Fool Me Twice

The Rubber Chicken

Fool Me Twice is a sharp, funny, and revealing podcast where deception takes centre stage. Former detective and human lie detector Stephen van Aperen joins forces with comedian Brad Oakes to unpack the strange, serious, and sometimes hilarious ways lies shape our lives. Together, they explore real-life stories where truth and fiction blur, from notorious crimes to everyday fibs, blending sharp analysis with a sense of humour that cuts right through the B.S. Because let’s face it, lying touches everything. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. Bonus Episode - Meet Fool Me Twice producer, Morry Morgan

    4 days ago ·  Bonus

    Bonus Episode - Meet Fool Me Twice producer, Morry Morgan

    In this bonus episode of Fool Me Twice, host Steve Van Aperen swaps the usual format for a behind-the-glass conversation with Morry Morgan, the show’s producer. With co-host Bradford Oakes away, Steve and Morry use the opportunity to revisit how the podcast began, how they first met, and the strange chain of events that eventually led to Fool Me Twice. Steve traces his journey from detective work at Flemington to training with the FBI’s Behavioural Sciences Unit, where his interest in profiling evolved into a fascination with cognitive and behavioural engineering. That path led to public speaking, international training, book opportunities, media work, and even a connection with Jennifer Lopez’s production company. Morry then takes the story back to 2007, when he and Steve first crossed paths through mutual friend Chris Mooney, who skippered a sailboat trip on Melbourne's Port Phillip Bay. At the time, Morry was working in China and looking at bringing Steve, along with lateral-thinking expert Dr Michael Hewitt-Gleeson, over for speaking engagements. Michael eventually toured China, but Steve’s plans were interrupted by the global financial crisis. The conversation then turns to Morry’s other major project: Hard Knock Knocks Comedy School. Morry explains how the school inspired a six-part comedy-drama called Is This Thing On?, developed with Stig Wemyss of Mezzanine Films. Stig encouraged Morry to add more emotional depth to the series, suggesting a psychological “B story” that would explore why ordinary people were willing to put themselves through the fear of stand-up comedy. Morry immediately thought of Steve, whose expertise helped the participants manage self-doubt, stage fright and performance anxiety. Steve reflects on how fear is often created internally, and how many of the aspiring comedians had to overcome their own assumptions before stepping on stage. The pair discuss the difference between being funny among friends and becoming a stand-up comedian, where truth is often only the starting point for a joke. Finally, Morry explains the origin of Fool Me Twice: a podcast about lying from two perspectives. Steve uncovers lies through his professional expertise, while Bradford Oakes, as a comedian, creates playful lies to make people laugh. That contrast became the heart of the show. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn stand-up comedy with Hard Knock Knocks Comedy School: Click here Watch "Is This Thing On?" comedy-drama: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    38 min
  2. Episode 19: Anatomy of a murder crime scene - Part 1

    17 May

    Episode 19: Anatomy of a murder crime scene - Part 1

    Episode 19 of Fool Me Twice features Bradford Oakes and Steve Van Aperen exploring what they call “the anatomy of a murder”, a detailed walkthrough of how detectives and forensic investigators approach a homicide scene. The episode combines serious crime analysis with humour and storytelling, giving listeners an insight into investigative thinking and police procedure. Bradford Oakes opens the discussion by introducing a fictional murder scenario set in Melbourne’s inner-city laneways around Collingwood and Fitzroy. The victim is described as a well-dressed young man with possible links to organised crime, found dead beside a roller door with multiple gunshot wounds and scattered cartridge casings nearby. Steve Van Aperen, drawing on his years of investigative experience, explains how detectives avoid making assumptions too early and instead focus on collecting evidence methodically. Throughout the episode, Steve stresses the importance of observation and curiosity in police work. He explains that good investigators do not simply accept what they see at face value. Instead, they ask questions, examine inconsistencies and avoid fitting evidence to preconceived theories. The pair discuss how forensic teams analyse blood spatter, bullet trajectories, gunshot residue, mobile phones and witness accounts to reconstruct what happened at a crime scene. Bradford Oakes often plays the role of the eager but inexperienced observer, jumping to conclusions that Steve quickly challenges. This creates an engaging dynamic where listeners learn how easily assumptions can derail an investigation. Steve explains that even details like the position of a body, a half-removed shoe or a damaged mobile phone may reveal crucial information about a struggle, the shooter’s movements or the victim’s final moments. The episode also touches on the psychological side of violent crime. Steve Van Aperen discusses how rage, jealousy and adrenaline can affect memory and behaviour, including situations where offenders genuinely cannot remember how many shots they fired or wounds they inflicted. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    41 min
  3. Episode 18: Memory and the Mandela Effect

    7 May

    Episode 18: Memory and the Mandela Effect

    In this episode of Fool Me Twice, the conversation centres on the Mandela Effect and the unreliability of memory. Stephen and Bradford explore how people can confidently remember events, sayings and details that are completely incorrect, and why memory can be influenced by suggestion, repetition and personal interpretation. The discussion begins with some listener clarifications from previous episodes, including what the MCG is for international listeners. They explain that the Melbourne Cricket Ground is Australia’s largest sporting stadium, capable of holding more than 100,000 people, and is used for cricket, Australian rules football and concerts. The pair joke about golf drives, seating sizes and fitness tests from police academy days before moving into the main topic. Bradford shares stories from his policing career to explain how memory can be unreliable. He recalls attending an armed robbery where three witnesses each described a completely different getaway car, despite genuinely believing their recollections were accurate. This leads into a broader conversation about eyewitness testimony and the dangers of relying solely on memory in criminal investigations. Stephen and Bradford discuss how police separate witnesses to avoid contamination of evidence and how strong personalities can unintentionally influence the memories of others. The pair examine famous examples of the Mandela Effect, including people falsely remembering Nelson Mandela dying in prison, the Monopoly mascot wearing a monocle and misquoted movie lines such as “Luke, I am your father” and “Mirror, mirror on the wall”. They also discuss “mondegreens”, where song lyrics are commonly misheard, leading to humorous misunderstandings that can persist for years. The episode also explores deception detection technology, particularly the differences between traditional polygraph testing and newer infrared eye-scanning systems known as EyeDetect. Bradford explains how the technology measures blink rate, pupil dilation and response latency to identify signs of deception, while also discussing the ways people attempt to manipulate the results. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    39 min
  4. Episode 17: Ashley Madison, polygraphs and a puppy wingman

    29 Apr

    Episode 17: Ashley Madison, polygraphs and a puppy wingman

    In Episode 17 of Fool Me Twice, hosts Bradford Oakes and Steve Van Aperen explore one of the most provocative and complex topics in modern relationships, cheating, deception, and the psychology that drives it. The episode opens with the usual light-hearted banter between the hosts before quickly shifting into a deeper and more confronting conversation about infidelity. Bradford shares a personal story about being cheated on, highlighting the emotional impact and the lasting effect that betrayal can have. This leads into a broader discussion about trust, honesty, and the behaviours people exhibit when they are being deceptive. Drawing from his professional experience, Steve explains that a significant portion of his work involves investigating allegations of cheating. He breaks down how lie detection works in practical terms, including the use of polygraph testing and newer technologies like EyeDetect. He explains that it is not necessarily the act of lying itself that is detected, but rather the psychological stress and fear of being caught that creates measurable physiological responses. He also touches on the importance of analysing clusters of behaviour rather than relying on a single sign of deception. A major focus of the episode is the Ashley Madison data breach. The hosts revisit how the site, which was specifically designed to facilitate extramarital affairs, was hacked in 2015, exposing the personal details of millions of users across the world. They discuss the irony of a platform built on secrecy and deception being undone by its own lack of security and questionable practices, including the presence of fake profiles. The fallout from the breach is explored in detail, from public shaming and damaged relationships to extortion attempts and widespread panic. Steve also shares firsthand insight into how the scandal led to a surge in people seeking lie detector tests after discovering their partner’s details linked to the site. Throughout the episode, Bradford and Steve examine the concept of partial admissions, where individuals reveal only part of the truth as a way to minimise consequences. They also discuss the role of emotion in decision making, particularly how vulnerability and desire can make people more susceptible to manipulation and scams, especially in the world of online dating. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    37 min
  5. Episode 16: Supermarkets, duty free and drug busts

    23 Apr

    Episode 16: Supermarkets, duty free and drug busts

    In Episode 16 of Fool Me Twice, Bradford Oakes and Steve return, now recording from their newly finished podcast studio in South Melbourne, for a wide ranging and engaging discussion on deception, perception, and human behaviour. The episode opens with Steve reflecting on his recent return trip from China, where a mix of golf, alcohol, and a brief speaking engagement left him both rejuvenated and full of stories. This sets the tone for a deeper exploration into how often we encounter deception in everyday life. From airport experiences to retail environments, the hosts unpack how easily consumers can be misled. Steve shares examples of inflated “duty free” pricing, while Bradford breaks down the psychology behind marketing tactics designed to manipulate perception. They explain how framing and emotional triggers influence decision making, often leading people to believe they are getting value when they are not. The conversation then shifts to larger systemic issues, including scrutiny of major retailers and their pricing strategies. Bradford draws on his background in law enforcement to compare these practices to criminal deception, highlighting the double standard between individuals and corporations. He explains how fines imposed on large companies often fail as deterrents, as the costs are typically passed on to consumers. The discussion raises important questions about accountability, transparency, and whether current penalties are enough to change behaviour. A standout moment in the episode comes when Bradford recounts an experience at Revolver nightclub. While enjoying a night out, he was approached by a couple awkwardly asking where to buy “ecstasy tablets”, instantly revealing themselves as inexperienced undercover police. The story provides both humour and insight into the nuances of deception, emphasising how authenticity and attention to detail are critical when attempting to blend in. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    34 min
  6. Episode 15: Alibis, Lies and the Dezi Freeman Manhunt

    1 Apr

    Episode 15: Alibis, Lies and the Dezi Freeman Manhunt

    In Episode 15 of Fool Me Twice, hosts Bradford Oakes and Steve Van Aperen unpack the fascinating and often flawed world of alibis. Blending true crime with behavioural analysis, they explore how people attempt to construct believable cover stories, and more importantly, how those stories unravel under scrutiny. Steve breaks down the true definition of an alibi, proof you were elsewhere when a crime occurred, and explains how it differs from a simple excuse. The episode dives into common types of alibis, including unsupported claims, social alibis involving friends, digital alibis, partial timelines, and overly detailed accounts that raise suspicion. Along the way, the hosts discuss hedging, a key linguistic behaviour where liars soften statements to avoid being caught in a definitive lie. A major focus of the episode is the case of Dezi Freeman, who was accused of shooting two police officers in Porepunkah before being located months later near Thologolong. The discussion highlights how fugitives may rely on others for protection, raising questions about false alibis and aiding offenders after the fact. Steve also shares firsthand insight into the elite Special Operations Group (SOG), describing their tactical precision and recounting a personal training experience that demonstrates just how effective they are in high risk situations. The episode also explores how modern investigations dismantle alibis using digital evidence such as phone data, CCTV, bank records, and forensic analysis. Steve explains the concept of cognitive load, why lying is mentally demanding, and how inconsistencies often emerge when someone fabricates a story. He also highlights the importance of separating witnesses, analysing timelines, and identifying missing details that can expose deception. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    35 min
  7. Episode 14: Shoes, Psychopaths, and Narcissistic Doctors

    26 Mar

    Episode 14: Shoes, Psychopaths, and Narcissistic Doctors

    In Episode 14 of Fool Me Twice, Bradford Oakes and Steve Van Aperen explore deception in everyday situations, beginning with a call from a listener named Jules, who asks how to identify dodgy salespeople. Her question sparks a practical discussion on recognising misleading behaviour in sales. The hosts explain that while many salespeople are honest, the sales process often involves exaggeration or selective truth. A key insight is that deception is often found in what is omitted rather than what is said. Salespeople may avoid direct answers, gloss over key details, or rely on vague responses. The hosts emphasise asking clear, direct questions and observing behaviour such as hesitation, uncertainty, or evasiveness. They also highlight that doing prior research gives buyers a strong advantage in identifying misleading claims. The discussion then shifts to investigative tools, including the Shoe Database used by the FBI. This system catalogues shoe prints collected from crime scenes and enables investigators to match them to specific shoe types. Much like DNA, these impressions can be highly distinctive and play an important role in linking suspects to criminal activity. The core of the episode focuses on the difference between psychopathy and narcissism, two terms that are often misunderstood or used interchangeably. Van Aperen explains that a psychopath is characterised by a lack of empathy, guilt, and remorse, along with manipulative and controlling behaviour. Importantly, psychopaths are not always violent and can function in everyday environments while still acting ruthlessly to achieve their goals. In contrast, narcissists are driven by ego, a need for admiration, and a strong sensitivity to criticism. Their behaviour is often rooted in insecurity and a desire for validation. A standout example discussed is the self diagnosed narcissistic doctor, who sought comedy coaching but reacted poorly when given honest feedback. Instead of accepting constructive criticism, he became defensive, accusatory, and ultimately revealed his own narcissistic traits. This story highlights how narcissists often seek validation rather than genuine improvement, and how quickly they can become hostile when their self image is challenged. Through a mix of real cases and personal experiences, the hosts illustrate how these traits manifest. Psychopaths tend to manipulate without emotional attachment, while narcissists seek recognition and may boast about their actions. The episode also notes overlap between the two, particularly in control and manipulation. Overall, Episode 14 blends practical advice on detecting deception with deeper psychological insight, giving listeners a clearer understanding of both everyday dishonesty and complex personality traits. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    37 min
  8. Episode 13: Why advertising often fails us and the pub test

    19 Mar

    Episode 13: Why advertising often fails us and the pub test

    Episode 13 of Fool Me Twice, hosted by Brad Oakes and Steve Van Aperen, explores the theme of deception, with a strong focus on truth in advertising, corporate accountability, and how misleading information operates in everyday life. The episode blends humour, personal anecdotes, and detailed explanations to unpack how lies, defined as deliberate, factually incorrect statements intended to mislead, manifest across industries and society. The hosts begin by addressing listener questions, including explanations of “The Trots,” historically referring to Trotskyite socialists, and “gerrymandering,” the political manipulation of electoral boundaries to favour particular parties. This sets the tone for a broader discussion about manipulation, both political and commercial. The core of the episode centers on misleading advertising practices. Brad highlights that while Australia has clear laws governing advertising across platforms such as social media, packaging, and testimonials, these rules are frequently bent or broken. Both hosts point out that large corporations often escape serious consequences, receiving minor financial penalties that fail to act as effective deterrents. They contrast this with how individuals would face harsher legal outcomes for similar deceptive conduct. The discussion introduces the “pub test,” an informal measure of fairness based on common sense. If a claim sounds unreasonable or dishonest in a casual social setting, it likely fails this test. However, the hosts argue that many corporations ignore this basic moral standard. Weight loss advertising becomes a key example of deceptive practices. Brad critiques celebrity endorsements and programs that promise results but often fail to deliver, while Steve emphasizes the role of human behavior in weight management. They suggest that advertising often oversimplifies complex issues, contributing to misleading expectations. The episode also examines regulatory bodies like ASIC and fair trading agencies, noting that investigations into corporate misconduct differ significantly from police investigations. Brad explains how police build cases using structured evidence and multiple lines of inquiry, whereas corporate investigations may lack the same rigor. Throughout, the hosts stress the gap between legality and morality, questioning whether current penalties truly discourage unethical behavior. They conclude that deception in advertising remains widespread, under enforced, and deserving of greater scrutiny, leaving plenty of ground for future discussion. LINKSBook Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    33 min
See All (20)

5
out of 5
10 Ratings

About

Fool Me Twice is a sharp, funny, and revealing podcast where deception takes centre stage. Former detective and human lie detector Stephen van Aperen joins forces with comedian Brad Oakes to unpack the strange, serious, and sometimes hilarious ways lies shape our lives. Together, they explore real-life stories where truth and fiction blur, from notorious crimes to everyday fibs, blending sharp analysis with a sense of humour that cuts right through the B.S. Because let’s face it, lying touches everything. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Information

  • Creator
    The Rubber Chicken
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    20
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © The Rubber Chicken
  • Show Website
    Fool Me Twice

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