved.org/Digital Learning Collaborative (DLAC): https://www.digitallearningcollaborative.comKSMU: Launch Virtual Learning Serves Thousands (May 2025): https://www.ksmu.org/news/2025-05-21/launch-virtual-learning-serves-thousands-from-its-office-in-springfieldPulitzer Center — Cash and Consequences: For-Profit Online Education in Missouri (2021): https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/cash-and-consequences-profit-online-education-missouriPew Charitable Trusts — Virtual Classrooms, Real-World Disparities (Nov 2025): https://www.pew.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2025/11/virtual-classrooms-real-world-disparitiesGuest Bio: Dr. Nichole Lemmon Dr. Nichole Lemmon is the Executive Director of Virtual Learning and Strategic Planning at Springfield Public Schools in Missouri, where she founded SPS Online in 2011 - now known as Launch Virtual Learning - and grew it into the only statewide K-12 virtual school in the country operating inside a public school district, serving more than 400 districts annually. She serves on the Executive Board of the Virtual Learning Leadership Alliance and as the Missouri State Affiliate for the Digital Learning Collaborative. Dr. Lemmon holds a doctorate in Curriculum and Instruction from Lindenwood University. About the Hosts Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and a host of Why Distance Learning, a podcast for education leaders and practitioners making real decisions about how virtual learning gets designed, adopted, and sustained. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators. See https://www.banyangloballearning.com/programs/global-cohorts Allyson Mitchell and Tami Moehring are co-hosts of Why Distance Learning and members of the team at CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, which connects students to real experts through live virtual field trips and experiences. See https://cilc.org

    #87 Public by Design: Running the Statewide Virtual School in Missouri with Dr. Nichole Lemmon

  2. Aug 3

    #86 You Already Agreed to This: Digital Accessibility as Civil Rights with Ray Rose

    In this episode of Why Distance Learning, Seth Fleischauer and Allyson Mitchell talk with Raymond Rose - President of Rose & Smith Associates and Public Policy Chair at the Texas Digital Learning Association- about what digital accessibility actually requires of educational institutions, and what it means to be out of compliance with an agreement you've already signed. Rose came to this work through civil rights enforcement, not ed tech, and it shows in how he frames the problem. For most institutions, the legal commitment to full accessibility is already on record. The question is whether anyone knows it. Together, the hosts and Raymond explore the Office of Civil Rights' operational definition of accessibility - same information, same interactions, same time frame - and why the "same time frame" clause changes what compliance actually looks like in practice. They work through the most common failures in online courses: PDFs that are images rather than readable text, missing alt text on graphics, videos without adequate captions, and data tables used for layout. Raymond explains why Universal Design for Learning is the right design framework for all learners - not just those with identified disabilities - and points to a simple test: 25% of males have some form of colorblindness, and roughly half your audience is already using closed captioning on their television. The episode also covers how to ask vendors for a VPAT before purchasing third-party tools, where automatic captioning still falls short, and what shifts when the students are K-12. The episode closes with Raymond making the case that most institutions are not deliberately ignoring accessibility - they just haven't been told they were already responsible for it. Key topics Digital accessibility as a civil rights obligation under Section 504 and ADAThe OCR definition: same information, same interactions, same time frameUniversal Design for Learning (UDL) — the three components and why it benefits all learnersCommon compliance failures: PDFs, alt text, captioning, color contrast, data tablesHow automatic captioning has improved and where it still falls shortVPAT (Voluntary Product Accessibility Template) and how to vet third-party vendorsThe 504 coordinator gap: most schools have never trained this role for the web contextK-12 vs. higher ed: where the compliance pressure sits and why K-12 has been slowerLinks & Resources WAVE Accessibility Checker — free tool for identifying accessibility errors on any website. wave.webaim.orgCAST — Universal Design for Learning — the national headquarters for UDL frameworks and resources. cast.orgTxDLA Digital Accessibility Course — Texas Digital Learning Association's multi-session course on digital accessibility. txdla.orgQuality Matters — standards and training for quality online course design. qualitymatters.orgNational Standards for Quality Online Programs — Aurora Institute. https://www.aurora-institute.org/wp-content/uploads/national-standards-for-quality-online-programs.pdfRose, R. & Blomeyer, R. (2007). Access and Equity in Online Classes and Virtual Schools. iNACOL / Aurora Institute. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED509623.pdfRose, R. (2014). Access and Equity for All Learners in Blended and Online Education. Aurora Institute (formerly iNACOL). aurora-institute.orgRaymond Rose's blog — e-Learning Evangelist rmrose.blogspot.comGuest Bio: Raymond Rose Raymond Rose is President of Rose & Smith Associates and serves as Public Policy Chair and Digital Accessibility Liaison at the Texas Digital Learning Association (TxDLA). He co-directed the Virtual High School at the Concord Consortium - one of the first large-scale K-12 online programs in the country -  and wrote the nation's first virtual school Special Education Policy. For two decades he has focused on digital accessibility as a civil rights obligation for K-12 and higher education, working with institutions, policymakers, and federal funders on what compliance actually requires. He was inducted into the TxDLA Hall of Fame in 2026. About the Hosts Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators - building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://www.banyangloballearning.com/programs/global-cohorts Allyson Mitchell works with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.

    #86 You Already Agreed to This: Digital Accessibility as Civil Rights with Ray Rose

  3. Jul 20

    #85 Hot Takes: What Five Episodes of Research Taught Us with Seth, Allyson, and Tami

    In this special episode of Why Distance Learning, hosts Seth Fleischauer, Allyson Mitchell, and Tami Moehring skip the guest interview and trade hot takes drawn from their recent run of research conversations — with Michael Barbour, Bobbi Sandberg, Jered Borup, and Kristen DeBruler. Each host came in with their own list, then picked which ones to dig into together. What surfaces is a set of specific, evidence-backed reframes: where parents' instincts to help go wrong, why remote isolation is a design failure rather than an inherent cost of distance learning, and what's actually breaking down when students sense their teachers are using AI on their feedback. Together, the hosts work through the Academic Communities of Engagement framework's head/heart/hands distinction, and why the "heart" and "hands" work — trust, executive-functioning support — protects kids more than parents jumping in on academic content. They connect a CBS News piece on remote-worker isolation to Michael Barbour's finding that logging into school was, for some students, the most normal part of their pandemic day, arguing that isolation is what happens when culture isn't designed on purpose, not something baked into the medium. And they spend the back half of the episode on AI: not the cheating problem schools have mostly focused on, but the mirror-image trust break when students catch teachers using it on feedback without saying so — and why an honest, disclosed, assignment-by-assignment AI policy beats a blanket ban nobody actually follows. Key topics: Head, heart, hands: the Academic Communities of Engagement (ACE) frameworkWhy parental "head" support (re-teaching content) can do more harm than goodRemote work isolation as a design failure, not a modality problemMichael Barbour's finding on pandemic remote learning and student mental healthTeacher-student trust and AI-generated feedbackAssignment-by-assignment AI disclosure as an alternative to blanket bans"Improved" vs. "more" parental involvementLinks & Resources Prior Why Distance Learning episodes referenced: Michael Barbour (Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3), Helaine Marshall, Bobbi Sandberg, Jered Borup (Part 1 & Part 2), Kristen DeBrulerAcademic Communities of Engagement (ACE) framework: https://edtechbooks.org/encyclopedia/academic_communities_of_engagement_ace_frameworkBehind the Screen: Exploring Parental Roles in K-12 Online Education (Sandberg & Borup, Journal of Research on Technology in Education, 2025): https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15391523.2024.2447729Cuccolo, K. & DeBruler, K. (2024). A Look Back At 3 Years of Michigan Virtual Research. Michigan Virtual. https://michiganvirtual.org/research/publications/a-look-back-at-3-years-of-michigan-virtual-research/Make It Mindful episode with Katherine Heavers on the biology of trust (referenced by Seth): https://mim.bepodcast.network/episodes/85-katherine-heaversCBS News piece on remote work and isolation (referenced by Tami): https://www.cbsnews.com/news/remote-work-job-isolation-mental-health/Derek Thompson, "A World Without Work," The Atlantic (July/August 2015): https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/world-without-work/395294/Ikigai (Japanese concept referenced by Allyson): https://www.japan.go.jp/kizuna/2022/03/ikigai_japanese_secret_to_a_joyful_life.htmlNote: this is a hosts-only episode, so there's no guest bio or guest-provided links to confirm — just the items above referenced on air. About the Hosts: Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/ Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell work with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.

    #85 Hot Takes: What Five Episodes of Research Taught Us with Seth, Allyson, and Tami

  4. Jul 6

    #84 Why Is Teaching Online Still Not Part of Teacher Prep? with Michael Barbour

    In this episode of Why Distance Learning, your hosts talk again with Michael Barbour — the most-cited researcher in K-12 online and distance learning — about what it would actually take to fix how teachers are prepared to teach online, and why thirty years of K-12 virtual learning hasn't produced that change yet. Drawing on his 2024 paper with Charles Hodges, Michael lays out six concrete steps — two focused on building the research base, four focused on teacher preparation programs — and explains why none of it happens without explicit mandates from states and accreditation bodies. The assumption under examination: that teacher prep programs will gradually incorporate online pedagogy on their own as demand grows. The evidence suggests they won't, for the same reason they never properly integrated technology in the first place. Together, the hosts and Michael explore the structural reasons teacher preparation programs can't make room for online pedagogy without a mandate, even when they want to. They dig into a counterintuitive finding from Newfoundland and Labrador — where students with K-12 online learning experience actually performed worse in college online courses than their peers, not because online experience is harmful, but because of how that particular program's heavy synchronous structure coddled students in ways that didn't transfer. They examine what the research actually shows about online learning and mental health (short version: the modality isn't the problem, and during the pandemic, logging into school may have been the most normal part of a child's day). And they work through the affordances and tradeoffs of synchronous versus asynchronous instruction — a framework any practitioner can apply immediately. Michael closes with the two big questions currently driving his research: where is the field of K-12 online learning thirty years in, and how much of what gets regulated in the US is driven by ideology rather than evidence? Key topics: Six-step framework for reforming online teacher preparation (Barbour & Hodges, 2024)Why teacher prep programs don't change without state or accreditation mandatesThe Newfoundland counterintuitive finding: when prior online experience hurtsSite-based facilitators / e-deans and the role of on-site support in distance programsSynchronous vs. asynchronous instruction: affordances, tradeoffs, and how to chooseOnline learning and student mental health: what the research actually showsGovernance and regulation of K-12 online learning in the US vs. other jurisdictionsLinks & Resources: Michael Barbour's website: michaelbarbour.comBarbour, M. K., & Hodges, C. B. (2024). Preparing teachers to teach online: Steps for teacher education. Open Praxis. https://openpraxis.org/articles/10.55982/openpraxis.16.4.727Barbour, M. K., Moore, S., & Veletsianos, G. (2023). Online/remote learning and mental health. https://touroscholar.touro.edu/tucse-pubs/29/Digital Learning Collaborative / Community for Advancing Digital Learning (DLAC): Research agenda report and special issue of the Journal of Online Learning Research https://www.deelac.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/DLAC-Research-Agenda-Phase-2-Final-1052025.pdfGuest Bio: Michael Barbour Michael Barbour is widely cited as the most prolific researcher in K-12 online and distance learning. His work spans student success and persistence in virtual environments, teacher preparation for online instruction, and the governance and regulation of K-12 online programs across jurisdictions. He is currently focused on building a research agenda for the field and examining how political ideology shapes online learning policy in the United States compared to other countries. Barbour holds a faculty position and has previously held posts at Wayne State University, among others. About the Hosts: Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/programs/global-cohorts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell work with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.

    #84 Why Is Teaching Online Still Not Part of Teacher Prep? with Michael Barbour

  5. Jun 22

    #83 Can Flexibility Hurt Online Learners? What Pacing Data Reveals with Kristen DeBruler

    In this episode of Why Distance Learning, your hosts talk with Kristen DeBruler — Assistant Director of the Michigan Virtual Learning Research Institute — about what makes online learning work for K-12 students, and what quietly undermines it. Drawing on survey data from over a thousand virtual teachers and fresh findings on student and teacher AI perceptions, her work reveals where the conventional promises of online learning diverge from what the data actually shows. The episode centers on a tension that practitioners rarely name directly: the flexibility that makes online learning valuable for some students can work against those who are still developing the self-regulation skills to use it well. Together, the hosts and Kristen explore how a researcher inside a state virtual learning organization sets and pursues a research agenda — including the unusual advantage of having direct access to student data. They examine common failure modes in classroom-level research, particularly how vague research questions leave teachers vulnerable to the biases they're trying to surface. Kristen walks through her team's findings on the gap between how students and teachers define acceptable AI use, and why that ambiguity is already showing up in the classroom. The conversation turns to teacher feedback as the connective tissue of asynchronous online learning — and what the data shows about what makes it work and what makes it hollow. And Kristen makes a pointed case about applying adult learning research to K-12 populations: the data doesn't transfer as cleanly as the field sometimes assumes, and the consequences land on students who are still building the executive functioning skills that adult learners already have. Her pacing research is illustrative: students who cross unit boundaries — not just move around within one — end up with final grades 9.5 points lower on average, a gap large enough that teachers should treat it as a warning signal, not background noise. Key topics: Researcher role inside a state virtual learning organizationSetting a research agenda: legislative directives vs. internal needsAvoiding bias in classroom-level researchThe AI acceptable-use gap between students and teachersTeacher feedback as the primary relationship-building mechanism in async coursesWhat makes feedback substantive (personal, formative, actionable) vs. hollowAI-generated feedback and trust erosion in online learningStudent pacing deviation and its effect on learning outcomesExecutive functioning support for K-12 online learnersCautions in applying adult learning research to adolescentsLinks & Resources Michigan Virtual: https://michiganvirtual.orgMichigan Virtual Digital Backpack (blog): https://michiganvirtual.org/blog/Michigan Virtual research publications: https://michiganvirtual.org/research/publications/Cuccolo, K. & DeBruler, K. (2024). A Look Back At 3 Years of Michigan Virtual Research. Michigan Virtual. — Source of the AI policy gap data (30%/80%) and AI facilitator vs. task-completion findings. https://michiganvirtual.org/research/publications/a-look-back-at-3-years-of-michigan-virtual-research/Cuccolo, K. & DeBruler, K. (2024). Out of Order, Out of Reach: Navigating Assignment Sequences for STEM Success. Michigan Virtual. — Source of the 9.5-point pacing deviation finding. https://michiganvirtual.org/research/publications/out-of-order-out-of-reach-navigating-assignment-sequences-for-stem-success/DeBruler, K. & Harrington, C. (2024). Key Strategies for Supporting Disengaged and Struggling Students in Virtual Learning Environments. Michigan Virtual. https://michiganvirtual.org/research/publications/key-strategies-for-supporting-disengaged-and-struggling-students-in-virtual-learning-environments/Harrington, C. & DeBruler, K. (2021). Key Strategies for Engaging Students in Virtual Learning Environments. Michigan Virtual. https://michiganvirtual.org/research/publications/key-strategies-for-engaging-students-in-virtual-learning-environments/Michigan Virtual report on student and teacher AI perceptions (2026): [LINK — get from guest; published ~2 weeks before recording]Jared Borup's ACE for Community Framework: https://edtechbooks.org/encyclopedia/academic_communities_of_engagement_ace_framework Virtual Learning Leadership Alliance (VLLA): https://virtuallearningalliance.org/Karle Delo, Michigan Virtual (AI policy): https://michiganvirtual.org (search staff directory)Why Distance Learning Michigan Virtual Episodes: See list for episodes with Dr. Tovah Sheldon and two with MV alum Chris Harrington. https://www.cilc.org/News-(1)/Why-Distance-Learning-Podcast.aspxMake It Mindful Michigan Virtual Episodes: See list from Seth's other podcast for episodes with Karle Delo and two with Aaron Baughman. https://mim.bepodcast.network/episodesGuest Bio: Kristen DeBruler Kristen DeBruler is the Assistant Director of the Michigan Virtual Learning Research Institute, where she has spent more than 14 years studying K-12 online learning — including student pacing, teacher communication, mentor support, special populations, and AI use in virtual environments. Her research is oriented toward practitioners: she publishes findings in formats designed for teachers, administrators, and program leaders to act on, not just cite. She holds a PhD in Educational Psychology and Educational Technology from Michigan State University. About the Hosts Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/ Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell work with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.

    #83 Can Flexibility Hurt Online Learners? What Pacing Data Reveals with Kristen DeBruler

  6. Jun 8

    #82 All Learning Is Social: Jered Borup on Social Presence in K-12 Online Learning (Part 2)

    In this episode of Why Distance Learning, your hosts continue their conversation with Jered Borup — professor at George Mason University and one of the most-cited researchers in K-12 online learning — about what AI in education is actually doing to relationships, what social presence requires when "build a video lecture" can be done by a chatbot, and why teacher burnout is the real bottleneck the field doesn't want to talk about. Borup connects his earliest 2012 work on asynchronous video to his 2025 Open Praxis research on combining AI-generated text with human-created video, and argues that AI used to offload feedback erodes the very thing online learners need: the felt sense that the teacher is real and knows them. Together, the hosts and Jered explore the conflation of social media, video games, and ed tech in the parental imagination after the pandemic; how to use AI without replacing the relational core of teaching; why one-on-one asynchronous video may build social presence more reliably than synchronous Zoom classes; the DLAC Phase 2 research agenda Borup co-authored with Michael Barbour and Kristen DeBruler; the mental-health gap between teachers and other professionals with comparable education; and Borup's one-line answer to the show's title question — that personalization and Universal Design for Learning are easier to do online than off. This is Part 2 of a two-part conversation. Listen to Part 1 for the foundational ACE framework, the on-site mentor model, and the parent question. Key Topics "Emergency remote learning" vs. real online learning — what parents are still confusingSocial presence — old research, new tools (asynchronous video, AI-plus-human-video)The risk of offloading teacher feedback to AIAsynchronous one-on-one video as a relationship lever (vs. one-to-many Zoom)DLAC Research Agenda Phase 2 — what's keeping researchers up at nightTeacher mental health and the AI strain on top of pandemic strainAuthentic assessment and "we're too in love with the five-paragraph essay"Empathy as the core design move"Why distance learning?" — empowerment, personalization, UDLLinks & Resources Jered Borup's site: https://sites.google.com/site/jeredborup/ACE Framework on EdTech Books: https://edtechbooks.org/encyclopedia/academic_communities_of_engagement_ace_frameworkA Framework for Establishing Social Presence Through the Combination of AI-generated Text with Human-created Video (Open Praxis, 2025): https://openpraxis.org/articles/10.55982/openpraxis.17.1.769Harnessing the Power of Generative AI to Support ALL Learners (Borup, Evmenova & Shin, 2024): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380570253_Harnessing_the_Power_of_Generative_AI_to_Support_ALL_LearnersDLAC Research Agenda Phase Two (Borup, Barbour & DeBruler, Sept 2025): https://www.deelac.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/DLAC-Research-Agenda-Phase-2-Final-1052025.pdfBreaking Through the Screen: Practical Tips for Engaging Learners in the Online and Blended Classroom (Borup & Joan Kang Shin, National Geographic Learning): https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Through-Screen-Practical-classroom/dp/0357541855K-12 Blended Teaching open-source book series: https://edtechbooks.org/k12blended_seriesJered's Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=PGs7TacAAAAJ&hl=enPart 1 of this conversation: [LINK — add when published]Guest Bio: Jered Borup Jered Borup is a professor in the Division of Learning Technologies at George Mason University and co-coordinator of the Learning Technologies in Schools graduate program. His research, grounded in six years of junior-high history teaching, focuses on K-12 online and blended learning: the support communities that surround a learner, the parental role in online education, and how generative AI can extend personalized support to historically underserved students. He earned his Ph.D. in Instructional Psychology and Technology from Brigham Young University and has been recognized as one of the top 2% most-cited researchers in his field. About the Hosts Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/ Allyson Mitchell works with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.

    #82 All Learning Is Social: Jered Borup on Social Presence in K-12 Online Learning (Part 2)

  7. May 26

    #81 School and Personal Communities Must Work Together to Make Online Learning Engaging with Jered Borup (Part 1)

    In this episode of Why Distance Learning, your hosts talk with Jered Borup — professor at George Mason University, co-creator of the Academic Communities of Engagement framework, and one of the most-cited researchers in K-12 online learning — about why student engagement isn't a property of the student or a skill the teacher unlocks, and why most online programs are leaving the work undone. Borup's framework distinguishes the course community (teachers, designers, mentors) from the personal community (parents, family, on-site adults) and argues engagement is what those two produce together. The assumption on the table: that "more parental involvement" is what fixes online learning — when in fact, untrained involvement, his research shows, can hurt about as often as it helps. Together, the hosts and Jered explore the ACE framework's two communities, the on-site mentor model from Mountain Heights Academy and Michigan's mentor mandate, what it actually takes to teach a student how to learn online, the equity gap in who gets meaningful support, and where parents fit (and don't). Along the way: the Michigan administrator who tapped someone on the shoulder and said "you're now Sally's mentor," the parent with only a high-school diploma who turned out to be one of the 12 most successful mentors in the study, and the parent who confessed to Jered that she does her kid's online discussion-board posts because they're "busy work." This is Part 1 of a two-part conversation. Key Topics The Academic Communities of Engagement (ACE) frameworkCourse community vs. personal communityOn-site mentors as the missing link in K-12 online learningMichigan's mentor mandate — and why fidelity varies by schoolWhy "improved" parental engagement matters more than "more"Designing parent support: a trickle of just-in-time tips, not a classThe equity gap in self-regulation and "how to learn online"Links & Resources Jered Borup's site: https://sites.google.com/site/jeredborup/ACE Framework on EdTech Books: https://edtechbooks.org/encyclopedia/academic_communities_of_engagement_ace_frameworkAcademic Communities of Engagement (Borup, Graham et al., ETR&D, 2020): https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11423-020-09744-xBehind the Screen: Exploring Parental Roles in K-12 Online Education (Sandberg & Borup, Journal of Research on Technology in Education, 2025): https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15391523.2024.2447729Parental Support Challenges for K-12 Student Online Engagement (Sandberg, Borup et al., Distance Education, 2024): https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01587919.2024.2397481Michigan Virtual — Why Mentors Matter: A Conversation with Jered Borup: https://michiganvirtual.org/blog/why-mentors-matter-a-conversation-with-jered-borup/K–12 Blended Teaching (open-source book series): https://edtechbooks.org/k12blended_seriesBobbi Sandberg episode (Why Distance Learning): [LINK — add when published]Guest Bio: Jered Borup Jered Borup is a professor in the Division of Learning Technologies at George Mason University and co-coordinator of the Learning Technologies in Schools graduate program. His research, grounded in six years of junior-high history teaching, focuses on K-12 online and blended learning: the support communities that surround a learner, the parental role in online education, and how generative AI can extend personalized support to historically underserved students. He earned his Ph.D. in Instructional Psychology and Technology from Brigham Young University and has been recognized as one of the top 2% most-cited researchers in his field. About the Hosts Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/ Allyson Mitchell works with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.

    #81 School and Personal Communities Must Work Together to Make Online Learning Engaging with Jered Borup (Part 1)

  8. May 11

    #80 Parents: the Co-Teachers No One Trained with Bobbie Sandberg

    In this episode of Why Distance Learning, Seth and Allyson speak with Bobbie Sandberg — an educational researcher who recently completed her PhD in instructional psychology and technology at BYU — about what's actually happening in the household when a K-12 student learns online, and why most programs aren't designed for the answer. Bobbie's research, grounded in Jered Borup's Academic Communities of Engagement framework, reframes engagement as a three-dimensional challenge — cognitive, behavioral, and affective — that K-12 students can't sustain alone. When the school is online, the support system shifts to whoever is home. And most programs haven't reckoned with what that means. Together, Seth, Allyson, and Bobbie explore how parents naturally divide the labor of support, why more involvement isn't the same as better involvement, and what happens when families arrive at virtual school not by choice but because nothing else worked. Bobbie also shares what she's learned about the critical first weeks of enrollment, why explicit role invitations from programs make a surprisingly big difference, and the underrated power of affective engagement — including a story about refugee mothers whose aspirational storytelling did what tutoring couldn't. Key topics discussed: - the three dimensions of student engagement and who owns each one- why cognitive support from parents can actually backfire- mooring factors and why families don't always "choose" online school- the fire hose problem in onboarding; designing for autonomy instead of dependence- why affective engagement might be the most underestimated variable in online learning. Links & Resources: Bobbie's parent guide website: https://www.supportonlinelearning.com/parentguide.htmlBobbie's parent assessment - HOPE survey: https://byu.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_7WdzYJPDpXve16K "Behind the Screen: Exploring Parental Roles in K-12 Online Education" (Journal of Research on Technology in Education, 2024) - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15391523.2024.2447729"Parental Support Challenges for K-12 Student Online Engagement" (Distance Education, 2024) - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01587919.2024.2397481 "Choosing Virtual: Understanding the Forces that Drive Parents Toward Online K-12 Education" (Journal of School Choice, 2025) - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15582159.2025.2534005Guest Bio: Bobbie Sandberg is an educational researcher who recently completed her PhD in instructional psychology and technology at Brigham Young University. Her work focuses on parental roles in K-12 online education, with published research on how families navigate school choice, how parents construct their support roles, and where programs most commonly fail to design for the home environment. She holds a BA in linguistics and a TESOL master's certification from BYU. About the Hosts: Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/global-learning-live/ Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell work with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.

    #80 Parents: the Co-Teachers No One Trained with Bobbie Sandberg
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About

Why Distance Learning? is a podcast about the decisions, design choices, and assumptions that determine whether live virtual learning becomes shallow and transactional—or meaningful, relational, and effective at scale. The show is designed for education leaders, instructional designers, and system-level practitioners responsible for adopting, scaling, and sustaining virtual, hybrid, and online learning models. Each episode examines the structural conditions under which distance learning actually works—and the predictable reasons it fails when it doesn’t. Through conversations with researchers, experienced practitioners, and field-shaping leaders, Why Distance Learning? translates research, field evidence, and lived experience into decision-relevant insight. Episodes surface real tradeoffs, near-failures, and hard-won lessons, equipping listeners with clear framing and language they can use to explain, defend, or redesign distance learning models in real organizational contexts. Hosted by Seth Fleischauer of Banyan Global Learning, and Allyson Mitchell and Tami Moehring of the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, the podcast challenges outdated narratives about distance learning and explores what becomes possible when live virtual education is designed intentionally, human-centered, and grounded in evidence.

Information

  • Creator
    Seth Fleischauer, Allyson Mitchell, and Tami Moehring
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    92
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2024 Why Distance Learning?
  • Show Website
    Why Distance Learning?