Smarter Marketer

James Lawrence
  • 5.0 (13)
  • MARKETING
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Hosted by James Lawrence - Co-Founder of Rocket Agency and B&T Marketer of the Year finalist, each episode features candid conversations with marketers, leaders and innovators on what’s really working in today’s fast-changing landscape. This is the definitive podcast for Australian Marketers.

  1. From the Archives: Persuasion, Manipulation and Behavioural Psychology: How Consumer Choice is Shaped w. Thinkerbell's Dan Monheit

    16 DEC

    From the Archives: Persuasion, Manipulation and Behavioural Psychology: How Consumer Choice is Shaped w. Thinkerbell's Dan Monheit

    In marketing, there exists a fine line between influencing decisions and crossing into manipulation. The difference? One builds trust while the other erodes it. Host James Lawrence chats with Dan Monheit, Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell and former CEO of creative behavioural science agency HardHat, about applying behavioural science principles like default bias and anchoring to your marketing, related ethical considerations and how to draw the line between persuasion and manipulation. Key Takeaways:Dan’s journey - starting Hardhat and his interest in behavioural scienceIntroduction to behavioural science and it’s connection to marketingWhat are some common behavioural biases you see everyday? -Default bias -Framing -Anchoring -Loss aversion -Effort bias Ethics in persuasion vs manipulationNavigating dark patternsHow context impacts perception and shapes biasesEssential behavioural science resources for marketers Guest:Dan Monheit is a leader in creative behavioural science. In 2005, he founded Hardhat, a pioneering agency that worked with top brands like Mattel, Bega Dairy, the Victorian Government, Kogan, DocuSign and Afterpay. Under his direction, Hardhat became a go-to agency for brands looking to understand and influence consumer behaviour. In October 2024, Hardhat was acquired by Thinkerbell, where Dan now serves as Chief CX Thinker, applying his expertise to elevate customer experiences through a blend of creativity and behavioural insights. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

    49 min
  2. 101. Attribution Is Breaking: How Marketers Should Rethink Paid Media in 2026 w. Rocket Agency's Adrian Oguz

    2 DEC

    101. Attribution Is Breaking: How Marketers Should Rethink Paid Media in 2026 w. Rocket Agency's Adrian Oguz

    As platforms push Performance Max, Advantage+ and new modelling systems, we’re entering a world where results often look better in-platform than they do in reality. Behind the scenes, attribution is becoming harder and marketers are being forced to rethink how they interpret success altogether. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Paid Media Manager, Adrian Oguz, to unpack what truly matters when you’re running paid media in an AI-driven landscape. Adrian shares an unfiltered view on automation, performance loops, the limits of attribution and how in-house marketers can step back and measure what actually drives growth, and not just what looks good on a dashboard. Key Takeaways:Why AI-driven campaign types often optimise toward the easiest conversions, not the most valuable onesHow to recognise when Performance Max has fallen into the “existing customer loop”The hidden risks of lead-gen automation and why spam leads often spike before performance improvesThe simple macro metrics that reveal whether your media is genuinely growing the businessHow channels like YouTube can drive huge results without showing any conversions in-platformWhy creative is becoming the new targeting, especially inside Meta’s evolving ecosystemHow to design tests that prove whether a channel is actually contributing to growthWhen it’s time to scale spend, and when stability matters more than chasing the next tactic Guest:Adrian Oguz is a Paid Media Manager at Rocket Agency, overseeing multi-million-dollar budgets across search, social and programmatic. With his clear, practical approach, he’s led multiple award-winning campaigns for various business types and industries across the APAC Search Awards and SEMrush Awards year after year. You can follow Adrian on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

    44 min
  3. 100. How Attention Is Rewriting the Rules of Advertising w. Amplified's Dr. Karen Nelson-Field

    18 NOV

    100. How Attention Is Rewriting the Rules of Advertising w. Amplified's Dr. Karen Nelson-Field

    Marketers have long optimised for visibility and memory, but in our metric-focused industry, are we measuring what really matters? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence speaks with Dr. Karen Nelson-Field, Founder of Amplified, about why attention is the real currency of modern advertising and how to measure it effectively. From the myth of virality to the flaws in CPMs, Karen shares what years of research reveal about how people truly engage with ads, and what marketers need to do next to stay ahead. Key Takeaways:Dr. Karen’s journey: from academic researcher to founder, shaping the global conversation on attention measurementWhy traditional metrics like reach, impressions and engagement fail to capture real ad effectivenessHow attention measurement works and why it’s revolutionising media planning and buyingThe difference between active, passive and non-attention, and how they impact ROIWhy CPM should stand for “Cost per Meaningless Thousand”How creative and media need to work together for attention to truly convertWhy cheaper ad formats often deliver worse ROI than expectedThe role of AI and synthetic audiences in scaling attention measurementThe future: the unification of creative and media through AI-driven tools Additional resource: The Eye-Watering Cost of Dull Media Guest:Dr. Karen Nelson-Field is a globally recognised researcher and entrepreneur reshaping how marketers think about effectiveness. As the Founder and CEO of Amplified, she leads pioneering work in attention measurement across platforms and formats. A former academic turned industry innovator, Karen’s research has influenced how the world’s biggest brands evaluate advertising performance.  Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

    37 min
  4. 99. Why “In-House vs Agency” Misses the Point w. TrinityP3's Darren Woolley

    4 NOV

    99. Why “In-House vs Agency” Misses the Point w. TrinityP3's Darren Woolley

    As 2025 comes to a close, the conversation around in-housing has never been more confusing. With rising pressures on budgets and the disruption caused by AI, businesses are being forced to rethink what the right marketing structure might look like  for them. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence speaks with Darren Woolley, Founder and Global CEO of Australia’s leading marketing management consultancy TrinityP3. Together they unpack the myths surrounding in-housing and outsourcing, and what research really says about cost, culture, productivity and creativity. Key Takeaways:Why “in-housing vs. agency” is the wrong question to ask and what the right balance looks likeThe hidden costs that make many in-house teams more expensive than expectedHow in-house agencies can fall into creative myopia and how to bring external stimulus back inWhy AI is more than just efficiency: accountability, smarter decision-making, strategic advantage and moreThe three challenges keeping marketers up at night: tighter budgets, proving ROI and keeping pace with changeHow agencies remain indispensable by offering perspective and speed that internal teams can’t easily replicate Guest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director. You can follow Darren on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

    39 min
  5. 98. The Growth of Outdoor Media in Australia w. oOH! Media’s Josh Gurgiel

    21 OCT

    98. The Growth of Outdoor Media in Australia w. oOH! Media’s Josh Gurgiel

    Once thought of as a “traditional” channel, outdoor has once again become one of the most creative and technology-integrated mediums in modern marketing. As audiences move faster and attention gets harder to hold, out-of-home (OOH) continues to prove its staying power. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Josh Gurgiel, Head of Creative at POLY (oOh!media’s content and innovation hub), to unpack how Australia’s largest OOH network is evolving, from the rise of digital formats and AI-driven creative to why simplicity and emotion still sit at the heart of every great campaign. Key Takeaways:Why OOH remains one of the most powerful full-funnel channels, and will continue to beThe creative rules that separate great outdoor work from visual clutterHow motion and real-time creative are reshaping outdoor storytellingWhy consistency and context, not constant reinvention, drive long-term brand resonanceHow brands like Specsavers, McDonald’s and Bankwest are redefining what ‘public space art’ can beWhy static and digital work best together, and what that means for campaign planning in 2026A look ahead: from immersive brand experiences to outdoor as cultural content Guest:Josh Gurgiel is the Head of Creative at POLY, the content and creative innovation hub within oOh!media. With a career spanning creative direction, brand strategy and production, Josh leads the team shaping the next era of OOH innovation. His work with leading Australian and global brands continues to push the boundaries of how creativity, technology and data intersect in public space. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

    42 min
  6. 97. Leadership in Marketing: How Today’s Marketing Leaders are Creating Impact w. Emma Logan

    7 OCT

    97. Leadership in Marketing: How Today’s Marketing Leaders are Creating Impact w. Emma Logan

    What does it really mean to lead marketing in 2025? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with executive brand strategist Emma Logan to unpack the realities facing modern marketing leaders, from blurred job boundaries and rising stakeholder expectations to the personal toll of visibility and performance. Emma shares why every senior marketer already has an “executive brand”, whether they’ve defined it or not, and how failing to own that narrative means letting others do it for you. Together, she and James explore what authentic leadership looks like in a post-pandemic world, how to navigate complexity without burning out, why connection and energy management are not just nice-to-haves and more. Key Takeaways:Emma’s journey - The story behind The Emma Logan ProjectWhy every CMO needs an intentional executive brand and what happens if you don’t define itThe growing complexity of the marketing role: from AI and capability gaps to shifting cultural expectationsHow trust, transparency and delivery underpin influence at the C-suite and board levelNetworking as a leadership superpower: the ROI of connection and communityWhy energy, recovery and self-awareness are becoming critical to sustainable leadership Guest:Emma Logan has spent more than 15 years working across marketing and media in New Zealand, London and Australia, spanning client-side, agency, publisher and not-for-profit roles. She’s partnered with numerous leading brands and marketing talent, bringing a rare 360-degree perspective to the challenges facing today’s leaders. Through The Emma Logan Project, she now runs a “marketer-focused consultancy,” helping CMOs and senior marketing leaders define who they are and how to amplify their impact across their teams and the wider industry. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

    46 min
  7. 96. Buying Outcomes, Not Deliverables: Rethinking Client-Agency Partnerships w. Blair Enns

    23 SEPT

    96. Buying Outcomes, Not Deliverables: Rethinking Client-Agency Partnerships w. Blair Enns

    For decades the agency-client relationship has worked on a transactional view of marketing and creative services. Agencies gave away their best thinking upfront, clients judged on surface-level ideas and both sides accepted a process that often undervalued expertise. In this Smarter Marketer Podcast episode, Host James Lawrence and renowned author Blair Enns discuss how the future of creative and professional services lies in changing how we buy, sell and trust expertise. Whether you’re in-house or agency-side, these shifts carry big implications for how you choose partners and build lasting relationships that drive marketing success. Key Takeaways:Why traditional pitching often undervalues creative work and what it takes to break free from itHow specialisation is the key to differentiation, growth and global reachWhat three-option proposals and value-based pricing reveal about how expertise should really be soldWhy selling is less about the big presentation and more about a series of meaningful conversationsHow AI is fragmenting the market and empowering smaller, more specialised playersWhat in-house marketers can do to unlock more value from their agency partners. Guest:Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organisation for creative and professional services firms. He is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, Pricing Creativity and The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise. Blair is also the co-host of the widely followed 2Bobs podcast. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

    45 min
  8. 95. How to Rank in ChatGPT w. Joe Alder

    9 SEPT

    95. How to Rank in ChatGPT w. Joe Alder

    Ranking in ChatGPT is now one of the most urgent challenges in digital marketing. With millions of Australians using AI search every week, the question for in-house marketers isn’t whether ChatGPT is shaping buyer journeys anymore, it’s how to make sure your brand is visible where and when it matters most.  In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence is joined by Rocket’s Head of SEO, Joe Alder, to unpack the latest research and share practical advice on what it really takes to rank in ChatGPT. Key Takeaways:Why traffic from ChatGPT converts at over 5x the rate of traditional search traffic, and what that means for marketersThe two ways ChatGPT sources information, and how each affects your visibilityThe technical dos and don’ts that determine whether your site can be read by ChatGPTHow to structure copy so it’s more likely to be cited in AI searchThe kinds of content that are consistently favoured in AI responsesWhy authority now means brand mentions, reviews, listicles and awards, not just backlinksThe hard truth about measurement: why click-through rates from ChatGPT are so low, and what you can do to track your traffic from AI search Guest:Joe Alder is the Head of SEO at Rocket Agency, leading all SEO services and projects. With over 8 years of experience, Joe has implemented complex SEO campaigns for B2C, B2B and government organisations, working with notable brands such as Amazon, Qudos, P&O Cruises, PE Nation, Fujitsu and Coates.  Since the launch of ChatGPT, he and his team have been at the frontline of AI search optimisation - running first-hand tests across thousands of queries, analysing data from Australia’s top websites and guiding brands on how to adapt their SEO strategies for an AI-driven future. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

    41 min
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About

Hosted by James Lawrence - Co-Founder of Rocket Agency and B&T Marketer of the Year finalist, each episode features candid conversations with marketers, leaders and innovators on what’s really working in today’s fast-changing landscape. This is the definitive podcast for Australian Marketers.

Information

  • Creator
    James Lawrence
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2025
  • Episodes
    108
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2025 James Lawrence
  • Show Website
    Smarter Marketer

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