The President of the International Bar Association (IBA), Claudio Visco talks about accountability, international justice, democracy, and the future of the rule of law in an increasingly turbulent world. Discussing Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Claudio explains why the IBA has supported efforts to establish a Special Tribunal for the Crime of Aggression and reflects on the challenges of ensuring accountability for serious violations of international law. The conversation also examines the war in Gaza and the international legal response to the conflict. Claudio acknowledges the complexity of the situation, while expressing concern about the humanitarian consequences of Israel's actions since the Hamas attacks of 7 October 2023. “In our statement, which we issued immediately after the events, we clearly stressed that we accepted proportionality in the reaction. If you ask me has that proportionality occurred, and this is my personal view – it is Claudio Visco speaking, not the IBA, I am personally convinced it did not.” Claudio also considers whether differing international responses to Ukraine and Gaza risk undermining confidence in global justice mechanisms and discusses the importance of applying international law consistently, regardless of politics or power. The interview explores recent controversies surrounding the International Criminal Court, US sanctions, and executive actions targeting major law firms connected to investigations involving Donald Trump. While warning of growing pressures on legal institutions, Claudio remains hopeful about the resilience of democratic systems. “And this is, for us, an indication that the rule of law is so much part of the culture of a country, like the United States, that we know that the democracy will be able to regain the position that it should have.” The discussion also turns to grave tensions involving Iran, Israel and the United States, with Claudio examining the legal limits of self-defence under the UN Charter. “The United Nations chart says that there must be a reaction to an immediate threat of life or security. Whether what Iran was doing was an immediate threat or not, there was never a clear indication that they were intending to use weapons that they were developing against those states which have been attacking them." Beyond conflict and accountability, Claudio discusses the IBA's work on civic education, democratic resilience and artificial intelligence. He outlines why the organisation has established a dedicated AI Institute to better understand the technology and its implications for both the legal profession and society. The episode concludes with a discussion of the IBA's research into public perceptions of lawyers, the relationship between strong rule-of-law protections and socio-economic outcomes, and why Claudio believes younger generations should not lose faith in democratic institutions despite mounting global challenges. “Younger generations have a very pessimistic situation at what is happening. But for me, this is not justified… we want to take a balanced approach and say, yes, we are the first ones to work on what is going on, and what is going on is a number of serious attacks against the rule of law. But at the same time, you should be aware that the society is reacting. And this is the message we want to convey.” Presented and produced by Evelyn McClafferty. With thanks to our funders: Irish Aid. The views expressed in this episode do not necessarily represent those of Irish Rule of Law International or its donors.
