unSeminary Podcast

Rich Birch
  • 4.9 (22)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Biweekly

stuff you wish they taught in seminary.

  1. 4d ago

    The People Quietly Drifting Out Your Back Door with Toni Nieuwhof

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Toni Nieuwhof, author, speaker, family law mediator, podcaster, and co-host of the Smart Family Podcast. Toni has spent much of her professional life helping people navigate difficult circumstances, and her own journey through pain, healing, and faith has shaped her latest project, Honest to God: Daring to Trust When You Don’t Understand. How does your church help people when God feels distant, silent, or even confusing? Are there people in your congregation quietly wrestling with suffering while everyone around them assumes they’re doing fine? Tune in as Toni shares why churches need to create safer spaces for honest questions, how community can shape the way people walk through suffering, and how her new book can help leaders support people in seasons of pain. Suffering often reveals what we’ve buried. // Toni describes her own long healing journey from growing up in a home marked by alcoholism, anger, and emotional disconnection. For years, she would have described her childhood as normal, but over time God began exposing defense mechanisms and unresolved pain. Healing took decades, reminding leaders that people may be carrying wounds they don’t yet understand—or may not even realize are shaping them. Lean toward God when life doesn’t make sense. // Honest to God was inspired in part by Moses’ response after Israel’s rebellion with the golden calf. Rather than pulling away from God in frustration, Moses leaned in and asked God to teach him His ways, remain present, and show His glory. Toni sees that posture as a powerful model for anyone facing suffering, confusion, or disappointment. Make room for multiple stories of suffering. // Toni invited a diverse group of contributors—such as Mark Batterson, Ann Voskamp, Jennie Lusko, John Ortberg, and others—to share vulnerable stories about what they discovered about God during difficult seasons. The book is organized around three themes: the ways of God, intimacy with God, and the glory of God. Each chapter explores what someone learned, experienced, or saw more clearly as they walked through suffering. Don’t assume you can see someone’s crisis. // People can become highly skilled at masking spiritual and emotional pain. Toni notes that someone may still attend church, serve, smile, and participate while privately wondering whether God is good, whether He has forgotten them, or whether He is even listening. Because those questions can feel too frightening or even sacrilegious to voice, people often distract themselves rather than confront them. Community can determine whether people lean in or drift away. // Toni believes one of the most important factors in how people navigate suffering is the quality of Christian community around them. Isolation can happen even inside a church or small group. Healthy communities create enough trust for people to remove their masks, ask hard questions, and tell the truth without immediately being corrected or pressured to put a positive spiritual spin on heartbreaking circumstances. Give your church language for grief and doubt. // Toni believes churches are often strong at celebrating transformation but less equipped to walk with people through prolonged suffering. To help leaders open those conversations, the project includes a four-week sermon series and group study guide. These resources are designed to help churches talk honestly about adversity, disappointment, trust, and God’s faithfulness without minimizing what people are experiencing. Let the project help beyond your church. // Toni and every contributor donated their time to the project, and 100% of the proceeds support young adult education through Compassion International and Convoy of Hope. Purchasing through the project’s website helps maximize the amount directed toward those causes while also providing churches access to bulk ordering and additional healing resources. To learn more about Toni Nieuwhof, purchase Honest to God: Daring to Trust When You Don’t Understand, or explore resources for churches and small groups, visit honesttoGodbook.com. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: TouchPoint As your church reaches more people, one of the biggest challenges is making sure no one slips through the cracks along the way.TouchPoint Church Management Software is an all-in-one ecosystem built for churches that want to elevate discipleship by providing clear data, strong engagement tools, and dependable workflows that scale as you grow. TouchPoint is trusted by some of the fastest-growing and largest churches in the country because it helps teams stay aligned, understand who they’re reaching, and make confident ministry decisions week after week. If you’ve been wondering whether your current system can carry your next season of growth, it may be time to explore what TouchPoint can do for you. You can evaluate TouchPoint during a free, no-pressure one-hour demo at TouchPointSoftware.com/demo. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Listen, come here, come in close, you listen in because today’s conversation is fantastic and you are going to love where we are going.Rich Birch — Today I’ve got like a real world friend, somebody that I know outside of the internet and I want you to know them better. But not only that, they’ve got this incredible project that is going to help you and your church. And I ultimately think actually people you know who attend your church and maybe even beyond your church, this is going to be a fantastic conversation.Rich Birch — Honored to have my friend, Toni Nieuwhof with us. She is an author, a speaker, a family law mediator, and has spent decades of her professional life practicing law where she’s combining her professional careers also as a pharmacist, and a lawyer in leadership roles for hospitals. She’s incredibly talented, and and she’s also a podcaster, and she’s an author. She does a lot of different things. Toni, welcome to the podcast. So glad you’re here.Toni Nieuwhof — Oh, Rich, I am thrilled to be here. And yeah, it’s so great to have ah a good conversation with a friend anytime, but especially with you. So thanks for having me on.Rich Birch — That’s so kind of you. It’s always a little bit funny when I have people that I know in the real world on the podcast because, you know, there’s like this conversation we’re having and it’s mediated through this technology, which is kind of funny, but hopefully it’ll it’ll it’ll be a positive I know it’ll be a positive conversation for people that are listening in. Rich Birch — But I kind of gave a little bit of your professional background. You have this incredible, when I talk about you, I’m coming clean. When I talk about you behind your back, Toni, I say, you know, I have this friend, Toni, who’s done everything. She’s pharmacist, lawyer, you know, all that stuff I rattle off, law mediator, podcaster, author. It’s like you’re constantly reinventing yourself in the best way possible. So to what’s the through line in that and how what led you to to here to where you are today? Kind of author, you know, podcaster. Talk to me about that.Toni Nieuwhof — Oh, sometimes, Rich, I’d have to say that, you know, I feel a bit schizophrenic when we talk about all the different hats. I’ve had such a winding path of a of a career. As far as a through line, I feel like God’s been very gracious to me. I’ve felt like I went through those various changes in my professional life, wondering where this is all going. But in every context, feeling like, okay, I have an assignment right now and I can serve these people this way. Toni Nieuwhof — And so I think the through line is that I’ve really I feel like God has led me through a um a personal healing journey of my own, um where I’ve actually been privileged to serve people along the way with the tools that he’s put in my hands. But at this stage in my professional life, I know a thing or two about what it is to um to suffer trauma and what it is to heal and find God in the midst of it. And that process has just left me with so much gratitude and also very motivated to just be a part of conversations um that focus on how God truly does show up ah in the journey of suffering.Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. And we’re, you know, friends, you’re getting a hint of where we’re headed today. And I’m, this thing is gonna be a good conversation for us to to wrestle through and think about that. What stood out to me there is you talked about, you know, your own personal healing journey, you know, that this has been, you know, as you look back in your in in your life, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that. Talk to me about, in your own life, how the kind of intersection of suffering, trauma, doubt, faith—How does how of all those kind of weave together for you in your own life?Toni Nieuwhof — Yeah, well, I would um just to give a little bit of context for people briefly.Rich Birch — Sure. Yes. Perfect.Toni Nieuwhof — I grew up in a middle class home that from the outside would have looked pretty normal, but from the inside um felt very chaotic. So my my dad was a binge drinker and alcoholic. He also was func

  2. Oct 15

    150-Year-Old Church Adds a Zero to Its Vision. The Question That Changed First Orlando

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Trey Hildebrant, Danny de Armas, and David Loveless from First Orlando, a historic multisite church serving Central Florida since 1871. Together, they are helping lead the church into a new season focused on multiplication, leadership development, and sending people into new gospel expressions across their region and beyond. What happens when a 150-year-old church decides it doesn’t want to simply preserve what it has built? How do you move from addition to multiplication without losing the strengths that got you there? Tune in as the First Orlando team shares how a bold vision, a new leadership structure, and a commitment to empowering everyday people are reshaping the future of the church. Lead through shared responsibility. // First Orlando currently operates with a “table of three” senior leadership model. Trey Hildebrant leads teaching and provides direction to campus pastors, Danny de Armas oversees executive leadership and organizational strategy, and David Uth provides shepherding and pastoral leadership. All three report to the board rather than to one another. The model works because they have clearly defined lanes, strong relationships, and the ability to disagree privately while stepping out publicly in unity. Make the Great Commission personal. // A major shift began when Danny realized the Great Commission is not only an institutional mission for the church but a personal mission for every believer. That insight reframed the way First Orlando began thinking about its future. Instead of asking only what the church organization could accomplish, leaders started asking how they could equip people to live on mission wherever God had already placed them. Put a God-sized vision on the table. // During a peer learning gathering, First Orlando leaders were challenged to imagine how many new gospel expressions they could launch over the next decade. Their initial answer was 10. Then they were challenged to add a zero. That moment eventually became the “110” vision: raising up 300 leaders and launching 100 gospel expressions over 10 years. The goal felt impossible, which was exactly what made it worth pursuing. Define gospel expressions broadly. // First Orlando defines a gospel expression as a “Great Commission community” where people pursue Jesus together, become more like Him, and are sent back into their everyday world. Rather than limiting the vision to traditional church plants, the team developed four expressions: regional campuses, church plants, microsites, and missional expressions. This gives the church room to reach different kinds of people through different ministry models. Match the model to the mission field. // Each gospel expression is designed for a different context. Regional campuses offer a full-service First Orlando experience. Church plants launch with their own identity and governance while remaining connected relationally. Microsites create smaller gatherings in homes, workplaces, or community spaces for people skeptical of institutional church. Missional expressions embed disciples directly into cultural spaces such as prisons, recovery communities, or even social clubs. Build the leadership pipeline first. // The team recognizes that multiplication will only happen if leaders are raised up before new expressions are launched. First Orlando is developing a sending residency built for co-vocational and bi-vocational people who can keep their jobs, families, and neighborhoods while being equipped for mission. The residency combines community, training, practice, feedback, and assignments over an extended season. Shift from “we can do it” to “you can do it.” // David Loveless, Executive Pastor of Global Mobilization, explains that churches focused on addition often communicate, “We can do ministry, and you can help us.” Multiplying churches reverse that mindset: “God has given you a vision, and we want to help you live it out.” First Orlando is working to expand the kingdom imagination of its people so they no longer see ministry as something that primarily happens through staff and programs. Keep celebrating the vision. // Launching a big vision is only the beginning. Trey emphasizes the importance of repeatedly telling stories of new gospel expressions, baptisms, and people stepping into leadership. Celebration helps the church remain emotionally connected to the vision long after the initial launch. Without consistent storytelling, even a compelling strategy can quietly fade into the background. To learn more about First Orlando and follow the story of its campuses, sending residency, and expanding gospel expressions, visit First Orlando at firstorlando.com and follow the church across its social channels. Leaders interested in learning more about their framework and resources behind their multiplication strategy can also connect directly with the First Orlando team. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, Rich here from the unSeminary Podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Wow, we have got an incredibly special podcast for you today. The stuff we’re talking about on multiple layers, I know, hope, pray, will impact your church. We’re talking about how do teams interact with each other. We’re talking about vision for the future. We’re talking about multiplication. And we’re getting a chance to sit down with multiple leaders from a prevailing church that’s doing a great job. Looking forward to looking under the hood. Alittle bit excited to have our friends from First Orlando with us. This is the first time I was just joking about this. The first time we have had. Three, not one, not two, but three guests on the line. So this is going to be good. It’s going to stretch me. It’s kind of like The View, but for church leaders. It’s going to be good and hopefully fun. Rich Birch — Excited to have Trey Hildebrant with us. He is the senior teaching pastor at First Orlando, newest member of the team. Danny de Armas, he is the Senior Executive Pastor, if I’m getting all the titles correctly, and David Loveless, Executive Pastor of Global Mobilization. Honored to have you guys with us. Rich Birch — If you’re not aware of First Orlando, This church started in 1871. They currently have multiple campuses across the greater Orlando area, including, if I’m counting correctly, four English locations, Campus Hispano and Campus Brasilio. It’s a fantastic church doing lots of great things. There’s lots of stuff we could talk about. Excited to have you guys on the call today. Thanks for being here.Trey Hildebrant — We’re excited.Danny de Armas — Great to be a part.Rich Birch — Why don’t we start, Trey, with you. Kind of tell, that’s like a boilerplate about the church. For folks that don’t know the church, kind of tell us a little bit about the church. Give us a bit more flavor. Fill out the picture a little bit for us.Trey Hildebrant — Well, you mentioned that we are a church that’s 150 years old. So there is a rich legacy. When I joined the team, one of the things that we celebrated was there’s only been five pastors in the past 100 years or something like that.Rich Birch — Wow, wow.Trey Hildebrant — So there’s this history there. There’s this presence in the community and around the world, honestly, that that honest partly drew my heart to First Orlando. And so we’ve been here since December of ’25, my wife and I. We came from an incredible church, but knew God was calling us to something different. and knew that Wherever God called us, we wanted to be a part of salvations and baptisms.Trey Hildebrant — And early in the conversation with First Orlando, David Uth and I, our senior shepherding pastor, just sat around and talked about our heart for baptisms for an hour one day in the interview process. And it’s that history. It’s that culture, it’s that calling, that Great Commission calling that helped affirm that this is where God wanted us to be. And hopefully, with me being the the new one on the team, one of the younger guys on the team, I hope to be here for 35 years to continue what God has been doing over the past 150.Rich Birch — That’s incredible. Yeah. You know, to honor your your leadership and your church, you know, I think of First Orlando as like one of those churches of record. It’s like when I think of Orlando, I think of First Orlando, like you guys have been there for a long time and served well. You know, I like to call you like a, it’s a life-giving church. Like this is the kind of church, my wife and I have this shorthand whenever I travel or interact with other church leaders, the shorthand we’ve boiled it down to, she says, yeah, but would you go there? Like, would you be a part of that church?Rich Birch — And First Orlando is definitely one of those churches. It’s like, man, you guys do such a great job on so many levels. And there’s a lot we could talk about.Trey Hildebrant — Well, it’s really kind of really kind of you to say that.Rich Birch — Oh, come on.Trey Hildebrant — There is something sweet. There is something really sweet about the presence of this place that you just even touched on. We just had a prayer gathering. We pray on Thursday mornings at 9 a.m. as a staff.

  3. Oct 8

    The Problem Your Church Can Feel but Can’t Name with Gavin Adams

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Dr. Gavin Adams, author, ministry consultant, leadership coach, and founder of Accelerate Consulting Advisory. Gavin previously served for 13 years as lead pastor of Woodstock City Church, where attendance grew from 200 to 8,000. Today, he works with churches around leadership strategy, organizational health, and clarity. Has your church become more complex than it needs to be? Are you running good programs that may no longer be moving the mission forward? Tune in as Gavin shares practical ways to rethink your ministry model, simplify your church’s pathway, and make sure everything you do helps people take meaningful steps toward Jesus. Your problem may be design, not passion. // Gavin often works with churches that deeply care about reaching people but still feel stuck. In many cases, the issue isn’t a lack of vision, theology, or commitment. It’s organizational design. Churches can have the right mission and still struggle because their structures, systems, and ministry models are no longer helping them execute that mission effectively. Stay married to the mission, not the model. // Every ministry model is created for a specific moment. Even a model that once worked perfectly can become outdated as the community, culture, and church change. Gavin encourages leaders to “date the model, not marry the model.” The mission remains constant, but the strategies and structures used to accomplish it should remain flexible. Beware of accumulated complexity. // Most churches don’t intentionally become complicated. They simply keep adding good things to meet legitimate needs. Over time, those programs, events, and ministries stack on top of one another until the church becomes busy without necessarily becoming more effective. Gavin challenges leaders to recognize that good activities can still compete with better, more mission-critical priorities. Put the mission on the whiteboard. // A practical first step is to reduce your mission to about eight words or fewer and then list everything your church currently does. Evaluate each program, event, and ministry against that mission. Does it clearly move the mission forward? If not, leaders should honestly ask why they continue doing it rather than automatically carrying last year’s calendar into the next year. Build a moving sidewalk, not a buffet. // Gavin compares an effective discipleship pathway to a moving sidewalk. Once someone steps onto it, the next step should feel clear, logical, and increasingly move them toward spiritual growth. Churches often create too many disconnected options instead. The goal is not to offer everything possible but to design a clear pathway that helps people know what their next step should be. Become person-centric instead of church-centric. // Churches often begin with what they want to offer and then ask who it might serve. Gavin recommends reversing that process. Start with the person you are trying to reach, understand where they are spiritually, and then design ministry around helping them move forward. Discipleship is simply helping people take incremental steps toward becoming more like Jesus. Use the five rights. // Gavin’s framework asks whether the right person receives the right message at the right time, in the right way, leading to the right next step. Those questions help leaders evaluate both existing ministries and new ideas. Not everyone needs the same ministry experience. Someone exploring faith may need a low-commitment serving opportunity, while a mature believer may be ready for leadership or deeper responsibility. Gavin encourages churches to consider both the step they want someone to take and the best way for that individual to take it based on where they currently are spiritually. Start with fresh eyes. // Redesigning a ministry model can be difficult when leaders are immersed in the current system. Gavin recommends involving an outside facilitator, consultant, or strategic leader who can help the team ask hard questions objectively. Fresh perspective can reveal complexity and assumptions that insiders have learned to accept as normal. To learn more about Gavin Adams and his work with churches, visit gavinadams.com or follow him on Instagram. Download an excerpt of his book, RE:MODEL: Five Questions That Reshape How You See and Build Your Church. Or purchase the book on Amazon for a step-by-step framework for evaluating and rebuilding your ministry model around the mission. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Portable Church Your church is doing really well right now, and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep momentum going! It could be time to start a new location. Maybe you have hesitated in the past few years, but you know it’s time to step out in faith again and launch that next location. Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Listen, we’ve got a return guest today, which what that means is, you know that I really love this person, think they’ve got a lot of good things to say to you. Doesn’t happen very much, but I’m really excited to have this guest back. And you need to lean in today because I think what this person has diagnosed, there are churches that are listening in today that are wrestling with. In fact, I know that’s true. There are churches that are, there might be something going on in your church that you might not be able to name that we’re going to name today, that if you could really wrestle it down, could make a real huge difference in your church. Rich Birch — And so you’re not going to want to miss today’s conversation with Dr. Gavin Adams. He’s an author, communicator, ministry consultant, leadership coach, and the founder of Accelerate Consulting Advisory. He works with pastors around leadership strategy, church health, organizational clarity. He previously was the lead at Woodstock City Church in Woodstock, Georgia for 13 years. During that time, the church church grew from 200 to 8,000 in weekly attendance, which is staggering. Gavin, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Gavin Adams — Hey, I appreciate that. That bio sounds way better than it actually probably is. But good to see you again.Rich Birch — I appreciate you coming back on. Tell us a little bit, fill in the picture since we last talked, what’s what’s going on in Gavin’s world?Gavin Adams — Yeah, yeah, lots of great stuff. My family stuff is probably my favorite thing that’s happening. You know, we we love that. I’ve got two little grandkids now, which makes me feel very old, but I’m very, very grateful. And my kids are all love each other, and we get to spend time with them. And I’ll tell you, that’s wonderful. And I love so much getting to work with pastors and churches around, really, I guess, around the world at this point.Gavin Adams — And watching what God is doing in different contexts, but also helping diagnose what’s working, what’s not working, how do we make things better, knowing, you know, I think we all believe this, that the the mission of the local church is the most important mission in the city. And so how do we ensure and this is my bent for sure but how do we ensure that the organization is functioning in the most healthy, most dynamic way possible so that that mission can come to fruition, that we don’t leave anything on the table because eternity is at stake, right?Rich Birch — That’s good.Gavin Adams — I love getting to do that. I get to do it every single day. And that’s my favorite it’s my favorite thing about my job.Rich Birch — Love it. So good. And we want to take advantage of the fact that you’re here today as a coach/consultant to so many churches across the country, around the world. Like you said, we want to tap that expertise and hear what you’re hearing and help the churches that are are listening in. You sit with a lot of leaders, a lot of pastors, and you have a lot of conversations. When a church picks up the phone or emails you, they call you. What’s going on? What’s happening there that they reach out to you?Gavin Adams — Yeah, there’s there’s one of a couple of things it usually comes down to. Most everyone I talk to is typically growth-oriented, and I don’t mean necessarily numerically growth-oriented. But the pastors I tend to work with or who reach out are pastors who are who care deeply about their community, about the local church, but also care about seeing people grow in their faith, unreached people be reached. Gavin Adams — And so there is this kind of dynamic of progress right in their heart. And

  4. Oct 1

    You Can Be a Kind Boss and Still Wear Your Team Out with Adam Weber

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Adam Weber, founder and lead pastor of Embrace Church in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. What began in 2006 with 32 people has grown into a multisite church reaching thousands each week. Along the way, Adam has experienced explosive growth, painful leadership setbacks, seasons of rebuilding, and renewed momentum. Has your church hit a plateau after years of growth? Are you carrying more than your team can sustain? Wondering how greater clarity and healthier leadership rhythms could help your church move forward? Tune in as Adam shares lessons from Embrace’s lowest season and explains how greater self-awareness, organizational focus, and the Traction framework helped reshape both his leadership and the church. Growth can expose unhealthy leadership. // Embrace experienced significant growth from 2009 through 2016, but Adam admits that his drive to keep moving forward eventually took a toll on his team. He wasn’t an angry or demanding leader in obvious ways, but he constantly pushed toward the next goal. Looking back, Adam realized that leaders can genuinely love people and still wear them out. Good intentions don’t automatically produce healthy leadership. Own your part in the problem. // A painful staff conflict eventually resulted in 10 of the 16 people closest to Adam leaving the church, along with hundreds of attendees. While it was easy initially to blame others, Adam gradually recognized how his own leadership contributed to the situation. He had to confront people-pleasing, his relentless pace, and the ways he had failed to care for his team. That willingness to take responsibility became foundational to Embrace’s recovery. Build a circle that can handle the truth. // Adam leaned heavily on his wife, close friends, therapy, and trusted ministry relationships during his lowest season. These were people who allowed him to express grief, anger, and confusion without abandoning him. They also helped him see blind spots he couldn’t recognize on his own. Leaders need people who love them deeply but aren’t overly impressed by them—people who can offer both support and honest feedback. Learn to pause. // One of the clearest changes in Adam’s leadership today is his willingness to slow down. He pauses more in meetings, accepts when team members say no, and resists the urge to squeeze one more project into the schedule. Rather than automatically pushing for what is possible, he now asks whether pursuing another opportunity will unnecessarily burden the team. Slowing down has helped him become both healthier and more sustainable as a leader. Protect your own soul. // Adam also changed the way he approaches personal health and his relationship with God. Instead of allowing busyness to crowd out time with Jesus, he now increases that time when ministry becomes more demanding. He intentionally creates margin, eats lunch, steps away, and takes breaks that once would have felt unproductive. Use clarity to create focus. // After COVID, Embrace implemented the Traction framework based on the EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) model. The process helped the leadership team revisit its vision, identify its distinctives, define its target audience, and establish a long-term goal. Embrace clarified its mission as “relentlessly reaching the next person for Jesus” and identified relatability as one of its key distinctives. That clarity has helped the church say no to distractions and concentrate energy around its primary mission. Break big vision into smaller steps. // Traction helped Embrace move from a 10-year vision to three-year, one-year, and 90-day priorities. Every 90 days, leaders identify five or six major “rocks” that deserve focused attention. Each rock has a clear owner, measurable milestones, and weekly accountability. Rather than chasing whatever feels urgent or exciting, the team continually returns to the handful of priorities it has already agreed matter most. Let accountability replace micromanagement. // The system has also helped Adam release control. Team members own specific priorities and report whether each one is on track or off track. That accountability means Adam doesn’t have to constantly monitor every detail. The process has increased ownership across the staff while allowing him to function more effectively as the visionary instead of becoming the bottleneck. Listen to the people you serve. // Embrace also uses an annual survey to gather candid feedback from attendees. Open-ended questions reveal recurring patterns that leaders might otherwise miss. One example was parking, an issue Adam barely noticed because he wasn’t experiencing the church like a first-time guest. Listening carefully to people has helped the church identify practical problems and respond before they become barriers to growth. To learn more about Adam Weber or connect, visit adamweber.com or find him on Instagram at @adamaweber. To learn more about Embrace Church, its campuses, and how the church is relentlessly reaching the next person for Jesus, visit iamembrace.com. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Intulse If you’re committed to the growth of your church, make sure your communication systems are set up so nobody feels left behind. When your church is smaller, that comes easy. You know people by name. A guest doesn’t get lost in the shuffle—someone follows up, every guest, every time. But growth can change that—unless your systems grow with you. Perhaps this church using Intulse says it best: “Intulse has revolutionized the way we communicate with people, giving us the ability to make a big church feel small because of that personal connection.” The Intulse app gives your team members a working church number, so anyone can call or text without ever handing out a personal number. Every conversation syncs straight into your ChMS, like Planning Center, so your whole staff stays on the same page—no matter who a person talks to. That’s how you keep every person feeling known, no matter how big your church gets. Want to know if your communication systems are ready for growth? Download Intulse’s free guide, “10 Communication Blind Spots That Hinder Church Growth,” at Intulse.com/unseminary. And if any of those blind spots hit home for you, schedule a call with one of their church communication specialists to learn how Intulse can help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary Podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Listen, lean in on today’s conversation, ah because I know you’re going to have some stuff you can pull out of this for your church. There’s some part of this discussion that’s going to help you as you think through leading in the season you’re currently in.Rich Birch — We’re honored to have Adam Weber with us. He’s the founder and lead pastor of Embrace Church, which began in 2006, with just 32 people gathered at a worship service. Today, it’s a few more than 32. Embrace is one church with, if I’m counting correctly, five campuses worshiping with thousands each week around Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Outreach Magazine named these guys, Embrace, one of the fastest growing churches in the country in 2026. Adam is the author of Talking with God and Love Has a Name. He hosts the Life Between Sundays podcast while he and his wife, Becky, have four kids. Adam, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Adam Weber — Oh, Rich, huge honor. I know I said this before to you. You are someone that I’ve looked to for wisdom, encouragement, insight for many years. And so this for me is a huge honor. And I do I just really don’t take it lightly. Honestly, if it was anything else today, I’m headed to the cabin right after this. If it was anything else, I’d be like, ah, let’s pass on that. But for me, like for me, this is one of those like key true honors. And so I just thank you big time. I’m just on behalf, honestly, of so many people who listen just like me and read your writing. Thank you.Rich Birch — That’s kind of you to say. That’s really kind of you to say. This is between you and the cabin. So we’ll make this quick. We’ll get this. We’ll move this on. I don’t want to…Adam Weber — No. No, there is zero rush. Zero rush.Rich Birch — No, I’m just kidding. That’s that’s great. That’s fantastic. So why don’t you kind of give us the story, the the Embrace story. It’s like 20 years in a few minutes. Adam Weber — Yeah.Rich Birch — Take us back to 2026, back to those 32 people. What did that look like? And then paint the picture of where Embrace is today.Adam Weber — Oh, so I always, when I encourage pastors, I’m like, do the opposite of what we did. So I was going into my third and final year at Asbury Seminary. So I was living in Kentucky and my pastor who led me to Christ, led me to my wife, led me into ministry, led me to Asbury, had the initial idea of a new church in Sioux Falls.Adam Weber — He’s the one who who reached out to me and said, hey, we’re we’re thinking about starting a church in Sioux Falls. What do you think? And I’m like, I think Sioux Falls has enough churches. Rich Birch — Right.Adam Weber — Like I don’t think… and and then who’

  5. Sep 24

    The Myth That’s Quietly Stalling Your Disciple-Making with Vick Green

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Vick Green, CEO of Replicate Ministries and co-author of Movement Ready Church. Replicate helps churches across denominations and sizes strengthen their disciple-making culture, clarify their vision, and mobilize people to make disciples where they live, work, and play. Is your church busy but unsure whether people are actually being transformed? Do you have a clear pathway for discipleship but struggle to see multiplication happen outside your programs? Tune in as Vick challenges several common assumptions about disciple-making and offers practical ways to measure transformation, mobilize people, and create a culture where ministry extends beyond the walls of the church. Activity does not equal transformation. // One of the most common myths Vick sees is the belief that participation automatically produces spiritual growth. Attendance, serving, small groups, and classes are all easy to measure, but they only tell part of the story. A person can be highly engaged in church activity and still experience little personal transformation. Churches need to keep measuring participation while also asking whether people are actually becoming more like Jesus. Build a clearer scoreboard. // Vick compares church metrics to baseball. If you only measured hits, you would miss the point of the game: scoring runs. In the same way, churches can overvalue attendance and engagement because those numbers are easy to track. Vick encourages leaders to develop a transformation scoreboard that measures not only what people are doing but who they are becoming. Incomplete scoreboards tend to produce incomplete disciples. Define your dream disciple. // Every church should be able to describe the kind of disciple it hopes to develop. Vick calls this the “dream disciple.” Rather than relying only on pathway language that tells people what to do, churches should paint a vivid picture of what transformed lives look like. One church describes disciples as having a mind of truth, a voice of hope, a heart of compassion, hands of service, and feet of purpose. That language gives people something meaningful to pursue. Focus on what you want for people. // Churches can unintentionally communicate that they primarily want something from people: attendance, volunteering, giving, or participation. Vick challenges leaders to shift toward communicating what they want for people. A healthy discipleship strategy should help people become better spouses, parents, coworkers, neighbors, and followers of Jesus. When people understand why transformation matters, they become more motivated to engage with the pathway that supports it. Let your discipleship picture shape the culture. // A dream disciple should not live on a poster or disappear after a leadership retreat. It should show up in sermons, kids ministry, membership classes, assessments, volunteer training, and everyday language. Vick highlights churches that use their disciple profile to guide sermon planning, build personalized follow-up, equip parents, and help people identify specific areas where they want to grow. Help people name their kingdom circle. // Vick’s second major metric is whether people can identify the individuals God has placed within their sphere of influence. Every person has a “kingdom circle”—neighbors, coworkers, friends, and family members where they can bring the kingdom of God. The goal is not simply deeper program engagement but helping people take ownership of disciple-making in ordinary life. Equip people for ministry outside the church. // Vick shares the story of a man named Austin who began gathering non-Christian neighbors around a backyard firepit. The church provided simple questions, encouragement, and resources, but Austin led the ministry himself. Eventually those men began attending church, growing in faith, and multiplying into further discipleship relationships. The church’s role was not to replace Austin’s influence but to equip and support him in using it. Clarify leadership and partnership. // To measure ministry beyond church programs, leaders need clarity around three questions: What do we consider a disciple-making leader? How will we equip them? And how will we partner with them? Without shared definitions and a unified approach, every ministry ends up operating differently. Clear expectations make it easier for people to take responsibility for disciple-making in their own context. Challenge the myths beneath your ministry. // Replicate’s Ministry Myths resource helps churches identify faulty beliefs that quietly shape behavior. These myths can create a gap between good intentions and actual impact. By naming assumptions like the engagement myth, teams can begin honest conversations about why multiplication is not happening and what needs to change. Download the free resource Ministry Myths: The 5 Assumptions that Stall Disciple-Making Movements here. Learn more about Vick Green and Replicate by visiting replicate.org. You can also explore the book Movement Ready Church and additional free resources at movementreadychurch.com. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: TouchPoint As your church reaches more people, one of the biggest challenges is making sure no one slips through the cracks along the way.TouchPoint Church Management Software is an all-in-one ecosystem built for churches that want to elevate discipleship by providing clear data, strong engagement tools, and dependable workflows that scale as you grow. TouchPoint is trusted by some of the fastest-growing and largest churches in the country because it helps teams stay aligned, understand who they’re reaching, and make confident ministry decisions week after week. If you’ve been wondering whether your current system can carry your next season of growth, it may be time to explore what TouchPoint can do for you. You can evaluate TouchPoint during a free, no-pressure one-hour demo at TouchPointSoftware.com/demo. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary Podcast. Super excited for you today because you’re going to get front seat with a leader who interacts with literally hundreds, maybe thousands of churches across the country every single year. And we’re going to take advantage of the fact that we got an expert on the line today and try to peel back and help you in an area in your church, which I think will help accelerate your mission as we round out here in 2026 and look into 2027.Rich Birch — Excited to have Vick Green with us. He is the CEO of Replicate Ministry, where he leads a team of coaches and consultants who work with churches every year all across the country in their particular, their disciple-making vision and strategy.Rich Birch — Before Replicate, he served on staff at a fantastic church, Long Hollow Church in Hendersonville and The Chapel in Baton Rouge. He holds, if I’ve got all the numbers and letters correct, an MDiv from New Orleans Baptist and lives in the Nashville area with his wife, Sophie, and their three kids.Rich Birch — He’s the co-author of a great new book that I want to expose you to with Robby, who’s been on the podcast before called Movement Ready Church. Welcome to the podcast, Vick. Glad you’re here.Vick Green — Dude, thanks so much for having me. And what an intro, man. Down to my seminary degree. Wow. Like, that’s impressive. And.Rich Birch — People like that, you know, people like those things. So you’re an expert.Vick Green — There you go.Rich Birch — I just play one on the internet, but you’re like an actual expert.Vick Green — Hey, I appreciate it, Richie. I’ve been following the unSeminary Podcast since those Chapel days, like early on, trying to figure things out. And your podcasts, your books have been a gift. So fun to be on this side of the conversation with you.Rich Birch — I’m honored that that you would do this and really looking forward to expose what you do at Replicate and particularly this book and the kind of the work around that to folks. But why don’t you tell us about Replicate. For folks that are unaware, kind of talk to us about the kinds of churches that you’re interacting with week in, week out.Vick Green — Yeah, so Replicate was started in 2008 by Robby Gallaty. And so Replicate exists to help churches activate their unique disciple-making movement. And so since 2008, we’ve had a burden to see ministry get beyond the walls of the church, beyond the church’s programming. How do we see every person in our church to see themselves as a disciple-maker? And what does it look like to see ministry happening through our people as they make disciples? where they live, work, and play. And so that’s really been our passion since ’08. I joined in 2020. Replicate helped me down in Baton Rouge. I joined in 2020 and we get to work with churches across all denominations, all church sizes in helping them with their culture, vision, and strategy around disciple-making. I think to date, I think we’re over 4,000 now. I think actually closer to 4,500 churches that we’ve trained in that span.Rich Birch — Wow.Vick Green — And so, yeah, every year we’re getting to see around 700, 800 churches a year at this point that we get to work with and and help kin

  6. Sep 17

    A Former Witch, an Ex-Muslim, and an Atheist Walk Into a Baptism Tank with Jon Thompson

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Jon Thompson, senior pastor of Sanctus Church, a multisite church on the east side of Toronto. Jon has served at Sanctus for 25 years and has helped lead the church through seasons of growth, renewal, revival, and cultural change. In this conversation, he shares insights from his latest book, Presence: Resilient Witness in Times of Retreat and Revival, and explores how churches can faithfully witness in an increasingly post-Christian—and even re-paganized—culture. Learn to minister in a re-paganized culture. // Jon believes Canada offers a glimpse of where many parts of the United States may be heading. Churches are increasingly engaging people with little or no Christian memory alongside Muslims, Hindus, atheists, New Agers, nominal Christians, and people shaped by contemporary cultural movements. The challenge is not simply to defend Christian truth, but to communicate the gospel thoughtfully and winsomely to radically different audiences at the same time. Open the three evangelistic doors. // Historically, love, word, and power describe three ways people encounter God. Love demonstrates God’s character through hospitality and care. Word clarifies truth through preaching, apologetics, and teaching. Power reveals God’s presence through experiences such as healing, deliverance, dreams, and other supernatural encounters. Jon argues that churches need all three doors open because different people encounter Jesus through different pathways. Admit your church’s bias. // Most churches naturally lean toward one or two of these categories. Conservative evangelical churches often emphasize word. Other churches may prioritize love through compassion and justice, while still others focus heavily on supernatural experiences. Jon encourages leaders to honestly identify their bias and intentionally elevate the areas they tend to neglect. A healthy church needs all three working together rather than allowing one to dominate. Don’t let fear quench what God is doing. // Jon tells the story of a woman who came to faith out of Hinduism after experiencing visions, spiritual conflict, and encounters with Jesus. When her church removed those elements from her baptism testimony because leaders were uncomfortable with them, she felt that an essential part of her story had been denied. Jon warns that fear, theological bias, and lack of experience can cause churches to suppress genuine ways God may be working in people’s lives. Choose encounter and systems. // Jon believes churches often falsely pit spiritual encounter against organizational structure. Healthy churches need both. Leaders should build systems that support what God is doing without attempting to control it. As spiritual activity increases, churches may need to adjust volunteer processes, pastoral care systems, staff expectations, and leadership structures. The goal is not to eliminate order but to make the organization flexible enough to respond when circumstances change. Understand renewal, revival, and awakening. // Jon distinguishes between renewal, revival, and awakening. Renewal is the recovery of first love in individual believers. Revival is a sovereign move of God that He initiates and ends where sin is revealed and there’s widespread healing. Awakening happens when revival leads to widespread conversion. Leaders should not assume revival is guaranteed, but they should remain faithful and responsive whether God brings extraordinary renewal or simply calls them to steady obedience in an ordinary season. Start by refusing to resist God. // Before changing structures or launching new ministries, Jon believes leaders should begin with a simple posture: “Lord, whatever you want to do, I won’t fight you.” Many pastors love God but still struggle to trust Him when ministry becomes unpredictable. Jon encourages leaders to confront their fear, relinquish control, and remain open to correction, repentance, and change. To learn more about Jon Thompson and his books, including Convergence, Perseverance, Presence, and the upcoming re-release of Deliverance, visit jonthompsonresources.com or Amazon.com. Other Conversations with Jon Thompson Reflections on Christian Ministry at the Halfway Point with Jon Thompson // February 8, 2024 What if John Stott, John Wimber, Dallas Willard & Andy Stanley Planted a Church with Jon Thompson? // March 14, 2019 Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Portable Church Your church is doing really well right now, and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep momentum going! It could be time to start a new location. Maybe you have hesitated in the past few years, but you know it’s time to step out in faith again and launch that next location. Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, Rich from the unSeminary Podcast. Listen, you’re going to want to lean in today for this conversation because I think this kind what you’re going to get a sneak peek on is something that’s impacting churches all over the world that’s having, I think, an interesting kind of moment and is maybe points to a bit of where God is at work. And I think could for many churches that are listening in today, give them a sense of maybe some next steps, what the kind of evolution or the development of their church, what that could look like for the future.Rich Birch — Plus, it’s one of those times where I get to talk with like a real live friend, somebody that I know from the real world, not just on the internet, which is so fun. Excited to have Jon Thompson with us. He is the senior pastor at Sanctus Church, a multi-site church in the east side of Toronto with four in-person locations plus church online. This church began in 1985 with just 40 people meeting and now averages over 2,600 weekend attendees with a plan to reach 3,600 by the end of the decade and open a sixth site in the T. Dot in Toronto in the six by 2030. Rich Birch — Jon has served at Sanctus for 25 years, starting as a youth pastor before becoming the senior pastor. He holds both a masters from Tyndale and a doctorate from Fuller. He grew up in Ecuador from missionary parents, he and his wife, Joanna, who’s incredible, have three kids. His books include Convergence, Deliverance, and Perseverance. And the brand new one that I’m excited to have him talk about today, Presence: Resilient Witness in Times of Retreat and Revival. And it’s from our friends at Zondervan Reflective.Rich Birch — Jon, welcome to the show. I am so glad that you’re here today. Welcome.Jon Thompson — Yeah great to be here. Great to be back on the podcast. Hang out with a real friend, like you said, and hi to anyone listening anywhere around the world today.Rich Birch — Yeah, this is good. I’m excited for this. For folks that haven’t maybe picked up a past episode, which you haven’t, you should go go back and find them. Jon’s been on a couple times, a few times. But give us kind of a picture of a normal Sunday at Sanctus. Who’s in the room? Give us a flavor for the church.Jon Thompson —  Yeah, so our church is located, like you said, on the east side of Toronto. And some of your viewers will know this, but lots might might not. Toronto is the most multicultural city on earth, more than London, more than, well, LA, more than New York, more than Singapore, more than Hong Kong. And so there’s between 150 and 300 heart languages spoken every single day in our amazing city, by the way, you got to come to Toronto. The food culture is unbelievable…Rich Birch — That’s true. That is true.Jon Thompson — …and unparalleled because everyone’s here. So on a Sunday morning, depending on our locations, again, because we have rural sites, urban sites, and suburban sites, which makes life interesting to say the least, but we probably got 55 plus identified nationalities. We probably I think we’re on 13 on staff right now. And so everything from someone from Hong Kong to someone who’s moved here from Pakistan. We’ve got Congolese. We’ve got Irish. I mean just fill in the blank and you’re going to discover the amazing diversity of the human race on this side of heaven. And we you know we made a decision a long time ago that we were going to fight for Revelation 7 on this side of uh the moment. Rich Birch — So good. Jon Thompson — And it’s exciting, it’s hard, it’s difficult, and it’s um and it’s worth it.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. You know, Canada is and I know we share this conviction. I know you’ve said it and I’ve said it on other podcasts when we’ve had Canadian friends on the podcast. But I think it’s rea

  7. Sep 10

    Making Scripture Come Alive for People Who Think They’ve Heard It All with Jason Hildebrand

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Jason Hildebrand, founder of Presence Creative Arts. For nearly 30 years, Jason has used acting, storytelling, film, and coaching to help people encounter scripture in fresh ways while creating space to listen for the voice of God. How can churches use art and storytelling to help people slow down and engage with God more deeply? What happens when creativity becomes less about delivering a message and more about creating space for transformation? Tune in as Jason shares the journey behind The Shepherd and the Sound, a contemplative film exploring the life of David, and the lessons he has learned about creativity, obedience, presence, and storytelling. Create space for people to slow down. // We are living in an age of distraction and disconnection. Rather than creating another piece of content people consume quickly, The Shepherd and the Sound intentionally slows viewers down. The pacing, landscape, music, and storytelling create space for people to become present to what is happening inside themselves and to listen for God. Jason has seen viewers reach instinctively for their phones before realizing they are being invited to remain present in the experience. Help people find themselves in the story. // One of Jason’s biggest discoveries during the project was that powerful storytelling gives people room to recognize their own experiences within a biblical narrative. Instead of simply explaining David’s life, the film invites viewers to encounter themes like failure, loss, lament, family, identity, and grace. As people see pieces of their own stories reflected in David’s journey, the biblical story becomes personal rather than distant. Tell stories that reveal real people. // Jason’s work has consistently focused on embodying scripture rather than simply presenting information about it. Whether performing the life of Jesus, Job, Abraham, or David, he wants audiences to experience biblical characters as real human beings with emotions, struggles, failures, and desires. For Jason, faithful storytelling does not require removing the humanity from scripture. Rather, bringing that humanity forward can actually help people encounter the truth of the story more deeply. Obedience often comes before clarity. // The journey to produce The Shepherd and the Sound required Jason to move forward without having every answer. After sensing that God was calling the team to film in Scotland, Jason received confirmation from trusted prayer partners and advisors and stepped out financially before the resources were available. Shortly afterward, donors began providing what the project needed. The process reinforced Jason’s conviction that listening carefully and responding obediently sometimes means moving before the entire path is visible. Let God handle the transformation. // Early in his career, Jason wrestled with whether Christian art needed to be more overtly evangelistic. He eventually sensed God reminding him that transformation was God’s responsibility, not his. Jason’s role was to faithfully create excellent art while carrying the presence of Christ into the work. That realization released him from forcing a message into every project and allowed him to focus on creating truthful, beautiful stories that invite people into deeper questions. Gather people for shared experiences. // Rather than immediately releasing The Shepherd and the Sound onto a streaming platform, Jason and his team have prioritized live screenings. People gather in theaters or creative spaces, are invited to slow down before the film begins, experience the story together, and then participate in conversation afterward. Jason believes transformation often happens differently when people experience something in community rather than consuming it alone. Extend the experience beyond the film. // The Shepherd and the Sound has grown into more than a movie. Presence Creative Arts has developed an immersive gallery with eight stations exploring themes from the film along with a small group resource incorporating scripture, reflection, sensory experiences, and action. These tools help churches move people beyond simply watching a story and toward personally engaging with what God may be stirring in them. To learn more about Jason Hildebrand and Presence Creative Arts, visit presencecreativearts.com. You can also explore The Shepherd and the Sound and learn about screenings and resources at theshepherdandthesoundfilm.com. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Intulse If you’re committed to the growth of your church, make sure your communication systems are set up so nobody feels left behind. When your church is smaller, that comes easy. You know people by name. A guest doesn’t get lost in the shuffle—someone follows up, every guest, every time. But growth can change that—unless your systems grow with you. Perhaps this church using Intulse says it best: “Intulse has revolutionized the way we communicate with people, giving us the ability to make a big church feel small because of that personal connection.” The Intulse app gives your team members a working church number, so anyone can call or text without ever handing out a personal number. Every conversation syncs straight into your ChMS, like Planning Center, so your whole staff stays on the same page—no matter who a person talks to. That’s how you keep every person feeling known, no matter how big your church gets. Want to know if your communication systems are ready for growth? Download Intulse’s free guide, “10 Communication Blind Spots That Hinder Church Growth,” at Intulse.com/unseminary. And if any of those blind spots hit home for you, schedule a call with one of their church communication specialists to learn how Intulse can help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. I am so glad that you’ve decided to tune in today. Listen, friends, give us this next half an hour or so, and I think you’re going to be challenged and encouraged. I think it’s going great conversation. Rich Birch — This is a person that I have, you know, a friend of a friend we met, and I want you to meet them as well. But more than that, I think that this conversation could lead to something that could really help your church later this year, maybe into next year. I want to introduce you to Jason Hildebrand. He runs, leads an organization called Presence Creative Arts. Rich Birch — It was formed close to 25 years ago, or the deep desire to create and perform authentic, hope-filled, spirit-infused stories. Part storyteller, he’s part creative catalyst. This is going to be a fantastic conversation. He’s produced a bunch of different projects that we’re going to get a chance to kind of tiptoe into, learn a little bit more about. Jason, welcome to the podcast. So glad you’re here. Jason Hildebrand — Hey Rich, thanks so much. So great to be here. Rich Birch — Yeah, I’m pumped to to kind of have this conversation. Jason Hildebrand — Me as well. Rich Birch — So friends, to to pull back the veil a little bit, Jason’s a friend of a friend. Jason Hildebrand — Yeah. Rich Birch — And we were talking a little bit about what he does. And I started digging in and literally I thought, man, I’ve got to get Jason on the podcast. So for folks who maybe have not encountered Presence Creative Arts, take us back and kind of tell us the story. Jason Hildebrand — Sure. Rich Birch — How did this whole thing get started? Jason Hildebrand — Well, funny enough, my my wife was saying to me yesterday, in September, isn’t it 30 years, Jason? And I was like, oh my gosh, 30 years. Rich Birch — Oh, ah that’s funny. Jason Hildebrand — So we were like, whoa, it kind of snuck up on us. Rich Birch — Yes. Jason Hildebrand — But I mean, the whole genesis was, ah you know, I’m an actor by trade. I have a undergrad and a master’s in acting. And, you know, all those years ago, I graduated from York University in Toronto, Canada, and went out and I was like the fresh young wanted to be in, you know, Hollywood movies or to do Shakespeare or whatever. And, and in the midst of all that, God just like, halted the whole thing and had me completely move in an entirely different direction. And my first solo theater show was on the life of David. Jason Hildebrand — And I had a district superintendent in the denomination that I was a part of take me around to all the pastors conferences. And I he would speak and I would perform. And that was kind of like the beginning of what I never would have conceived would become a career. And now 30 years later, like a full company with employees and and you know projects and all those kind of things. And yeah I was an actor who just wanted to get on stage. And and really really, the thing is, and and I’ve learned this over the 30 years, is that my place of deepest listening for the voice of God is in front a whole bunch of people standing, which is really a weird thing to say. Jason Hildebrand — But, you know, I think it speaks to how we’re all wired differently and we need to find that thing that allows us to hear most clearly the voice of

  8. Sep 3

    From Imitation to Innovation: Finding Your Church’s Own DNA with Sam Hamstra

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Sam Hamstra, Lead Pastor of Anthem Church, a fast-growing, multi-ethnic and multi-generational church serving Northwest Indiana and Chicagoland. Anthem became an independent church in March 2020—the same week the world shut down—and has since grown to multiple locations and thousands of people. In this conversation, Sam shares how clarity around mission, values, discipleship, and vision has helped Anthem develop a distinct ministry culture and sustain healthy growth. Does your church know exactly who it is and how it does ministry? Are your leaders aligned around a shared playbook—or are you borrowing someone else’s model without adapting it to your context? Sam offers practical lessons on creating organizational clarity that shapes everything from calendars to leadership development. Move from imitation to innovation. // Sam is quick to acknowledge how much Anthem learned from churches and networks that came before them. But even before Anthem launched, he began recognizing that another church’s model could not simply be copied and pasted into Northwest Indiana. The local culture, demographics, ministry environment, and people were different. Healthy leaders learn from others while also doing the harder work of discerning what God is uniquely calling their church to become. Clarity takes courage. // Copying an established model feels safe because leaders can see evidence that it works somewhere else. Developing your own approach requires greater faith because the outcome is less predictable. Sam believes churches must have the courage to move into that uncertainty. Rather than endlessly chasing the next successful strategy, leaders should prayerfully identify the unique blueprint God has given their church and commit to it. Define your “way.” // Inspired by Patrick Lencioni’s The Advantage, Sam and his leadership team spent roughly nine months working through five foundational questions: Why do we exist? How do we behave? What do we do? How do we live? Where are we going? Their answers eventually became what they call “The Anthem Way”—a framework that brings clarity to mission, values, discipleship, spiritual formation, and long-term vision. Mission and vision are not the same thing. // Anthem’s mission is to lead people to know Christ and make Him known. That mission remains constant because it flows from the Great Commission. Vision answers a different question: where is God taking this particular church? Separating those ideas has helped Anthem distinguish between the timeless calling of the church and the specific future they believe God is leading them toward. Let your discipleship pathway drive the calendar. // One of the biggest benefits of clarity has been simplifying Anthem’s yearly ministry calendar. Instead of allowing every ministry to bring new ideas and events to the table, leaders evaluate opportunities through their defined discipleship pathway. The result is greater focus and consistency. Sam says their annual rhythm has remained largely the same for years, helping both staff and attenders understand what comes next. Boring can be a strength. // Churches often feel pressure to constantly create something new, but Sam has learned that repetition can be one of the greatest drivers of health. Anthem maintains a weekly prayer gathering, predictable discipleship rhythms, and recurring ministry events rather than continually reinventing the calendar. The goal is not novelty. It is consistency around the few things the church believes matter most. Create intentional invite moments. // Anthem builds four major invite opportunities into its annual rhythm: Easter, a Summer Kickoff, Homecoming, and Christmas. These predictable moments give the congregation specific opportunities to invite friends and family. Sam has seen the church grow following these events because people know when the church is intentionally creating space for them to bring someone who may not normally attend. Values have to become behaviors. // Anthem’s core values include “We Love People,” “We Choose Joy,” and “We Bleed Passion.” But Sam emphasizes that values only matter when people can see them lived out. Loving people means creating a culture where people can belong before they behave. Choosing joy means approaching ministry with gratitude rather than obligation. Bleeding passion means refusing to settle for the status quo and remaining willing to change as God leads. Use clarity to protect multisite culture. // As Anthem expands to additional locations, the Anthem Way provides clear boundaries for what must remain consistent. Sam is not claiming Anthem’s approach is the only way to do church, but he does believe it is important for every one of their locations to understand and embody Anthem’s distinct way of doing ministry. That documented clarity gives leaders freedom while protecting the culture across campuses. Check out Anthem Church’s About page to see how their story, mission, values, and discipleship pathway fit together. You can also follow @SamHamstra and @ThisIsAnthemChurch on Instagram. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Really looking forward to today’s conversation. This is a funny one because literally yesterday I was talking to a church in a coaching call. We were talking about this exact issue that we’re going to unpack today. They’re wrestling with these things. I know that this is going to help you. So you’ve tuned in for a great conversation today with Sam Hamstra. Super excited to have him. He and his wife, Taylor, they founded Anthem Church in March 2020 with a vision and heart to lead people to know Christ and make them know known. Rich Birch — Over the past few years they have seen this mission become a reality, continues to grow. It’s a multi-ethnic, multi-generational family made up of thousands of people from all walks of life in Northwestern Indiana, Chicagoland, and beyond. It’s one of the fastest growing churches in the country. So honored that you’re with us today, Sam. Welcome.Sam Hamstra — Rich, so honored to be with you. This is a full circle moment for me. I’ve been following you for quite some time. So super honored to be on your on your show.Rich Birch — Oh, come on. That’s I’m glad you’re here. We, we’ve got a lot to learn from you today. So March, 2020, it’s one of those dates that sticks in all of our brains. Cause like, we all know, what were you doing? March 15th, 2020. We all can say exactly what we’re, where we were. That’s a wild month to, to launch.Rich Birch — It’s funny because I keep bumping into people who are telling a similar story. They’re like, we started during the pandemic, right at the beginning, right after that sort of thing. Give us a picture today and kind of from that moment all the way on to today, kind of bring the story, bring us, tell us a little bit about Anthem. Give us a flavor of the church.Sam Hamstra — Yeah, so we currently today we’re headquartered in Hammond, Indiana, which when we say Indiana, different people have different thoughts. But we’re we’re actually butting up to Chicago.Rich Birch — Yep.Sam Hamstra — Joking around right now, we’re going to be the future home of the Chicago Bears soon.Rich Birch — Nice.Sam Hamstra — Yeah. But um yeah, so we’re headquartered in Hammond. Our second location is in Merrillville, Indiana, about 30 minutes from here. So currently um our family’s grown to about 2,500 people in English. And we also have a Spanish service as well. And God’s done a phenomenal work over a six-year time frame.Sam Hamstra — Yeah, so we did launch in March of 2020. Our first Sunday was the same Sunday the world shut down.Rich Birch — Wow.Sam Hamstra — And so the third week of March was our first service on the internet.Rich Birch — Dude, that’s amazing.Sam Hamstra — Yeah.Rich Birch — That’s incredible.Sam Hamstra — Yes. So in God’s divine plan, kind of underneath our origin story, we we were actually a part of a church in Tinley Park, Illinois. We were a location of that church called Christian Life Center.Sam Hamstra — And our senior pastor and I, Pastor Jerry McQuay, we had been having an ongoing conversation about him making us independent, which is a whole long story. And he decided to really lean into what he believed God was doing in our lives and in this region and made us independent in God’s divine plan. That started in March of 2020. Rich Birch — Wow.Sam Hamstra — And so we transitioned from being a multi part of a multi site church a location up to being independent in March. And yeah, we started with nothing. We didn’t have any cameras, didn’t have anything. I called our media guy and said, do you have anything at your house? And he brought it. Yeah.Rich Birch — What gear you got in your basement? Yeah, that’s amazing.Sam Hamstra — Yeah and he he brought a camera from his house. And yeah, that’s how we started. One continuous shot streaming online. And that was the start of Anthem Church in March of 2020.Rich Birch — Wow. Yeah, that’s amazing.Sam Hamstra — So God’s done a great work.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s incredible. That’s cool to hea

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About

stuff you wish they taught in seminary.

Information

  • Creator
    Rich Birch
  • Years Active
    2013 - 2026
  • Episodes
    300
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © unSeminary & Rich Birch
  • Show Website
    unSeminary Podcast

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