In this warm, clinical-and-traditional conversation, Amy and Lisa explore how chanting and mantra practice can shape the autonomic nervous system and the mind through repetition, meaning, vibration, and relationship. Lisa shares her journey from clinical psychology leadership in pediatric behavioral health to yoga therapy and chanting in Europe, and she offers grounded guidance for meeting students exactly where they are—especially when voice, vulnerability, perfectionism, or skepticism show up. This episode holds a steady bridge between allopathic settings and yogic tradition: chanting as both a deeply ancient transmission method and a contemporary, accessible tool for resilience, co-regulation, and sustained inner change. In this episode, you’ll hear Why Yoga Sūtra 1.12 (abhyāsa + vairāgya) is a practical map for habit change, neuroplasticity, and healingHow abhyāsa can function like a “secure base” (attachment lens): a reliable place to return for steadinessHow vairāgya supports discernment and letting go—especially of limiting beliefs like “I can’t chant” or “My voice isn’t welcome”Why chanting can be done silently, anywhere, and how that matters when life gets stripped down to essentialsThe difference between mantra japa, kīrtan, and “therapeutic repetition” versus compulsive repetitionHow teachers build a safe, predictable container where practice becomes possible—even for tender nervous systemsWhat it means to keep mantra “alive” through oral transmission, practice, and continuity across generationsReal talk about resistance: voice, self-consciousness, perfectionism, and how practice mirrors our livesA moving reflection on how relational rupture can impact practice—and how reconnection can unfold over time Core teachings that stood out Abhyāsa as a secure base Lisa reframes abhyāsa as more than discipline. It becomes an inner home you can trust—something you return to when the world is loud, when your mind is moving fast, or when life is uncertain. Vairāgya as discernment, not detachment Vairāgya is the “letting go” side of change: releasing old impressions, beliefs, and protective habits that no longer serve. In this episode, it shows up as the courage to experiment—without over-identifying with fear, shame, or “I can’t.” Mantra as a multi-layered intervention Meaning, vibration, rhythm, breath rate, imagery/bhāvana, memory, and relationship all converge. When the whole system aligns, the “new track” becomes easier to lay down—steadily and over time. The teacher’s job is to match the dose Lisa offers a clinical yoga therapy lens: choose repetition amounts and methods that fit the person’s capacity, life context, and readiness. Sustainable practice matters more than idealized practice. Voice is a clinical doorway Chanting can bring up themes of safety, expression, shame, silencing, and self-trust. Rather than forcing exposure, Lisa models progressive steps—silent practice, practicing “on mute,” or starting with simple sounds—so expression becomes possible. Practical takeaways you can try Choose a “minimum viable” mantra practice you can keep: 3 repetitions, 11 repetitions on fingers, or a partial mala with a clear stopping point.Decide the purpose of repetition before you begin: regulation, steadiness, devotion, confidence, or easing fear.Use choice points (listen only, chant silently, chant softly) to reduce performance pressure and build safety.Notice what your resistance protects—then bring abhyāsa to the edge of that resistance, gently and consistently.Let mantra become familiar enough that it appears on its own when you need it—like a trusted inner companion. About Lisa Lisa is a yoga therapist and clinical psychologist with decades of leadership experience in pediatric behavioral health and integrative hospital settings. Now based in the Netherlands, she teaches and offers yoga therapy and yoga psychotherapy, integrating mind, body, and spirit with clinical discernment and deep respect for lineage. Lisa joins us from near The Hague and Leiden, within an hour of Amsterdam. Connect with Lisa Website: LifeTreeYogaRecorded classes: available via her YouTube channel (integrated 90-minute practices)Ongoing option: online group class on Fridays + private yoga therapy / yoga psychotherapy sessions onlineConnect with Amy www.TheOptimalState.com School of Integrative Health at NDMU: https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health Master of Science in Yoga Therapy at NDMU: https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy Explore NDMU’s Post-Master’s Certificate in Therapeutic Yoga Practices, designed specifically for licensed healthcare professionals: https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy/post-masters-certificate-in-therapeutic-yoga-practices Try our Post-Bac Ayurveda Certification Program at NDMU: https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/ayurveda/post-baccalaureate-ayurveda-certification #IntegrativeHealth #HealthcareEducation #InterprofessionalEducation #GraduateSchool #NDMUproud #SOIHproud #SOIHYoga #SOIHAyurveda #NDMUYoga #NDMUAyurveda #SOIHGraduateSchool
