WonkyFolk

CharterFolk

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EDUCATION
UPDATED BIWEEKLY

WonkyFolk is a discussion series between Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace intended to provide an informative and engaging forum where education reformers can grapple with tough issues related to our shared quest to improve public education in our country.

DEC 16

Vol 31 - The Sorta Holiday Episode: Missed Opportunities on Education

# WonkyFolk: Year in Review - How Many Mulligans Does a Country Get? How many mulligans does a country get before there are real consequences? In this year-end conversation, Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham confront 2025's uncomfortable truths: neither party heard the message voters sent, ed reformers have gone soft on accountability, and we're spending another year arguing while kids fall further behind. They explore Virginia's accountability experiment, the problem with universal school choice that doesn't prioritize low-income students, and what made Rod Paige different—a leader with a "core of steel" anchored by clear beliefs. Plus: why Brandon Brown and Howard Fuller are calling for more courage in the charter movement, and whether public education can offer anything to compete with disruption. **Episode Highlights:** • Why 2025 was another year of missed opportunities • The retreat from meaningful accountability—and why reformers are complicit • Virginia's test: Will Spanberger build on Youngkin's reforms or tear them down? • Universal school choice without income targeting: A problem? • Revealed preferences: Leaders who oppose accountability but ensure their own kids get it • Remembering Rod Paige and the power of vision and beliefs • The courage question: Brandon Brown, Howard Fuller, and finding your moxie **Show Notes:** CharterFolk Brandon Brown interviewHess and Rotherham on cell phones and student engagement Andy on cell phone bans as surrenderAndy on what's next for education in VirginiaTennessee religious charter schools case

59 min
NOV 4

Vol 30 - Mike Kirst Digs In

In this special episode of WonkyFolk, Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace sit down with education policy legend Dr. Mike Kirst—a man whose career spans six decades of shaping education in California and beyond. From working in the Office of Management and Budget under the Great Society programs to chairing the California State Board of Education under two governors, Kirst shares an insider’s view of how education policy gets made—and remade. He walks us through his incredible journey from Harvard to Washington to Stanford, including his role in designing Title I, navigating political upheaval, and helping reinvent California’s education finance system. You’ll hear: How Mike stumbled into K–12 education policymaking—and never leftBehind-the-scenes stories from the federal and state levelsReflections on the evolution of school finance reformThoughts on what California’s education system got right—and still needs to fix This is a masterclass in education policy, history, and political resilience from someone who’s truly seen it all. Show Notes: Andy on the ESA division question: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/will-the-trump-administration-goOverview of California's "Local Control Funding Formula" (LCFF) enacted in 2013-14: https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/lc/lcffoverview.asp

1h 3m
OCT 20

Vol 29 - CREDO on Ice? A Conversation With Macke Raymond About Education And Her Next Project

Join Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham for an illuminating conversation with Margaret "Macke" Raymond, one of education's most influential researchers. As Director of CREDO (Center for Research on Education Outcomes) at Stanford University and Distinguished Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Macke has spent two decades producing the definitive studies on charter school performance that shape policy debates nationwide. In this episode, Macke pulls back the curtain on how rigorous education research actually works, from the methodological challenges of measuring school effectiveness to the evolution of accountability systems across states. She discusses CREDO's groundbreaking longitudinal studies, the complexities of comparing charter and traditional public schools, and why context matters more than headlines suggest. The conversation explores the intersection of research and policy-making, touching on California's "gnarly" accountability system with its 50+ indicators, the role of charter management organizations in scaling successful models, and the ongoing debates about how we measure educational success. Macke also shares insights from Stanford's "tectonics" project and reflects on how education research has evolved over her distinguished career. This is essential listening for education policy professionals, researchers, advocates, and anyone who wants to understand the data behind the debates. Macke's expertise and the hosts' thoughtful questions create a substantive discussion that goes far beyond talking points to examine the real challenges and opportunities in American education. Topics Covered: •CREDO's methodology and longitudinal research approach •Charter school performance measurement and accountability •The evolution of education policy research •State accountability systems and their effectiveness •The role of research in shaping education policy •Challenges in scaling successful educational models Resources and Links: CREDO and Macke Raymond's Work: •CREDO Charter Schools Reports: https://credo.stanford.edu/research-reports/charter-studies/ •Macke's "Fun House Mirror" Hoover Summit Introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeklNPBF9RE •Previous WonkyFolk CREDO Episode with Macke: https://www.charterfolk.org/wonkyfolk-vol-5-special-credo-episode-with-macke-raymond/ Hoover Institution Resources: •Hoover Institution K-12 Education Work: https://www.hoover.org/focus-areas/reforming-k-12-education •Education Futures Council Report: https://www.hoover.org/press/education-futures-council-unveils-report-ours-solve-once-and-for-all • Andy’s PMC fundraiser mentioned in the episode: https://profile.pmc.org/Andrew-Rotherham Additional Reading: •Tom Dee's Ed Week Article on Research and Practice: https://www.edweek.org/leadership/opinion-high-quality-research-rarely-informs-classroom-practice-why/2025/09 •Diane Ravitch's New Autobiography: a href="https://amzn.to/3JfpRne" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

1h 3m
AUG 21

Vol 28 - Breaking Down The New Federal School Choice Program With Shaka Mitchell

Is a massive federal tax credit about to transform American education? 🎓 Join Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham as they dive deep with Shaka Mitchell from the American Federation for Children into what could be the most significant school choice development in years. This isn't your typical education policy discussion – it's about a "seismic" shift that could reshape how families access educational options nationwide. 🎙️ What You'll Discover: • The federal tax credit program that's flying under the radar • What this means for families nationwide • Why this policy could be a game-changer for low-income families • What are SGOs, and how they will play a key role • How it can look different in different states 🔥 Why This Matters: While everyone's focused on the usual education debates, a quiet revolution in school choice funding might be happening right under our noses. Don't miss this insider perspective on what could be the next big thing in education policy. 📺 Perfect for: Education leaders, policy wonks, parents exploring school options, and anyone curious about the future of American education. 📚 Show Notes & Resources • Georgetown's Edunomics Lab Analysis • AFC Federal Tax Credits Overview

59 min
JUL 9

Vol 27 - Navigating "The Lost Decade" with Steven Wilson

Recorded live at the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools’ annual conference in Orlando, this special episode of WonkyFolk features a candid and thought-provoking interview with education leader and author Steven Wilson. Hosts Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace sit down with Steven to unpack his latest book, The Lost Decade, and explore what it means for the future of education reform. In their signature style—honest, informed, and unafraid of disagreement—Andy and Jed also share reflections from the conference floor and dig into the hard questions facing the charter movement today. It’s a conversation rich with insight, nuance, and vision for what comes next. 🎙️ In This Episode: • Steven Wilson breaks down the themes of The Lost Decade • Reflections on leadership, accountability, and innovation in schools • Why reform feels stuck—and what might move it forward • Conference takeaways and real-time reactions from the field • A few lively disagreements between Jed and Andy (naturally!) This is an essential listen for anyone working in or thinking about public education today. Watch it on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxLaJmygER8

1h 6m
MAY 30

Vol 26 - SCOTUS Punts

On this episode of WonkyFolk, Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace dig into the surprising 4-4 split from the U.S. Supreme Court on the controversial St. Isidore religious charter school case—and what it means for the future of public education, church-state boundaries, and the charter movement. They also explore big-picture trends reshaping education, from the erosion of academic rigor in K-12 to the political dynamics behind school funding, college value, and the explosion of school choice across the country. Plus, a deep dive into Steven Wilson’s new book on merit, equity, and excellence in education—and why it may signal a turning point for liberal education reformers. 👉 Topics include: Why the SCOTUS tie wasn’t just procedural—it was a signalThe evolving politics of school choice and teacher pay in red statesAre we underestimating the college-for-all backlash?Virtual schooling and its quiet but growing policy momentumWhy merit still matters—and what Democrats risk by abandoning it 📝 Show notes include: Steven Wilson’s bookChad Aldeman on jobsEduwonk (Andy's blog) post on books4-4 Drummond decision Mark Walsh and Andy on SCOTUS cases The National Alliance’s standout amicus briefJed and Starlee's conversation Texas virtual bill Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and leave a review—every little bit helps us keep it wonky.

52 min
MAY 8

Vol 25 - The Boys Speculate Wildly

In this episode of WonkyFolk, Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham do what they do best—speculate wildly about the forces disrupting public education today and what might lie ahead. Prompted by Marlon Marshall’s recent insight on the need to “make progress amid the disruption,” the boys take on some of the biggest questions facing schools and policymakers right now. Will the St. Isidore Supreme Court case redefine what it means to be a public school? Could religious charter schools become a new frontier—or a new fault line—in education policy? What happens when AI enters the classroom faster than we’re ready for? And will federal funding keep pace with an increasingly decentralized education landscape? As always, Jed and Andy mix sharp analysis with insider perspective, offering a candid and occasionally irreverent take on where things stand and where they could be headed. Whether you’re a charter school leader, policy wonk, or just trying to make sense of the headlines, this episode delivers insights, laughs, and a few eyebrow-raising predictions. Takeaways: In this episode, we discuss the implications of the Supreme Court case regarding AI's role in education advocacy and school funding. We reflect on the challenges faced by school districts amid budget constraints and the increasing complexity of educational policies. The conversation emphasizes the need for education advocates to navigate the evolving landscape of technology and its impact on learning outcomes. We explore the potential consequences of the SCOTUS ruling on charter schools and the broader educational landscape across the United States. As we analyze the current state of education funding, we highlight the critical importance of maintaining equitable resources for all students. Finally, we express cautious optimism about the role of artificial intelligence as a transformative tool in education, while acknowledging the challenges ahead. Notes: Article from The Dispatch on SCOTUS decision on charter schools: https://thedispatch.com/article/supreme-court-religious-charter-schools/ EduWonk on SCOTUS: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/wednesdays-department-of-education US News on the changing role of States in education: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/knowledge-bank/2015/12/10/new-education-law-is-bad-news-for-accountability

1h 3m
MAR 27

Vol 24 - Not All is Lost (Just Some)

Andy and Jed talk about the evolving landscape of education policy and its implications for both K-12 and higher education. They discuss recent developments, the complexities introduced by political dynamics and regulatory changes, the challenges faced by educational institutions, the impact of immigration on the workforce, and the necessity for reform in response to society's shifting needs. Jed and Andy also explore the potential consequences of the Supreme Court's decisions on charter schools and the broader implications for educational equity and access. Ultimately, they assert the importance of fostering resilient educational systems that can adapt effectively to the demands of an ever-changing world. They wrap things up by wondering what kind of swag they should give listeners. What's your vote? Takeaways: The conversation between Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace delves into the complexities surrounding higher education and charter schools. Both speakers express concern over the current state of higher education, emphasizing the need for a reevaluation of its economic model. Rotherham highlights the troubling dependency of higher education institutions on federal funding and its implications for autonomy. Wallace shares a poignant story about former students overcoming challenges, illustrating the transformative power of education in the face of adversity. Notes: Dana Goldstein at NYT on college for all:BPC Commission on the American WorkforceEmily Yoffe at the Atlantic about Race and Sexual Assault Cases on College CampusesEducation at Economic Mobility - Ron Haskins at Brookings.Eduwonk on the Trump EO eventKlein's interview with David Shor at the NYT about post-election polling.Abundance book by Klein and Thompsona...

59 min

5

out of 5

3 Ratings

WonkyFolk is a discussion series between Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace intended to provide an informative and engaging forum where education reformers can grapple with tough issues related to our shared quest to improve public education in our country.

Creator

CharterFolk
Years Active

2023 - 2025
Episodes

31
Rating

Clean
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© Copyright 2025 CharterFolk
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