Excess Returns

Excess Returns
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Excess Returns is dedicated to making you a better long-term investor and making complex investing topics understandable. Join Jack Forehand, Justin Carbonneau and Matt Zeigler as they sit down with some of the most interesting names in finance to discuss topics like macroeconomics, value investing, factor investing, and more. Subscribe to learn along with us.

  1. 12 hr ago

    David Rosenberg on Why He Wants the Bonds Everyone Hates — and Where He's Hiding in Stocks

    David Rosenberg returns to Excess Returns to explain his bullish case for Treasury bonds, why he expects inflation and economic growth to slow, and the risks he sees in an AI-driven stock market. The Rosenberg Research founder joins Matt Zeigler to discuss consumer spending, Federal Reserve policy, gold, international stocks, and how he translates his economic outlook into a diversified portfolio. Recorded September 16, 2026, before the Federal Reserve's policy announcement. David Rosenberg on Twitter https://twitter.com/EconguyRosie Rosenberg Research https://www.rosenbergresearch.com/ Topics covered: Why Rosenberg believes markets have priced in too much Fed tightening and Treasury bonds offer an opportunity Why he views higher oil prices as a tax on consumers rather than evidence of sustained, broad-based inflation How slowing wage growth, falling savings, and the stock market wealth effect shape consumer spending How Treasury issuance changes and potential post-election fiscal gridlock could support bonds Why AI exposure extends beyond technology stocks into utilities, industrials, and other sectors Where he sees opportunities in healthcare, consumer staples, pipelines, European stocks, and Asia His model portfolio's allocation to equities, bonds, cash, and commodities How gold, central bank buying, and a bearish dollar outlook fit his investment thesis Why he is positioning for slower growth without making recession his base case What working with portfolio managers taught him about cutting losses and separating conviction from stubbornness Timestamps: 00:00 Rosenberg's portfolio approach and the Treasury opportunity 05:58 Why an oil shock can weaken consumer spending 10:52 Jobs, wages, and the stock market wealth effect 17:35 Fiscal stimulus, Treasury issuance, and the bond outlook 22:53 AI concentration risk beyond technology stocks 27:10 Why he owns European and Asian equities 31:16 Inside his 50% stocks, 30% bonds model portfolio 36:43 Betting against the inflation consensus 42:41 Gold, central bank reserves, and a weaker dollar 48:56 Recession watch and bear market risks for 2027 53:10 AI correlations and the risks of being fully invested 58:27 Cutting losses and knowing when conviction becomes stubbornness Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network: https://excessreturns.co No information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

  2. 2 days ago

    Franklin Templeton CEO Jenny Johnson on AI, Private Markets, and the Hidden Risks in Index Funds

    Franklin Templeton CEO Jenny Johnson joins Matt Zeigler to explore how AI, blockchain tokenization, and private markets are reshaping investing and asset management. They discuss what these changes mean for individual investors, from personalized portfolios and access to private companies to the concentration risks hiding in passive index funds. Jenny also shares lessons from her journey from intern to CEO, why financial advisors still matter, and why starting early remains her most important investing lesson. Franklin Templeton https://www.franklintempleton.com Topics covered: Why AI could create new industries and why learning to use it matters for young professionals How Franklin Templeton uses AI agents and why investment decisions still require human judgment Building personalized portfolios around retirement, college savings, and other financial goals How blockchain, smart contracts, and instant settlement could reduce financial transaction costs Tokenized money market funds, digital wallets, and the obstacles to bringing ETFs on-chain Why companies stay private longer and what investors miss when they only own public stocks Private credit, illiquidity, and the trade-offs involved in expanding access to private markets How mega IPOs, AI spending, and changing index composition can increase portfolio concentration Balancing shareholders, employees, and clients while investing in a company's long-term future The value of financial advisors, staying invested, and giving compounding time to work Timestamps: 00:00 Jenny Johnson's leadership lessons and path from intern to CEO 06:41 AI job disruption and lessons from earlier technology revolutions 10:42 How young analysts use AI and where personalized investing is heading 15:44 Human judgment, AI agents, and the future of asset management 20:17 How tokenization could lower costs and expand financial access 24:39 Why blockchain adoption is slow and how tokenized ETFs work 29:58 Private company growth, investor access, and liquidity trade-offs 35:20 Mega IPOs, index concentration, and the risks of AI spending 41:23 Franklin Templeton's family legacy and investing for the next generation 46:18 Why financial advisors matter and why investors should start early 51:32 Jenny's hands-on experiments with AI tools Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network: https://excessreturns.co No information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

  3. 4 days ago

    Jim Paulsen on the Weakening Economy, Tech Bear Market Risk and the Bull Market Built on Fear

    Jim Paulsen joins Jack Forehand and Matt Zeigler on the latest Jim Paulsen Show to explore why booming AI earnings may be masking a weakening U.S. economy, and what that means for stocks, bonds, and Federal Reserve policy. Using 27 charts, he examines stalled job creation, rising oil prices, growing reliance on debt to finance AI investment, and why he expects a sharper correction in technology than in the broader S&P 500. ⁠Subscribe to the Jim Paulsen Show on Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the Jim Paulsen Show on Apple Podcasts Topics covered: Why strong S&P 500 earnings hide a widening divide between technology, energy, and the remaining seven sectors. Why low unemployment claims may offer false comfort when job creation has stalled. Jim's job market misery index and what it suggests about the case for Fed easing. How business investment and employment have broken their historical relationship. Why weak real disposable income, low savings, and higher oil prices threaten consumer spending. How fading economic momentum could push Treasury yields lower despite renewed inflation fears. Why a shrinking wall of worry could remove an important source of support for stocks. What growth stock leadership, household purchasing power, and ISM services data reveal about market risk. How debt-funded AI spending and widening credit spreads change the risks facing technology companies. Why extreme stock outperformance versus bonds could matter for portfolio allocation. The difference between rising profits per worker and sustainable economic productivity. Why Jim expects a tech bear market but a more moderate correction in the broader S&P 500. Timestamps: 00:00 Why oil, rates, and tight policy worry Jim05:43 The three-way split hiding beneath strong earnings09:58 Why low jobless claims may be misleading16:18 When business investment stops creating jobs20:48 Can consumer spending outrun real income?26:01 How the wall of worry has supported stocks31:44 Investor complacency and a shift toward growth fears36:58 The disconnect between Main Street and Wall Street41:35 AI debt financing, credit spreads, and the case for bonds47:25 Investment per worker and the yield curve's earnings warning51:52 Profit productivity versus real economic productivity58:08 Why Jim expects a tech bear market and a broader correction Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network: https://excessreturns.co No information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

  4. 6 days ago

    We Asked Fidelity's Ex-President What Made Peter Lynch Great — and Where Private Credit Risk Hides

    Former Fidelity president and MFS chairman Bob Pozen joins Excess Returns to discuss retirement investing, the risks in private credit, and why he favors a 90% stock and 10% cash portfolio for investors who can cover their living expenses without selling stocks. Drawing on decades in asset management, he shares lessons from Peter Lynch and Warren Buffett, explains why index funds are difficult to beat, and challenges conventional thinking about bonds, Social Security, and corporate earnings reporting. Bob Pozen's website https://www.bobpozen.com Follow Bob Pozen on Twitter https://x.com/Pozen Research discussed: Consequences of Mandatory Quarterly Reporting: The U.K. Experience https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2817120 Rating Without Market Discipline https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6859158 Giving Life to Private (Rated) Credit https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6857958 Topics covered: What investors misunderstand about Peter Lynch and how fund liquidity shaped his approach versus Warren Buffett's. Lessons from leading Fidelity and rebuilding investor trust at MFS after its trading scandal. Why fees, fund size, and market efficiency make large-cap index funds difficult to beat. Private equity in 401(k) plans, liquidity constraints, and the problem with instant valuation markups. How private credit ratings and affiliated investments can obscure risks on insurance company balance sheets. Pozen's proposals for Social Security reform and the consequences of postponing difficult decisions. How automatic IRA enrollment could expand retirement savings access for workers without employer plans. Why Pozen favors a 90/10 portfolio for certain investors and how spending needs and inheritance goals affect allocation. Why quarterly financial reporting and quarterly earnings guidance deserve different treatment. The behavioral cost of chasing rallies and selling downturns, plus Pozen's work on AI and personal productivity. Timestamps: 00:00 Peter Lynch, Warren Buffett, and staying the course 05:27 Leading Fidelity and keeping stock funds invested 11:03 Rebuilding trust at MFS after the trading scandal 16:01 Why active managers struggle to beat index funds 20:03 Private equity in 401(k)s and valuation concerns 24:45 Private credit ratings and insurance company risks 29:33 Regulatory gaps and affiliated insurance investments 35:51 Social Security reform and the cost of waiting 40:00 Automatic IRAs for workers without retirement plans 44:09 The case for 90% stocks and 10% cash 50:05 Why quarterly financial reporting matters 55:00 The problem with precise quarterly earnings guidance 59:00 Avoiding emotional market timing and AI productivity tools Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network: https://excessreturns.co No information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

  5. 10 Sept

    Everyone Hates Bonds. Why Two Bond Managers Say You're Hating the Wrong Ones

    John Kerschner and Michael Contopoulos of Janus Henderson join Matt Zeigler to explain why persistent inflation and higher interest rates call for a different approach to bond investing. They explore short-duration bonds, AAA CLOs, mortgage-backed securities and how investors can rethink the fixed income allocation in a 60/40 portfolio. The conversation covers why traditional bond benchmarks may deliver too much interest rate risk for their yield, how ETFs expand access to securitized credit, and why the AI buildout could add to inflation rather than solve it. High-Conviction Views: The time for short-duration bonds https://www.janushenderson.com/en-us/advisor/article/high-conviction-views-the-time-for-short-duration-bonds/ Janus Henderson Investors https://www.janushenderson.com/en-us/advisor/ Topics covered: Why deglobalization, fiscal spending and labor constraints could keep inflation and interest rates elevated How the Bloomberg US Aggregate Bond Index concentrates interest rate risk and leaves out large parts of the bond market How AAA CLOs work, why their coupons float, and why they are different from cash Why tight corporate credit spreads may offer insufficient compensation for the risks investors take The three jobs of fixed income: safety, income and insurance How duration determines whether rising rates can wipe out a bond portfolio's income Why bond ETF discounts can reflect price discovery when underlying bonds are not trading How Treasury borrowing and AI hyperscaler debt issuance affect bond supply and relative value Why AI capital spending, electricity demand, labor shortages and wealth effects can create inflation How to rebuild the bond allocation around securitized credit, agency mortgages and the risks in your equity portfolio Timestamps: 00:00 Rethinking bonds after years of disappointing returns 04:28 Why the forces behind the bond bull market have changed 10:09 The hidden interest rate risk in the Aggregate Bond Index 14:53 AAA CLO ETFs: Floating income, structure and drawdown risk 20:44 Treasury fiscal risk and tight corporate credit spreads 26:16 Moving beyond set-and-forget bond funds 30:45 How duration can overwhelm your bond yield 36:27 Bond ETF liquidity and price discovery during stress 41:11 Treasury borrowing, AI debt and securitized bond supply 46:00 How hyperscaler borrowing can create credit market dislocations 50:29 Four reasons AI could increase inflation 55:56 Rebuilding the 40% bond allocation in a 60/40 portfolio 01:02:00 Municipal bonds, recession protection and balancing equity risk Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network: https://excessreturns.co No information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

  6. 8 Sept

    All-In on the S&P 500 Worked for 18 Years | Jared Dillian on Why It's Still Wrong

    Jared Dillian joins Matt Zeigler to discuss The Awesome Portfolio, his approach to asset allocation built around 20% each in stocks, bonds, gold, cash, and real estate. They explore how diversification, annual rebalancing, and managing volatility can help investors reduce financial stress and build a portfolio they can stick with through bear markets. Jared explains his "life hedge" concept, challenges conventional wisdom about stock market drawdowns, and shares how losing half his net worth during the financial crisis shaped his investing philosophy. Buy The Awesome Portfolio Book https://amzn.to/3Tf3of7 Topics covered: Why Jared questions putting your entire life savings in the S&P 500 How the Awesome Portfolio differs from Harry Browne's Permanent Portfolio Including home equity when measuring your overall asset allocation Why volatility and frequent portfolio checking can lead to costly decisions The life hedge: protecting against your job and investments declining together Why Jared disagrees with Charlie Munger about tolerating large drawdowns Index concentration, changing correlations, and the limits of diversification The portfolio's historical backtests, including its losses in 2008 and 2022 Annual rebalancing, cash reserves, inflation protection, and cryptocurrency Managing FOMO and taking practical steps toward a less stressful retirement portfolio Timestamps: 00:00 Jared Dillian's case against an all-stock portfolio 06:33 The five equal allocations in the Awesome Portfolio 11:07 Why "never sell" can become a behavioral trap 15:26 The life hedge: when your paycheck and portfolio fall together 20:38 Risk-adjusted returns and S&P 500 concentration 24:49 Why rising interest rates hurt diversification in 2022 28:51 Backtested losses in 2008 and 2022 34:26 Combining home equity, retirement accounts, and savings 38:58 Cryptocurrency, portfolio distractions, and FOMO 44:31 The Death of Equities and lessons from past crashes 48:44 How diversification could have changed Jared's financial crisis 53:41 First steps toward reducing portfolio risk before retirement Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network: https://excessreturns.co No information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

  7. 6 Sept

    Nvidia Is Betting on Its Customers. Gen Z Is Betting on Sports. Will It All End the Same Way?

    Cameron Dawson and Dave Nadig join Matt Zeigler on Click Beta to explore how sports betting, leveraged ETFs and speculative behavior are blurring the line between gambling and investing. They also examine AI circular financing, hyperscaler cash flow and corporate disclosure, asking what investors might be missing beneath headline earnings. The conversation closes with baseball, music fandom and the challenge of learning from imperfect role models. Subscribe to Click Beta on Spotify⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Subscribe to Click Beta on Apple Podcasts Topics covered: Why sports betting is becoming a financial planning issue for Gen Z and wealthy families How overconfidence and confusion between skill and luck encourage speculative behavior Why rapid market recoveries may reinforce risk-taking instead of teaching caution How recurring gambling losses can quietly undermine savings and wealth accumulation The risks of placing gambling products alongside investments in brokerage apps Leveraged ETF innovation, hourly resets and competing approaches to investor protection AI circular financing, payment terms, leases and opaque special purpose vehicles How one-time investment gains can distort headline earnings and future growth comparisons Why less frequent corporate reporting could favor investors with greater resources Baseball, emo music, Nirvana merchandise and what makes a meaningful role model Timestamps: 00:00 Sports betting, ETFs and the gambling economy05:24 Financial planning after crypto and gambling wins10:57 Why slow gambling losses can be harder to recognize16:55 Betting inside brokerage apps and regulatory backlash21:03 Gambling budgets and the next wave of leveraged ETFs25:04 AI financial shenanigans and hyperscaler cash flow29:25 Who benefits from less corporate disclosure?34:24 Discovering new passions in adulthood: Westerns and baseball38:30 Hot Topic, Nirvana sweatpants and cultural gatekeeping43:17 Can band merchandise introduce a new generation to music?47:26 Keith Morris and the search for meaningful role models51:34 Learning from imperfect people without idolizing them Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network: https://excessreturns.co No information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

  8. 3 Sept

    Bearish Into November. Room to Run After: Why Dan Niles Is Watching Hyperscaler Credit Default Swaps

    Dan Niles joins Excess Returns to explain why he believes AI is a genuine industrial revolution and a bubble at the same time, with significant opportunity still ahead but growing risks in semiconductors, software, AI CapEx and credit markets. We discuss NVIDIA, OpenAI, Anthropic, China’s semiconductor push, data center politics, AI debt issuance, Fed policy and the downside protection framework Dan uses to navigate technology cycles. Dan Niles on X https://x.com/DanielTNiles Niles Investment Management https://www.nilesinvestmentmanagement.com Topics covered: Why AI can be both a transformational technology and an investment bubble The AI metrics Dan watches: token pricing, token growth, cloud revenue and operating margins What the Situational Awareness unwind showed about leverage, forced selling and semiconductor volatility Why hyperscaler AI revenue can accelerate even as free cash flow deteriorates How data center opposition, electricity constraints and politics could slow the AI buildout Where value may accrue across the AI stack and why Anthropic and Google could pressure OpenAI Why China’s memory chip expansion could bring semiconductor cyclicality back faster than investors expect How AI is reshaping software, including security, systems of record, gaming and usage-based pricing Why the shift from free cash flow to debt financing matters for AI CapEx, Treasury yields and credit markets Dan’s long-short investment process, Fed outlook, market risk framework and emphasis on downside protection Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:00 The signals Dan watches to know when the AI bubble is peaking 09:12 AI ROI, hyperscaler profits and the problem with negative free cash flow 14:19 Why data center politics could become a major risk to AI growth 21:28 Why semiconductors are still cyclical and China could change the supply picture 25:47 Why smart companies still get bubbles wrong and agentic AI could extend the cycle 30:43 Is software the next major casualty of AI disruption? 35:04 Why video games may be one of software’s safer AI categories 39:23 Can markets absorb the surge in AI debt and equity issuance? 45:28 Dan Niles’ long-short investment process and approach to downside protection 50:45 Why Dan thinks the Fed could raise rates in September 56:38 Why buy-and-hold can fail and downside protection matters Learn more about the Excess Returns podcast network: https://excessreturns.co No information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

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Excess Returns is dedicated to making you a better long-term investor and making complex investing topics understandable. Join Jack Forehand, Justin Carbonneau and Matt Zeigler as they sit down with some of the most interesting names in finance to discuss topics like macroeconomics, value investing, factor investing, and more. Subscribe to learn along with us.

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  • Creator
    Excess Returns
  • Years Active
    2019 - 2026
  • Episodes
    563
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 905628
  • Show Website
    Excess Returns

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