Good VR Podcast

Ian Hamilton

Audio from people building toward good VR. Read more about Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com and support independent journalism directly. www.goodvirtualreality.com

  1. 2 days ago

    AltSpace's Third Chance With SideQuest's Shane Harris

    The head of SideQuest is looking to resurrect AltSpace again. The well-loved social platform Altspace closed down twice before. First, the startup behind the service was to close in 2017 during the start of modern VR’s first winter. It was rescued, however, in a last-minute buyout from Microsoft. Then Microsoft pulled the plug in 2023 in a sign of what was yet to come for Horizon Worlds and Rec Room. Now SideQuest CEO Shane Harris is looking to re-launch the service yet again. “Altspace was kind of like a safe space,” Harris said on the Good VR Podcast. “It was a place where people and organizations, groups, even brands could associate with it because they were, a lot more careful about how they presented it, how the avatars were presented, how the worlds, how their policies and how they worked with the community was always different in there.” One of the core questions I had for Harris is whether his approach will be built in such a way that users might have some protection for the permanence of their worlds if SideQuest should be unable to continue it sometime in the future. It’s still early days, so there’s no clear answer to that question, but Harris did make it clear he’s thinking about it. “We are building services behind the scenes to power this new AltSpace that will also be services that we offer out generally to other developers, like live networking, voice and data services, other parts of the platform,” Harris said. “We’ve built browser integrations, we’ve got creation tools and SDKs, we’ve got character systems and avatar systems. And actually what we’ve done is to build all of these out as modular pieces so that we can make those available to other developers as well.” Harris connected to me from Dubai using the podcast recording platform Riverside and I edited the conversation down to around 45 minutes. You can donate any amount via Stripe to support my work at Good Virtual Reality and thank you to my paid Substack subscribers for supporting independent journalism. https://buy.stripe.com/7sY8wPeTAcnG3eD1vZao800 Get full access to Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com/subscribe

    AltSpace's Third Chance With SideQuest's Shane Harris
  2. 3 days ago

    Grabbing Mario From A Nintendo 64 Cartridge And Other Experiments With Lucas Martinic

    I grabbed my Super Mario 64 cartridge off the shelf, backed up the game to my Mac and then stuck the file in a folder on Meta Quest 3. Then I opened the APK sent to me by Lucas Martinic of studio Present Futures. Voila. Mario was controllable by the analog stick on my right controller and, with my left hand, I could reach into the virtual world I first visited around 30 years ago. Mario could stand on my hand, I could lift him up by raising my arm, and I could even pinch him by the hat and pull him forward into the physical room with me. Essentially, the Master Hand from Super Smash Bros was now reality. There Mario was, for the first time in my life, standing there on my dining room table. I pushed the stick to the right and he fell off the edge of the table and started running around on my floor. I put Mario back inside his virtual world and then used the stick to send him into the castle. That’s where the magic ended. I found the limit of Martinic’s work to bridge Super Mario 64 to physical reality. To understand how this remarkable interaction came to be, I invited Martinic on the Good VR Podcast. “That’s the idea, to just inspire other developers and maybe non-XR developers to jump into XR,” Martinic said. During the recording he shared that he worked with an AI agent to make Mario’s transition across mixed reality possible. He said he spends around $600 per month total for three Claude Max plans as part of his ongoing exploratory work with VR headsets. Another project Martinic is working on called Inkphony won $100,000 from a Meta hackathon. The app uses the Logitech MX Ink stylus to draw musical notes directly onto a physical surface and the app promises the ability to pluck sounds from objects in the environment. “We are still…redesigning some stuff because the premise, or the vision, that we presented for that hackathon is not feasible to do,” Martinic explained during the podcast. “It’s possible, but it’s not sustainable. Because the way we set up the vision AI models that we use to manage to do this will surpass what people pay for the app.” The podcast with Martinic is around 18 minutes long and covers the odd economies of eye-catching AI-driven development. Get full access to Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com/subscribe

    Grabbing Mario From A Nintendo 64 Cartridge And Other Experiments With Lucas Martinic
  3. 4 days ago

    Apple Vision Pro In An Operating Room Points To The Cost Of Doctors Turning Their Heads

    A recent paper authored by Dr. Bobby Korn at the University of California, San Diego made some intriguing conclusions from 16 operations completed with physicians wearing Apple Vision Pro to view cameras inside the human body. Here are the listed highlights from the paper, bolding added: * Spatial computing improves ergonomic comfort in endoscopic surgery. * Apple Vision Pro enables immersive, hands-free surgical visualization. * Operative time shortened without increased cognitive workload. * Low cost and small footprint make spatial computing feasible for operating room integration. The paper suggests that, on average, operations could be performed over eight minutes faster because the doctors didn’t keep turning their heads to look at a physical monitor showing the live view from a camera inside the body. “When you’re actually looking at a monitor, you’re actually oftentimes using one monitor that is shared by everyone in the entire room,” Dr. Korn said on the Good VR Podcast. “So it’s not naturally the most ergonomic thing that you’re using. So you’re turning your head, you’re turning your hips, and you’re doing this hundreds of times throughout the case. And that creates a significant amount of fatigue for the surgeon themselves. What ends up happening is that when I’m doing work in the nose, taking instruments in and out, I’m actually doing this hundreds of times during the case. And as I look down and I look up, my eyes are constantly looking for the image on the screen. With the Vision Pro, the image is always in front of us. We always see it.” From the paper’s conclusion: “…contemporary operating room costs approximate $51 per minute. Applying the observed 8.3 min reduction yields an estimated saving of roughly $420 per case, and for a practice performing 100 to 200 endoscopic DCR procedures annually this would correspond to an estimated $42,000 to $85,000 per year.” I encourage you to pair this conversation with my earlier talk with Jamie Lockwood at HMDmd for an overview of the types of procedures that might feature paired cameras providing 3D stereoscopic imagery to doctors looking inside the body. In some situations, doctors might also want an open periphery from their head-mounted display to occasionally look down at their hands directly. Overall, the two conversations paint a picture of the research frontier at the very cutting edge of medical technology. While the scale of the study is small, if its takeaways can be replicated elsewhere, there might be profound implications for healthcare savings provided by VR headsets. “The things that really drew me to Apple’s device was that the resolution is just so high and so crisp,” Dr. Korn said. “The refresh rate is good. But in addition to that, though, is the pass through. So you mentioned that other system where you actually place it over your eye and you’re able to look in the periphery. Every time you do that, your eye has to undergo a process called accommodation where you actually change the shape of your eye…And that just adds to the fatigue and exhaustion to a surgeon if they’re, say, doing an operation for several hours at a time….You want a surgeon who’s comfortable, who can see exceedingly well with the images presented into them, really to give you the best outcome.” Get full access to Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com/subscribe

    Apple Vision Pro In An Operating Room Points To The Cost Of Doctors Turning Their Heads
  4. 5 days ago

    FitXR CEO Sam Cole On Glasses & Bundling Exercise Subscriptions With Hardware Sales

    VR’s ability to instantly embody a person in simulated space turns out to be an incredible match for fitness. The idea that you can forget the pressure of the physical world and get into the rhythmic flow of a workout is one of the ways VR is transforming lives all over the world. I captured some of those stories in a recent writeup about Supernatural’s return to independence, but now I’ve had the CEO of FitXR Sam Cole on the Good VR Podcast to discuss their 10-year story building active fitness applications for VR. If there are any FitXR fans reading this, or listening to the podcast, feel free to send an email to editor@goodvirtualreality.com to tell me about how the service has affected your life for potential coverage in a future article. Please include how you want to be identified in the article and as many details as you can about your fitness journey. “Something like only 4% of Americans have a gym membership and actively use that gym membership. It just shows you that the vast majority of the population aren’t engaging regularly with exercise,” Cole says on the podcast. “The fitness industry looks at people who haven’t formed a habit with exercise — they won’t ever publicly say this — but they’ll generally feel like it’s a problem with the customer. And those customers are fickle and can’t form a habit and therefore [are] a low value to try and serve. But the opposite is true. It’s a problem with the product. The more that you’re able to build a product to serve this audience, the more that you’re able to serve a truly mass market audience.” The conversation with Cole goes full circle from their initial interest in building for an augmented reality headset from Magic Leap to being encouraged to build for VR headsets and finally to the coming wave of glasses-sized VR eyewear that can transform people’s perception about what the devices are for. “We will have headsets soon that feel a lot more like glasses in terms of form factor. That’s going to be really significant for overall adoption … we’ve done a bunch of things with Meta over the years where we’ve tried to sell headsets to our target demographic and really market headsets as pieces of fitness equipment rather than a gaming console. When we talk to customers in that kind of sales process, you really understand their skepticism,” Cole said. “Let’s just zero in on the Quest, for example, when they look at that device, they think gaming console for kids. They can’t envision themselves wearing that. For us it’s a piece of fitness equipment. They can’t see themselves wearing that to do fitness, but they also can’t see themselves wearing that to watch a movie. They can’t see themselves to do that to take a video call, for example. When you put the Quest 3 on them, none of them go, yeah, I mean it’s great, but if it was just a little bit less heavy, I would buy it. It’s all of this preconceived ideas about what it is and isn’t going to be. So I think it’s so much tied to how the device looks in marketing materials and therefore that driving the adoption … more people need to look at the device and answer yes to the question of ‘can I see myself wearing that?’ Even if wearing that only means wearing it in my own home. I’m very supportive of the approach the hardware manufacturers take here trying to drive more use cases of people wearing the devices out in public as well, watching movies on a plane or on a train … But also I get it from a productivity use case as well, whereas if you walked around more cafes, right, and you saw people working with these headsets on, I think that that would be beneficial as well. Those are all secondary to this fundamental question of can I see myself wearing that device? The new devices that are coming, the answer to that is gonna be yes for a lot more people than it has been for the historical devices.” You can donate any amount via Stripe to support my work at Good Virtual Reality and thank you to my paid Substack subscribers for supporting truly independent journalism. https://buy.stripe.com/7sY8wPeTAcnG3eD1vZao800 Get full access to Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com/subscribe

    FitXR CEO Sam Cole On Glasses & Bundling Exercise Subscriptions With Hardware Sales
  5. 15 Aug

    Flat2VR Studios Developing System Shock And High On Life VR Games For 2027

    A pair of newly announced VR games are scheduled for release in 2027 from Flat2VR Studios — System Shock and High On Life. System Shock was the influential precursor to BioShock, first released in 1994 and re-released in 2023 by Nightdive. The remake is getting the full Flat2VR treatment alongside the VR version of humor-shooter High On Life from Squanch Games, where the gun you hold is a live alien commentating as you shoot your way through the world. The two games were announced during the latest VR Games Showcase put together by Jamie Feltham, with a Trombone Champ DLC partnered with Disney joining the announcements from Flat2VR. I scheduled a call with Eric Masher, COO at Flat2VR, for a full rundown of the announcements and to get his view on the state of the VR market. He called in from the airport as he’s heading out to Gamescom where he’ll be taking meetings that might lead to VR games for release in 2029 and beyond. “I tried a DK1,” Masher recalls of his introduction to the medium. “It literally changed things for me at that point. It rekindled what I think gaming could be as an immersive platform. I remember getting out of the headset and talking to my wife and I’m like, this is a life changing moment for me. And it sounds cliche, but I remember and she even remembers like me saying … I need to figure out how I do something in this medium.” Be sure to pair the conversation with the previous episode chatting with Flat2VR Studios CEO Jasmine Uniza for a fuller picture of the efforts at the studio. The discussion with Masher covers the difficulty facing VR developers building for a niche within a niche as several manufacturers ship headsets tuned for hand tracking, often selling controllers as separate accessories. Flat2VR is focused on controllers and the studio’s latest announcements join a slowly growing list of gaming projects for VR headsets that require tracked controllers. “Every game that we have focused on for 2027, 2028, and even beyond stuff that we’re preparing to get started for 2029 and beyond are going to be controller focused,” Masher said. “I would not be doing that if I didn’t believe that most of the gaming headsets would be in some way controller focused. The games that we make and what we focus on as Flat2VR Studios cannot be done hand-tracked.” We spoke for just over 30 minutes on the podcast platform Riverside and I edited the conversation down to under 25 minutes. You can donate any amount via Stripe to support my work at Good Virtual Reality and thank you to my paid Substack subscribers for supporting independent journalism. https://buy.stripe.com/7sY8wPeTAcnG3eD1vZao800 Get full access to Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com/subscribe

    Flat2VR Studios Developing System Shock And High On Life VR Games For 2027
  6. 14 Aug

    Ferryman Collective Plays In VR With Deirdre V. Lyons & Stephen Butchko

    What does it mean to play in VR? It seems a straightforward question. Meta, Valve, Sony, Google, and even Apple all sell games that substitute your reality for a simulated one with rules to learn governing your interactions. These storefronts, however, do little to sell the unique benefits VR offers in embodiment and transportation. “We’re all given this kind of carnival license in this sort of anonymous space to play,” said Ferryman Collective co-founder Deirdre V. Lyons. “We often as adults forget how important it is. How it re-energizes our lives and how it informs our lives and how it allows us to create bonds and special moments that we often don’t allow ourselves time to do.” The Ferryman Collective is a kind of theatre troupe that travels from place to place inside virtual reality to host intimate interactive performances. Most often they perform in VRChat and these days they’re hosting performances of their Emmy-nominated production Uncanny Alley: A New Day. At AWE in Long Beach, California earlier this year I attended one of their other productions alongside Scott Stein, working together with him to make music guided by a performer physically located in Utah. Before the Ferryman Collective formed Lyons was one of the performers who breathed life into Tender Claws acting in The Under Presents and The Tempest. I find live theatre to be one of the most inspiring uses of VR technology, but from Tender Claws to VRChat the productions Ferryman undertakes strain the platforms that host them. And still, some of the most emotionally impactful experiences you might have in VR can happen during one of these performances. “Our work in VR comes to life at the intersection of motion pictures, live theater, and interactive video games,” Ferryman co-founder Stephen Butchko said on the Good VR Podcast. “We pull from all three of those modalities to bring this work to life…this sense of play is for me a release. It is an expression of vulnerability and it’s a sharing of story and emotions with my fellow thespians and audience participants that join us in these performances.” I spoke with Lyons and Butchko about VR theatre for around an hour and trimmed the conversation down to around 43 minutes using the podcasting platform Riverside. You can donate any amount via Stripe to help me with my work at Good Virtual Reality and thank you to my paid Substack subscribers for supporting independent journalism. https://buy.stripe.com/7sY8wPeTAcnG3eD1vZao800 Get full access to Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com/subscribe

    Ferryman Collective Plays In VR With Deirdre V. Lyons & Stephen Butchko
  7. 12 Aug

    Walkabout From Mini Golf To Dungeon Golfer With Mighty Coconut's Lucas Martell

    Walkabout Mini Golf development studio Mighty Coconut is taking everything it learned from developing the best way to spend time with family and friends in VR and starting fresh with a new game. Walkabout Dungeon Golfer is in active development as something of a spin-off or sequel to Walkabout Mini Golf and being developed alongside new courses for the original. The new game is still centered on golfing but the gameplay loop around that activity is completely different, Lucas Martell explains on the Good VR Podcast. He cautions that they’re still prototyping, so things can change, but he offered some details about how they’re approaching its design. “What we have settled on is essentially that you’ve got sort of a small-ish dungeon that’s maybe like the size of three or four different holes kind of combined, but you’re able to freely kind of putt around it,” Martell explains. “And you do have enemies that have hit points and you do damage by putting into them. There’s an exploration element where you’re trying to putt around, you actually get power-ups by putting into cups that give you … health or attack. So very, very basic stat points. But ultimately it’s kind of a roguelite where you are playing through each of these different runs. So a run is not unlike a course. It probably takes twenty to thirty minutes or so. The thing that we have loved the most is that even in the prototypes we started building in multiplayer. So where it really gets interesting is when you do have multiple people in there and you’re able to strategize, you putt into this area which will lure this enemy out, and then I will be able to hit him from the back and use various different power-ups and abilities and in a cool way.” Good Virtual Reality is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. The discussion with Martell is edited to just under 27 minutes with the podcasting platform Riverside and covers the full Walkabout path from inception to investment offers to layoffs earlier this year as well as the continuing independent spirit there grounded in creative artistry. It all started last decade with the founding of the studio on an island in Belize with artists gathered around the production of a short animated film called The OceanMaker. If you haven’t listened to the conversation with Shawn Whiting, who led community development at Rec Room for many years, the path that startup took over roughly the same period as Mighty Coconut makes for a useful companion conversation for understanding what it means to take outside investment in your company versus staying fully independent. “I’ve also seen so many companies kind of get yanked around. And we’ve seen this with all of the different studio closures that have happened where a company gets bought, and even if they are profitable,” Martell said. “There is this push to make 10x what they’re spending on stuff. And it just seems like it’s a very unsustainable model. And it also means that there’s a lot of times where you could have a game that, yeah, sure, it is making a profit, but it’s not enough. And you still end up getting shut down or something happens at the larger owner level where there’s a restructuring. And all of a sudden your mandate changes. I’ve done that dance before, especially in the film industry, and I just don’t like it. Yes, the more money is nice, but the more money comes with so many strings and so many concessions that it means that you can’t run things the way that makes sense. And currently we’re entirely player supported, which just means that what people are spending on the DLCs and the base game, that’s what’s going into development. That’s what allows us to keep making courses. I won’t say that it’s easy and it’s definitely gotten a lot harder this last year or two, just with everything going on in the industry, but we’re still able to make it work.” We also discuss the end of the Walkabout Mini Golf Pocket Edition’s development and how that relates to their strategy building a version of Walkabout Dungeon Golfer that runs on Steam and possibly for consoles with full cross-play to VR. Our conversation was recorded in August 2026 just before the release of the 1990s-inspired Gloop Lair, Walkabout Mini Golf’s 41st course and work is already underway on courses the studio is planning to release in 2028. You can watch the latest design tour with 3D artist Shane Rhodes the moment the course releases. You can donate any amount via Stripe to support my work at Good Virtual Reality and thank you to my paid Substack subscribers for supporting independent journalism. https://buy.stripe.com/7sY8wPeTAcnG3eD1vZao800 Get full access to Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com/subscribe

  8. 10 Aug

    Specialized Firefighter Training In VR With Evan Sitler-Bates

    XpertVR CEO Evan Sitler-Bates joined the Good VR Podcast to discuss work offering firefighters extra training in VR. We spoke for just over 30 minutes and I cut it down to under 24 minutes using the podcasting platform Riverside. “This isn’t about…physical training and we’re not replacing live burns. We’re giving you the sets and reps that you can do on a daily or weekly basis between live burns and other live training,” Sitler-Bates said. “It very quickly changes people’s perception. I would say that going to fire departments and training with thousands or tens of thousands of firefighters at this point, by the time people get into headsets, it’s like a point zero zero one percent of people that are still pushing back on it. The vast, vast majority of people get into a headset and they’re like, okay, I see how realistic the visuals are, I see how the communication and tactics need to work, and I can see how this fits into training between our live training.” VR could affect firefighting in a number of ways in the coming years as the same type of sensors that map your environment in a headset like Quest 3 or Vision Pro could potentially help emergency response personnel essentially see through smoke and flame in video passthrough. We discuss that possibility a little bit during the end of the podcast. “When a firefighter’s putting on their gear, normally it’s about eighty pounds of gear with their turnout, jackets, pants, overalls, with their helmet, their SCBA (Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus) tank, etc. So to add even more weight on top of that, and especially onto somebody’s head, is going to wear people down when they’re trying to fight a fire and run throughout a building and move with the hose,” he said. “It just obviously needs the hardware to get slimmer and [that] price come down.” You can find more information about XpertVR on their website. You can donate any amount via Stripe to support my work at Good Virtual Reality and thank you to my paid Substack subscribers for supporting independent journalism. https://buy.stripe.com/7sY8wPeTAcnG3eD1vZao800 Get full access to Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com/subscribe

    Specialized Firefighter Training In VR With Evan Sitler-Bates

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Audio from people building toward good VR. Read more about Good Virtual Reality at www.goodvirtualreality.com and support independent journalism directly. www.goodvirtualreality.com

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