LEANING INTO THE FIRE: a podcast about therapy

Ed Peterson
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  • Mental Health

LEANING INTO THE FIRE: A Podcast About Therapy Conversations That Change Lives Leaning Into the Fire: A Podcast About Therapy explores the real work of healing—what happens when people have the courage to face the parts of themselves they'd rather avoid. Hosted by Ed Peterson, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) Therapist and Supervisor, the podcast features thoughtful conversations with therapists, authors, researchers, and other helping professionals about what truly helps people heal. Drawing from Attachment Theory, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), Jungian psychology, trauma-informed therapy, Internal Family Systems (IFS), and other evidence-based and depth-oriented approaches, each episode explores the ideas, struggles, breakthroughs, and moments of connection that shape our lives. Whether the topic is relationships, anxiety, depression, trauma, addiction, grief, spirituality, or personal growth, every conversation is an invitation to look beneath the surface and discover what makes lasting change possible. This podcast is for therapists, students, clients, and anyone who wants a deeper understanding of themselves and others. Rather than offering quick fixes or surface-level advice, Leaning Into the Fire explores the deeper work of emotional healing—helping listeners build stronger relationships, cultivate greater self-awareness, and live with more authenticity, courage, and connection. Because sometimes the only way forward in life... is to learn to lean into the fire. 🔥

Episodes

  1. 29 Sept

    ADHD, Attachment, and Couples Therapy: A Conversation with Dr. Scott Woolley, EFT Trainer

    In this episode of LEANING INTO THE FIRE: couples therapy conversations, I sit down with Dr. Scott Woolley to explore neurodivergence—especially ADHD—through the lens of Emotionally Focused Therapy. Scott brings both depth and clarity as we unpack how ADHD isn’t just about attention or behavior, but about emotional processing, attachment, and the ways people experience connection. We get into how often ADHD is misunderstood in relationships, and how those misunderstandings can create painful cycles between partners. Scott does an incredible job breaking down what’s really happening underneath the surface. We talk about how ADHD can show up as inconsistency, missed cues, emotional flooding, or shutdown—and how partners often interpret these as lack of care, when in reality something much more complex is going on. This is where EFT becomes so powerful. Instead of pathologizing, we slow things down and begin to understand the emotional experience of both partners, helping each person feel seen rather than blamed. We also get into the practical side—what therapists need to pay attention to when working with neurodivergent clients and couples. Scott shares insights from decades of teaching and training therapists around the world, and how to adapt EFT in a way that honors differences in processing, regulation, and communication. We talk about pacing, structure, and how to create enough safety so that both partners can stay engaged in the work, even when things get intense. What stands out most in this conversation is the sense of hope. When neurodivergence is understood and held with compassion, it stops being “the problem” and instead becomes something couples can navigate together. This episode is about moving out of frustration and into understanding—about helping couples reconnect in a way that actually fits who they are. If you’re a therapist, or someone in a relationship where ADHD plays a role, this one will land.

    ADHD, Attachment, and Couples Therapy: A Conversation with Dr. Scott Woolley, EFT Trainer

  2. 21 Sept

    LEANING INTO THE FIRE: an interview with Dr Teri Murphy on: The Dark Night of the Soul -- Finding Yourself During Big Life Changes

    Dr. Terry Murphy, an Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) trainer and therapist, opens up about the deeply personal journey that unfolded as she prepared to step more fully into her role as a teacher and trainer. What began as a recognition that she needed to stop building outward and start turning inward became what she describes as a “dark night of the soul”—a season of intentionally stepping away from work, achievement, and external identities to discover what remained underneath it all. Terry shares what happened when she reduced her clinical practice by 75%, stopped taking new clients, paused business coaching and supervision, and created space to simply be. Rather than immediately finding peace, she encountered grief. She revisited childhood narratives, relationships, identity, and the layers she had developed over a lifetime to navigate the world. She describes the experience of peeling those layers away as painful, disorienting, and ultimately transformative. At the heart of Terry’s story is a powerful question: Who are we when we strip away the roles that tell us who we are? Therapist. Trainer. Mother. Partner. Teacher. When all of those identities were set aside, Terry discovered a deeper sense of simply being—and with it, a renewed understanding of worthiness, self-compassion, boundaries, and connection. She also shares the daily practices that now help her stay grounded, including journaling, meditation, movement, reading, time with loved ones, and protecting space for reflection. This conversation offers a beautiful look at how personal transformation can reshape the way we care for others. Terry talks about bringing this deeper sense of presence into her work with clients, supervisees, and therapists in training, emphasizing that our compassion for others is incomplete if it doesn't include ourselves. Her story is an invitation to slow down, listen inwardly, and discover what might be waiting beneath the identities and expectations we have accumulated along the way.

    LEANING INTO THE FIRE: an interview with Dr Teri Murphy on: The Dark Night of the Soul -- Finding Yourself During Big Life Changes

  3. 15 Sept

    Inside Brave Love, Great Sex: Laurie Watson & George Faller’s New Book on Sex, Love, and Attachment — with Jim Thomas

    In this episode of Leaning Into the Fire: A Podcast About Therapy, I sit down with Dr. Laurie Watson and EFT Trainer Emeritus Jim Thomas to explore Laurie Watson and George Faller’s new book, Brave Love, Great Sex: Harnessing Attachment Theory for Passionate Relationships. At the heart of the conversation is a powerful idea: a couple’s emotional relationship and sexual relationship are deeply connected—but they don’t always follow the same pattern. As EFT therapists, we know the pursue-withdraw cycle. One partner reaches for emotional connection while the other pulls away. But Laurie describes how that pattern can actually reverse sexually. The emotional withdrawer may become the sexual pursuer, while the emotional pursuer may become the sexual withdrawer. She calls this the “crisscross” pattern. That distinction can completely change how we understand couples. Laurie challenges therapists not to assume that if we repair the emotional bond, the sexual relationship will simply take care of itself. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn’t. Sex deserves to be talked about directly. Who reaches sexually? Who pulls away? What does being desired mean to each partner? What happens emotionally when one partner reaches and hears no? And what happens inside the other partner when sexual reaching begins to feel like pressure? Laurie and Jim encourage therapists to slow these moments down rather than jumping immediately to solutions about frequency, technique, or compromise. Underneath sexual conflict there is often something much more vulnerable. Jim describes it simply as the “ouch.” The sexual pursuer may appear demanding, but underneath may be the pain of no longer feeling wanted by the person they love. The sexual withdrawer may appear rejecting, but underneath may be fear, pressure, shame, hurt, or a lack of emotional safety. Our job isn't to decide who is right. It is to help couples understand the vulnerable experience underneath the positions they have become trapped in. Jim connects this with Sue Johnson’s description of healthy sexuality as a kind of “safe adventure.” Emotional security can create room for playfulness, risk, exploration, and erotic vulnerability. But Laurie and Jim also emphasize the reverse: positive sexual connection can strengthen the emotional bond. We also talk about therapists’ own discomfort with sexuality. Jim offers a wonderfully simple suggestion: ask about sexual history the way we ask about attachment history. What did someone learn about sex growing up? What shaped their desire, shame, fear, pleasure, expectations, and sense of safety? Brave Love, Great Sex follows couples not only through emotional repair but toward what Laurie describes as erotic exploration—helping partners rediscover curiosity, playfulness, vulnerability, and erotic energy once the relationship becomes safer. Perhaps the simplest idea in the entire conversation is also one of the most important: Couples are not only attachment partners. They are lovers. Being unwanted by your lover can hurt at an extraordinarily deep level. Sexual reaching is incredibly vulnerable. And understanding the attachment meaning underneath both sexual pursuit and sexual withdrawal can open a completely different conversation. This episode is especially relevant for EFT therapists, couples therapists, and sex therapists, but couples themselves will recognize much of their own experience here. Ultimately, Laurie Watson and George Faller’s Brave Love, Great Sex challenges us not to separate great love from great sex. Emotional security can make erotic exploration possible, and sexual connection can deepen emotional security. That reciprocal relationship is at the heart of the book—and at the heart of this conversation with Laurie Watson and Jim Thomas. Hosted by Ed Peterson, LCSW, MBA — Certified Emotionally Focused Therapy Therapist and Supervisor.

    Inside Brave Love, Great Sex: Laurie Watson & George Faller’s New Book on Sex, Love, and Attachment — with Jim Thomas

  4. 9 Sept

    What Sue Would Want Us To Remember About EMPATHIC REFLECTION: an interview with Jim Thomas, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) Trainer Emeritus

    In this episode, EFT Trainer Emeritus Jim Thomas takes us back to one of the most basic—and most powerful—skills in therapy: empathic reflection. Through conversation and live role plays, Jim demonstrates how staying close to a client’s actual words can help them feel deeply seen, understood, and emotionally safe. We explore why therapists often work too hard, move too quickly toward interpretation or intervention, and miss the transformative power of simply being with someone before trying to change them.

    What Sue Would Want Us To Remember About EMPATHIC REFLECTION: an interview with Jim Thomas, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) Trainer Emeritus

  5. 19 Aug

    Ali Barbosa, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) Trainer on Attachment, Vulnerability, and Individual Therapy

    In this episode of Leaning Into the Fire, I sit down with EFT trainer Ali Barbosa for a deeply personal conversation about attachment, emotional safety, and what it means to have a “safe harbor” when life becomes painful. Ali explores how attachment gives us a compassionate way to understand shame, fear, vulnerability, and the protective strategies we use when we feel overwhelmed. We then move beyond talking about therapy and into a real EFIT role play, with Ali as the therapist and me as the client, using an actual experience from my life involving comparison, self-worth, anxiety, and my lifelong struggle with stuttering. Along the way, Ali demonstrates the power of slowing down, staying with emotion rather than rushing to fix it, honoring the ways we protect ourselves, and helping vulnerable experiences become less lonely. At the heart of our conversation is a simple but powerful idea: healing doesn't mean we stop feeling vulnerable—it means we learn that we don't have to be vulnerable alone.

    Ali Barbosa, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) Trainer on Attachment, Vulnerability, and Individual Therapy

  6. 30 Jul

    Kathryn de Bruin, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) on mentorship and social connection among therapists

    Kathryn de Bruin, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), therapist and trainer shares with us her take on the need for therapists to connect through mentorship, social support, and co-regulation. She is a brilliant therapist and trainer and teacher, and she has a huge heart. You can listen to the full interview on the episode of the podcast: "LEANING INTO THE FIRE: a podcast about therapy" ----- here is the link to the episode: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2603389

    Kathryn de Bruin, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) on mentorship and social connection among therapists

  7. 25 Jul

    Dr Debi Gilmore: A NEW SEASON OF LIFE: A NEW PODCAST AND MORE

    In this episode of LEANING INTO THE FIRE: Couples Therapy Conversations, I sit down with Dr. Debi Gilmore for a conversation about stepping into a new season of life—personally, professionally, and creatively. Debi brings a grounded, wise, and deeply human perspective as she shares what it’s been like to evolve after decades of motherhood, years of clinical work, and a growing presence as a leader, teacher, and now podcast host. This is a conversation about reinvention, courage, and staying open to what’s next. Debi walks us through her remarkable journey—from 25 years as a full-time mother to returning to school and eventually earning her doctorate in Marriage and Family Therapy. We talk about what it means to start over later in life, the doubts and determination that come with that path, and how her experiences shaped the therapist, teacher, and leader she is today. There’s something powerful here for anyone who’s wondering if it’s too late—or if there’s still more they’re meant to step into. We also get into her work in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), her role in mentoring therapists, and the impact of building something bigger than just a private practice. As co-owner of the EFT Counseling and Education Center in Utah, Debi has helped train and guide both new and seasoned clinicians, and she shares openly about what she’s learned about leadership, growth, and helping others find their voice in this field. We also touch on her book Conquering Your Inner Critic, and how her approach helps people challenge shame and strengthen self-worth in a real, practical way. At its core, this episode is about expansion—about saying yes to life even when it feels uncertain. Debi shares what inspired her to launch a new podcast and how she continues to follow curiosity, purpose, and connection in this next chapter. It’s an honest, encouraging conversation about growth, legacy, and the idea that we’re never done becoming who we’re meant to be.

    Dr Debi Gilmore: A NEW SEASON OF LIFE: A NEW PODCAST AND MORE

  8. 24 Jul

    Dr Ryan Rana on RESISTANT clients - what's the big deal?

    I am SO STOKED about this episode. Dr Ryan Rana is a rock star in the world of EFT. He trains therapists around the world and is a sought after speaker to corporations and groups of therapists.  In this episode Ryan and I get right into one of the most frustrating parts of therapy—working with clients who are resistant, clients who block us at every turn as we search for vulnerability in them. Ryan artfully unpacks what “resistance” actually is from the attachment theory lens. He makes the argument that when clients are resistant, they are actually doing exactly what we, as therapists, should expect them to do. Negative cycles that cause deep pain and wounding are WHY couples come see us. Ryan does a great job of helping us see the nature of different kinds of resistance and how we can use this resistance, when we come to truly understand it, to do the work of EFT with couples From an EFT lens, we look at resistance as protection—something organized, meaningful, and often necessary at one point in a person’s life. When you start to see it that way, the whole stance of the therapist begins to shift. We talk about what resistance looks like in real sessions: clients who intellectualize everything, avoid emotion, deflect with humor, stay guarded, or keep conversations safely on the surface. Sometimes they agree with everything you say but nothing actually changes. Other times they push back, disengage, or just go quiet. And underneath all of that, there’s usually something much more vulnerable trying not to be exposed. We also spend time on how therapists get pulled out of present process in these moments, falling into two traps:  listening too long to "content"; and digging in and pushing harder, asking more questions, trying to “break through,” or shifting into problem-solving, thus losing attunement.   Ryan does a great job breaking down how to work WITH resistance instead of against it. That means getting curious about it, naming it gently, and helping the client see how it is a protective strategy that has worked well in the past, but that this same strategy is now driving the negative cycle, and causing deep pain for both partners.  We get into very practical ways to access what’s underneath. How do you stay with just a small amount of emotion? How do you know if you, as the therapist,  you help someone feel safe enough to risk going deeper? How do you track when you’re going too fast or missing the moment entirely? These are the kinds of micro-skills that make a big difference. There’s also a strong focus on the therapist’s internal experience. Resistant clients can trigger frustration, self-doubt, even a sense of failure. You can start to feel like you’re not doing good work, or that the client just “isn’t motivated.” We talk about how important it is to notice that reaction, slow yourself down, and come back to a grounded, non-defensive place. Another big theme in this episode is trust—trusting the process, trusting that resistance has a purpose, and trusting that if you stay emotionally engaged and attuned, something will eventually shift. Not by force, but by connection. We also touch on how to repair moments when things go off track. When you push too hard, miss something important, or feel the client shut down even more. Those moments, when handled well, can actually deepen the work instead of derail it. This episode isn’t about a set of techniques you can memorize. It’s about a shift in how you see your clients and how you show up with them. When resistance is no longer the enemy, the work opens up in a completely different way. If you’ve ever felt stuck with a client, unsure how to move forward, or frustrated that nothing seems to be changing, this conversation will help you reset. It brings you back to the core of EFT: slow down, stay with the emotion, respect the protection, and keep

    Dr Ryan Rana on RESISTANT clients - what's the big deal?

  9. 15 Jul

    DR LISA PALMER OLSEN

    INTERVIEW WITH DR LISA PALMER OLSEN:  What happens when more than 20 of the world's leading EFT trainers, trauma experts, and attachment researchers come together to tackle the toughest cases therapists face? In this episode of Leaning Into the Fire, Ed Peterson welcomes renowned EFT Trainer Lisa Palmer-Olsen for an inspiring conversation about the upcoming EFT Triage Conference in Las Vegas. Lisa shares the heart and vision behind this one-of-a-kind event, where leaders from Emotionally Focused Therapy, neuroscience, AEDP, ISTDP, and other cutting-edge approaches come together—not to debate—but to learn from one another in service of better helping clients heal. Together, Ed and Lisa explore why some of the greatest breakthroughs in therapy happen when clinicians are willing to examine their own blocks, embrace vulnerability, and stay open to new perspectives. They discuss the often-overlooked importance of the self of the therapist, how therapist growth directly impacts client outcomes, and why community, humility, and lifelong learning are essential for becoming an exceptional clinician. Whether you're an experienced EFT therapist, just beginning your attachment journey, or simply passionate about helping people heal from trauma and relationship pain, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a compelling invitation to keep growing. Topics include: The vision behind the groundbreaking EFT Triage ConferenceTreating trauma, addiction, affairs, and betrayal through an attachment lensWhy the therapist's own emotional process mattersLearning from multiple therapy models while staying grounded in EFTThe power of supervision, community, and vulnerability in clinical growthHow great therapists continue stretching, learning, and evolving throughout their careersIf you've ever felt stuck in your work—or simply want to become a more confident, emotionally attuned therapist—this conversation will challenge, inspire, and remind you why this work matters.

    DR LISA PALMER OLSEN
  • 9 Episodes

About

LEANING INTO THE FIRE: A Podcast About Therapy Conversations That Change Lives Leaning Into the Fire: A Podcast About Therapy explores the real work of healing—what happens when people have the courage to face the parts of themselves they'd rather avoid. Hosted by Ed Peterson, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) Therapist and Supervisor, the podcast features thoughtful conversations with therapists, authors, researchers, and other helping professionals about what truly helps people heal. Drawing from Attachment Theory, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), Jungian psychology, trauma-informed therapy, Internal Family Systems (IFS), and other evidence-based and depth-oriented approaches, each episode explores the ideas, struggles, breakthroughs, and moments of connection that shape our lives. Whether the topic is relationships, anxiety, depression, trauma, addiction, grief, spirituality, or personal growth, every conversation is an invitation to look beneath the surface and discover what makes lasting change possible. This podcast is for therapists, students, clients, and anyone who wants a deeper understanding of themselves and others. Rather than offering quick fixes or surface-level advice, Leaning Into the Fire explores the deeper work of emotional healing—helping listeners build stronger relationships, cultivate greater self-awareness, and live with more authenticity, courage, and connection. Because sometimes the only way forward in life... is to learn to lean into the fire. 🔥

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