Entangled Futures

Lucas Tauil

A podcast exploring Mutuality Conversations towards a world that work for everyone About us Entangled Futures is a podcast exploring the world of mutuality, produced by Lucas Tauil. Engaging in conversation with the people shaping collective spaces, we aim to identify adjacent possibilities— new opportunities for collaboration and innovation—that nourish a planet where everyone can thrive. This work is the result of the excellence and dedication of an amazing team: Ira Nezhynska led the design, Kika created the music, Clara Chemin was the narrator, Paul d'Aoust developed the website, Mamading Ceesay handled the infrastructure, Matthew Nichols took care of integration and Jonathan Patecki edited the animations. Support us Come together! Help us bring the next season to life. You can support the show with a credit card on our Patreon page, (https://patreon.com/EntangledFutures) or with crypto using the Ethereum wallet, ENS: entangledfutures.eth. 0x24055dB18b971f24C3BFAB623A24Ee6c2b04F921 Sponsored by The show is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that helps people team up, share information, and solve their own problems together—without needing a middle-man. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. Host Lucas Tauil is a trained, and seasoned communicator focused on participative culture and collaboration. Connected to the world of sustainability and decentralised technology he has worked as a Journalist for two decades in mainstream media.  Working with the power of difference and collective intelligence on multiple stakeholders organisations since 2001, Lucas is part of Enspiral, a collective of people working on stuff that matters.  Together with his partner Sandra Chemin and eight other families, Lucas co-founded Quintal Magico, a communitarian Steiner school in Paraty, Brazil. The couple sailed for six years with their two daughters from England to New Zealand.

Episodes

  1. Fungi to Finance: Mycelial Patterns in Governance

    18/09/2025

    Fungi to Finance: Mycelial Patterns in Governance

    In this episode, Jeff Emmett, author of Exploring MyCofi: Mycelial Design Patterns for Web3 and Beyond, shares insights on how fungi can inspire the redesign of governance and economic systems. As a co-founder of the Common Stack and token engineering researcher at BlockScience, Jeff has developed tools and blueprints for communities to tackle collective action problems. Drawing on natural patterns, he explores how mycelium-inspired frameworks can increase institutional resilience, enable regenerative economies, and foster mutuality. The conversation touches on the intersections of ecology, distributed technologies, and governance. Jeff discusses how lessons from fungi—such as resource allocation, fractal structures, and adaptogenic resilience—can be applied to human systems. He also examines experiments in decentralized finance, governance models like conviction voting, and the potential for nested economies. Jeff explores: How mycelial principles inspire new governance and resource allocation systemsWhy diverse, local, and fractalized economies are more resilientWhat regenerative finance can learn from ecological cycles Watch this episode on YouTube Listen to this episode: Apple Podcasts Spotify Pocket Casts RSS Feed Themes Mycelial Design Principles – How fungi’s resource allocation and coherence can inform economic and governance systems.Fractal and Nested Economies – Building resilient, decentralized economies that scale from local to global.Alternative Governance Models – Exploring conviction voting, bonding curves, and trust-based signaling.Mutual Credit and Generosity – Lessons from ecological support networks for economic cooperation.Adaptogenic Principles – Translating resilience and adaptability from biology into organizational design.Decentralized Finance and Inclusion – How distributed ledgers and offline transactions can enable bottom-up economies. Timestamps 00:00 — Institutional neuroplasticity and Mycofi principles02:06 — Introducing Jeff Emmett and his work03:07 — Background: from distributed systems to fungi05:45 — Fungal coherence and resource allocation07:34 — Six design principles inspired by fungi09:41 — Beyond money: multidimensional value systems12:35 — Lessons from fungi for governance in times of abundance and decay15:21 — Underground networks and mutual credit17:57 — Governance mechanisms and biomimicry18:35 — Streaming trust and adaptive governance models22:12 — Global experiments in governance: Taiwan, Ethereum, and beyond26:33 — Conviction voting explained29:54 — Bonding curves as economic membranes32:35 — Distributed ledger tech and shifts in power37:29 — Nested economies and ecological parallels40:19 — Stable currencies without violence-based enforcement42:09 — Wealth Defense Industry and resource distribution45:23 — Arbitrage and mushrooms as natural equilibrators47:01 — Gradients of mutualism and economic incentives49:53 — Subsidiarity and supersediarity in governance52:24 — Adaptogenic principles and psilocybinetics54:59 — Trophic levels and upcycling of energy56:53 — DeFi and resilient bottom-up economies59:01 — Offline transactions and financial inclusion1:00:28 — Designing ideal bottom-up economies1:03:46 — Validated data, experimentation, and the future of governance1:04:13 — Closing reflections Resources Exploring MyCofi: Mycelial Design Patterns for Web3 and Beyond – Jeff EmmettPaul StametsMerlin Sheldrake – Entangled LifeToby Kiers – Research on fungal marketsMichael ZarghamBernard Lietaer – Community currenciesElinor Ostrom – Principles for managing commonsDonella Meadows – Thinking in SystemsAstrid Scholz - Tackling the Wealth Defense IndustryAudrey TangMichel Bauwens Transcript: Jeff Emmett (00:00) If these adaptogenic mushrooms help our brains grow new neural pathways as individuals, maybe if we apply these Mycofi principles in organizations, they can increase institutional neuroplasticity. They can allow for new ways to sense things, new ways to cohere around what's important and new ways to act by creating these sensing governance pathways and these acting funding pathways and allow them to proliferate in new organizational forms. Lucas Tauil (00:32) Welcome to Entangled Futures with Lucas Tauil where we explore mutuality in conversations towards a world that works for everyone. Lucas Tauil (00:50) This episode is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that allows people to team up, share information, and solve their own problems without needing a middleman. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. I first came across the project in 2018. During my journey into participative culture with Unsparil. My good friend Hailey Cooperider pointed me to the green paper and I was blown away by the vision of a local first decentralized internet. I worked for five years on the project and feel very grateful for the support with the show. Enjoy it. Lucas Tauil (02:06) Today we welcome Jeff Emmett, the author of Exploring MyCofi, Mycelial Design Patterns for Web3 and Beyond. Observing natural patterns, Jeff has been modeling novel governance and economic patterns. Co-founder of the Common Stack and token engineering researcher at BlockScience, Jeff designed tools and blueprints for communities to solve collective action problems. By targeting governance and incentives alignment, his work supports communities towards economic sustainability. Welcome, Jeff. It is a pleasure to have you with us. Jeff Emmett (02:50) Thanks very much. Happy to be here. Always enjoy our conversations. Lucas Tauil (02:52) Nice, nice. Yeah it's always a pleasure to be with you Jeff. Jeff shall we start with your background? What led you to distributed technologies and the world of fungi? Jeff Emmett (03:07) Good question. ⁓ a succinct version of that. I mean, they didn't come at the same time. They kind of, ⁓ myciliated together at some point, ⁓ along my journey. ⁓ I, wasn't necessarily looking at distributed systems necessarily in the beginning. I was, I was wondering why, why the world seemed to be falling apart. ⁓ that, you know, these, we, we seem to be rolling backwards all of these, ⁓ sort of advancements that, that we kept talking about, you know, and we were having narcissists in the White House and economic trade wars and Brexit you know, not that there aren't a lot of reasons for these kind of failures of coordination. It really led me down the rabbit hole of blockchain technologies as sort of the, at least at the time, what I understood to be a way to be, to rethink those coordinative structures as protocols rather than as say corporations or nation states. And that kept leading me down the rabbit hole. Actually the first blockchain conference that I went to, I stood outside the whole time and learned about Holochain and the agent centric as opposed to data centric ontology really, really sung true to me. I mean, on a parallel track, I had been very interested in mycelium. I was reading, you know, Paul Stamets’ work Merlin Sheldrake and Alona Hapsing, a lot of these sort of researchers, ⁓ Toby Kier's, her work is fascinating, looking at the sort of the market structures of fungi. So I mean, this was kind of a parallel track of interest that at some point, they merged actually, I think it was at a, it was at a collaborative finance conference. ⁓ Cofi is, one of the, you know, defy refi, Cofi is a new, ⁓ meme in the, mean, I wouldn't even call it the web three space in the monetary theory space. And while we were at the Cofi conference, you know, it was an unconference. So everyone was encouraged to speak if they had topics. ⁓ the topic that we came up with, for my talk was, was Mycofi, was just a play on, on the COFI ⁓ but that really kind of got the sparks, going about how actually there are very, you know, stable long-term resilient patterns of positive, some regeneration in mycelium that have been going since, you know, the dawn of life on this planet. And maybe we had something to learn from, you know, from these wonderful beings to bring into our own economic fabrics. So yeah, that's kind of where I think those two topics merged, but that was still fairly recently. So I don't know what kept them apart for so long. Lucas Tauil (05:45) Jeff, an evolutionary honed capability, both for collective coherence and intelligent resource allocation. Could you share with us how those mechanisms work? Jeff Emmett (06:02) I mean, to be honest, I don't know that we know that much. Toby Kears has some really fascinating research. She's got a number of papers looking at the market dynamics of, if one mycelial mat has higher phosphorus and another mycelial mat has lower phosphorus, they will trade at different rates to trees sugars and whatnot. So you have like walrassian market behaviors. There's also all sorts of like physical, chemical, even down to I've heard mushrooms or the mycelium, the way that they interact with water molecules because they're continuously exploring, but also, you know, maintaining an internal pressure to in the mycelium, they use almost what is a fourth state of water. It's like a gel-like state that has hydrostatics. They're, really making use of all sorts of different natural forces that I don't think we even understand that well, because these are happening at such tiny layers. and just that we have massively under sufficient amounts of study going into mycelium and, and how these organisms operate and how we can, what we can learn from them. So I think it's just a rich area of exploration. Lucas Tauil (07:16) Jeff, fungi allocate resources and facilitate coherence in genetically diverse collectives. What are the key design principles we can learn from them in designing our resource allocation processes? Jeff Emmett (07:34) Yeah, I th

    1h 5m
  2. Going Horizontal: Indigenous Wisdom, Listening & the Future of Work

    11/09/2025

    Going Horizontal: Indigenous Wisdom, Listening & the Future of Work

    Samantha Slade, author of Going Horizontal and co-founder of Percolab, shares her journey from education and anthropology into pioneering participatory leadership and practical ways to work together. Slade reflects on how early life experiences—from teaching in remote Canadian communities to witnessing a revolution in Central America—shaped her views on power, courage, and the need for authenticity in the workplace. Samantha discusses how horizontal practices can transform organizations, why listening is the foundation of collaboration, and how Indigenous traditions influence her approach to leadership and organizational design. Together, we explore: Rethinking Hierarchy – Why organizations don’t need to be monarchies to be effective.The Power of Listening – How listening culture creates psychological safety and shared responsibility.Indigenous Wisdom – Lessons from Indigenous practices on stewardship, spirit, and complexity.Abundance Mindset – Power and knowledge as renewable and expansive resources.Care & Productivity – How relational well-being directly fuels organizational outcomes. Watch this episode on YouTube Listen on: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Pocket Casts | RSS Feed Themes Horizontal Leadership – Moving from command-and-control to collaborative structures.Courage & Authenticity – Bringing full humanity, including difficult emotions, into the workplace.Indigenous Practices – Integrating stewardship, reciprocity, and spirit into modern organizations.Listening as a Practice – Developing cultures of deep listening to build trust and effectiveness.Abundance & Power – Reframing power as limitless and collective rather than scarce.Care & Productivity – Understanding care not as a distraction but as the driver of engagement. Timestamps Beginnings & Inspirations 00:00 — Welcome & Introduction of Samantha Slade 00:39 — From education to questioning hierarchy 02:48 — Founding Percolab as an applied research lab Early Life & Formative Experiences 05:45 — Teaching in a fly-in community in Northern Canada 07:56 — Witnessing revolution and resilience in Nicaragua 09:40 — Surviving a human trafficking attempt and finding courage 13:24 — Reconnecting authenticity and emotions in workspaces Workplace Dynamics & Horizontal Practices 16:19 — Why workplaces are monarchies, not democracies 17:56 — Gallup research on global employee disengagement 19:09 — Small shifts that transform organizational culture 21:01 — Talking circles and conflict resolution in practice Abundance, Reciprocity & Indigenous Wisdom 22:50 — Open-sourcing practices & shifting from scarcity to abundance 24:30 — Standing on the shoulders of cultural traditions 26:20 — Why Going Horizontal is an action, not a destination 29:10 — Scaling collaboration: from small groups to large organizations Trust, Structure & Leadership 35:36 — Building conditions for trust in organizations 37:00 — Horizontal systems are structured, not structureless 39:56 — Key diagnostic: listening culture as a first step 42:28 — “Listen For” – a game to cultivate listening practices Care, Power & Decolonization 43:46 — Why care and productivity belong together 47:32 — Navigating crises collectively, not alone 50:25 — Power as abundant rather than scarce 54:09 — Decolonizing organizational practices 59:18 — Stewardship and the “Keeper of Spirit” role Success Stories & Closing Reflections 01:06:58 — Revitalizing Inuit language and agency through strategic planning 01:12:56 — Shifting from performative to well-being indicators 01:16:05 — Closing gratitude & reflections References 📖 Going Horizontal: Creating a Non-Hierarchical Organization, One Practice at a Time – Samantha Slade 📚 Tyson Yunkaporta – Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World 📚 David Snowden – Work on complexity and sense-making 📖 Wade Davis – The Wayfinders: Why Ancient Wisdom Matters in the Modern World 📚 Otto Scharmer – Theory U Transcript Lucas Tauil (00:02.044) Today we welcome Samantha Slade, author of Going Horizontal, creating a non-hierarchical organization, one practice at a time. Samantha Slade is the co-founder of the Percolab, where she pioneers culture-driven practices and operational tools to grow participatory leadership. Sam, such an honor to have you here. Welcome. Samantha Slade (00:28.066) Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here. Lucas Tauil (00:31.325) Could you start by sharing a bit about your journey and what first drew you into working with horizontal organizations? Samantha Slade (00:39.98) Hmm. Where to start? How far back should I go? So I mean, I can start with a professional worker, Samantha. My first career was in the realm of education and I was very successful in it and went up the ladder. And as I went up, I just kept feeling stranger and stranger inside my belly that something was amiss, that this wasn't how the world was supposed to work. This wasn't how I was designed to function. And until after 16 years, I let go of it all and started Percolab as a conscious place to function as an applied research lab to lean into how might we want to be together in the work world. And so... It really, this is a journey that comes from a life work journey of being tuned into the subtleties of how we organize and structure ourselves at work. And that if we take it to the layer before, my background is in cultural anthropology. So I have also been on a life journey of really looking about the worldviews that underpin how we set ourselves up in the process and structures and practices we give each other are all coming from a certain belief system underneath. And I've spent a lot of my time sort of looking. at different ways and belief systems that exist in the world and those that exist in our... it's like for some... I'll just call it this, like this... for some reason historically our world figured itself out to get organized the way it is and it's based on a paradigm of more one over the other in hierarchical... Samantha Slade (02:48.331) means which involves people telling other people what to do versus everybody uplifting each other to be in their collective strengths. It's just all of that journey. So both the anthropological journey, which took me on personal life into many different places, and then the professional journey, which gave me the hands-on experience to eventually create Percolab Co-op as this applied research lab, which is now coming on 20 years. Yeah, and every, every week, every day. I continue to see that we are designed as human beings to function together in ways that are mutually caring, mutually respectful and honoring our strengths and gifts. And there are ways to function effectively, productively in that spirit. We've just been struggling to find examples, but we have them. We have the research, we have the examples. It's possible we can go there. So yeah, that's that's one. way we can talk about work there's the other deeper story but we can get to that after but that's that's the first level in Lucas Tauil (04:05.264) Yeah, I love to hear that your background is education. It's always been a fascination of mine. When my first daughter was born, my wife and I were living in a tiny village in Brazil that didn't have proper schools. It had an elite school for the rich and the poor had a very precarious school. And we found that both were not suitable. We tried, but... Samantha Slade (04:33.771) Mmm. Lucas Tauil (04:33.852) our daughter that was super extrovert and happy all of the sudden became very contracted and fearful. So we got a bunch of parents together and we co-founded a communitarian school. And ever since I've been fascinated, my wife and I sailed a couple of years and home-schooled our children. And in New Zealand, where we live today, I learned that the Maori people have this concept of the word that they use for education does not distinguish in between teacher and student. Learning or teaching is the same word. So there's this embedded concept of reciprocity in their native culture that I just find it... Samantha Slade (05:19.597) Mm-hmm. Lucas Tauil (05:31.792) beautiful, you know, because it's like there's no hierarchical structure in the process of learning together and it's like gosh it's such strong observation. Samantha Slade (05:45.11) And you know. If I just like we back to my education experience. So during those 16 years, I was in all different places in education. But of course, like most people, I started out as a teacher and I was blessed because my very first job when I first came out of university was in the north of Canada. You had to fly. It's what we call a fly in community. There's no roads to it. So you fly in, you get dropped off the plane and you integrate into a community where there's in the place where I was, there was classrooms and so I had the classroom where kids were age 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and I had all subjects with all those ages and it was my first year teaching. I couldn't do anything other than self-manage, self-govern, self-directed, self-organized learning. It was like, just immersed me in that instantly. I was like, how do you do this? Other than giving everybody tools and structure and processes to be able to go, this is what I'm working on right now. This is how much I've practiced it. This is how I know I'm advancing and progressing. This is how I'm going to be celebrating it. This is how I'm going to ask for help. and for coaching and doing all of that like inter-age all over. I loved it. It was a great creative complex constraint challenge for me that I probably cut my teeth in a lot of the things that I do today and like all you know much more serious spaces but those children were really my first teachers. Lucas Tauil (07:26.268) Yeah, the interaction in between children in different age groups is just fascinating. The school we had was als

    1h 15m
  3. Economies That Flow: An Open Source Blueprint

    04/09/2025

    Economies That Flow: An Open Source Blueprint

    In this episode, Lynn Foster—champion of open-source software and co-author of the Value Flows vocabulary—shares her journey from corporate software development to creating commons-based economic infrastructures. She explains how Value Flows provides a shared language for representing economic activity, enabling projects and organizations to coordinate without relying on siloed systems. At the heart of this work is REA accounting (Resources, Events, Agents), an elegant model that traces real-world flows of resources and interactions across networks. Foster explains how Value Flows and REA accounting enable interoperability across distributed systems and why ontologies, that is shared vocabularies are critical for both people and software to communicate effectively. She also reflects on the real-world impact of projects such as cooperative supply chains and regenerative networks. Lynn Foster explores: Code vs. Community – How open-source software becomes powerful when a community organizes around it.From ERP to REA – Why flow-based accounting creates clarity across networks and ecosystems.Networks of Networks – The potential of Value Flows and Holochain integration to connect grassroots initiatives. Watch this episode on YouTube Listen to this episode: Apple Podcasts • Spotify • Pocket Casts • RSS Feed Themes: Open Source as Commons – How shared vocabularies and cooperative communities make technology durable.Ontologies & Interoperability – Why common data meanings allow software ecosystems to plug and play.Flow-Based Accounting (REA/Value Flows) – Moving beyond double-entry into transparent, cross-network flows.Distributed Architectures – What makes Holochain different and better suited for decentralized collaboration.Regenerative Supply Chains – Lessons from the Carbon Farm Network and other next-economy experiments.Contribution Economies – Models that reward contributions fairly and support resilience. Timestamps: Origins & Foundations 00:00 — Opening reflections on open source as a growing seed01:53 — Lynn’s background and introduction to Value Flows & hREA03:07 — Leaving corporate software to build economic commons04:35 — First “aha moment” in open source: a stranger contributes a logo05:08 — The difference between open source code and open source communityValue Flows & Ontologies 06:20 — The Open App Ecosystem: modular tools like Lego blocks06:52 — Why vocabularies are needed for interoperability07:40 — APIs vs. shared vocabularies: simplifying collaboration08:17 — Ten years of Value Flows: what has evolvedPatterns & Flows 08:40 — Conway’s Law: communication shapes technology10:30 — Supply chains and the shift from “best company” to “best supply chain”11:16 — Trust and transparency across enterprises12:20 — Expanding the surface of cooperation rather than competingREA & Network Resource Planning 13:50 — REA explained: Resources, Events, Agents15:35 — Three layers: policy, planning, and observation16:55 — Directed graphs: tracing resource provenance and flows18:10 — From ERP’s silos to NRP’s networks19:30 — Working with Sensorica on open hardware and contribution accountingOntologies in Practice 21:09 — What ontologies are and why they matter22:53 — Shared meaning for humans and software alike24:28 — Configurability and taxonomies: flexibility without lock-in26:54 — Digital Product Passports in the EU as a use caseDistributed Systems & Carbon Farm Network 27:58 — What makes Holochain unique: no central servers29:35 — Using Value Flows to connect Holochain networks31:30 — hREA as a generic backend for many user experiences31:55 — Case study: the Carbon Farm Network in New York33:21 — Supporting sustainability and local supply chains34:46 — Challenges: funding cuts, infrastructure closures, systemic inequality36:30 — Possibilities for cooperative ownership of spinning millsBroader Applications & Future Directions 38:45 — Offers/Needs apps, mutual credit, barter, and gift economies40:58 — Contribution economies and benefit distribution algorithms42:10 — EU projects: Reflow, Fab City, and The Weathermakers43:50 — Expanding agents/resources to rivers, forests, carbon, nitrogen45:46 — Regional planning and resilience after crises47:28 — Building relationships now for resilience in uncertain futures49:41 — Small pieces of the puzzle: upward spirals of collaboration51:00 — Closing reflections on the importance of collective effort References: REA Accounting Model – Bill McCarthy Value Flows Vocabulary – Co-created by Lynn Foster, Bob Haugen, and collaborators Digital Product Passports (EU Initiative) – Ongoing regulatory framework Sensorica – Open value network experiments in contribution accounting Transcript Lynn Foster (00:00.076) I think open source is one of these seeds that's kind of growing within the beast, so to speak, where it organically appears and it wants to be born. It takes us beyond the competitiveness of our current system. Narrator - Clara Chemin Welcome to Entangled Futures with Lucas Tauil, where we explore mutuality and conversations towards a world that works for everyone. Lucas Tauil (00:35.97) This episode is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that allows people to team up, share information and solve their own problems without needing a middleman. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. I first came across the project in 2018, during my journey into participative culture with Unsparil. My good friend, Hailey Cooperider, pointed me to the green paper and I was blown away by the vision of a local first decentralized internet. I worked for five years on the project and feel very grateful for the support with the show. Enjoy it. Lucas Tauil (01:52.888) Today we welcome Lynn Foster, a champion of open source software and co-author of the Value Flows vocabulary. The Value Flows vocabulary is designed to represent economic activities, particularly within distributed fractal networks involving diverse agents, such as individuals, organizations, and ecological entities. The purpose of Value Flows is to enable interoperability across various software projects serving as a shared vocabulary. Lynn Foster is also a driving force at HREA, an implementation of the Value Flows specification. HREA enables a transparent and trusted account of resources and information flows between decentralized and independent agents across and within ecosystems. Welcome Lynn, such a pleasure to have you here. Lynn Foster My pleasure, Lucas. Lucas Tauil Lynn, for us to break the ice, could you share the origins of your journey in Open Source software? Lynn Foster (03:07.182) So I worked in corporate America in software development for most of my kind of day job career. A little teeny bit of which was open source, but even that was usually kind of open source washing, you know. But when I retired and joined my partner Bob Haugen to work on economic open source software, we knew we wanted to help build a commons of shared code, to get beyond the corporate scene that's doing so much harm to the earth, to the people, and especially to support people doing economic experiments on the ground. But actually in those days when we were coding, not a lot of people came around to help. And we weren't really focused on building open source communities at that point. But I want to mention a kind of a little tidbit of a small incident that was kind of my first aha moment about open source, which is maybe three weeks into the Value Flows project. Somebody, I don't know, put out some kind of a call and all of a sudden this graphics designer showed up, made us a logo, you know. Nobody knew this person, Julio. And that was just cool, that was really cool, was people just want to contribute to what they believe in and contribute what they can. I think open source is one of these seeds that's kind of growing within the beast, so to speak, where it organically appears and it wants to be born. It takes us beyond the competitiveness of our current system. Lucas Tauil Lynn, I noticed you differentiating between open source software building and building open source community. Could you expand on that? Lynn Foster (05:08.312) Well, open source software is software that lives in the commons and people can use it. They can fork it, they can change it, whatever. An open source community needs to develop around open source software. And we had that in Value Flows. There were a lot of people working on it, people coming in and out, people that cared deeply about it. There was a lot of give and take between people. And that was a completely different experience than me and Bob sitting there coding together, you know, which was also pretty great, but the community is important. Lucas Tauil And Lyn, how did the Value Flows initiative start? What was the initial drive? Lynn Foster Yeah, so Value Flows got going around 2015 and for a year before that, there was a bunch of software developers kind of all over the world who were starting to be interested in making software that wasn't just your kind of big walled silo centralized kinds of things. And there was a lot of ferment going on and people were talking to each other about how to move forward on making better open source software. One thing that evolved was called the Open App Ecosystem, and I think that was named by somebody in Inspiral out in your part of the world, which is basically building apps or components that could be built into suites that people working on the ground can use and that could communicate with each other and be building blocks like Legos or something. And one thing that became Lynn Foster (06:51.598) is that if we had these smaller pieces of software, we were going to need vocabularies and protocols, or vocabularies

    52 min
  4. Reciprocal Obligations: The Heart of Mutualism

    28/08/2025

    Reciprocal Obligations: The Heart of Mutualism

    Sara Horowitz, founder of the Freelancers Union and author of 'Mutualism: Building the New Economy from the Ground Up', shares her journey into mutualism. Horowitz is a former chair of the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and a recipient of the MacArthur Fellowship. Her work has been covered by NPR, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Atlantic, among other outlets. She describes herself as a lifelong mutualist and lives in Brooklyn, New York. Horowitz emphasizes the need for reciprocal obligations and community building, sharing insights from her family history and the experiences in creating the Freelancers Union Insurance Company. The conversation explores how we can learn from the past to build effective organizations and outlines a vision for a mutualist ecosystem.  Watch this episode on YouTube Listen to this episode: Apple Podcasts Spotify Pocket Casts RSS Feed  Themes: Mutualism as a framework – Understanding its three principles and how they differ from socialism or capitalism. Safety nets and reciprocity – Why peer-to-peer systems of care provide resilience in uncertain times. Historical lessons – From unions, Mondragon, and religious organizations to modern co-ops and movements. Patient capital – Models for financing ecosystems without extractive pressures. The role of government – Creating sandboxes, infrastructure, and scaling mutualist innovations. Self-determination and community – Finding your group, nurturing trust, and building resilience together. TImestamps: Opening & Context 00:00 — Sara on neighbors, connection, and joy in supporting others 00:41 — Lucas introduces the Holochain Foundation sponsor 01:58 — Introducing Sara Horowitz, Freelancers Union founder & author of Mutualism Sara’s Journey into Mutualism 03:25 — Family roots in unions and cooperatives 05:19 — Rethinking safety nets: beyond government and charity 07:23 — What we’ve lost in the social fabric of business and community Principles & Practices of Mutualism 09:22 — Defining mutualism: solidarity, economic mechanism, generational time horizon 11:38 — Political homelessness & decentralized strategies 13:34 — Reciprocal obligations: indivisible reserves, Green Bay Packers, and cooperative models Building Safety Nets Today 15:48 — Learning from past cooperative institutions 17:48 — Babysitting co-ops and neighborhood organizing 19:44 — From transactional to relational economies 21:27 — The founding of Freelancers Union & portable benefits Vision of Mutualist Ecosystems 24:20 — Building networks and small beginnings 26:16 — Practical examples: Molly Hempstreet & industrial cooperatives 28:15 — Pillars of a mutualist ecosystem: organizations, government, training, capital 30:18 — Patient capital: seedling stage, fellowships, program-related investments Role of Government & Institutions 35:03 — Sandboxes, safe spaces, and infrastructure 36:54 — Religious organizations and mutualist hard-coding 39:20 — Disaster recovery & the risks of outsourcing mutual aid Scaling Mutualism 41:32 — Scale as mycelial networks and feedback loops 43:48 — Trust as the foundation of markets and democracy Challenges & Future Directions 45:53 — Where to start: local communities, co-ops, book groups 47:52 — Distinguishing mutualism from socialism and communism 49:38 — Wealth concentration & collective survival 51:26 — Unusual alliances: bridging divides through shared needs 53:34 — Self-determination, faith, and forgiveness in hard times Closing 54:59 — Beginners in mutualism: the courage to start 55:46 — Farewell & invitation to join the Mutualist Society Resources & References: 📖 Mutualism: Building the Next Economy from the Ground Up – Sara Horowitz   📜 The Rochdale Principles – Early cooperative movement guidelines   📚 Mondragon Cooperative Model – Basque Country, Spain 📚 United Mine Workers of America – Historical labor organizing 📖 The 10 Laws of Trust: Building the Bonds That Make a Business Great 📖 The End of History and the Last Man – Francis Fukuyama 📚 Ashoka & Echoing Green – Fellowship programs for social entrepreneurs Transcript Sara Horowitz (00:00.088) You better really be connected to your neighbors. You really have to start to know the people around you and be connected to them in a peer-to-peer way because you don't know when you're going to need help. And it turns out supporting other people is probably one of the best things you can do to give your life joy. Narrator - Clara Chemin Welcome to Entangled Futures with Lucas Tauil, where we explore mutuality and conversations towards a world that works for everyone. Lucas Tauil (00:41.4) This episode is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that allows people to team up, share information, and solve their own problems without needing a middleman. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. I first came across the project in 2018, during my journey into participative culture with Enspiral. My good friend, Hailey Cooperider, pointed me to the green paper and I was blown away by the vision of a local first decentralized internet. I worked for five years on the project and feel very grateful for the support with the show. Enjoy it. Lucas Tauil (01:58.744) Today we welcome Sara Horowitz, founder of the Freelancer’s Union and author of the book Mutualism, Building the New Economy from the Ground Up. A breeze of fresh air in a time of suffocating narratives and wealth concentration policies. Sara Horowitz's book and practice give new life to powerful ideas on collective action, self-determination, economic systems, and labor. Sara's new initiative is the mutualist society, a space for peer-to-peer cross-pollination on ideas on mutual aid, mutualism, and building from the ground up. I'm so stoked to have you here, Sara. Thanks for joining. Sara Horowitz Thank you so much. Really happy to be here. Thank you. Lucas Tauil Sara, could you share your journey into mutualism for us to get started? Sara Horowitz I'd love to. I really love hearing when people talk about their families or their backgrounds and it's usually the feeling of being really human. So I would say the thing that really has surprised me about my mutualist journey is that it really did start with my grandparents' generation. And my grandfather was a vice president of a union called the International Ladies Garment Workers Union. And that union really was this Sara Horowitz (03:25.368) completely entrepreneurial endeavor. So mostly women workers paid their union dues. The union were active, incredible entrepreneurial capitalists except for the working class and they built housing and insurance and all sorts of things that workers needed that still exist today. I was raised to go to my grandma's house which was a union cooperative and I didn't think anything was special about it. It's just where we went for family get-togethers. And then my father was a union-side labor lawyer. And then I became a union organizer. And I'd say as I started to really build and think about it, I never forgot the 1920s trade union movement and what they did and how they had this vision of starting with one thing that workers needed. and just kept building and building and it was a viable economic strategy. And I'd say that was probably my real base frame that really has guided my life but I don't think I really thought about it until I started really building up the Freelancers Union. Lucas Tauil Sara, on your book, workers looking after themselves and building a safety net, has central stage. How important is a safety net? Why is it so crucial? Sara Horowitz You know, there's really not just one safety net. I think we now think about a government-provided safety net, and that feels like a safety net. But actually, what we really have to start realizing is that we build many safety nets, and that we have to see that it's not all either government or charity or a market that we buy, like an insurance. Sara Horowitz (05:19.214) policy, especially when we look at what's happening with climate change, you better really be connected to your neighbors. You really have to start to know the people around you and be connected to them in a peer-to-peer way because you don't know when you're going to need help. And it turns out supporting other people is probably one of the best things you can do to give your life joy. And so, really we need to reconceptualize this framework. And I would say that is probably the thing I realized from the Freelancers Union starting to build the Mutualist Society is let's just get started with this peer-to-peer and let's just move fast to realizing that is going to be where we have to be right now. Lucas Tauil Sara, on your book, you mention a plaque in the Rochdale Pioneer Museum in England, the birthplace of the modern cooperative movement that puts it so nicely that the cooperative ideal is as old as human society. It is the idea of conflict and competition as a principle of economic progress that is new. This really struck me reading the book in realizing how nourishing and regenerative it is to be in mutuality. And it seems we lost that, we forgot that on the social fabric. Sara Horowitz Yes. You know, if I were describing how much we've lost that in our conceptualization, the way we think of business is the cherry on the icing on the cake. That we're just going to engage in these transactions and we're going to do really fast things, really easily. We're going to do one thing, it's going to be homogenous. We're going to take it to scale. Everything will have big box store uniformity. Sara Horowitz (07:23.414) and boy won't we get rich and have all the consumer items we could possibly need. UNI would probably not even find that concep

    56 min
  5. Beyond Hierarchies: Collective Intelligence at Scale

    21/08/2025

    Beyond Hierarchies: Collective Intelligence at Scale

    Jean-François Noubel, visionary thinker and researcher in the field of collective intelligence, explains that for collective intelligence to truly scale, we must both see and be seen. Like in a jazz band, where every player senses the whole to improvise in harmony, societies also need a reciprocal view of the whole—only on a much larger scale. Known for his work on how humanity can evolve beyond ego-centered systems, Jean-François explores how narratives, language, and invisible architectures shape the way we organize ourselves, and how emerging technologies can help us transcend the limitations of pyramidal power structures. In this conversation, he shares stories and insights that reveal how myths, grammar, and currencies act as the social DNA of our systems—and why re-designing them may be essential for humanity’s next evolutionary step. Watch this episode on YouTube Listen to this episode: Apple Podcasts Spotify Pocket Casts RSS Feed Themes: The Power of Stories and Myths – How narratives guide consciousness and collective action. Paradigms and Unstated Assumptions – The invisible beliefs that shape our systems and behaviors. Language as Invisible Architecture – How grammar and words embed domination and possibility. The Middleman and Pyramidal Systems – Why concentration of power creates fragility. Distributed Technologies – Designing resilient, living systems for the future. Timestamps Opening & Framing 00:00 — Collective intelligence in small groups vs pyramidal systems 01:43 — Sponsor: Holochain Foundation & Lucas’ personal journey 02:59 — Introducing Jean-François Noubel & his vision Stories & Narratives 04:53 — Why stories and myths are the strongest forces in human evolution 07:16 — Narratives as holograms of culture and consciousness 08:12 — Paradigms and Donella Meadows’ “Leverage Points” Paradigms & Assumptions 09:58 — Hidden cultural assumptions: gender, slavery, eating animals 12:18 — Invisible architectures: language, currency, time, and codes 14:38 — Challenging assumptions: veganism, language, and thingification Language & Grammar 16:56 — Patriarchy embedded in grammar 18:46 — Removing the verb to be and reducing “social violence” 21:11 — Language as domination vs language as responsibility 22:17 — Causality vs synchronicity: why our languages limit perception Technology & Evolution 24:04 — Written language and centralization of power 26:17 — From oral to pyramidal systems: writing as keystone technology 28:43 — Scarcity currencies and concentration of power 32:23 — The role of the middleman (agents, rules, data) 34:44 — Why bureaucracies grow and become self-serving Disintermediation 36:36 — Concentration of money and power: systemic feedback loops 38:33 — Limits of the middleman and blockchain’s shortcomings 40:16 — Distributed living systems and decision-making 43:31 — Pyramidal bottlenecks vs distributed resilience 45:07 — Humanity’s evolutionary need for distributed intelligence 47:32 — New grammars for synchronicity and emergence Currencies & Agreements 49:29 — Meta-grammar for agreements 51:22 — Designing currencies as living stories 52:59 — How the Holochain story has evolved over the years AI & Holopticism 55:20 — Artificial intelligence as augmented collective intelligence 57:20 — Wrapping up: Holopticism as sensing the whole together Closing 58:10 — Outro & invitation to subscribe Resources and References 📖 A Brief History of Everything – Ken Wilber 📜 Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System – Donella Meadows 📜 Towards a Commons Culture – Paul Krafel 🏆 Elinor Ostrom’s Nobel Prize work on Design Principles for the Commons Transcript Jean-François Noubel (00:00.322) From a collective intelligence perspective, the best setting as human beings, we do play sports in small teams. The jazz bands, we start as a small group and the family. So we have a cognitive system optimized for small groups. But it has limitations. When you want to do big things, it can't work. You need to unite more people. So we shifted to pyramidal collective intelligence. It has centralized power, chain of command, labor division, and a scarce currency. Because the scarcity of currency will create the concentration of power. One of the properties that we like in small groups, we call it holopticism. A holos, a hole, and opticism, see the hole. And so I know what I can do in my sports team or in my jazz band because I have a representation of the whole. I know what the whole does, so I know what actions I can do in the whole. Every time you have a pyramidal structure, you let a minority of people to deal with something so big, they can't embrace the complexity. If you don't give them augmented holopticism, which distributed systems will need to provide, then they can't work. You hit the glass wall. Lucas Tauil (01:43.48) This episode is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that allows people to team up, share information and solve their own problems without needing a middleman. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. I first came across the project in 2018. During my journey into participative culture with Unsparil, my good friend Hailey Cooperider pointed me to the green paper and I was blown away by the vision of a local first decentralized internet. I worked for five years on the project and feel very grateful for the support with the show. Enjoy it. Lucas Tauil (02:59.79) Today we welcome Jean-Francois Nouvelle, a visionary thinker, speaker and pioneer in the realm of collective intelligence. Jean-Francois has dedicated his research to understanding how humans can evolve from ego-centered systems to new forms of collaboration that honor our interconnectedness. With a background in computer science, linguistics and philosophy, Jean-Francois has worked at the cutting edge of technology and humanity. He explores how we can transcend the limitations of current societal structures, embracing what he calls the next species of humanity. From his deep insights into money and currency systems to his practical experiments in living systems, Jean-Francois invites us to reimagine how we live, work, and create together. So get ready to expand your perspective and dive into a fascinating conversation about the future of collective intelligence, the role of inner transformation in the art of designing systems that truly work for all. Welcome, Jean-Francois. It's an honor to have you with us. Nice to meet you, Lucas. Thank you so much for having me here. Lucas Tauil I'm stoked to dive into this conversation. I would like to start with narratives. The materialists say we are made of atoms. I prefer to believe we are made of stories, relationships to place, life and people. You also seem fascinated by narratives. What is the story we need to reveal about the stories we are telling ourselves? Jean-François Noubel (04:53.592) Well, first, I don't see a bigger driving force than stories. And I'd rather even say myth, not as a mythology like old stories, but myth as those kind of stories that invite us to a greater journey and to overcome our limitations and to do something so, so big and so cool and so impossible that we want to do it. You know, like really going to the moon, going to space, and building, you know, the best journey, the best experience we can build for ourselves. That means dreaming something that does not exist. So not just storytelling. Now, we do exist as storytellers. We've existed as this forever since we speak together. 50,000 years ago, you had human beings around the fire sharing stories. So we do exist as storytellers, as storytelling beings. Yeah, no bigger force than this. Now we have different levels of stories. Those stories we say every day, what did you do today? And that will reflect how you see the world, you see yourself, your value system. Every story that we share reflects that. We're like a hologram of a greater thing and the hologram of yourself, but also a hologram of the society and the stories you believe in that you belong to. And you have also other stories that have the mythological aspect of that. When they share something about an epic adventure, you know, let's do something epic together like: Take a boat and go over the globe together, you know, explore new frontiers of science, make the most beautiful movie ever. You know, something so incredible that it brings, you know, tears in your eyes when you speak about it. And it also unites people around this because whatever you do, you know, let's talk about space exploration. You have people who do coding, you have people who do accounting, you have people who train as astronauts. You have all sorts of people that if you ask them, what they do, their story will say something greater, will connect their being into something greater with a sense of belonging and participating to something greater. So here we talk about the myth. And of course you cannot separate the everyday stories and the myth. They have some kind of entanglement. But understanding how this works, I think, give us very powerful insights about Jean-François Noubel (07:16.566) social dynamics and also maybe understanding where the world wants to go, where consciousness wants to go. Lucas Tauil This gets me to Ken Wilber's A Brief History of Everything. We understand evolution where survival of the fittest work. Yeah, that explains how legs evolved. But it doesn't explain how you evolved from an arm to wings. You need a hundred plus consecutive mutations for an arm to become a wing. And you need two individuals to have viable offspring. how this happens. And I'm with you. I feel this space of wonder is more likely to have answers than the subatomic particles in the Large Hadron Collider. Lucas

    58 min
  6. Towards a Commons culture

    14/08/2025

    Towards a Commons culture

    Paul Krafel, author of Shifting, Nature's Way of Change, teaches about a dimension of possibilities for life, a space of positive and negative feedback loops. A naturalist, educator and charter school founder, Paul Krafel explains how this dimension of possibilities for life can help us navigate dread and avoid time lag traps. His decades of careful observation reveal deep natural patterns that can help us navigate the fog of present times. The Interview was inspired by Krafel’s article Toward a Commons culture.  Watch this episode on YouTube Listen to this episode: Apple Podcasts Spotify Pocket Casts RSS Feed Themes: Rain Walks & Upward Spirals: Paul’s practice of small landscape interventions to slow water runoff and regenerate land. The Commons Culture: How natural systems, from soil formation to beaver dams, create shared abundance. Thermodynamics & Life: Understanding how energy and flow shape ecosystems and human societies. Decentralization & Resilience: Why smaller, self-organized systems often outperform large, centralized ones. Hope as a Strategy: The psychological and systemic shifts needed to counter societal dread and build a future of shared possibility. Timestamps: • 00:00 — Opening & Welcome • 00:33 — Sponsor & Host’s Backstory • 01:49 — Introducing Paul Krafel & The Vision of the Commons • 03:09 — The Raindrop Metaphor • 05:00 — Rain Walks & Shifting Mindsets • 11:06 — Life Lessons from Rain Walks • 14:54 — Work as Joy & The Second Law of Thermodynamics • 18:14 — Defining the Commons • 21:10 — Feedback Spirals vs. Feedback Loops • 24:37 — Four Strategies to Increase Life’s Possibilities — Part 1 • 33:24 — Four Strategies — Part 2 • 37:16 — Work, Play & Commons Culture • 41:37 — Hope vs. Dread & Shifting Orientation • 47:02 — Decentralization & Local Empowerment • 51:09 — Time Lags in Systems Change • 55:28 — Design Patterns for Managing the Commons • 57:28 — Consequences Awareness & Education • 59:05 — The Staten Island Ferry Metaphor & Enoughness • 01:00:51 – Closing Resources & References: 📖 Shifting: Nature’s Way of Change – Paul Krafel: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2876220-shifting 📜 Toward a Commons Culture – Paul Krafel’s essay on shifting systemic patterns: https://roamingupward.net/toward-a-commons-culture/#Toward-a-Commons-culture 📚 Elinor Ostrom – Nobel Prize-winning economist on commons governance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom Transcript   Paul Krafel (00:00.088) For me, the commons is anything that did not exist before life appeared that has now an existence partly through the efforts of life and that helped make more possibilities for life. Narrator - Clara Chemin Welcome to Entangled Futures with Lucas Tauil, where we explore mutuality and conversations towards a world that works for everyone. Lucas Tauil (00:33.602) This episode is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that allows people to team up, share information and solve their own problems without needing a middleman. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. I first came across the project in 2018. during my journey into participative culture with Unsparil. My good friend, Hailey Cooperider, pointed me to the green paper and I was blown away by the vision of a local first decentralized internet. I worked for five years on the project and feel very grateful for the support with the show. Enjoy it. Lucas Tauil (01:49.4) Today we welcome Paul Krafel, a naturalist, educator, and charter school founder. Krafel is the author of Shifting, Nature's Way of Change. His decades of careful observation reveal deep natural patterns that can help us navigate the fog of present times. Paul Krafel teaches about a dimension of possibilities for life, a space of positive and negative feedback loops that either increase or deplete life's potential. Acknowledging this dimension and being intentional about it can help us navigate complexity and foster a commons culture, a collective ethic that might turn the tide and heal the pervasive dread and lack of hope we experience in the face of systemic challenges. Welcome, Paul. I'm honored to have you with us. Paul Krafel I'm looking forward to this. Thank you for inviting me. Lucas Tauil Such a treat to have you here. Paul, if you had to choose one image that best expresses your vision of a common sculpture, what would it be? Paul Krafel (03:09.6) It would be the moment that raindrops touch the ground. There's two paths open to that raindrop. One is to soak into the soil, later be pulled up through the roots and contribute to photosynthesis that would create more leaf surface area to absorb more of the sun's energy. And also some of that water would be transpired back into the sky. fall again as rain or settle each night as dew, increasing the amount of water that's available for life. And when the plant eventually dies, it rots into the soil and enriches the soil and makes up a soil that can absorb more rain in the future. That's one path. And the other path is to let the water run off. And as it runs off, it converges with other rain drops and it gradually assumes more erosive power to wash away soil and the opposite happens as the soil gets washed away it can absorb even less water and it just spirals down. Those two routes are open. One creates what I call an upward spiral, the other one creates what I call a downward spiral and My hobby is to go out and try to shift downward spirals to upward spirals, get started with rain walks, going out and playing with the water. And it's generalized in attitude toward life, trying to see wherever I can, just making little nudges to help things accumulate possibilities. Paul, I read your recent essay towards the commons culture and loved it. What drove you to write it? Paul Krafel (05:00.778) A couple of years ago, I was starting to feel a certain dread about where we were heading. And normally I'm very optimistic. And so this was definitely a change in direction that I was not quite sure what to do with because the things that filled me with dread were external to me and that I didn't have much control over. And then at a certain point, I remembered one of the lessons I learned from all my rain walks, which was offer a new path to the water before trying to oppose the way it's currently flowing. And so I started thinking about that in terms of my culture. And I go, okay, and just changing, not knowing exactly what that meant, but just changing my thinking from opposing the current one to offer a new path. After a month or so, I realized my thoughts were changing. and my spirit was recovering as I was contemplating that question about what is the new path that I would offer that led me to write the essay. Lucas Tauil  I'm experiencing something very similar since I first read your essay a couple of weeks back. It's been extremely inspiring. Like, it touched me very deeply and I'm very grateful for it. Hey! Paul, you described your rainwalks. Could you go deeper into them? How did they come up? What is the game, the play in them? Paul Krafel Well, let me just start off with my first strain walk. I used to work for the National Park Service and at one time I was stationed in this eroding sandstone Canyon in the Southwest. And I just loved that Canyon. It was so such a beautiful Canyon, except for a Arroyo that was gashed through that the bottom soil of it. It was a site of a cliff dwelling and geologically Paul Krafel (07:06.766) And archeologically, there was evidence that at a certain time, the canyon had no arroyo and was full of aspen trees. And then the people came in, built the cliff dwelling, and about 15 years later, an arroyo had cut down and they had to leave. And after they left, the arroyo filled in again. And then the 1930s, Navajo brought in sheep and the arroyo's back. It gave me this image that the canyon can fill in with sand and create an area that can hold all the rain that pours into the canyon or it can erode away. And so it was just this model of a place that can rise into a very beautiful setting or just diminish down to this slow flow of water oozing out of the life system. And so I wanted to somehow see if I could change that. And I tried a lot of things that I'd read about, like check dams and all like that, and none of them worked. And I built a couple of real tiny check dams, just with two by fours, and a little tiny gully coming in through the side. And a rainstorm came and it washed all the check dams away, but for once. And one was just situated on a place where the water got split and flowed around the check dam in two directions. And at that split, the energy of the water just changed dramatically. Sand was just dropping out like crazy. And in fact, I had to keep shoveling the sand out, otherwise it'd plug up again. And it showed me, whoa, if I split the water, let's try that. So I started. As the water that was going off to either side, I would use a little mattock to make a V in the ground and split the water and it would slow down more. And I ended up just making these little V's all the way across the terrace there. And I was able to do it. I was able to hold the water on and it was just so much fun. And then there was a series of three or four massive storms. Most of them, I got Paul Krafel (09:32.492) I got a lot of experience there in a few days. It was life changing. It definitely recharged my batteries. just being out of this canyon with lightning all around and big waterfalls pouring off the canyon walls and I'm out there with my little mattock. It was fun. was deeper than fun. mean, it was intense. And that got me hooked. And I've been doing rain walks ever since I go out. And all my life since then, I've always had a place nearb

    1h 1m
  7. Teaser Season 1

    SEASON 1 TRAILER

    Teaser Season 1

    Welcome to Entangled Futures, where we explore emergent mutuality. In our first three episodes we will weave conversations with the Naturalist, Paul Krafel, the collective intelligence researcher, Jean-François Noubel and the founder of the Freelancer’s Union, Sarah Horowitz. They will help us set the foundations for the Entangled Futures journey into emergent mutuality. This show is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that helps people team up, share information, and solve their own problems together—without needing a middle-man. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. On the first episode Paul Krafel will walk us through a dimension of possibilities for life, a space of positive and negative feedback loops that can help us navigate dread and avoid time lag traps. Jean-François Noubel, the guest of our second episode, will speak of his research on the power of having a vision of the whole in small teams and help us imagine this power augmented through tech so that we can better organise and reinvent collective Intelligence at scale beyond hierarchical structures. Imagine whole orchestra’s playing like a jazz band  On the third episode, Sara Horowitz will share how Mutualism cedes decision-making authority to the communities it serves by giving them economic power. Sara Horowitz’s book reminds us that mutualism is an old idea: "We can look to one another to solve the most intractable problems we encounter in our lives. The instinct to help our neighbours in times of crisis is so natural to us that when we are given the tools to do so we know exactly what to do". Welcome aboard! It’s great to have you along for the journey. Watch this episode on YouTube Listen to this episode: Apple Podcasts Spotify Pocket Casts RSS Feed

    4 min

Trailer

About

A podcast exploring Mutuality Conversations towards a world that work for everyone About us Entangled Futures is a podcast exploring the world of mutuality, produced by Lucas Tauil. Engaging in conversation with the people shaping collective spaces, we aim to identify adjacent possibilities— new opportunities for collaboration and innovation—that nourish a planet where everyone can thrive. This work is the result of the excellence and dedication of an amazing team: Ira Nezhynska led the design, Kika created the music, Clara Chemin was the narrator, Paul d'Aoust developed the website, Mamading Ceesay handled the infrastructure, Matthew Nichols took care of integration and Jonathan Patecki edited the animations. Support us Come together! Help us bring the next season to life. You can support the show with a credit card on our Patreon page, (https://patreon.com/EntangledFutures) or with crypto using the Ethereum wallet, ENS: entangledfutures.eth. 0x24055dB18b971f24C3BFAB623A24Ee6c2b04F921 Sponsored by The show is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that helps people team up, share information, and solve their own problems together—without needing a middle-man. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. Host Lucas Tauil is a trained, and seasoned communicator focused on participative culture and collaboration. Connected to the world of sustainability and decentralised technology he has worked as a Journalist for two decades in mainstream media.  Working with the power of difference and collective intelligence on multiple stakeholders organisations since 2001, Lucas is part of Enspiral, a collective of people working on stuff that matters.  Together with his partner Sandra Chemin and eight other families, Lucas co-founded Quintal Magico, a communitarian Steiner school in Paraty, Brazil. The couple sailed for six years with their two daughters from England to New Zealand.

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    Lucas Tauil
  • Years Active
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  • Episodes
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    ©2025 Lucas Tauil
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    Entangled Futures