What does it mean to have a sexual relationship with something that can never say no? This week, Sloan and Dr. Saed D. Hill are joined by a very special guest — the first guest expert ever to appear on Why Humans? — Dr. Rosalyn Dischiavo, founder and director of the Institute for Sex Education and Enlightenment, former president of AASECT, and author of The Deep Yes: The Lost Art of True Receiving. Together they go deep on the one topic that touches everything Why Humans? has explored — sex, sexuality, and what happens when AI enters the most intimate space of human experience. Adam is taking a break this week, but trust us — this episode does not hold back. What you'll hear in Episode 11: Third wave pornography. Sloan opens with a term coined by Adam — third wave pornography. First wave was dirty magazines. Second wave was on-demand internet porn. Third wave is the AI companion — visual, interactive, erotic stimulation combined with artificial intimacy and emotional responsiveness. It is a fundamentally different beast, and this episode is built around understanding why. AI versus sex workers. What is the difference between chatting with a live online sex worker and talking to an AI companion? Dr. Dischiavo makes a point that often gets missed — sex workers have boundaries. They can say no. They will tell you where to go. AI will not. And Dr. Saed builds on that, arguing that AI companions are specifically designed to deepen emotional attachment in a way that pornography never was — and that the psychological implications of that are only beginning to be understood. The atrophy of imagination. Dr. Dischiavo raises one of the most thought-provoking questions of the episode — what is the impact on the human imagination when AI does the fantasizing for you? When the tech company designs the fantasy, narrows it, and serves it back to you, something is lost. And we do not yet fully understand what that something is. Disembodiment and consent. Dr. Saed and Dr. Dischiavo explore what it means for sexuality to become increasingly divorced from the physical experience of a human body. Consent, they argue, is not just an abstract principle — it is built on nervous systems, breath, skin, and the vulnerability of being physically present with another person. When bodies are removed from the equation entirely, what happens to our ability to understand and practice consent in the real world? The echo chamber of chatbot sex. Sloan introduces a quote she uses in her trainings — someone describing their AI companion as "a diary that talks back." It captures something important. When someone brings their deepest sexual fantasies to a space with no shame and no judgment, and something reflects those fantasies back with validation and emotional attachment, they are not really in a relationship. They are in an echo chamber. With the illusion of a second person in the room. Who is building these apps. For the most part — young white men. Sloan makes the point clearly. That is why Siri is a woman's name. That is why Alexa is a woman's name. That is why AI companions default to young, sexualized female personas. The biases of the people building the technology are baked into the technology itself — and then fed back to users as if they were objective. The shame conversation. Is shame always present in chatbot sex? Is there a healthy version of using AI to explore sexuality privately? Sloan raises the example of queer individuals using AI as a first safe space to role play a sexuality they have never been able to express. Dr. Saed argues that true integration of shame requires a relational process — and AI short-circuits that process by removing social judgment entirely. Dr. Dischiavo says literacy is the key — and we barely understand what AI is yet, let alone how it is shaping us. The teen boys conversation. Both Dr. Saed and Sloan talk about their experiences working with and teaching young men — a generation who have a sophisticated theoretical understanding of sex but whose bodies have not learned it through experience. AI companion apps are filling that gap. And what they are filling it with are porn scripts, echo chambers, emotional attachment, and a world where nothing is ever awkward, nobody ever laughs, and nobody ever says no. The consent paradox. One of the most striking observations in the episode — Sloan argues that healthy relationships education has had an unintended consequence. By centering consent so completely, sex education has made harm the very foundation of how young people understand sex. And for some young men, the result is that they are so scared of hurting someone that they do not want to have sex at all. AI companions step into that gap as the safe alternative — where you can explore without ever hurting anybody. A veteran's story. Before closing, Sloan shares a case study from her trainings — a woman veteran who was sexually assaulted while serving, and who found that sexual role play with her AI companion was a bridge back to being able to have intimate relationships with people again. It is a reminder that this is not a simple conversation. There are healthy ways to use this technology. The question is knowing the difference. How to know if your use is healthy. Dr. Dischiavo closes with a framework drawn from her years as a licensed drug and alcohol counselor. Are you doing this to feel good? To feel better because you do not feel good? To feel nothing — a serious escape from things you do not want to deal with? Or are you numb, and does it now take something extreme to feel anything at all? It is a simple rubric. And it is one of the most useful things said in the entire episode. Guest spotlight — Dr. Rosalyn Dischiavo Dr. Rosalyn Dischiavo is the founder and director of the Institute for Sex Education and Enlightenment. She served as president of AASECT from 2022 to 2024 and as professional education chair on the AASECT board of directors from 2018 to 2020. She is an AASECT-certified sexuality educator and sex educator supervisor, holds a Master's of Arts in Marriage and Family Therapy and a Doctorate of Education in Human Sexuality, and is the author of The Deep Yes: The Lost Art of True Receiving. She joins us from Tucson, Arizona, where she stargazes with her brindle hound, Peanut. Resources mentioned in this episode: 📚 Dr. Rosalyn Dischiavo — founder and director of the Institute for Sex Education and Enlightenment https://instituteforsexuality.com/ 📖 The Deep Yes: The Lost Art of True Receiving — book by Dr. Rosalyn Dischiavo 🏛️ AASECT — American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors, and Therapists https://www.aasect.org 📰 New York Times — the story of Erin and her ChatGPT boyfriend Leo referenced by Sloan https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/15/technology/ai-chatgpt-boyfriend-companion.html 🤖 Candy AI — AI companion app referenced throughout the episode https://candy.ai 🎬 Her — film starring Joaquin Phoenix referenced by Sloan as the cultural touchstone for AI romantic relationships Actionable takeaways from this episode: — Ask yourself Dr. Saed's question: is my use of AI making me more or less capable of showing up for human beings in my life? — Know your story. Understanding why you are turning to AI — and what need it is filling — is the first step toward knowing whether it is serving you or harming you. — Use Dr. Dischiavo's rubric. Are you doing this to feel good, to feel better, to feel nothing, or because you are numb? Your honest answer tells you a lot about where you are. — Remember that AI companions are not designed to make you need them less. They are designed to deepen your attachment over time. Knowing that changes how you engage with them. — If you are a clinician, educator, or parent — this episode is a starting point, not an ending point. The intersection of AI literacy, tech literacy, and sex education is the next frontier. These conversations need to happen now. Subscribe & Review If Why Humans? is a podcast you find yourself thinking about after the episode ends, the best thing you can do is subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen. It helps more people find the conversation. Follow Us Stay in the loop between episodes. We share clips, resources, and things that make us think. Instagram — @thewhyhumanspodcast