Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus

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The Outer Brightness Podcast is an ongoing respectful conversation between friends about their transition out of the LDS Church to faith in Jesus alone for salvation. We don't agree on everything, and that's okay. Join us!

  1. 12/12/2023

    Hope: A Pilgrimage of Memory

    This week, we bring you the first of two Christmas episodes. This one is a reading of a Christmas essay that I (Paul) wrote for my fmaily when I was near the end of my time in the LDS Church. I thought that it would be interesting for me and you (our listeners) to revisit it. In the essay, I reference Jimmy Stewart's masterful acting in Mr. Krueger's Christmas. If you haven't seen that movie, check it out here: https://youtu.be/oonebld1IoE?feature=shared   We hope that you enjoy this episode and your holidays with your friends and family. Merry Christmas!

    54 min

  2. 20/11/2023

    A Different Gospel? Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians for Latter-day Saints (w/ Daniel Ortner)

    This episode, we welcomed Daniel Ortner on the program. Daniel has a very interesting story. He was raised in an ethnically Jewish family and converted to Mormonism. In 2023, he began attending a Christian church with his wife and ended up leaving the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for faith in Christ alone. Daniel is passionate about the Epistle to the Galatians. He joined us to talk about a commentary he wrote about it. We dive deep into the teachings of the apostle Paul contained in that letter. More about Daniel. He is an attorney at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). You can learn more about his work there by clicking here. His blog is Boasting in Christ Alone. An you can find his Galatians commentary that we discuss in this episode here. We liked Daniel so much that we had him back on to debrief a debate he had about the doctrine of Sola Scriptura on the For the Love of God channel. So look forward to that, fireflies!

    1 h y 44 min
  3. Choosing a Church (with Jonathan Stoddard)

    14/11/2023

    Choosing a Church (with Jonathan Stoddard)

    In this episode, we welcome Jonathan Stoddard to Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. Pastor Jon ministers at Jordan Valley Church (Presbyterian Church in America) in West Jordan Utah where I (The Apostate Paul) grew up. He has written a very helpful and accessible book titled, Choosing a Church: A Biblical and Practical Guide aimed at helping those, particularly of an LDS background in navigating finding a new church home after leaving the LDS Faith. We talk with Pastor Jon about his book, why the search for a new church home has some unique challenges for former Latter-day Saints, the differences between creeds and confessions, what a confessional church is and how it worships, church membership, and Christian baptism. One book I (The Apostate Paul) read on pastoral ministry when I was attending seminary was called They Smell Like Sheep by Dr. Lynn Anderson. He makes the case that those who are ministering in the way Jesus intended are shepherds, and shepherds smell like sheep. I think you'll find through our discussion with Pastor Jon and through his book, that he smells like his sheep because he gets into the pasture with his flock to know and understand them, and feeds them with the Word of God.

    59 min
  4. Effective Evangelical Dialogue with Latter-day Saints (w/ Kyle Beshears)

    07/11/2023

    Effective Evangelical Dialogue with Latter-day Saints (w/ Kyle Beshears)

    This week we bring you another special guest episode. Kyle Beshears is a pastor in the Mobile, Alabama area and a scholar of Christianity. In his scholarly work, Kyle engages with the broader Latter Day Saint Restoration Movement, and in particular with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day [no hyphen, capital ‘D’] Saints, or the branch of the LDS Movement that followed James J. Strang after the death of Joseph Smith. I (The Apostate Paul) first met Kyle when I went on Steven Pynakker’s Mormon Book Reviews YouTube channel to discuss our book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message: Confident Conversations with Mormon Missionaries (and Other Latter-day Saints). Steve had invited Kyle on as a co-host for our author panel discussion of the book, and based on some of Kyle’s comments and some conversations he and I had afterwards, I thought it would be interesting to have Kyle on to discuss what it looks like to have effective dialogue with those from the LDS Restoration Movement. You can learn more about Kyle at https://kylebeshears.com/.  His article that we discuss in this episode is available here: https://kylebeshears.com/content/unobvious-differences

    1 h y 28 min

  5. 31/10/2023

    Crossover: MBR - Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message Panel Discussion

    This week we're publishing a crossover episode. Several coauthors of the book, Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message: Confident Conversations with Mormon Missionaries (and other Latter0day Saints) appeared on Steve Pynakker's Mormon Book Reviews YouTube program. Represented here are Corey Miller, president and CEO of Ratio Christi (ratiochristi.org), Ross Anderson, pastor at Alpine Church and executive director of Utah Advance Ministries, the Apostate Paul, and Joel Fauver. Kyle Beshears, a pastor in Mobile, Alabama, joined Steve as his cohost for this panel discussion. We hope you enjoy this episode and that it is helpful to you in your journeys.

    1 h y 44 min

  6. 24/10/2023

    The Harrowing of Hell & Second Chances, Pt. 2

    In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I continue our discussion from last week regarding feed back we received to our Apostles Creed episode.

    35 min

  7. 19/10/2023

    The Harrowing of Hell & Second Chances, Pt. 1

    In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and The Apostate Paul share a conversation they originally had in March of 2022. After discussing an LDS Church sign in that was posted in Arizona, they begin a discussion of the "harrowing of hell" clause in the Apostle's Creed. Latter-day Saint teaching is that between Jesus' death and resurrection, he visited "spirit prison" to begin a program of missionary work in the "spirit world" so that those who died without hearing the gospel can accept it after death. We received some pushback on our episode on the Apostle's Creed. Some Latter-day Saints suggested that our theology wouldn't allow us to accept the line in the Apostle's Creed that Christ "descended into hell." This episode and the next is our response to that claim.

    40 min

  8. 10/10/2023

    The Joseph & Mary Chain

    In this episode, Matthew and I revisit an old criticism of the LDS Faith. Namely, that Latter-day Saints worship Joseph Smith. We tackle it by comparing and contrasting with a similar critique that Protestants sometimes make about Roman Catholics with regards to their veneration of Mary. Thus, the Joseph & Mary Chain, a play on the name of the Scottish Rock band, The Jesus & Mary Chain. We ask and discuss: 1. When we talk about worshipping God, what do we mean by the word “worship”? 2. Do Catholics worship Mary? If yes, in what ways? 3. Do Mormons worship Joseph Smith? If yes, in what ways? 4. What about the Hymn “Praise to the Man?” Some will certainly be surprised by our answers. All we ask is that you listen and not prejudge. God bless you.

    29 min
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The Outer Brightness Podcast is an ongoing respectful conversation between friends about their transition out of the LDS Church to faith in Jesus alone for salvation. We don't agree on everything, and that's okay. Join us!

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