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Two by Two

The Ken

The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

  1. With Noice, Swiggy picks the 3rd path in quick commerce

    VOR 1 TAG • NUR THE KEN PREMIUM

    With Noice, Swiggy picks the 3rd path in quick commerce

    Swiggy has launched Noice, a private label brand that's popping up across categories on Instamart. But is this a genuine brand-building play or just another experiment destined for Swiggy's product graveyard? In this episode, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Sandeep Nair ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandeepnairtvpm/ ), co-founder of brand strategy consultancy David & Who and former Swiggy marketing director, and Mrunmayi Oke ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrunmayi-oke/?originalSubdomain=in ), SVP of Strategy at Zilo and former head of business at Dunzo. Together, they debate whether Noice is Swiggy's answer to Kirkland or closer to Amazon Solimo with ‘truck-style’ packaging. The conversation explores short-term performance metrics and long-term brand building, why most private labels fail, what makes retailers like Costco and Aldi succeed, and whether Swiggy has the organisational discipline to stick with this strategy. They also discuss the economics of private labels and what it takes to build a brand that consumers actually trust. ____ This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ). ____ Additional reading: 1. Swiggy used to be a playground for innovation. Now, it’s a graveyard ( https://the-ken.com/story/swiggy-used-to-be-a-playground-for-innovation-now-its-a-graveyard/?searchTerm=swiggy%20product%20graveyard&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page ) by Gaurav Bagur 2. Pepsi’s biggest bottler is pouring more cola to fight Reliance’s Campa ( https://the-ken.com/story/pepsis-biggest-bottler-is-pouring-more-cola-to-fight-reliances-campa/?searchTerm=campa&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page ) by Aakriti Bhalla 3. Two by Two episode 5- Swiggy needs to reclaim its past glory ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/swiggy-needs-to-reclaim-its-past-glory/ ) 4. Two by Two episode 26- Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" cafe ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/zomato-swiggy-and-the-rise-of-the-10-minute-dark-cafe/ ) 5. Two by Two episode 45- Are we seeing the unbundling of quick commerce? ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/are-we-seeing-the-unbundling-of-quick-commerce/ ) 6. Two by Two episode 72- Can Urban Company avoid BigBasket’s fate? ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/can-urban-company-avoid-bigbaskets-fate/ )

    1 Std. 21 Min.
  2. Can Urban Company avoid BigBasket’s fate?

    15. JAN. • NUR THE KEN PREMIUM

    Can Urban Company avoid BigBasket’s fate?

    Urban Company has spent years building trust as the go-to platform for home services. But a new generation of founders is now using the Zepto playbook to target its most profitable segments. On Two by Two this week, Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Arpit Agarwal ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/arpit105/?originalSubdomain=in ), a partner at Blume Ventures. The conversation explores the wedge strategy: how specialized startups like Snabbit and Dazzl are driving deep into specific categories like household help and beauty services. Arpit explains why horizontal giants are often wired like sloths, making it difficult for them to stay nimble when a fast moving dragonfly startup attacks a single category. The hosts also discuss the operational shift from scheduled slots to instant supply. They look at how these new players are treating human labor as an engineering problem, using heat maps and demand prediction to promise services in minutes ( https://the-ken.com/story/hari-menon-has-to-save-bigbasket-from-itself/ ). But can you actually standardize a home cleaning or a cooking service without losing quality? It is a deep dive into the battle for your living room and whether efficiency will eventually take over brand loyalty. _______This episode of was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ). We’d love to hear from you.

    1 Std. 13 Min.
  3. How can restaurants scale sustainably?

    8. JAN. • NUR THE KEN PREMIUM

    How can restaurants scale sustainably?

    Running a successful restaurant is hard. Scaling one without losing what made it special is even harder. This week on Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar talk to two people who are deep in that fight: Sameer Seth ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/sameer-seth-40b28a1a/?originalSubdomain=in ), founder and CEO of Hunger Inc. Hospitality (The Bombay Canteen, O Pedro, Veronica's, Papa's, Bombay Sweet Shop), and Karan Kapur ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/karan-kapur13/ ), Executive Director of K Hospitality Group (Copper Chimney, Bombay Brasserie, The Irish House). The conversation starts with why restaurants are so difficult to scale. Real estate is expensive and hard to find. Tastes change across cities as India isn't one market, it's several. And unlike other businesses, restaurants have to produce and serve the product at the exact same moment, which makes consistency brutal. Sameer and Karan walk through the transition every restaurateur has to make: from artist (creating the magic of the first restaurant) to scientist (building systems that let you do it again and again without losing the soul). They talk about diversification and why Sameer kept all his brands in Mumbai while expanding formats. Also why Karan thinks the big inflection point won't come until India's GDP per capita hits $5,000, which he estimates will be around 2032. They then discuss micro-dining. Pappas serves just 12 people, four times a week, and it works because Veronica's next door serves 300 and pays the rent. They talk about why Bombay Sweet Shop started as a Willy Wonka-style mithai factory. And they tackle the bigger question in the end: in an age where everything comes to your door in 10 minutes, what will keep people going out to restaurants?______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com or comment below.

    1 Std. 11 Min.
  4. 2025 Year-end special

    25.12.2025

    2025 Year-end special

    2025 is done. Forty-eight episodes. Hundreds of guests. Endless banter between Rohin and Praveen. This year, Two by Two covered stories from Bengaluru to the world including business, tech, and everything in between. We didn't just stick to the usual. We asked about people, trends, and the things others weren't paying attention to. We brought on guests who didn't rehearse their answers and tried to make sense of things as they happened. Some episodes turned out to be prescient. Some were messy. Some sparked arguments in our inbox. All of them tried to do what we set out to do: spot hidden connections, ask unasked questions, and figure out what's really going on. This final episode is Rohin looking back at six moments from the year with clips from conversations that stood out. Between each one, he adds context and some behind-the-scenes perspective on why it mattered. Here are the episodes featured: Episode 26: Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" caféEpisode 31: Airtel fights spammers. And Truecaller's business modelEpisode 47: Who broke Bengaluru, and how do we fix our cities?Episode 50: In an AI age, India does not have an open source strategyEpisode 51: The invisible whale that capsized India's leaky options boatsEpisode 66: What will bring ambition back from the dead?To everyone who listened, argued with us, sent guest suggestions, or just stuck around, thank you. Next year, we're coming back with everything that makes Two by Two what it is, but bigger and better. Maybe even a few surprises. Stay tuned. There won't be an episode next Thursday. We will return on January 8th, 2026. See you in the new year.________ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. If you have suggestions for guests, episodes or even changes we could make. Please write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com or comment below.

    55 Min.
  5. 60 seconds for every 2025 episode

    18.12.2025

    60 seconds for every 2025 episode

    As we try to wind down this year, Rohin and Praveen do something they’ve never done before: go through every single episode they recorded this year. All 48 of them. In 60 minutes. The rules were simple. Each host had 10 points to build their personal top 10 list for the year. No take-backs, and no pre-discussion. It was a completely live, vibe-based recording where they figured it out as they went. What follows is a rapid-fire sprint through the year. From Amazon India’s struggles to the electric car slowdown, from B-school placements to the rise of quick commerce dark stores, and from Razorpay versus Juspay to the chaos of concert infrastructure in India. They cover it all—the hits, the misses, the prescient calls, and the episodes they wish had gone differently. Along the way, they debate whether episodes were too speculative, too early, or just not memorable enough. By the end, they’re locked in a tight race with only five episodes left and one point each remaining. Because it wouldn't be Two by Two without a matrix, we plotted the results of their debate. Take a look at the graphic to see which episodes they both loved (the green zone) versus their personal favourites. It is chaotic, nostalgic, and a perfect preview of what 2025 looked like through the lens of Two by Two. ______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. With 48 episodes in the books, this is the perfect starting point for anyone looking to catch up on the defining business stories of 2025. If you liked this sprint through the year, please share it with someone who loves a good deep dive. Have your own "vibe-based" arguments about our list? We’re all ears. Reach out at twobytwo@the-ken.com or leave a comment.

    55 Min.
  6. QIP, IPO, Bubble. Why Swiggy, Zepto, and Blinkit see quick commerce differently

    11.12.2025 • NUR THE KEN PREMIUM

    QIP, IPO, Bubble. Why Swiggy, Zepto, and Blinkit see quick commerce differently

    Swiggy just raised a billion dollars in its IPO last year. Now it needs another ₹10,000 crores. That's not a great sign. On Two by Two this week, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar try to make sense of the chaos in India's quick commerce space. Joining them are Ashwin Mehta ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashwin-mehta-b458a43/?originalSubdomain=in ), head of research at Ambit Capital, and Anand Kalyanaraman ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/anand-kalyanaraman-35685bb3/ ), finance editor at The Ken. Here's what happened: Zepto suddenly dropped all fees, forcing Swiggy to scramble and match. Blinkit's CEO is out there declaring the bubble could burst any day now, even though his company is comfortably winning. And everyone's burning cash like there's no tomorrow. The conversation breaks down why this sector is heading for trouble. They argue India can only support around 12,000 dark stores, and we're already at 70% of that. They discuss why Swiggy keeps reacting to what Zepto does instead of leading its own way. And here's a striking stat: the average quick commerce user spends ₹45,000 a year per household. That tells you exactly who this market is really for and why it might be more limited than everyone thinks. It's a messy race where nobody's backing down and the next 12 months will decide who survives. ________ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com or comment below.

    1 Std. 11 Min.
  7. The bro-ification of business and tech podcasts

    04.12.2025

    The bro-ification of business and tech podcasts

    "When you called me yesterday, I came up with eight different reasons to say no to you." That's Kosturi Ghosh, partner at Tri-Legal, explaining why she almost didn't show up for this podcast. It's a revealing admission and one that gets to the heart of why business and tech podcasts have such a lopsided gender problem. This week on Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar do something uncomfortable: they examine their own track record. Joined by Kosturi and Swapnika Nag, co-founder and CEO of Periscope, they confront the fact that 95% of guests on Two by Two have been men. A recent USC Annenberg study found that business and tech podcasts have the worst gender split of any genre—92.3% male guests. The conversation explores why this happens, from relying on existing networks and the challenges of cold outreach, to the fact that women are held to different standards when speaking publicly. They also debate whether this is even a problem worth solving, given that the representation issue starts much earlier—in boardrooms, founder circles, and senior leadership positions. The group discusses what can be done differently: building trust over time and being more intentional about guest planning. They also touch on imposter syndrome and why men seem more comfortable winging it.  It's a moment of self-reflection with no easy answers, but plenty of ideas on how to do better in 2026._______ Additional readings: USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative (November 2025) Accidental Feminism: Gender Parity and Selective Mobility among India’s Professional Elite by Swethaa S. Ballakrishnen _______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com or comment below.

    1 Std. 7 Min.
  8. Meesho has come a long way. How much farther will it go?

    27.11.2025

    Meesho has come a long way. How much farther will it go?

    This week on Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar dissect Meesho's strategy with Adarsh Menon (partner at Fireside Ventures and former head of Shopsy at Flipkart) and Ganesh Nagasekar (founder of GSN Invest). Fresh off filing its DRHP, Meesho has gotten here by doing everything differently. Zero commission when competitors charged fees. Optimizing for cost when others raced for speed. Building a logistics arm that slashed delivery costs. All while serving 210 million middle-class customers that Flipkart and Amazon had largely ignored. The conversation explores what actually sets Meesho apart—is it the data science powering three-quarters of its orders, the seller economics that let merchants triple revenue in a year, or something else? And more importantly, where does it go from here? The group debates whether Meesho should push deeper into logistics, experiment with content commerce, or solve the cash-on-delivery mess that's creating hidden costs across the business. Sections: 1. What makes Meesho different?2. The zero commission bet 3. Valmo: Building a logistics business from scratch4. Where it goes next5. Meesho as India's Walmart This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues who would be interested in listening. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we'd love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com or comment below.

    1 Std. 25 Min.
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The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

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