Professionally Challenged

Parkins Lane & Toro Digital

Professionally Challenged is the insider’s guide to the changes currently happening in the legal industry. Hosted by Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital, we interview the business leaders from law firms, legal groups, legal tech, NewLaw businesses and advisors to the industry.

Episodes

  1. Build in a routine to make BD work as important as your client work

    03/12/2019

    Build in a routine to make BD work as important as your client work

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Alistair Marshall, Director at Professional Services Business Development. We discuss: Whether you’re an experienced practitioner or a lawyer starting out, how do you define your target market?  As a starting point, Alistair recommends an audit on revenue and profit, work type, clients, sectors, geography, client issues. Passion and enjoyment should also be a factor as well as a drive to immerse yourself into your clients world, understand their business, industry, regulatory requirements, etc. The 3 pillars to promote yourself as an expert in your area: Speaking - including good speaker etiquette and a robust CTA/follow up plan Writing Networking (online and offline) Don’t be shy about putting your questions on the table with a client/prospect, literally. Alistair discusses the importance of being prepared when heading into a warm meeting: Do your homework and have questions prepared to guide/prompt the conversation. What’s the objective of the meeting? What’s your expectation?  What’s your value-add? What are you offering that is unique, for example, research, insight, information, etc? Don’t give a history lesson about you/the firm. Let the client do most of the talking - this is a discovery meeting. How to build a BD routine into your week: 2 hours minimum Block out time on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday Focus on and create strategy around: 5 existing clients 5 prospect clients that fit your ‘perfect’ client model 5 referrers Alistair’s top 3 poor uses of marketing & BD budget that have very poor ROI and engagement, especially for attracting new/prospective clients: Brand advertising Sponsorship Hospitality events (private rooms at football, cricket, etc) Connect with Alistair On LinkedIn https://au.linkedin.com/in/alistairmarshall1967 Professional Service Business Development website https://www.professionalservicesbd.com.au/ Email Alistair apm@professionalservicesbd.com.au   Resources To receive Alistair’ ebook, "10 immediate actions to generate revenue & cash," head to the footer on his website and sign up. https://www.professionalservicesbd.com.au/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    44 min
  2. Playing the long game to win a bid or tender

    19/11/2019

    Playing the long game to win a bid or tender

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Amy Burton-Bradley, Consulting Director at Julian Midwinter. We discuss: Should you always say ‘yes’ to a RFP/RFT? Amy outlines the key factors that need to be considered before engaging resources to develop a reply: Is there an existing relationship?  Does it aligns to firm’s strategy and core business? How to use the first 48 hours of receiving an RFP/RFT to determine whether the firm prepares a response: Set up a 30min meeting with key internal stakeholders. Circulate the request and ensure parties read it prior to the meeting. Complete a Bid/No Bid checklist. In the meeting, share information/intel about the client: relationships, incumbents and assign responsibilities for preparing the response. Capture replies and reasoning as to why/why not to proceed. How to decline a RFP/RFT. Elements of a reply: How to standout in the Executive Summary What ‘value adds’ are actually valuable to a client and how to up the ante, and  Can alternative/creative pricing really set you apart from the next firm?  How much impact does the procurement team play in assessing and assigning panel firms? And why you should always - win or lose - ask for a debrief and conduct an internal meeting. You’ve won - wohoo! Understanding appropriate ways to get to know the client better and get a fair (greater) share of the work. Connect with Amy:   On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/amyburtonbradley/ Julian Midwinter website https://www.julianmidwinter.com.au/profile/amy-burton-bradley/ Email Amy mailto:abb@julianmidwinter.com.au   Resources mentioned: 20 question bid or no bid assessment checklist https://www.julianmidwinter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/jma-bid-no-bid-checklist.pdf Tender and bid debriefing guide for internal teams https://www.julianmidwinter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/jma-tender-and-bid-debriefing-guide-internal-teams.pdf   Blogs mentioned: Why firms keep bidding on losers and what you can do about it https://www.julianmidwinter.com.au/2019/03/why-firms-keep-bidding-on-losers-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/ How to run a kick-off meeting for your tender, bid or proposal https://www.julianmidwinter.com.au/2019/05/how-to-run-a-kick-off-meeting-for-your-tender-bid-or-proposal/ Same-same, but different – Best practice for recycling boilerplate tender, bid & proposal content https://www.julianmidwinter.com.au/2017/12/same-same-but-different-best-practice-for-recycling-boilerplate-tender-bid-proposal-content/ Leveraging a tender or bid win to get more than your fair share https://www.julianmidwinter.com.au/2018/05/leveraging-a-tender-bid-or-proposal-win-get-more-than-your-fair-share/ Tender debriefing with the client https://www.julianmidwinter.com.au/2013/01/tender-debriefing/ Episode Transcript: https://www.professionallychallenged.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    53 min
  3. The Australian legal tech market and how it’s enabling efficiencies for in-house legal teams

    06/11/2019

    The Australian legal tech market and how it’s enabling efficiencies for in-house legal teams

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Jodie Baker, Founder and CEO of Xakia Technologies. We discuss: How legal technology is enabling better process flow and greater efficiencies, especially for in-house counsel to manage workflow. How Xakia came to be and the key elements that enabled it’s growth and more broadly the adoption of legal tech: Cloud computing has allowed smaller teams to access more sophisticated software at a fraction of the price; and  A “do more with less” mentality, especially post-GFC where companies retained a lot of work in-house. Companies today are continually striving for technology to enable efficiencies. Lessons learnt when taking a tech startup global, and the impact of privacy, culture and regulatory constraints. As well as, outsourcing elements of the business that are not core to your service. The growth and global perception of legal tech in Australia and how ALTA (Australian Legal Technology Association) was born out of a desire to build a ‘brand’ and recognition of dedicated legal technology companies in Australia.  The future of ALTA and how legal tech companies can grow their network and business. Connect with Jodie: On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodiebakerxakia/ Xakia Technologies website https://www.xakiatech.com/ Email jodie.baker@xakiatech.com Episode Transcript: https://www.professionallychallenged.com/episodes/the-australian-legal-tech-market/   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    44 min
  4. How to cut through and have your media release picked up by a journalist

    22/10/2019

    How to cut through and have your media release picked up by a journalist

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Ping Chew, Founder of Ping Publicity.   We discuss: Why it’s important to apply Ping’s “so what?” “who cares?” test to remain objective when writing a media release. The benefits of researching the topic/subject matter and journalist to find a better hook. The difference between a pitch and a media release. The key elements to determine ‘newsworthiness’. Also read Ping’s blog, “What does newsworthy mean?” How to structure a media release: Heading: should be no more than 8 words and say exactly what it is about, as simply as possible. 1st and 2nd paragraph: to contain all (and/or relevant) newsworthy elements. Quote: from the main contact / source. 3rd and following paragraph: introduce the person and/or provide any further supporting information. How to structure your email to a journalist: Pitch the story in 8-9 words.  Copy and paste media release into the body of the email. Include a 1 link that contains all additional/supporting material: photographs, research, reports.  Follow up with the journalist 3-5 days after pitching your story. Should you offer exclusivity on your story? Connect with Ping:   On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/pingchew/ Ping Publicity website https://pingpublicity.com.au/ Email ping@pingpublicity.com.au Episode transcript https://www.professionallychallenged.com/episodes/how-to-cut-through-and-have-your-media-release-picked-up-by-a-journalist/   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    38 min
  5. The rise of contract lawyering: making it work for both lawyers and law firms

    08/10/2019

    The rise of contract lawyering: making it work for both lawyers and law firms

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Katherine Thomas, CEO of Free Range Lawyers. We discuss: What is contract lawyering and how Free Range Lawyers is matching the supply (lawyer) and demand (law firm) markets.  External factors that have given rise to contract lawyering: Technological changes/advancements Changing attitudes to work/life Increase buyer choice and the need to find more efficient/creative ways to work Firms reducing their resource cost base by employing contract lawyers to match demand/peak periods Environment, health and well-being  Key psychographic factors and the screening process to ensure a contract lawyer is fit for remote working. How to operate as a team when you have remote/contract lawyers and the most effective ways to onboard/induct a contract lawyer. The responsibilities of being an independent contractor. How Free Range Lawyers creates a sense of belonging with a ‘remote’ community. Connect with Katherine:   On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherinethomas75/ Free Range Lawyer website https://www.freerangelawyers.com/ Email katherine@freerangelawyers.com Episode transcript https://www.professionallychallenged.com/episodes/the-rise-of-contract-lawyering/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    39 min
  6. Can a client relationship be ‘downloaded’ into a CRM?

    25/09/2019

    Can a client relationship be ‘downloaded’ into a CRM?

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Steve Tyndall, Director and Founder of Client Sense & NextLegal. We discuss: How, for three fundamental reasons, CRMs are not designed for lawyers: Human nature: lawyers are not salespeople driven by KPIs and sales funnels Time spent entering data Ownership of client relationships Can a CRM be built/implemented around the firm’s practice management system? Are there pitfalls and missed communication and business development data if you do? The emergence of legal tech providers and how the collaboration between legal tech providers and law firms benefit by identifying and co-developing systems or bespoke solutions to achieve or solve problems. And can one system satisfy the needs for the whole firm? How relationships with the software provider, and in turn acceptance and longevity of a system, hinges on the relationship with the provider; how do you extract value from the legal tech provider? Connect with Steve:   On LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/steventyndall/  Client Sense website - https://clientsense.com/  Email: steven.tyndall@clientsense.com.au See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    43 min
  7. How to conduct a successful client feedback program for your law firm.

    11/09/2019

    How to conduct a successful client feedback program for your law firm.

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Sue-Ella Prodonovich, Principal of Prodonovich Advisory. We discuss: How legal marketing and business development teams can best approach their partners about conducting client listening in their firm. Sue-Ella’s three key considerations when conducting client feedback: timing, choices and format.  How law firms should communicate to clients about the feedback program and who is the best person in the firm to ask the client for feedback. How, through a client interview, marketers can test the effectiveness of the value-adds your firm provides and get ideas from other industries. The circumstances where it may be appropriate to request mid-matter feedback. How to communicate feedback (positive and negative) internally - and to consider the context in which feedback is given when sharing it far and wide. When should firms use an external service provider or internal resource (or both!) for conducting feedback. And finally, for firms that don’t have a client listening program - the best way to get started!   Connect with Sue-Ella:   On LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sueellaprodonovich/ Prodonovich Advisory Website - https://www.prodonovich.com Book: How To Build A Better Practice by Sue-Ella Prodonovich - https://www.prodonovich.com/products/how-to-build-a-better-practice See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    37 min
  8. BD’s role in building relationships with clients and forging partnerships with member organisations

    27/08/2019

    BD’s role in building relationships with clients and forging partnerships with member organisations

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Adriana Giometti,  Chief Marketing & Corporate Relations Officer at Holman Webb. We discuss: Business Development professionals can add value to client relationships by providing a more holistic perspective to a business’ challenges and opportunities. Coaching younger lawyers in networking, building relationships and building an entrepreneurial spirit. How to get the most out of building partnerships with member organisations. Negotiating bespoke sponsorship agreements that help both your law firm and a membership group.  Resources mentioned: Entrepreneurs’ Organization - https://www.eonetwork.org/sydney Association of Corporate Counsel Australia - https://acla.acc.com/ Connect with Adriana:   On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianagiometti/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    22 min
  9. Deconstructing the legal industry, a discussion of the new entrants, substitutes and the growth of in-house counsel with Pier D'Angelo of Allens

    13/08/2019

    Deconstructing the legal industry, a discussion of the new entrants, substitutes and the growth of in-house counsel with Pier D'Angelo of Allens

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital chat with Pier D’Angelo, Chief Strategy Officer of Allens. We discuss: The advantages of law firms creating a specific role that focuses on strategy and its execution. The Big 4 accounting firms entering the legal market, what does it mean for law firms? Is NewLaw going to disrupt incumbent law firms as much as the media write about? The fastest-growing legal segment into the industry – in-house counsel.  How can law firms and corporate counsel work together in the future to create the most mutual value? The downward fee pressure that’s facing commercial law firms, and it’s importance from a procurement perspective. Law firms are still law firms… and they’re still providing great value to their clients.  So what’s next and where is the market moving? Can we actually expect a revolution or will it be incremental changes? Resources mentioned: Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC) - https://cloc.org/ Dual Transformation by Scott D. Anthony, Clark Gilbert, and Mark W. Johnson - https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Transformation-Reposition-Business-Creating/dp/1633692485 Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works by A.G. Lafley and Roger L. Martin - https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X Connect with Pier:   On Allens’ website - https://www.allens.com.au/about/leadership/ On LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pier-d-angelo-cpp-alpp-5395a110/ Episode transcript: https://www.professionallychallenged.com/episodes/ep-002-pier-dangelo-allens-linklaters/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    43 min
  10. Bringing business model innovation to a global law firm with Carolyn Aldous of Peerpoint

    31/07/2019

    Bringing business model innovation to a global law firm with Carolyn Aldous of Peerpoint

    In this episode, Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital are joined by Carolyn Aldous, Managing Director and Co-head of Peerpoint. We discuss: How Peerpoint came to be and how Allen & Overy encourages innovation  Looking outside the industry to develop platform business models and managing supply with demand New business models can help to enhance an offering, as opposed to replacing it Leveraging a global brand and it’s resources to attract clients and talent The technology revolution taking place in in-house legal teams Resources mentioned: Alternative Legal Service Providers 2019 - Fast Growth, Expanding Use and Increasing Opportunity - Thomson Reuters https://legal.thomsonreuters.com/content/dam/ewp-m/documents/legal/en/pdf/reports/alsp-report-final.pdf Westpac gets lawyers to test if it can trust AI bots - Australian Financial Reviewhttps://www.afr.com/technology/technology-companies/westpac-gets-lawyers-to-test-if-it-can-trust-ai-bots-20190520-p51p5k Connect with Carolyn:   On Allen & Overy’s website:  http://www.allenovery.com/people/en-gb/Pages/Carolyn-Aldous.aspx On LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/carolyn-aldous-1013b922 Episode Transcript: https://www.professionallychallenged.com/episodes/ep-001-carolyn-aldous-peerpoint/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    38 min
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Professionally Challenged is the insider’s guide to the changes currently happening in the legal industry. Hosted by Rob Patterson of Parkins Lane and Paul Evans of Toro Digital, we interview the business leaders from law firms, legal groups, legal tech, NewLaw businesses and advisors to the industry.

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  • Creator
    Parkins Lane & Toro Digital
  • Years Active
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  • Episodes
    10
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    Clean
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    © 2026 Parkins Lane & Toro Digital
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