Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

Tom Schimmer

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education. Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement. About the Hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country. Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away. Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing. Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner. Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity. Why Listen? Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

  1. 5D AGO

    34 - Why Participation Grades Don’t Belong in Your Gradebook (And What To Do Instead)

    Participation grades are still widely used in education. In this episode, Tom and Nat challenge the assumption that participation belongs in academic grades by unpacking a critical distinction: participation may support learning, but it is not the same as learning. Through a candid and thought-provoking conversation, they explore what participation grades often end up measuring: personality, confidence, compliance, and cultural norms, rather than actual understanding. The result? Grades that can unintentionally distort achievement and disadvantage certain learners. But this episode doesn’t stop at critique. Tom and Nat reframe participation as something too important to reduce to a number, offering practical ways to make it more inclusive, intentional, and aligned with sound assessment practices. From expanding how participation is defined to separating it from academic achievement and using it as a tool for feedback and growth, this conversation will challenge your thinking and give you concrete ways to better support student engagement, without compromising the integrity of your grades. While this episode is timely, given the recent announcement by the Ontario government, it was recorded on March 27, before the government's "Putting Student Achievement First Act, 2026" was announced in April 2026.   Check Out Edsby Destinations   Feedback Flow Mini-Course   Assess THAT on YouTube!     🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE   CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: info@canadianassessment.ca     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X

    42 min
  2. APR 19

    33 - Interview w/ Jon Asbury, Edsby Destinations

    In this episode, Tom & Natalie are joined by Jon Asbury, co-founder of Edsby, to discuss their new platform, "Edsby Destinations." Previously, Jon was one of the three co-founders of a company called SoftArc. SoftArc built an email and collaboration system called FirstClass back in the 90s that took the world by storm and is credited as, among other things, the first learning management system. Edsby Destinations is a scalable, competency-based assessment and reporting system designed to help K-12 districts and state governments clearly articulate and track what students are learning, where they are headed, and how to get them there. Destinations aligns performance to local outcome frameworks and standards, enabling a student “GPS for learning” with real-time educator visibility into progress against defined success criteria. Teachers, students, and families benefit from clear, student-friendly language, multimedia evidence capture, two-way feedback, and dashboards that illuminate learning pathways at individual, class, and regional levels. Designed for large K-12 organizations and linked with existing SISes and LMSes, it ensures assessment practices scale with transparency and consistency.   Check Out Edsby Destinations     Feedback Flow Mini-Course   Assess THAT on YouTube!     🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: info@canadianassessment.ca     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

    50 min
  3. MAR 30

    32 - Why Feedback Fails (And What Actually Makes It Work)

    In this episode, Tom and Nat take a hard look at one of the most celebrated and misunderstood elements of teaching: feedback. While research consistently shows that feedback can significantly improve student achievement, the reality in many classrooms is very different. Too often, feedback is given but not used, leaving teachers frustrated and students unchanged. Together, they unpack five key reasons feedback fails, including the impact of grades, cognitive overload, poor timing, over-directiveness, and the emotional side of how feedback lands with students. More importantly, this episode shifts the conversation from effort to design. Tom and Nat explore what actually makes feedback effective (not in theory, but in practice), offering clear, actionable principles that help ensure feedback leads to thinking, revision, and growth. If you’ve ever wondered why your feedback isn’t getting the results you hoped for, this episode will challenge your assumptions and give you a more intentional, impactful way forward.   Feedback Flow Mini-Course   Assess THAT on YouTube!     🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: info@canadianassessment.ca     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

    34 min
  4. MAR 16

    31 - Averaging Is Statistically Convenient and Educationally Misleading

    Averaging feels neutral, objective, and mathematically sound, but in the context of student learning, it can quietly distort the story a grade is meant to tell. In this episode, Tom and Natalie take a deep dive into the statistics that dominate most gradebooks (mean, median, and mode) and unpack why tools designed to summarize stable data can mislead us when applied to something as dynamic as human learning. Along the way, they explore the hidden problems of equal weighting, outliers, small sample sizes, and the false precision created by decimals that suggest more accuracy than the evidence can truly support. Through practical examples and thought-provoking scenarios, Tom and Natalie show how averaging can punish growth, hide mastery, and cement early struggles into final judgments. But this episode isn’t anti-math; it’s about measurement clarity. They explore the limited situations where averaging can be helpful and offer practical alternatives for blending statistical summaries with professional judgment so that grades communicate what they’re supposed to: a meaningful and defensible interpretation of student learning.     Assess THAT on YouTube!     🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: info@canadianassessment.ca     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

    35 min
  5. MAR 5

    30 - Assessment Literacy Is the Real "Teacher Shortage"

    Across education, we hear constant concern about teacher shortages. On the surface, it seems like recruitment pipelines, retention rates, burnout, and workload are the issues. But beneath those very real challenges lies a quieter, more systemic issue: many educators have never received deep, sustained support for developing assessment literacy. When teachers lack clarity around evidence, criteria, professional judgment, and grading accuracy, everything becomes heavier. Grading expands, decision fatigue sets in, parent conversations feel tense, and confidence erodes. In this episode, Tom & Natalie argue that strengthening assessment literacy isn’t just about improving grading practices, it’s about stabilizing the profession itself. When teachers understand what counts as evidence, how to separate behaviour from achievement, and how to make defensible judgments about learning, workload becomes more manageable, and confidence grows. Assessment literacy reduces friction, restores professional agency, and creates coherence across classrooms and schools. If we want teachers to stay (and thrive) this is foundational work we can’t afford to overlook.   Assess THAT on YouTube!   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: info@canadianassessment.ca     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

    50 min
  6. FEB 16

    29 - Lowering the Bar Isn’t Compassion: Rethinking Assessment and Care

    In this episode, Tom and Nat explore a tension many educators are feeling right now: our deep desire to be compassionate in assessment and the unintended consequences that can arise when compassion gets confused with lowering expectations. Responding to student stress, disengagement, and inequity is real and necessary work. But when clarity fades, standards soften, and expectations become negotiable, students often lose the very signals they need to grow, build confidence, and trust the learning process. Through stories, reflection, and practical examples, this conversation reframes rigour and care as partners rather than opposites. Tom and Nat argue that the most humane assessment practices are grounded in clear expectations, honest feedback, and meaningful support, not diluted standards. If you’ve ever wrestled with flexibility, fairness, or how to hold the bar while honouring students’ realities, this episode invites you to rethink what compassion truly requires in assessment.   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. JOIN HERE CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: info@canadianassessment.ca     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

    42 min
  7. FEB 2

    28 - AI Didn’t Break Assessment; It Exposed It (and What That Means for Integrity)

    AI has sparked fear, urgency, and a wave of reactionary policies in schools, but what if the real issue isn’t the technology itself? In this episode, Tom and Natalie argue that AI didn’t break assessment; it exposed long-standing weaknesses in task design, clarity, and how we define academic integrity. Rather than framing AI as a cheating problem to be solved through bans and detection tools, they invite listeners to reconsider what meaningful evidence of learning actually looks like in an AI-present world. Through real-world composite examples and reflective dialogue, this episode reframes academic integrity as a design and culture issue, not a policing one. Tom and Natalie explore how clarity, transparency, and intentional assessment practices reduce misuse, strengthen trust, and keep learning at the center. If you’re feeling overwhelmed by AI or unsure how to respond without compromising your values, this conversation offers a grounded, assessment-literate path forward.   A.I. Won't Pass this Test Webinar   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: info@canadianassessment.ca     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

    35 min
  8. JAN 19

    27 - The Hidden Cost of Implementation Errors in Assessment & Grading

    When educators say, “We tried that… and it didn’t work,” the conversation often stops there. But what if the problem isn’t the idea itself (e.g., feedback, reassessment, rubrics, or standards-based grading) but the way it was implemented? In this episode of Assess THAT, Tom & Nat explore the often-overlooked distinction between sound assessment ideas and the implementation choices that bring them to life. Through concrete classroom and leadership examples, they unpack why promising practices are so frequently abandoned before they’ve had a real chance to succeed. Taking a coaching-oriented lens, this conversation invites educators to slow down, reflect, and ask better questions before dismissing powerful approaches to assessment and grading. You’ll hear about common implementation errors - surface adoption, misaligned beliefs, missing conditions, and unrealistic expectations - and how refining implementation can restore trust in practices that genuinely support student learning. This episode is a reminder that implementation is not a checklist, but a professional design challenge worth getting right.   🍁 CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here CAC on Instagram CAC on Facebook CAC on X EMAIL: info@canadianassessment.ca     PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS   -Mar. 18-21, 2026 (Tom) EARCOS Teacher Conference (Bangkok, TH) -Apr. 1-2, 2026 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Franklin, TN) -Apr. 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)     NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT Rehumanizing Assessment     CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE Podcast on X Tom on X Natalie on X Podcast on IG Tom on IG Natalie on IG

    41 min
4.7
out of 5
49 Ratings

About

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education. Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement. About the Hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country. Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away. Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing. Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner. Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity. Why Listen? Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

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