Humans in the Loop

Seb Agertoft

A podcast for thoughtful technologists. Seb Agertoft - Coach to tech company founders and leadership teams - interviews founders, technologists, artists, investors, thought leaders and policymakers wrestling with the tough questions at the forefront of emergent tech like AI, quantum computing, renewable energy, web3, blockchain, robotics and autonomous vehicles. Not just can we build it, but how to build tech with human interests at heart.

Episodes

  1. Kevin Kelly on Flounder Mode and Optimism

    13 JAN

    Kevin Kelly on Flounder Mode and Optimism

    How to describe Kevin Kelly? Founder of Wired Magazine. Writer of industry defining essays like '1000 true fans' - https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/Co-chair of The Long Now Foundation encouraging people to think on civilisational timescalesPassionate traveller and photographer whose travelled remote parts of Asia for the last 50 years - https://kevin2kelly.myshopify.com/products/colors-of-asia-a-visual-journeyThe subject of the brilliant term, coined by Brie Wolfson - Flounder Mode https://joincolossus.com/article/flounder-mode/And a dream podcast guest Kevin is known for many things, not least his optimism, but Kevin's flavour of optimism is what we calls 'protopian not utopian' - an acknowledgement that new technology creates major new problems but that over time we find ways to solve them Chapters 00:00 The Hollywood Approach to Career Paths 05:20 Pursuing Interesting Projects 07:46 Influence and Unique Contributions 10:38 Radical Optimism Explained 13:38 The Choice of Optimism 16:28 The Reality of Progress 19:05 Wrestling with Counter Narratives 21:54 Building Better Technology 28:18 Navigating Technology's Strengths and Weaknesses 30:54 The Ethics of Technology Creation 33:14 The Role of Corporations in Technology 36:04 The Necessity of Innovation in Addressing Problems 42:14 Long-Term Thinking and the Long Now Foundation 47:55 Envisioning a Desirable Future 53:11 Celebrating Cultural Heritage Through Photography Get in touch Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod Email: seb@theuncommonfounder.com Personal website: https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

    55 min
  2. Talking to animals with Kate Armstrong

    18/11/2025

    Talking to animals with Kate Armstrong

    Summary In this conversation, I speak to Kate Armstrong, the Executive Director of InterSpecies Internet, about the latest advancements in how we communicate with animals through technology. Kate emphasizes the importance of planetary kinship and the responsibility humans have as advanced toolmakers to create beneficial tools for other species. The discussion also touches on real-world applications of interspecies communication, the complexities of wild animal communication, and the need for legal frameworks to protect animal rights. Throughout the conversation, Kate shares insights into the future of this field and the resources available for those interested in learning more. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Interspecies Internet 03:47 The Journey to Interspecies Communication 06:59 The Origin Story of Interspecies Internet 11:21 Understanding Interspecies Communication 14:19 The Importance of Interspecies Communication 17:17 Technological Applications in Interspecies Communication 19:52 Frontiers of Interspecies Communication 22:50 The Role of AI in Animal Communication 25:40 Exploring Communication Across Species 28:24 Anthropocentrism in Animal Communication 30:39 The Magic of Interspecies Communication 32:11 Domestic Animals as Communication Pioneers 36:18 Ethical Considerations in Animal Communication 38:45 Nature Rights and Legal Frameworks 44:53 The Future of Interspecies Communication Resources: https://www.interspecies.io/ TED talk

    54 min
  3. Rewiring Democracy with Godfather of Cybersecurity and public interest technologist, Bruce Schneier

    28/10/2025

    Rewiring Democracy with Godfather of Cybersecurity and public interest technologist, Bruce Schneier

    This episode features an OG in the world of internet security, the Godfather of Cybersecurity, Bruce Schneier. Bruce describes himself as a public interest technologist, and has done many things under that banner - run companies, lectured at Harvard, testified before Congress, authored over a dozen books, and written a blog for over 20 years that has more than 250k regular readers - to name just a few. Key topics: - The need for better technical minds in policy making - The implications of AI for democracy (not as bleak as you might expect - Bruce’s new book Rewiring Democracy goes deep on the emerging implications and he remains largely optimistic) - Why the internet was not designed with security in mind - Why prompt injection makes AI applications inherently insecure for high stakes tasks - Threat modelling for personal security in an age of geopolitics Chapters 00:00 What Bruce actually does 03:58 The Journey to Becoming a Public Interest Technologist 06:54 Understanding Cybersecurity and the Internet Today 09:36 Advice for Online Safety and Security 12:39 The Role of Governments in Data Privacy 15:41 Geopolitical Implications of Cybersecurity 18:35 Cyber-Physical Systems and Their Risks 21:49 The Impact of AI on Cybersecurity 24:27 Rewiring Democracy in the Age of Technology 30:08 The Evolving Landscape of Cybersecurity and AI 32:21 Understanding Prompt Injection Vulnerabilities 36:30 The Internet's Security Flaws and Historical Context 39:25 Capitalism's Role in Cybersecurity Failures 46:11 Skepticism Towards Web3 and Blockchain 48:37 Rewiring Democracy for the Information Age 55:27 Trust, Power, and the Future of AI in Governance You can find Bruce at www.schneier.com

    58 min
  4. Tara Fung, Founder CO:CREATE - Life on the Frontier. Booms, busts & pivots

    07/10/2025

    Tara Fung, Founder CO:CREATE - Life on the Frontier. Booms, busts & pivots

    This episode features Tara Fung, co-founder of CO:CREATE - a digital platform for tattooing. Tara raised $25m in seed funding from A16z at the height of the NFT hype with a technical vision for how to scale that ecosystem, but ultimately ran into hard times as the market for NFTs collapsed. What followed was a journey into the unknown, seeking ways to successfully pivot the company into something they could build and scale. Tattoos aren’t necessarily the first thing that spring to mind when you think of vc-backed businesses, but Tara’s own experience of getting tattooed served as a point of inspiration for CO:CREATE, coupled with a willingness to explore beyond the typical playbooks. Key topics: Facing uncertainty as a FounderSupportive investorsPivoting your companyBeing sober about the nature of the startup gameTrust online Chapters 00:00 The Evolution of CO:CREATE 12:57 Navigating the Fundraising Landscape 19:04 Navigating Investor Relationships and Pivots 23:48 Motivation and Purpose in Entrepreneurship 30:00 Finding Clarity in Direction and Focus 32:16 Breaking the Playbook: A New Approach to Entrepreneurship 34:23 The Future of Trust in a Distrustful World 38:17 Navigating Attention and Discovery in the Digital Age 42:12 Ethics and Technology: Balancing Business with Societal Impact 43:00 Exploring Trust, Ethics, and Technology 45:29 Empowering Artists in the Tattoo Industry

    47 min
  5. Artist founders and figuring out what AI is really for

    05/08/2025

    Artist founders and figuring out what AI is really for

    In this conversation, I speak to William Morgan and Sylvan Rackham, the Co-Founders of Restless Egg, an incubator for Artist Founders, about the intersection of art, technology, and innovation. They discuss the concept of the 'artist founder', the challenges faced by creative technologists, and the need for a supportive infrastructure to foster their ideas. The conversation explores the role of institutions, funding sources, and the future of technology, particularly in relation to AI. They emphasize the importance of agency in technology and the potential for artist founders to create meaningful experiences that go beyond mere productivity enhancements. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Restless Egg 01:21 Artist founders 04:18 Discovering the Community of Creators 10:10 Key Players in the Artist Founder Ecosystem 14:37 The Role of Philosophy and Technology 20:31 Bridging Art and Technology 25:32 Defining the Artist Founder 28:24 The Future of AI and Experience 29:20 The Role of Artist Founders in E-commerce 32:41 Funding the Creative Frontier 36:58 The Shift in Investment Perspectives 41:03 The Future of Technology and Agency 44:29 AI: Tool or Evolutionary Break? 51:45 The Playful Nature of Innovation 58:59 Empowering Agency Through Technology Where you can hear more from William and Sylvan www.restlessegg.com William's substack Some of the organisations mentioned: AntikytheraRestless EggStrelkaMedialab Some of the people mentioned: Benjamin BrattonRefik AnadolDaisy GinsbergIan Cheng Other resources referenced: Sam Altman blog post about ideas peopleMy post about Creative OutsidersA piece written by friend and collaborator, Danya ShultsAn artificial history of natural intelligence

    1h 4m

About

A podcast for thoughtful technologists. Seb Agertoft - Coach to tech company founders and leadership teams - interviews founders, technologists, artists, investors, thought leaders and policymakers wrestling with the tough questions at the forefront of emergent tech like AI, quantum computing, renewable energy, web3, blockchain, robotics and autonomous vehicles. Not just can we build it, but how to build tech with human interests at heart.