Judgemental - a psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar

Greg Smith and Kate Connors

An analysis of all things psychosocial risk, from psychological studies to legal proceedings and case law.

  1. Workplace Investigations and Safe Systems of Work

    27 APR

    Workplace Investigations and Safe Systems of Work

    Kate and Greg return to their virtual bar stools for their first legal decision discussion of series 3—this time tackling workplace investigations.  Using the recent Department of Education NSW v SafeWork NSW decision as the backdrop, they unpack how timeliness, communication and the allocation of alternate duties during investigations are factors requiring employers design and focus. The context is sobering as the matter was prompted by a prolonged investigation that culminated in a worker’s attempted suicide. Kate and Greg unpack why timeliness, transparency, and procedural fairness are not just administrative issues but deeply human ones. As usual, a key thread throughout the episode is the distinction between process and outcome and whether employers have fit for purpose systems to assess risk, allocate alternative duties, and monitor investigations.  Along the way, they question knee jerk formal investigations, and argue for earlier and more “human centred” options, that might actually be helpful not harmful.   Heavy topic, sharp insights, a splash of humour—and a clear warning: leave people waiting for too long, and the consequences can be catastrophic. The episode closes with practical takeaways for employers: Re-examine what truly needs a formal investigation. Treat investigation processes as psychosocial hazards in their own right. Monitor timeliness and human impact, not just compliance. Build advisory capability and case management approaches. Never underestimate the potential for catastrophic harm when people are left in prolonged organisational limbo.   Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate Connors LinkedIn – Greg Smith LinkedIn – EML Resources: Industrial Relations Commission, New South Wales: DoE v SafeWork NSW Industrial Relations Commission, New South Wales: Killen v SafeWork NSW and NSW Rural Fire Service Elemental Psychology & Coaching  website Greg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper Safe EML website EML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/ Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar Spotify Apple Amazon Youtube Be sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness. The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​ Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

    51 min
  2. Psychosocial Regulations in Victoria: Three months in (A real case study in a real bar!)

    31 MAR

    Psychosocial Regulations in Victoria: Three months in (A real case study in a real bar!)

    In this very special episode, Kate and Greg have literally walked into a bar. Tune in to the team’s firstever live podcast, recorded in a Melbourne bar and in front of an audience (and yes, drinks were involved). They’re joined by Catherine Jeffries, Director of Health, Safety & Wellbeing at Monash Health, who shares practical, frontline insights into leading a psychosocial risk management strategy within one of Victoria’s largest and most complex organisations. Together, they unpack what it really looks like to operate under Victoria’s psychosocial regulations—three months on. (And yes, Victoria was the final piece of the national regulatory puzzle. Kate would like it on the record that this was absolutely not her fault, despite Greg’s ongoing suggestions.) In this two-part episode, the team kicks off with the Monash Health case study, which takes listeners through a series of twists and turns: maintaining employee privacy in complaints and investigations, sharing aggregate data across internal teams, leveraging digital platforms for consultation and risk assessment, and—most controversially—the use of green, amber, and red risk rating matrices, and the potential implications they pose for WHS prosecution defence. In part two, Kate and Greg tackle when organisations should consider engaging psychosocial risk consultants, with CoPilot offering a few unsolicited thoughts of its own—before handing things over to a lively, audience driven Q&A. It’s practical, provocative, and a little chaotic. Settle in, grab your drink of choice, and enjoy the mayhem that is psychosocial risk. Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate Connors LinkedIn – Greg Smith LinkedIn – EML Resources: Elemental Psychology & Coaching  website Greg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper Safe EML website EML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/ Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar Spotify Apple Amazon Youtube Be sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness. The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​ Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

    1hr 8min
  3. A deep dive: What do the NSW Workers Compensation Reforms mean for workplaces?

    16/12/2025

    A deep dive: What do the NSW Workers Compensation Reforms mean for workplaces?

    On 18 November 2025, the most significant changes to the NSW workers compensation scheme in over a decade were announced. In this special episode of Judgemental, Kate and Greg sit down with Gillian, Legal Manager for EML, to unpack what these reforms mean for businesses and employees in NSW. The discussion dives into the core focus of the reforms - psychological injury claims, which have surged in recent years and increased scheme costs. Gillian explains why these changes were necessary and what practical impacts they will have for workplaces and the claims process. The discussion shapes up to cover the intersection of workers compensation legislation to WHS and employment law, and of course, psychosocial risk management.  Grab a drink of choice and join Kate, Greg and Gillian to understand what these reforms will mean both directly and indirectly for NSW workplaces. Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate ConnorsLinkedIn – Greg SmithLinkedIn – EMLResources: EML NSW Employer Webinar on the legislative changesNSW Parliament – Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment Bill 2025Elemental Psychology & Coaching  websiteGreg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper SafeEML websiteEML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/ Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar SpotifyAppleAmazonYoutubeBe sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness. The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​ Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

    48 min
  4. When idiosyncratic is deemed unreasonable – a discussion on beliefs, bullying and organisational justice

    18/11/2025

    When idiosyncratic is deemed unreasonable – a discussion on beliefs, bullying and organisational justice

    In the final episode of Series 2, Kate and Greg settle into their metaphorical bar stools with cocktails in hand to unpack a recent Fair Work Commission decision that, while legally unremarkable, opens up a typically rich and thought provoking conversation. The case involves a worker placed on a performance management plan, who later lodged an anti-bullying application. Though the Commission found no bullying, it did note the applicant’s “idiosyncratic personalised belief system” – prompting Kate & Greg to consider the limited number of circumstances where such phrasing isn’t open to appeal.     As always, the episode is equal parts sharp analysis and warm banter with both Kate and Greg naming their favourite conversations from Series 2. Which was yours?   Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate ConnorsLinkedIn – Greg SmithLinkedIn – EMLLinkedIn – Mutual Benefits Program  Articles: Fair Work Commision decision – available here  Resources: Elemental Psychology & Coaching  websiteGreg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper SafeEML websiteEML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/  Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar SpotifyAppleAmazonYoutubeBe sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness. The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​ Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

    46 min
  5. An emerging landscape – When psychosocial risk intersects with constructive dismissal

    28/10/2025

    An emerging landscape – When psychosocial risk intersects with constructive dismissal

    In this episode, Kate and Greg dive into a recent Fair Work Commission case that brings psychosocial risk management and constructive dismissal into sharp focus. Their conversation once again explores the complex landscape of psychosocial hazards, with particular attention to sexual harassment and organisational justice. The case provides a timely opportunity for Greg to unpack the concept of constructive dismissal—a specific form of unfair dismissal—and explain the emerging implications for employers as a distinct employment risk separate, yet as always closely connected to, their workplace health & safety risks.   Kate and Greg also examine internal investigation processes, which are central to how organisational justice is experienced. Recognising these investigations as pivotal “moments that matter,” they ponder a critical question: Why isn’t organisational justice more prominently featured as a critical risk on workplace risk registers? The episode touches on key themes such as confidentiality, workforce consultation, and the importance of clear, consistent, and transparent communication during internal investigations. The conversation reinforces that these elements are essential to fostering a sense of safety and fairness in the workplace. As always, Kate and Greg bring their signature insight and candour to another engaging bar-side chat. Grab a drink, get comfy and listen in!   Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate ConnorsLinkedIn – Greg SmithLinkedIn – EMLLinkedIn – Mutual Benefits Program  Articles: Fair Work Act Decision – s394 – Unfair dismiss  Resources: Elemental Psychology & Coaching  websiteGreg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper SafeEML websiteEML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/  Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar SpotifyAppleAmazonYoutubeBe sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness. The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​ Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

    57 min
  6. Inside the minds of Australia’s workplaces

    10/10/2025

    Inside the minds of Australia’s workplaces

    In a Judgemental first – Kate and Greg are in the same location as they sit down with Keith Govias, Workplace Safety & Risk Principal for EML and dive inside the minds of Australia’s Workplaces. Mental health conditions now account for an increasing proportion of workers compensation and personal injury claims across the country. To better understand the landscape, EML commissioned research conducted by Monash University’s Healthy Working Lives Research Group. By analysing four major national data sets across workers (those with compensation claims, and those with mental health-related claims), the paper delivers important insights psychosocial risk management.  Grab a drink of choice and join Kate, Greg and Keith to unpack the research – which offers more than just insights - it’s a clear call to action.     Connect with us: LinkedIn – Keith Govias LinkedIn – Kate ConnorsLinkedIn – Greg SmithLinkedIn – EMLLinkedIn – Mutual Benefits Program  Resources: Elemental Psychology & Coaching  websiteGreg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper SafeEML websiteEML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/  Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar SpotifyAppleAmazonYoutubeBe sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness. The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​ Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

    48 min
  7. Mitigating vicarious trauma – in conversation with Amy Nicholas

    27/06/2025

    Mitigating vicarious trauma – in conversation with Amy Nicholas

    Each year, the month of June is dedicated to increasing public knowledge about PTSD, a condition that can arise from various traumatic experiences, not just combat or obvious traumatic events. In this episode of the Judgemental Podcast, Kate and Greg recognise PTSD Awareness month by delving into the complexity of vicarious trauma – one of the twelve psychosocial risks.  To help navigate this important conversation, they’re joined in the virtual bar by Amy Nicholas, author of the 2023 Churchill Fellowship-sponsored report, “Mitigating Vicarious Trauma: Adopting an Occupational Safety Approach.” Amy’s groundbreaking work draws on insights from leading global practitioners and academics who are dedicated to understanding, preventing, and responding to the harm associated with exposure to traumatic content. Together, Kate, Greg, and Amy unpack the report’s key findings, including: • The distinct “pathways” through which vicarious trauma can cause harm • The protective factors that organisations must intentionally design for • Practical work design controls and real-world case studies that offer hope and direction As always, there’s a moment for the legal lens to come into focus—this time exploring the evolving landscape of codes of practice, regulation, and legislation surrounding psychosocial hazards in the workplace. So whether you're sipping a hot chocolate, a calming tea, or something a little stronger, pull up a seat in the virtual bar and join Kate, Greg, and Amy for a thoughtful, timely, and important conversation.     Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate ConnorsLinkedIn – Greg SmithLinkedIn – Amy NicolasLinkedIn – EMLLinkedIn – Mutual Benefits Program  Resources: Mitigating vicarious trauma: adopting an occupational safety approachSafeWork NSW v Marist Youth Care Limited [2024] NSWDC74Elemental Psychology & Coaching  websiteGreg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper SafeEML websiteEML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/  Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar SpotifyAppleAmazonYoutubeBe sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness. The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​ Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

    1hr 1min
  8. Reasonable management action within workers compensation systems

    24/06/2025

    Reasonable management action within workers compensation systems

    In the third and final episode of the reasonable management action deep dive, the Judgemental team are joined by Erica Thuijs, Greg’s colleague and an expert in employer’s liability and workers compensation.  In this episode, Erica, Kate and Greg take the discussion straight into the workplace to explore the nuances of the various workers compensation jurisdictions in Australia, whilst examining the key considerations for employers. Concepts such as ‘reasonableness’, ‘fairness’ and ‘harshness’ are reviewed from a multitude of angles – encompassing legal, psychological and safety considerations for the workplace. With the varied and somewhat opposing legal vs psychological frameworks in the mix, it’s another episode designed to nurture ponderings and reflections in the wonderful world of psychosocial risk.   Grab a drink and join Kate, Greg and Erica at the bar.     Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate ConnorsLinkedIn – Greg SmithLinkedIn – Erica ThijsLinkedIn – EMLLinkedIn – Mutual Benefits Program  Resources: District court of Western Australia, Suleski -v- Pilbara Iron Company (Services) Pty Ltd, 17 August 2018High Court of Australia, Comcare v Martin [2016] HCA 43 (9 November 2016)Livingston, Jackson & Priestley (2021) Root causes analysis: Literature reviewDr Ivan Pupulidy and Crista Vesel -  Human and Organisational PotentialElemental Psychology & Coaching  websiteGreg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper SafeEML websiteEML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/  Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar SpotifyAppleAmazonYoutubeBe sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness. The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​ Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

    1 hr

Ratings & Reviews

4.4
out of 5
14 Ratings

About

An analysis of all things psychosocial risk, from psychological studies to legal proceedings and case law.

You Might Also Like