THE KEN PREMIUM

Listen to full episodes 1-4 weeks before others

2,99 €/mese

Two by Two

The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

  1. Why Jio made Dhurandhar and then gave it away

    15 h fa • Solo The Ken Premium

    Why Jio made Dhurandhar and then gave it away

    But there’s one company in India with every piece of it refuses to spin it In 2017, Disney walked away from a fortune. It pulled Marvel, Star Wars and Pixar off Netflix, ate the lost licensing cheques, and poured the money into a platform it was building from scratch. The logic was the logic of every integrated media company since — if you own the content and you own the pipe, you don't rent your crown jewels to a rival. Content feeds the platform, the platform feeds subscriptions, subscriptions fund the next film. Apple runs it, Amazon runs it, and the entire point of owning both a studio and a streamer is that each is supposed to feed the other. Reliance has every piece of that machine. Jio Studios is the biggest film studio in India — it made Dhurandhar, the highest-grossing Indian film ever. JioStar is the biggest streaming platform in the country, half a billion users, assembled partly from the Disney+ Hotstar business Disney handed over on its way out. Everything Disney took decades to build, Reliance already has under one roof. And roughly 98% of what Jio Studios makes goes to the platforms Reliance is meant to be fighting. When it made the biggest film in the country's history, it gave it away to Netflix. So what does Reliance know something the rest of us don't? Praveen argues for the platform-and-synergy side of the table: the Disney playbook, the flywheel, the studio you own and can brief at will. His two guests have run the platforms he's describing and now produce films for a living fight back against his position by explaining why you can't monopolise storytelling, why your own studio becomes the 301st vendor on your list, and why a franchise is a decade of work no amount of vertical integration can shortcut. Vijay Subramaniam — founder of 29th September Works. Spent 11 years at Walt Disney India as VP of Media Networks, then built Amazon Prime Video India's content engine as Head of Content. Now also a movie producer (Padakalam). Srishti Behl — founder of Starfish Stories, working on IP and international co-productions. Former Director of Original Films at Netflix India (Bulbbul, Serious Men, AK vs AK) and former CEO of Phantom Studios, from a family with a long lineage in Hindi cinema.

    1h 22m
  2. India’s biggest companies can afford to build frontier AI. So why won’t they?

    2 lug • Solo The Ken Premium

    India’s biggest companies can afford to build frontier AI. So why won’t they?

    Three things happened in eleven days. The US ordered Anthropic to cut off its most powerful models for foreign users. HCL Tech put $150 million into Sarvam. And Mukesh Ambani told Reliance shareholders that India cannot keep renting its intelligence. Everyone agrees India needs sovereign AI. And yet, almost nobody agrees on who should pay for it. Most of the money that is moving into AI goes into data centres, the safest layer, not the models themselves. Praveen Gopal Krishnan makes the argument that corporate India has to build and fund the country's foundation models because the state can't do so at scale and the market hasn't chosen to. In this episode, he poses this argument to two guests — one a public policy expert, and the other an AI investor, builder and entrepreneur. Nitin Pai is co-founder and director of Takshashila Institution, India's largest independent public policy school. Manav Garg built Eka Software from India and sold it to a US private equity firm, co-founded Together Fund and AI Bhumi, and is now executive chairman at Emergent — an Indian AI company whose product runs entirely on foundation models it doesn't own. Both Nitin and Manav push back from two different directions and describe the incentives that keep conglomerates out of anything that doesn't compound quarter over quarter, and why the unit that matters isn't the company but the builder willing to take the risk inside it.

    1h 24m
  3. The Meta–Cred–Kunal Shah deal, stripped to its fewest assumptions

    25 giu • Solo The Ken Premium

    The Meta–Cred–Kunal Shah deal, stripped to its fewest assumptions

    In the 48 hours since Meta announced it was putting $900 million into Cred and taking Kunal Shah to run WhatsApp globally, you've probably read a dozen confident explanations of what it all means. Praveen and Rohin don't have one. That's the point of this episode.Because the people who actually know aren't talking, investors have liquidation preferences to protect. Operators have relationships on both sides. Insiders have NDAs. So instead of adding a 13th theory, this episode refuses to start with one.The only tool is Occam's Razor: when explanations compete, take the one that needs the fewest new assumptions, and make the grander stories earn their place. And Praveen and Rohin come into this episode, both having done their own reporting first calls to investors, operators, and ex-Cred and ex-Meta people — and try to figure out the most commonsensical answer to the calculation between Meta, Cred and Kunal Shah.Then they work through their questions, one at a time: What is Meta actually paying for? The headline says an investment in Cred. But strip away the press-release language and ask what the $900 million is really doing — buying a fast-growing fintech, or buying one founder and giving his backers a graceful exit?Is this about Indian payments? The dominant read is that Meta has finally woken up to UPI. But WhatsApp already has the licences, Cred has almost no UPI share, and even the market leaders can't monetise it. So is India the prize here, or are we just assuming it because we're sitting in it?What happens to Cred now? Kunal Shah stays a shareholder, but he's no longer driving it. Once the founder who gave the company its aura — and its valuation — steps away, what's left? A profitable, regulated, lending-first fintech spoken of in the same breath as everyone else? Why would Kunal Shah take this job? And finally, who actually wins and loses from this deal?Every answer gets tested and countered. Then, at the very end, they break their own rule and tell you exactly what they think. References* The Ken — “Where is Kunal Shah? Ask most Cred employees” (July 2024) — https://the-ken.com/story/where-is-kunal-shah-ask-most-cred-employees/* The Ken — Two by Two: Why Stripe could not become the Stripe of India: https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/why-couldnt-stripe-become-the-stripe-of-india/ * Bloomberg — https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-06-23/meta-s-cox-sought-shah-s-whatsapp-advice-then-made-him-leader

    1h 10m
  4. Agents changed everything about hiring except the outcome

    18 giu • Solo The Ken Premium

    Agents changed everything about hiring except the outcome

    The newest way to build a new AI product is to say, “X is broken, and we fixed it using AI”. Well, hiring was probably broken, but AI didn’t change the outcome. Instead, it made it into an arms race where candidates are sold AI tools which help them apply to companies and roles en masse in an automated way. On the other side, recruiters who have increasingly gotten tired of the same AI-generated answers, resumes and artefacts that have been generated by AI have resorted to deploying AI systems to filter out candidates and get what they are looking for. And AI companies sit on both sides of the transaction, billing tokens while hiring outcomes come back to exactly where they were. The answer to fix hiring isn’t in deploying AI better, but in creating processes that abandon it altogether, or at the very least use it sparingly. Hiring needs to be more like a “love-marriage” with the candidate working with you as a live-in relationship. Instead, agents have made it more like an “arranged marriage”, where candidates have agents who create their profile, and agents who evaluate other profiles, before humans even meet each other. Instead of relatives and parents, the machines are doing the role and getting paid for it. Praveen takes this position and argues it against two founders who have gone all-in on incorporating machines and agents to "solve" for hiring. On the company side, Aakash Dharmadhikari, Co-founder of Realfast.ai, has adopted the approach where every candidate must spin up an agent and apply using it on their MCP for all technical and non-technical roles. On the candidate side, Saumil Tripathi, CEO of Grapevine, has created an agentic product called TAL, which helps candidates match and apply for jobs en masse. In this episode, both of these founders defend their approaches and argue that they have, in fact, solved hiring in their own ways, with better outcomes for companies and candidates. Guests: Aakash Dharmadhikari, Co-founder, Realfast.ai · Saumil Tripathi, CEO, Grapevine

    1h 14m
  5. ‘Free the rupee. Let it go’—How to save the market from investors

    11 giu

    ‘Free the rupee. Let it go’—How to save the market from investors

    Everything around the Indian economy looks shaky, i.e., a months-long conflict, a sliding rupee, and a government telling people to stop buying gold. Except for one important caveat: India’s market continues to hold on. The Sensex and Nifty have barely moved.  The reason why that seems to be happening is pretty simple — every month, Indian households pour ₹31,000 crore into equity through SIP (Systematic Investment Plans), and that steady flow is exactly the liquidity foreign investors are using to sell down and leave without crashing anything. So the rupee slides, the RBI burns reserves to slow the fall, and the saver gets squeezed from both ends. Eventually, they are told to stay in the market and to stop buying gold.  Essentially, the Indian saver is not just holding the market up - they may be funding the exit. Praveen puts that thesis to two of the sharpest minds in Indian markets, and they spend the next ninety minutes taking it apart. Anupam Manur argues that foreigners are leaving for real, structural reasons and puts forward a “triple loss” argument, which says that propping up an overvalued market is the way because the Indian saver has nowhere else to go. Deepak Shenoy, on the other hand, argues we're worried about the wrong thing entirely: foreigners still hold most of their money here, we've seen this exact exit before, and the SIP saver isn't going anywhere. Where they land together is stranger than where they started, with specific fixes and policy changes that they’d do in this current situation. The most provocative one is the one that Deepak puts across - "Free the rupee. Let it go. It'll come back." This episode is a conversation about who really owns the Indian market, whether the SIP saver is a floor, and what India would actually have to do to break the loop. Guests Anupam Manur — Professor of Economics, Takshashila InstitutionDeepak Shenoy — Founder & CEO, Capitalmind References Anupam's piece: Taxing Mobile Capital and the Limits of Domestic Absorption (Takshashila)Deepak on X: @DeepakShenoy

    1h 10m
  6. Where are Emergent’s users?

    4 giu

    Where are Emergent’s users?

    Emergent, the vibe-coding startup, has a $100 million annual run rate and 6 million users across 190 countries. Plus, it’s backed by the biggest names in the industry—Khosla Ventures, SoftBank, Google, Lightspeed, and Y Combinator. By most conventional measures, Emergent is the most successful consumer AI startup to come out of India, and is one of the fastest-growing companies anywhere in the world right now. But there’s something strange about Emergent—its users seem to be “invisible”. Historically, all great consumer products follow the same script. It begins with a small, fanatical cohort who discovers it. Those users can’t stop talking about it—on forums, in group chats, at their desks, and on social media. Sometimes, referral codes and invites are sold at a premium online. Word of mouth becomes the engine. Then paid marketing arrives, pouring fuel on a fire that the early users started. All popular consumer products in India, from Cred, Zomato, and Groww, followed a variant of this playbook.  And that’s true for AI companies as well. Cursor got so popular with developers that it practically became a verb. Lovable created a culture where users couldn’t stop sharing all the beautiful websites they’d vibe-coded. And when Claude went down for a few minutes, the internet came to a halt. Emergent has none of that. Search for it on Hacker News, and you’ll struggle to find anyone talking about it. All the stuff that other AI companies seem to have, i.e., the showcase culture, the loyal cohort, the community of users, seems to be missing.  How do we square Emergent’s extraordinary revenue with its equally perplexing invisible users? That’s the question that we try to answer. And to do that, Praveen sits down with Gaurav Bisen, founder of Masonry AI and the person who built Emergent’s early growth engine—zero to $20 million ARR in 120 days with zero paid ads, and with Sumanth Raghavendra, co-founder of Presentations.AI and serial entrepreneur who has watched the same pattern play out with his own product.  Praveen comes in as a skeptic who wants to be convinced, searching for evidence that explains Emergent’s invisible users. And Gaurav and Sumanth argue that Emergent’s missing users isn’t a bug but was most probably a feature.  References:  Emergent founder Mukund Jha’s job depends on not worrying about the next AI model

    1h 23m
  7. Amazon’s quick commerce wildcard is Prime

    28 mag

    Amazon’s quick commerce wildcard is Prime

    There are two ways to tell the quick commerce story in India. The first, and the more conventional way this narrative exists is that quick-commerce is a three-way race between Blinkit, which has pulled ahead with 2,200 dark stores and a roughly half-market share lead, Zepto, which has packed 21 stores per city in a metro saturation play, and Instamart, which sits squeezed in the middle. Every metric the category tracks was built around the assumption that this will be contested on the same set of metrics i.e. dark stores, per-store profitability, density, contribution margin, AOV, etc. But there’s a second narrative that’s unfolding. Amazon has walked into quick-commerce, with its latest offering–Amazon Now. And unlike everyone, it has a singular weapon that none of the others has. On the Q1 2026 earnings call, Andy Jassy spoke less about dark stores, delivery times, or city counts. Instead, he specifically cited one number—Prime members tripling their shopping frequency once they start using Amazon Now, with orders growing 25% month over month. Essentially, Amazon is fighting the quick-commerce battle with a different set of numbers, which measures something different from what the rest of the category measures. Amazon owns something that the others don’t, i.e., the consumers themselves, who are locked into it through a subscription product, Prime. This unlocks possibilities for a new kind of flywheel to emerge. In this episode, Praveen sits down with Vishal Gahlaut (chief business officer, Hopscotch; ex-Myntra) and Aditya Suresh (head of India Equity Research, Macquarie Capital) to work through whether Prime is the asset that finally lets Amazon do in quick commerce what it couldn’t do in e-commerce, payments, or groceries—or whether the category has already moved past where Amazon thinks it is. They discuss stuff like: The shift from Manish Tiwary’s tenure to Samir Kumar’s “Prime as the path to profitability” mandate, and what it reveals about how Amazon Now is being built internally The supply-side convergence math—five players targeting roughly 1,000–1,200 dark stores each within six months, sitting on the same points on the map—and what happens to unit economics when everyone arrives at the same density at the same time The single metric Aditya is watching at Blinkit to know whether Amazon’s pressure is actually working. Predictions for 2030, which are split into three different ways across the table. References: Inside Samir Kumar’s plan to bring order to Amazon India’s chaos

    1h 10m
  8. Amazon’s quick-commerce wildcard is Prime

    28 mag • Solo The Ken Premium

    Amazon’s quick-commerce wildcard is Prime

    There are two ways to tell the quick commerce story in India. The first, and the more conventional way this narrative exists is that quick-commerce is a three-way race between Blinkit, which has pulled ahead with 2,200 dark stores and a roughly half-market share lead, Zepto, which has packed 21 stores per city in a metro saturation play, and Instamart, which sits squeezed in the middle. Every metric the category tracks was built around the assumption that this will be contested on the same set of metrics i.e. dark stores, per-store profitability, density, contribution margin, AOV, etc. But there’s a second narrative that’s unfolding. Amazon has walked into quick-commerce, with its latest offering–Amazon Now. And unlike everyone, it has a singular weapon that none of the others has. On the Q1 2026 earnings call, Andy Jassy spoke less about dark stores, delivery times, or city counts. Instead, he specifically cited one number—Prime members tripling their shopping frequency once they start using Amazon Now, with orders growing 25% month over month. Essentially, Amazon is fighting the quick-commerce battle with a different set of numbers, which measures something different from what the rest of the category measures. Amazon owns something that the others don’t, i.e., the consumers themselves, who are locked into it through a subscription product, Prime. This unlocks possibilities for a new kind of flywheel to emerge. In this episode, Praveen sits down with Vishal Gahlaut (chief business officer, Hopscotch; ex-Myntra) and Aditya Suresh (head of India Equity Research, Macquarie Capital) to work through whether Prime is the asset that finally lets Amazon do in quick commerce what it couldn’t do in e-commerce, payments, or groceries—or whether the category has already moved past where Amazon thinks it is. They discuss stuff like: The shift from Manish Tiwary’s tenure to Samir Kumar’s “Prime as the path to profitability” mandate, and what it reveals about how Amazon Now is being built internally The supply-side convergence math—five players targeting roughly 1,000–1,200 dark stores each within six months, sitting on the same points on the map—and what happens to unit economics when everyone arrives at the same density at the same time The single metric Aditya is watching at Blinkit to know whether Amazon's pressure is actually working. Predictions for 2030, which are split into three different ways across the table. References: Inside Samir Kumar’s plan to bring order to Amazon India’s chaos ( https://the-ken.com/story/inside-samir-kumars-plan-to-bring-order-to-amazon-indias-chaos/ )

    1h 10m

Podcast con vantaggi per gli abbonati

THE KEN PREMIUM

Listen to full episodes 1-4 weeks before others

2,99 €/mese

Descrizione

The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

Altro da The Ken

Potrebbero piacerti anche…