Most speakers assume their audience is persuadable by good evidence. Psychologist Owen Fitzpatrick, who trained under NLP co-creator Richard Bandler and has travelled to over a hundred countries, including North Korea, Afghanistan and Iran, studying how belief actually forms, argues that's backwards. People believe what feels right, fits their identity, and keeps them inside their tribe. Evidence comes after, as justification. Owen built his reputation on charisma work (his book The Charismatic Edge argued charisma is an impression you create, not something you're born with) before moving into belief and propaganda with his new book Inner Propaganda, out 4 August. In this conversation, he lays out his DELP model (an expansion of Aristotle's ethos, logos, pathos to include demos — understanding your specific audience), explains why intelligent, critical-thinking people are often the most convincing propagandists to themselves, and draws a sharp line between persuasion, manipulation and propaganda that every speaker standing on a stage should sit with. We also get into why spontaneous, unscripted delivery reads as more truthful than polished delivery (with Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" as the example), and why AI's tendency to flatter you is quietly making this problem worse, not better. In this episode: Why charisma is built, not innate, and why it matters more now than when Owen wrote The Charismatic Edge in 2013The DELP model: demos, ethos, logos, pathosWhy perceived authenticity beats actual authenticity, and why spontaneity reads as truthWhy critical thinking doesn't protect you from bad beliefs (argumentation vs investigation)Motivated reasoning, naive realism, and sacred values: why smart people hold ridiculous beliefsThe difference between persuasion, manipulation and propaganda, and why every speaker is, to a degree, a propagandistOwen's practical tools: the belief audit, the feels right/fits in/makes sense framework, and E-Prime language Connect with Owen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/owenfitzp/ The book and the special workshop are available at https://innerpropaganda.com, and you can discover more about Owen and his work at https://owenfitzpatrick.com FAQWhat is Owen Fitzpatrick's DELP model? The DELP model is Owen Fitzpatrick's expansion of Aristotle's rhetorical triad of ethos, logos and pathos. Owen adds demos, the requirement to understand the specific audience being addressed, alongside ethos (credibility and positioning), logos (logical structure and evidence) and pathos (emotional impact). What is Owen Fitzpatrick's book Inner Propaganda about? Inner Propaganda is Owen Fitzpatrick's book, to be released on 4th of August 2026, about how individuals generate their own propaganda internally through feelings, self-narratives and motivated reasoning. It argues that people convince themselves of beliefs the same way state propaganda convinces populations, through internal versions of state media, indoctrination and truth engineering. What is the difference between persuasion, manipulation and propaganda, according to Owen Fitzpatrick? Persuasion is the ethical attempt to change beliefs, attitudes or behaviour while genuinely caring about what the other person wants. Manipulation uses deception and serves only the persuader's own interests. Propaganda combines both, using every available tool of persuasion and manipulation to construct an entire reality for the audience. Why doesn't critical thinking protect people from believing false things? According to Owen Fitzpatrick, critical thinking and intelligence make people better at constructing airtight arguments (argumentation) rather than at genuinely investigating what is true (investigation). Motivated reasoning, a concept from psychologist Ziva Kunda, refers to people reasoning toward conclusions they already want to be true. What is naive realism? Naive realism is the belief that one's own perception of reality is objectively accurate and shared by anyone reasonable. Owen Fitzpatrick argues this prevents people from applying the same critical scrutiny to their own beliefs that they readily apply to beliefs they disagree with. What is E-Prime language and why does Owen Fitzpatrick use it? E-Prime is a form of English that eliminates the verb "to be," originally developed by David Bourland based on Alfred Korzybski's work on language and semantics. Owen Fitzpatrick uses it as a belief-flexibility tool: replacing "this is true" with "this seems true to me" builds in the possibility of revision. Visit https://strategic-speaker.scoreapp.com to take the 2-minute Strategic Speaking Business Audit and find out what's blocking you from getting more bookings, re-bookings, referrals and bigger fees. There's a special surprise gift for everyone who completes the quiz. Want to get coached for free on the show? Fill in the form https://forms.gle/mo4xYkEiCjqtz9yP6, and if we think your challenge could help others, we'll invite you on. For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence Thanks for listening. Rating the show 5* on Spotify helps their algo recommend the show, so please take a moment to follow the show and leave a rating. Mentioned in this episode: Do you want to join the Known, Booked & Paid Blueprint September Case Study group? This September I'll be working with a group of 5 speakers who are already speaking but not getting the level of bookings and speaker fees that they really want. We'll work on the 3 key areas that will allow your speaking business to flourish. Since it's the founding group, there's an extra special deal on the price for joining that will never be repeated. Go to https://presentinfluence.com/kbpb for full details.
