The Symbolic World

Jonathan Pageau

Jonathan Pageau looks at symbolism in all its forms, from its source in sacred stories and images to contemporary culture and ultimately how it shapes the world we encounter.

  1. 17 hrs ago

    459 - The Future Belongs to Humans (Ottawa talk)

    This is a talk I presented at Chesterton Academy of Ottawa earlier this year.  YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ETaRAauDxS0 Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel  Timestamps: 00:00 - Coming up 00:51 - Intro music 01:05 - Chesterton Academy introduction 03:28 - Jonathan begins: art, AI, education, and the Pope’s encyclical 05:53 - Why AI is not human intelligence 08:18 - AI lacks embodied understanding 10:47 - Money, efficiency, power, and the values behind AI 13:07 - The Moloch trap and the AI arms race 15:32 - AI’s impact on work and education 17:01 - The anti-human vision of technocracy 18:40 - What education is really for 21:05 - Why learn art in the age of AI? 23:50 - Little Red Riding Hood promotion 24:46 - Remember, celebrate, and create 25:57 - Remembering our stories and traditions 29:36 - Celebrate what is good 33:16 - Create in service of remembrance and celebration 37:11 - Sincerity after irony and cynicism 39:32 - Fairy tales, icons, and Christian visual language 42:58 - Graphic novels, saints, and medieval storytelling 44:28 - The challenge and opportunity of our time 46:27 - Q: Is pessimism about AI justified? 48:32 - Q: How can remembrance, celebration, and creation be transmitted practically in schools and families? 53:23 - Q: Should schools return to oral exams and oral presentations because of AI? 55:52 - Q: How much can we participate in or use AI without falling into the trap? 58:31 - Q: What does cave art reveal about the relationship between man and art? Is art the signature of man? 01:03:02 - Q: What is the difference between inventing something new and creating? 01:07:20 - Q: Do strict rules in art stifle creativity? Why do people say beauty is subjective? 01:10:04 - Q: How can we recover a true remembrance of the Middle Ages rather than seeing them as dark or backward? 01:14:55 - Q: What is the difference between reading traditional stories and watching movies for entertainment? 01:19:02 - Q: Why was beauty dismissed from art, and why is our built environment so ugly? 01:21:07 - Q: What is your favorite piece of art in your home? 01:23:28 - Q: Can AI be used as a Socratic interlocutor in education? 01:26:36 - Q: What is the value of teaching classical languages like Latin and ancient Greek? 01:27:45 - Q: How should young artists balance pursuing art with the need to make money? 01:30:50 - Q: What is the importance of boredom, rest, silence, and imagination? 01:33:15 - Q: Is re-enchantment, post-irony, and sincerity possible in an intentional way? 01:37:08 - Q: How can different traditions unite against AI without losing their distinctiveness? 01:41:39 - Q: How do we discern beauty in imperfect work, especially in a performative society focused on excellence? 01:44:02 - Q: Where do you think AI is going, especially in education and culture? 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau   🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488  Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/  My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

    1h 49m

  2. 4d ago

    458 - What's at stake with The Odyssey (2026) by Christopher Nolan

    There’s a lot of expectation and noise around Christopher Nolan’s upcoming movie, The Odyssey (2026). For decades after WW2 we were unable to tell many stories about kingship and fatherhood. As we move through the turbulent end of the WW2 consensus, stories like this form part of how we process the return of the father and identity. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/6prGX3wZKI8 Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free. More than our other fairy tales, this one emphasizes the importance of the father’s role in protecting his family from the strange and subversive. https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

    20 min

  3. 4d ago

    457 - Backrooms (2026): A Strange Return to Normal

    Backrooms (2026) is a recent horror/thriller film based on a creepypasta —an internet urban legend— that emerged around the time of the Covid lockdowns. A man discovers an infinite, labyrinthine expanse of "backrooms" that becomes increasingly disturbing. In this video, I analyze the symbolism of the film and explore the deeper reasons why it is so popular, outshining major blockbusters with much larger budgets and marketing campaigns. Enjoy. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ZK6NaFsBGaM Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

    25 min

  4. Jun 16

    456 - Gavin Ortlund - Who Can Be Saved?

    I had a discussion with Gavin Ortlund about the Orthodox Church's position on salvation outside the church. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/RtC8ENpbOW4 Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel  Timestamps 00:00 Introduction and background to the discussion 03:08 Steelmanning each other’s positions 04:12 Gavin summarizes the Orthodox view of salvation 05:37 Jonathan explains salvation as healing and theosis 06:36 Normative and non-normative ways of salvation 08:13 Jonathan summarizes Gavin’s historical argument 10:53 Gavin clarifies his thesis about Orthodoxy, Catholics, and Protestants 16:40 Is the modern Orthodox view a return to earlier tradition? 18:32 Gavin explains why the 9th–19th century period matters 20:20 Disagreement over whether individuals can be declared damned 22:57 Jonathan responds on Orthodox theological boundaries 24:54 Debate over the 9th century and the Photian schism 31:32 The question: Is Gavin a Christian brother? 38:37 The Synod of Jerusalem and Protestant theology 41:36 Jonathan reads from the Synod of Jerusalem 43:56 Gavin responds to Jonathan’s use of an old blog post 46:42 Gavin outlines the Synod’s language about Protestants 49:12 Jonathan argues synods define norms, not individual destinies 52:28 Gavin challenges the “normative” reading of the Synod 55:20 Normative texts, dogmatic authority, and qualifications 58:13 Theophan the Recluse and hope for the non-Orthodox 01:04:16 St. Philaret of Moscow and leaving souls to God’s mercy 01:09:35 Protestant missions in Orthodox lands 01:11:23 Gavin defends Protestant missionary theology 01:13:30 Jonathan critiques Protestant evangelism and denominationalism 01:16:21 The Eucharist, communion, and institutional exclusivism 01:18:16 Gavin explains why he is not Orthodox 01:20:44 Jonathan on Christ’s presence and God’s desire to save all 01:21:59 Are Protestants categorized like Buddhists or Muslims? 01:25:36 Salvation as transformation into the image of Christ 01:28:55 Theophan’s advice: focus on your own salvation 01:30:06 Personal holiness and evangelism 01:32:18 Calvinism, evangelism, and divine decree 01:36:52 Predestination, foreknowledge, and the River of Fire 01:39:59 Closing the theological discussion 01:40:33 Gavin’s apology and reflections on online discourse 01:42:59 A call for patient Protestant-Orthodox dialogue 01:44:12 Jonathan’s closing thanks 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau   🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488  Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/  My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

    1h 46m

  5. Jun 11

    455 - Disclosure Day: The Last Boomer Propaganda Movie

    I went to see Spielberg’s Disclosure Day and found myself watching a strange, late-stage piece of boomer propaganda about aliens, media, religion, and who we are supposed to trust. Here are my thoughts on the symbolism of the film. Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/SBGPLaGfVTc Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel  🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau   🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488  Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/  My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

    22 min

  6. Jun 9

    454 - The Enemy Who Pretends to Be Your Friend

    We often think of enemies as those who attack us openly, but fairy tales also warn us about another kind of enemy: the one who comes close, pretends to be our friend, and destroys from within. I also discuss how this pattern appears in Scripture, culture, identity, and even technology, and why discernment is so important in our current moment. Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/  YouTube version: https://youtu.be/U8VXqPX1-0Q Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel  🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau   🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488  Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/  My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

    18 min

  7. Jun 2

    453 - Seraphim Hamilton - Isaiah: The Fifth Gospel

    I’m joined again by Seraphim Hamilton to discuss his upcoming Symbolic World course on Isaiah, beginning June 15th. We talk about why Isaiah is central for understanding Christ in the Old Testament, the relationship between prophecy, exile, the suffering servant, the gentile nations, and the deep symbolic unity between Scripture, liturgy, and creation. Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel  YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lPpBFh2-V90 Timestamps: 00:00 - Coming up 00:47 - Intro music 01:01 - Introducing Seraphim Hamilton and the Isaiah course 01:48 - Seminary, liturgy, and returning to Scripture 02:39 - Why Isaiah? 03:02 - Isaiah as a Christological book 05:27 - High Christology in the Old Testament 06:52 - Leviathan, Revelation, and the Angel of the Lord 07:51 - Isaiah 27 and the serpent of Genesis 08:22 - Sennacherib, Hezekiah, and the Angel of the Lord 10:51 - Are Old Testament prophecies taken out of context? 11:18 - Exile, Assyria, Babylon, and biblical prophecy 14:57 - Course promo: The Fifth Gospel 15:47 - Isaiah 14 and the fall of Satan 16:44 - The king of Babylon and the Daystar 19:06 - Isaiah 14, Isaiah 53, and the suffering servant 22:46 - Venus, Lucifer, and Christ as opposite images 24:22 - Angels, humanity, and the transfer of authority 25:57 - Is the suffering servant Israel or the Messiah? 26:23 - The Messiah as the son of David 28:50 - The servant, the seed, and the restoration of Israel 32:13 - How the nations participate in the promise 32:41 - The Old Testament and the redemption of the nations 34:54 - The mountain of the Lord and divine fire 37:34 - The heavenly Jerusalem and Isaiah 60 38:02 - Isaiah 59, incarnation, and the redemption of Israel 40:19 - The nations coming to honor the Jewish Messiah 43:14 - What the Isaiah class hopes to offer 43:56 - Seeing Christ disclosed in the Old Testament 46:36 - Symbolism, the Fathers, and the tight weave of Scripture 47:44 - Course details: five classes on Isaiah 48:49 - Closing and where to sign up 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau   🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488  Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/  My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

    49 min

  8. May 29

    452 - Hillsdale talk - Mythological Thinking: The Crossroads of Psychology and Theology

    This is a talk I did at Hillsdale College in March 2026. In this talk, I explore mythological thinking as a way of understanding how facts become meaningful. Facts do not present themselves to us neutrally. They are always organized by care, relevance, attention, and story. I look at examples from Genesis, Icarus, Spider-Man, the Tower of Babel, and modern science to show how myths preserve deep patterns of human experience. Rather than treating myth as fiction or primitive explanation, I argue that myth reveals the structures by which we perceive reality, understand purpose, and connect psychology with theology. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DEShUddn8HY Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau   🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 -Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488  Timestamps: 00:00 Coming up 01:38 Intro music 02:03 Introduction at Hillsdale College 06:59 Talk begins: hope, fragmentation, and new conversations 09:19 “Facts don’t care about your feelings” 12:12 Care organizes facts 16:50 Facts are always contained in a story 19:15 The Fifth Gospel course announcement 20:10 Why stories survive across generations 24:04 Mythological stories vs. scientific descriptions 27:14 Origin stories and why we care 30:37 Genesis as more than a scientific text 33:34 Genesis, relevance, and human categories 37:38 Why the mythological story should be primary 39:36 Myths are not primitive explanations 41:47 Babel, Icarus, Prometheus, and repeated patterns 44:16 Applicability vs. allegory 47:40 All remembered stories are mythological 49:24 Psychology, theology, and human care 51:27 The Incarnation as the myth that came true 54:34 How story unites psychology and theology 58:29 Returning to mythological thinking 59:55 Q&A: Bringing mythological thinking into science education 01:02:58 Q&A: How to recognize false myths 01:07:37 Q&A: Speaking truth in hostile circles 01:08:53 Q&A: Original sin as a true myth 01:11:13 Q&A: How artists discover truth through story 01:13:42 Q&A: Why live by Christ’s story rather than another? 01:18:21 Q&A: The modern fall into cold, hard reality Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/  My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

    1h 21m
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Hosts & Guests

4.9
out of 5
161 Ratings

About

Jonathan Pageau looks at symbolism in all its forms, from its source in sacred stories and images to contemporary culture and ultimately how it shapes the world we encounter.

Information

  • Creator
    Jonathan Pageau
  • Years Active
    2018 - 2026
  • Episodes
    457
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Copyright Jonathan Pageau
  • Show Website
    The Symbolic World

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