The Good Leadership Podcast

Charles Good

The Good Leadership Podcast helps leaders outlearn, outthink, and outperform. Each week, host Charles Good sits down with leading authors, researchers, and practitioners to unpack the science of leadership, learning, behavior change, decision-making, and human performance. More than inspiration, each episode delivers practical ideas you can apply to think better, lead smarter, and perform when it matters most.

  1. 3 days ago

    Turn Great Experiences Into Lasting Change: Rethinking How You Create Customer Value with Joe Pine

    What are your customers really buying? Often, it isn’t the product, service, or even the experience itself. They are buying what they hope it will help them achieve, change, or become. In this episode of The Good Leadership Podcast, Charles Good talks with Joe Pine, bestselling author of The Experience Economy, about the next evolution of value creation: moving beyond memorable experiences to helping customers achieve meaningful, lasting transformation. Joe explains why leaders need to look beyond functional “jobs to be done” to understand the deeper aspirations customers are pursuing. He shares how asking the Five Whys can uncover those aspirations and why the type of change a customer seeks should determine how an organization designs the journey. The conversation also explores one of Joe’s most useful distinctions: time well saved, time well spent, and time well invested. As Joe puts it, “The most precious resource is the time of individual human beings.” Experiences make time worth spending. Transformations make that time an investment in a better future. You’ll also hear why genuine transformation is different from a powerful event or temporary improvement, why lasting change ultimately involves identity, and why Joe believes fostering human flourishing should be the purpose of every business. In this episode: The transformation economy and how it differs from the experience economyCustomer aspirations, Jobs to Be Done, and the Five WhysTime well saved, time well spent, and time well investedHow to distinguish lasting transformation from short-term changeWhy “experience design is the design of time”Identity change as the foundation of genuine transformationHow to diagnose the type of change customers actually seekThe four spheres of human flourishing: health, wealth, knowledge, and purposeWhy purpose and human flourishing belong in business strategyPractical ways leaders can design experiences and organizations for meaningful change CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to the transformation economy and its significance01:42 Joe Pine's background and journey into transformation economics03:27 Why customers buy means to an end, not just products04:42 Using the Five Whys to uncover customer aspirations07:01 Moving beyond functional jobs to aspirational jobs08:17 Distinguishing real transformations from events12:40 The importance of time as a core value in experiences16:59 Time well invested and the role of transformation19:53 Fostering human flourishing as the true purpose of business22:34 The four spheres of human flourishing and their overlap26:50 Designing for meaningful change and organizational purpose30:39 Practical steps for leaders to implement transformation strategies Subscribe to The Good Leadership Podcast: [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/charlesagood⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Substack Channel (Outlearn to Outperform): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠charlesgood.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn Newsletter (The Outlearn Advantage): [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Institute for Management Studies

  2. 11 Aug

    Standing Out in the AI Age: How to Stay Visible, Valuable, and Relevant with Sally Helgesen

    AI can help us work faster, produce more, and automate tasks that once took years to master. But as technology becomes more capable, a more important question emerges: What will continue to make you valuable? In this special 300th episode milestone series of The Good Leadership Podcast, Charles Good sits down with internationally bestselling author, speaker, and leadership expert Sally Helgesen to explore what actually compounds across a career when the tools, expectations, and nature of work keep changing. Sally explains why visibility matters more when great output becomes easier to produce, why leaders must learn to articulate the value they create, and why deeply human capabilities such as listening, adaptability, relationships, presence, and judgment may become more important rather than less. They also examine a growing risk of AI: if technology takes over the early work through which people traditionally developed expertise, where will the next generation learn the judgment required to lead? Sally also shares important lessons from her own career, including why usefulness ultimately matters more than demonstrating how much you know and why becoming a better speaker required her to prepare less, listen more, and become more responsive to the people in the room. The conversation closes with a practical challenge: rather than trying to predict every way AI might transform your career, identify the capability people already value most in you, strengthen it, and learn how to clearly communicate the value it creates. In this episode, you’ll discover: • Why working harder does not necessarily create greater career security• Why visibility and articulating your contribution matter more in the AI age• What we risk when AI removes the apprenticeship work that develops expertise• Why presence, listening, relationships, and adaptability continue to compound• How to identify and strengthen the capability that makes you uniquely valuable Chapters02:16 The importance of inclusive leadership and cultures of belonging04:58 The dangers of over-pressuring teams and unrealistic expectations06:32 Visibility strategies for female leaders in the AI era08:38 What compounds for leaders and what is at risk in the AI era09:01 The importance of human recognition and respect10:15 The significance of owning your contributions in the AI age12:04 The apprenticeship problem and the loss of experiential learning14:31 The Pope's encyclical on AI and its implications15:58 The role of dignity and meaningful work in engagement16:54 The human element in teamwork and collaboration17:28 The risks of undervaluing human judgment and relationships18:08 Personal insights from Sally Helgesen's career evolution20:37 Overcoming over-preparation and embracing improvisation23:58 The joy of being present and improvising in work24:19 The importance of a to-don't list for leadership growth25:15 Starting with what truly matters in the face of AI change26:28 Focusing on high-value skills and contributions27:31 Where to find Sally Helgesen and her work28:19 Closing thoughts: Leadership qualities that endure in the AI era Subscribe to The Good Leadership Podcast: [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/charlesagood⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Substack Channel (Outlearn to Outperform): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠charlesgood.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn Newsletter (The Outlearn Advantage): [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Institute for Management Studies

  3. 4 Aug

    Why Leaders Need a Disruptive Growth Strategy in the AI Era with Whitney Johnson

    AI can help us work faster, produce stronger outputs, and appear more capable. But what happens when technology allows us to skip the slow and uncomfortable stage where real learning takes place? In this episode, Charles Good speaks with Whitney Johnson, one of the world’s leading experts on personal disruption and the S-Curve of Learning. Whitney explains why every period of growth begins with uncertainty and discomfort, accelerates through a productive sweet spot, and eventually reaches mastery. The challenge is recognizing when mastery has become a plateau and finding the courage to become a beginner again. AI may weaken the signals that once pushed people toward a new challenge. Output can remain strong even when learning has slowed. Professionals may look productive while the capability beneath their work stops growing. Charles and Whitney discuss how to recognize restlessness and boredom as signals for change, why learning agility becomes more valuable as technology advances, and how trust, character, and human presence continue to compound. They also explore how professionals can use AI as a mirror for development by reviewing conversations, improving their listening, challenging their assumptions, and identifying one way to become 5 percent better. Key Takeaways • Growth follows an S Curve with launch, acceleration, and mastery phases. • AI can muffle the signal that it’s time to disrupt yourself. • Naming the feelings associated with change can reduce fear and restore your ability to act. • Learning agility is a capability that remains valuable across roles and technological shifts. • Trust, character, and presence become more important as knowledge becomes easier to access. • Small improvements practiced consistently can produce extraordinary long term growth. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the series and the pattern of growth in the AI era 02:11 Why leaders feel less confident despite working harder 04:43 Unpacking the phases of the S Curve and their feelings 06:07 The importance of naming feelings to tame fear 07:02 AI’s role in muffling the jump signal and delaying growth 07:54 Recognizing restlessness and boredom as growth signals 09:00 The importance of wrestling with discomfort for growth 09:26 What compounds for leaders and what is at risk 10:19 The importance of trust, character, and presence in leadership 11:44 The meta skill of learning agility in the AI era 12:53 The risk of skipping the slow part of growth with AI 13:30 The value of doing things you’re bad at for growth 14:18 Signals that indicate you’re on the right growth curve 16:31 Whitney Johnson’s personal disruptions and internalized lessons 18:56 Signs you’re at the top of your growth curve 21:50 Managing multiple S Curves in your career and life 22:16 Using AI as a mirror for self development 23:28 The importance of human qualities in the AI age 24:20 The power of small, consistent improvements over time 25:01 How to connect with Whitney Johnson and further resources Whitney Johnson is the bestselling author of Disrupt Yourself and Smart Growth. Her S Curve framework helps individuals and organizations understand how growth feels, why people plateau, and what it takes to begin climbing again. This episode is part of The Good Leadership Podcast milestone series, What It Takes to Keep Rising in the AI Era. Subscribe to The Good Leadership Podcast: [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/charlesagood⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Substack Channel (Outlearn to Outperform): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠charlesgood.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn Newsletter (The Outlearn Advantage): [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Institute for Management Studies

  4. 28 Jul

    Building Leadership Capability in the AI Age with Dave Ulrich

    Artificial intelligence can accelerate output, but sustainable performance depends on whether human and organizational capability can keep pace. In this milestone episode of The Good Leadership Podcast, Charles Good speaks with renowned leadership and HR thinker Dr. Dave Ulrich about turning individual talent into organizational capability that creates value for customers, investors, employees, and communities. Dr. Ulrich explains the difference between competence—what an individual knows, does, and embodies—and capability—what an organization consistently does well. He explores how leaders can combine AI with the distinctly human strengths of vision, innovation, emotion, and wisdom while protecting judgment, honest feedback, human connection, and the future leadership pipeline. The conversation also examines the danger of mistaking increased activity for stronger capability, why leaders must become better observers of themselves and others, and how careers and leadership brands must evolve in an AI-driven world. This episode is part of our milestone series, What It Takes to Keep Rising in an AI Era. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction and Milestone Series Announcement01:23 Dr. Ulrich’s Perspective on Turning Talent Into Value02:09 The Difference Between Competence and Capability03:21 Leadership Challenges in a Volatile World04:16 The Multiplier Effect of Human Ingenuity and AI05:40 Four Pillars of Human Ingenuity: Vision, Innovation, Emotion, and Wisdom07:41 The Risks of Output Racing Ahead of Capability08:37 Creating Value for Stakeholders10:21 Signals of Building Activity Versus Capability12:56 The Power of Honest Feedback in Leadership14:20 Leadership in the AI Age: Human Connection and Feedback16:17 The Risks of Automation and the Future Leadership Pipeline19:05 Redefining Careers and Developing Future Leaders22:28 Self-Interrogation and an Evolving Leadership Mindset27:10 A Critical Leadership Skill: Observation and Reflection32:59 Building a Leadership Brand in the AI Era34:36 Final Reflections and Connecting With Dr. Ulrich Subscribe to The Good Leadership Podcast: [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/charlesagood⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Substack Channel (Outlearn to Outperform): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠charlesgood.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn Newsletter (The Outlearn Advantage): [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] ⁠⁠⁠The Institute for Management Studies

  5. 21 Jul

    Winning the Long Game With AI: Building Advantage That Compounds | Dorie Clark

    AI can make your work faster, cleaner, and more impressive. But can it also create an illusion of competence—improving the output while the judgment, expertise, and original thinking underneath it stop developing? In this special episode of The Good Leadership Podcast, Charles Good speaks with bestselling author and globally recognized business thinker Dorie Clark about what it takes to win the long game in an AI-driven world. Dorie explains why the abundance of information is making human attention increasingly scarce and why leaders must differentiate through clarity, a distinctive perspective, and ideas grounded in real experience. She also discusses the lasting value of trusted relationships, reciprocity, personal branding, visibility, and becoming known for something meaningful. The conversation explores why many capable leaders are working harder while feeling less confident about their futures, how short-term wins can conceal long-term capability erosion, and why AI-generated polish should never be confused with genuine expertise. Dorie Clark teaches executive education at Columbia Business School and is the bestselling author of The Long Game, Reinventing You, Stand Out, and Entrepreneurial You. She has been named four times to the Thinkers50 list of the world’s leading business thinkers. This conversation is part of our milestone series, What It Takes to Keep Rising in the AI Era. CHAPTERS 02:25 Having a long-term strategy in a speed-driven world 03:28 Scarce attention in an age of abundant information 04:32 The value of in-person experiences and relationships 05:04 Differentiating through clarity and perspective 06:30 Why leaders are working harder but less confident 07:04 Learning AI skills through deliberate practice 08:59 The myth of career stability and reinvention 09:59 Personal branding, visibility, and adaptability 11:16 Building reciprocal human relationships 12:17 Short-term wins versus long-term capability 13:11 The artisan mindset and generalist skills 14:22 The illusion of competence created by A I16:04 The capabilities most at risk in the AI era 16:33 Andrew Ridgeley, likability, and relationships 18:32 Trust and the power of a strong network 19:19 Building judgment through difficult problems 20:08 Using AI as a sparring partner 20:52 Investing time in strategic assets and skills 23:15 Dorie’s focus on video, content, and AI mastery 24:07 Career lessons and the importance of a platform 26:21 Community and accurate information in career growth 27:08 Long-term success and the need for patience 28:02 Using analytics and feedback to improve 29:42 When to stay the course or reposition 30:48 Exponential growth and patience 32:17 Small actions that create long-term returns 33:42 AI, healthcare innovation, and human longevity 34:12 One practical step for building long-term capability 36:34 Braces and the power of consistent action 37:07 Final advice on relationships and deliberate practice Subscribe to The Good Leadership Podcast: [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/charlesagood⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Substack Channel (Outlearn to Outperform): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠charlesgood.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn Newsletter (The Outlearn Advantage): [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] ⁠⁠⁠The Institute for Management Studies

  6. 14 Jul

    Beyond Belief: The Hidden Driver of Behavior Change with Nir Eyal

    What if your motivation problem is actually a belief problem? We often assume that knowing what to do and understanding why it matters should be enough to change our behavior. Yet knowledge rarely produces lasting action on its own. The missing ingredient is often the belief that our effort will make a difference. In this episode of The Good Leadership Podcast, Charles Good speaks with Nir Eyal, New York Times bestselling author of Hooked, Indistractable, and his new book, Beyond Belief. Nir explains how beliefs function as working models of reality, shaping what we notice, what we expect, how we feel, and what we ultimately do. Rather than treating beliefs as unquestionable truths or relying on empty positive thinking, he offers a science-backed approach to developing beliefs that are useful, empowering, and open to revision when new evidence emerges. This conversation is not about pretending that obstacles do not exist. It is about developing beliefs that help us see reality more clearly, persist through discomfort, and recognize where our actions can meaningfully influence the outcome. NIR EYAL is a globally recognized authority on behavior change and human potential. His frameworks have empowered millions to build better habits, enhance focus, and unlock greater agency in their lives and work. He is the New York Times bestselling author of the international bestsellers Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products and Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life, which have sold over one million copies in more than 30 languages. Hooked was a finalist for the 2014 Goodreads Choice Awards. Indistractable won the 2019 Outstanding Works of Literature (OWL) Award and was named one of the Best Business & Leadership Books of the Year by Amazon, Audible, and The Globe and Mail. His third book, Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results, became an instant New York Times best-seller and reveals how to identify and replace the hidden beliefs that define our limits. His writing has been featured in The New York Times, Harvard Business Review, The Atlantic, and Psychology Today. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Beliefs and Human Performance01:07 Nir Eyal’s Background and Work02:12 From Habits to Behavior Change03:38 Why We Don’t Do What We Know05:03 Beliefs as the Linchpin of Motivation06:55 What Is a Belief? Fact, Faith, or Tool?07:49 The Three Powers of Belief09:16 Beliefs Filter Our Reality11:09 Seeing Through the Lens of Beliefs13:01 Beliefs and the Perception of Opportunities16:34 Anticipation and Experience Loops20:25 The Power of Expectation in Experience25:39 Beliefs and Behavior: Building Hope28:37 The Role of Limiting and Liberating Beliefs30:22 The Impact of Beliefs on Performance34:58 Pain, Discomfort, and Growth36:56 The Problem With Positive Thinking38:24 Mental Contrasting and Preparing for Obstacles40:06 The Dark Side of Labels and Nocebos42:00 The Power of Expectations and Placebos44:08 Changing Limiting Beliefs for Empowerment45:18 Actionable Steps to Re-Engineer Beliefs Subscribe to The Good Leadership Podcast: [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/charlesagood⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Substack Channel (Outlearn to Outperform): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠charlesgood.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn Newsletter (The Outlearn Advantage): [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] ⁠⁠The Institute for Management Studies

  7. 7 Jul

    The Human Side of AI Transformation with Alison McCauley

    AI is not just changing the tools leaders use. It is changing how leaders think, learn, make decisions, and build confidence in their own capabilities. This episode is part of our 300th episode milestone series, “What It Takes to Keep Rising in an AI Era.” In this conversation, Charles Good sits down with Alison McCauley to explore one of the most important leadership questions of this moment: how do we use AI without losing the judgment, curiosity, and human capability that make leadership matter? Alison argues that many organizations are doing AI backward: investing heavily in the technology while underinvesting in the people, workflows, and cultural conditions required to turn AI into real value. Alison shares why curiosity matters, why engagement may be more important than ROI in the early stages, how productivity gaps are forming inside organizations, and why the best AI users treat the technology as a thought partner rather than an answer machine. You’ll also hear why leaders need to keep their own thinking in the lead, what it means to become a “compounded human,” and the simple rule that can help you use AI without outsourcing your judgment. For more than two decades, Alison McCauley has helped organizations turn emerging technology into real human-centered value. She is a bestselling author, social scientist, and AI strategist advancing human potential globally. As a digital transformation strategist focused on human-centered technology adoption, she works at the intersection of AI, behavior, and strategy. Chapters: 00:00 Celebrating Milestones in Leadership Conversations03:29 The Role of Curiosity in Thriving with AI06:29 Engagement Over ROI: The New Focus for Organizations09:11 Navigating the Learning Curve of AI11:56 Understanding the Emotional Landscape of Leadership14:30 The Dunning-Kruger Effect and AI Usage17:09 Building Mental Muscles: The Discipline of Thought20:22 Opportunities for New Graduates in the AI Era23:13 Compounding Benefits of AI Engagement25:48 The Human Element in AI-Driven Work28:43 Personal Growth Through Change31:08 Key Behaviors for Effective AI Usage Subscribe to The Good Leadership Podcast: [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/charlesagood⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Substack Channel (Outlearn to Outperform): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠charlesgood.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn Newsletter (The Outlearn Advantage): [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] ⁠The Institute for Management Studies

  8. 30 Jun

    The Price of Nice: Why Brave Leaders Choose Clarity Over Comfort

    Nothing was wrong in that meeting. That's exactly the problem. Everyone was polite. Heads nodding. Full agreement in the room. And then everyone left — and nothing changed. The frustration no one named kept building. The project everyone quietly doubted kept moving. The talented person who never felt heard started updating their resume. Amira Barger calls this the price of nice. In this episode of The Good Leadership Podcast, Charles Good sits down with award-winning executive, author, and professor Amira Barger to unpack the argument every leader needs to sit with: that the "niceness" we mistake for professionalism is often just the avoidance of the conversations that would actually move us forward and that nerve, the willingness to balance honesty with genuine care, is the higher form of respect. This isn't about being harder on people. It's the opposite. It's about offering the most honest thing a leader can give: the truth, delivered with empathy, in service of someone's growth. In this conversation: • Why organizations engineer silence without ever meaning to • The difference between genuine strategy and self-protective avoidance dressed up as strategy • Four diagnostic questions to tell the difference in the moment • What the Challenger disaster still teaches us about the cost of unspoken concerns • How "priming" signals shape whether your team speaks up or stays quiet • Why the same facts, framed differently, create completely different realities • The Three C's — communication, connection, cohesion — and why most teams never climb past the first rung About the guest:Amira Barger is an award-winning executive, author, and professor who helps leaders build workplaces where courage matters more than convenience. Her book, The Price of Nice, grounds its argument in communication theory and social science — making the case that comfort, left unchecked, quietly becomes the thing that keeps teams stuck. ⏱️ Chapters: 00:00 — Introduction to Amira Barger and Her Work 02:16 — The Dangers of Avoidance in Leadership 05:03 — Understanding Nice vs. Nerve 08:36 — Practicing Nerve in Leadership 11:59 — Diagnostic Questions for Leaders 15:05 — The Cost of Silence in Organizations 16:54 — Communication as Infrastructure 19:20 — Challenger Moments in Organizations 22:16 — Priming and Organizational Culture 27:53 — Nice vs. Nerve in Feedback Conversations 30:44 — Framing as a Leadership Superpower 35:32 — The Three C's of Communication Subscribe to The Good Leadership Podcast: [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] | [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/charlesagood⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Substack Channel (Outlearn to Outperform): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠charlesgood.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn Newsletter (The Outlearn Advantage): [⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠] The Institute for Management Studies

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The Good Leadership Podcast helps leaders outlearn, outthink, and outperform. Each week, host Charles Good sits down with leading authors, researchers, and practitioners to unpack the science of leadership, learning, behavior change, decision-making, and human performance. More than inspiration, each episode delivers practical ideas you can apply to think better, lead smarter, and perform when it matters most.

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