Fallthrough [Extended]

Fallthrough Media

A deep and nuanced conversational podcast focused on technology, software, and computing.

14,99 US$/month

  1. The Vibes-Based Legal System

    4 HR AGO • SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

    The Vibes-Based Legal System

    This week Steve's back to tackle the big question: is AI-generated output copyrightable? The conversation includes discussions of the Copyright Act of 1976, the philosophy of why copyright exists at all, whether LLM training is learning, and why owning a style would destroy culture. As always, we've got supporter content! This week that includes the Coca-Cola DEA deal and why trade secrets beat patents, what happens when copyright expires on open source code, turning software into giant prime numbers, the JSON "for good and not evil" licensing saga, and a deep dive into why open source licensing is an honor code system that's quietly falling apart. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ( https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ) where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of Break continues the conversation. Kris, Matt, and Steve pick up the copyright thread and ask whether it even matters to working developers, draw parallels to the U.S. tax system, and debate whether the frantic pace of AI standards is chaos or just what innovation looks like. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/27 ( https://break.show/27 ). Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: * Prologue (00:00:00) * Chapter 1: Snow, Ice, and Frozen Pipes (00:01:26) * Chapter 2: Is AI Output Copyrightable? (00:04:24) * Chapter 3: Training vs Output: Two Separate Questions (00:07:28) * Chapter 4: The 1976 Copyright Act and Software (00:11:12) * Chapter 5: Copyright Duration and Trade Secrets [Extended] (00:15:57) * Chapter 6: Open Source and the Expiration Problem [Extended] (00:18:35) * Chapter 7: Copyleft vs Permissive in the LLM Era (00:22:00) * Chapter 8: Copyright as a Weapon, Not a Shield (00:27:10) * Chapter 9: LLM Training Is Just Learning (00:29:24) * Chapter 10: Owning a Style Would Destroy Culture (00:33:17) * Chapter 11: The Real Problem Is Bigger Than Copyright (00:39:00) * Chapter 12: AI Acceptance and What Is Thinking? (00:43:01) * Chapter 13: Our Definition of Thinking Is Just Vibes (00:48:18) * Chapter 14: The Open Source Licensing Crisis [Extended] (00:53:51) * Chapter 15: Copyright Was Made Up [Extended] (00:57:09) * Chapter 16: Software as Numbers [Extended] (01:00:05) * Chapter 17: The Open Source Licensing Crisis [Extended] (01:03:32) * Chapter 18: The Whole System Is Vibes (01:15:15) * Epilogue (01:16:29) Host: Kris Brandow Co-Host: Matthew Sanabria Guest Co-Host: Steve Klabnik Beats: Breakmaster Cylinder Fallthrough is produced by Kris Brandow. Socials: * Website ( https://fallthrough.fm/ ) * Bluesky ( https://bsky.app/profile/fallthrough.fm ) * Threads ( https://www.threads.net/@fallthroughfm ) * X/Twitter ( https://x.com/fallthroughfm ) * LinkedIn ( https://linkedin.com/company/fallthrough ) * Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/fallthroughfm/ )

    1h 17m
  2. The AI Factory Floor

    31 JAN • SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

    The AI Factory Floor

    This week we're talking about Gastown! Dylan and Steve join Kris to break down the viral project that spins up hundreds of Claude Code instances to build a software factory. Steve makes the case for why this is an inevitable evolution and the conversation digs into what it actually means to treat software development as a factory floor. The panel traces the cycle from mainframes to PCs to cloud to AI, debates whether data centers are really the environmental villain, and gets into the real economics of AI pricing. As always, we've got supporter content! This week that includes the crypto rug pull scheme targeting open source maintainers, why conEdison is actually good at their job, whether AI subscriptions are just Uber-style subsidization all over again, the gambling psychology of usage-based costs, and Steve's secret project Docket. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ( https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ) where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of Break continues the conversation. Kris and Steve dive deep into semantic versioning, the real cost of "breaking changes" in Go, and a whirlwind history of package managers from CPAN to NPM to Go modules. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/26 ( https://break.show/26 ). Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: * Prologue (00:00:00) * Chapter 1: Welcome Back, Dylan (00:00:46) * Chapter 2: What is Gastown? (00:06:02) * Chapter 3: Where Are the AI Factory Floor Managers? (00:07:53) * Chapter 4: The Industry is Cyclical (00:19:43) * Chapter 5: Rug Pull as a Service [Extended] (00:23:20) * Chapter 6: Data Centers Aren't the Villain (00:28:49) * Chapter 7: Energy, Grids & Con Edison [Extended] (00:35:10) * Chapter 8: The Case for Local AI (00:39:43) * Chapter 9: Mainframes Are Still Holding It Together [Extended] (00:44:36) * Chapter 10: Claude Code Usage & Hitting the Limits (00:49:02) * Chapter 11: API Pricing & the Race to the Bottom [Extended] (00:54:33) * Chapter 12: Is AI Pricing Just Uber All Over Again? [Extended] (00:58:50) * Chapter 13: The Gambling Psychology of API Costs [Extended] (01:04:38) * Chapter 14: The Upgrade Treadmill (01:08:52) * Chapter 15: Beads & AI Dev Tools [Extended] (01:18:02) * Chapter 16: Steve's Secret Project [Extended] (01:21:07) * Chapter 17: Claude Debugging War Stories (01:24:34) * Epilogue (01:29:31) Host: Kris Brandow Co-Host: Dylan Bourque and Steve Klabnik Beats: Breakmaster Cylinder Fallthrough is produced by Kris Brandow. Socials: * Website ( https://fallthrough.fm/ ) * Bluesky ( https://bsky.app/profile/fallthrough.fm ) * Threads ( https://www.threads.net/@fallthroughfm ) * X/Twitter ( https://x.com/fallthroughfm ) * LinkedIn ( https://linkedin.com/company/fallthrough ) * Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/fallthroughfm/ )

    1h 31m
  3. Systems Thinking for Humans

    23 JAN • SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

    Systems Thinking for Humans

    Annie and Michael Hedgpeth, founders of People Work, join Kris and Matt to unpack the junior hiring crisis and what's really broken about how we grow engineers. Annie's viral blog post sparked debate about whether senior engineers have abandoned their responsibility to mentor and whether our obsession with career ladders created the problem. The conversation moves from systemic dysfunction to solutions: People Work, their local-first app that helps engineers manage professional relationships with a systems thinking approach. As always, we've got supporter content! This week that includes Kris's unconventional career path, a rant about why we have too many engineering titles, deep dives into relational intelligence and privacy concerns around workplace surveillance, and the technical architecture behind People Work: Swift frontend, Rust backend, and a custom DSL inspired by HCL. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ( https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ) where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of Break continues the conversation. Annie and Michael stick around as the panel digs into why early career engineers rush to prove themselves, the trap of becoming "the glue person" instead of building technical depth, and why your strength as a junior is that you don't know anything yet. The panel also discusses some spicy topics like why software engineers spew logical fallacies, and the future of computing as hardware gains slow down. They round out the episode with some Unpopular Opinions. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/25 ( https://break.show/25 ). Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: * Prologue (00:00:00) * Chapter 1: Meet Annie & Michael Hedgpeth (00:00:49) * Chapter 2: The Junior Hiring Crisis (00:01:15) * Chapter 3: AI as an Amplifier (00:10:37) * Chapter 4: The Broken Apprenticeship Model (00:12:05) * Chapter 5: Scaling Yourself Through Others (00:20:00) * Chapter 6: Kris Never Had a Mentor [Extended] (00:24:55) * Chapter 7: Too Many Titles [Extended] (00:29:35) * Chapter 8: Networking That Actually Works (00:34:59) * Chapter 9: What is People Work? (00:39:48) * Chapter 10: Relational Intelligence [Extended] (00:49:33) * Chapter 11: The Onboarding Use Case (00:54:48) * Chapter 12: Why Engineers? [Extended] (00:59:55) * Chapter 13: Privacy & Safe Spaces [Extended] (01:04:46) * Chapter 14: AI Strategy & On-Device [Extended] (01:09:33) * Chapter 15: Swift + Rust + Crux [Extended] (01:14:55) * Chapter 16: Data Ownership & The DSL (01:24:48) * Epilogue (01:28:46) Host: Matthew Sanabria Co-Host: Kris Brandow Guests: Annie Hedgpeth and Michael Hedgpeth Beats: Breakmaster Cylinder Fallthrough is produced by Kris Brandow. Socials: * Website ( https://fallthrough.fm/ ) * Bluesky ( https://bsky.app/profile/fallthrough.fm ) * Threads ( https://www.threads.net/@fallthroughfm ) * X/Twitter ( https://x.com/fallthroughfm ) * LinkedIn ( https://linkedin.com/company/fallthrough ) * Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/fallthroughfm/ )

    1h 30m
  4. When Reality Drifts

    15 JAN • SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

    When Reality Drifts

    Nick Gerace, Engineering Manager at System Initiative, joins Kris and Matt to explore what infrastructure management looks like beyond Terraform. Nick walks us through how System Initiative differs from traditional IaC, why git isn't really your source of truth, and how the company pivoted to AI-first tooling. The conversation turns to Claude Code and MCP tools before landing on a nuanced discussion about distributed systems, and how the messy, eventual consistency of real life mirrors the systems we build. As always, we've got supporter content! This week that includes deep dives into System Initiative's architecture evolution from Postgres to a custom graph database, Nick's passionate defense of domain-driven design in Rust monorepos ("if I see a util directory, I go a little nuts"), why AI won't replace musicians (or you), and a spicy take on AI, capitalism, and power structures. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ( https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ) where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of Break continues the conversation. Nick sticks around as the hosts compare audio engineering backgrounds, discuss the IC to manager journey, and take a hard turn into hardware—dual 3090 TIs with NVLink, the case for water cooling, Kris's absurd home lab, and everyone's temptation toward Framework Desktops and Mac Studios. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/24 ( https://break.show/24 ). Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: * Prologue (00:00:00) * Chapter 1: Meet Nick Gerace (00:01:21) * Chapter 2: The Power of Networking (00:05:38) * Chapter 3: What is System Initiative? (00:14:42) * Chapter 4: Terraform vs System Initiative (00:19:58) * Chapter 5: Git Isn't Your Source of Truth (00:25:47) * Chapter 6: SI Architecture: From Postgres to Graph [Extended] (00:34:02) * Chapter 7: Rust Monorepos & Domain-Driven Design [Extended] (00:46:44) * Chapter 8: The AI Pivot at System Initiative (00:54:22) * Chapter 9: Claude Code & MCP Tools (01:04:22) * Chapter 10: AI Won't Replace Musicians (or You) [Extended] (01:11:20) * Chapter 11: Distributed Systems Are Just Real Life (01:20:22) * Chapter 12: AI, Capitalism & Power Structures [Extended] (01:25:47) * Chapter 13: Data Centers, Water & Nuance (01:32:07) * Epilogue (01:39:50) Host: Matthew Sanabria Co-Host: Kris Brandow Guest: Nick Gerace Beats: Breakmaster Cylinder Fallthrough is produced by Kris Brandow and Angelica Hill. Socials: * Website ( https://fallthrough.fm/ ) * Bluesky ( https://bsky.app/profile/fallthrough.fm ) * Threads ( https://www.threads.net/@fallthroughfm ) * X/Twitter ( https://x.com/fallthroughfm ) * LinkedIn ( https://linkedin.com/company/fallthrough ) * Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/fallthroughfm/ )

    1h 41m
  5. New Year, New Nuance

    10 JAN • SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

    New Year, New Nuance

    New Year, New Nuance! In this episode, Kris and Matt discuss what they're looking forward to in 2026—Matt shares the exciting news that he's becoming a dad, and the duo explore the value of growth, changing your opinions, and adding more nuance to how you see the world. They talk about what they're excited to build this year, from physical projects like woodworking and doors to the podcast platform they keep talking about. Kris shares how a conversation with Claude finally made electricity click, leading to a broader discussion about LLMs as "digital librarians" and what education should really be about: teaching you how to teach yourself. As always, we've got supporter content! This week that includes deep dives into local AI infrastructure, home networking with 10G and WireGuard, and a spicy rant about why centralized package management is fundamentally broken. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ( https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ) where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of break continues the conversation. Where the two reflect on AI doomerism's mental health toll, why things aren't worse than before, the logistics behind society's real problems, and turning waste into opportunity with BASF's Verbund principle. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/23 ( https://break.show/ep/23 ). Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: * Prologue (00:00:00) * Chapter 1: Matt's Becoming a Dad (00:03:06) * Chapter 2: Growth & Changing Your Opinions (00:06:39) * Chapter 3: Adding More Nuance in 2026 (00:15:44) * Chapter 4: What We're Excited to Build (00:24:57) * Chapter 5: Learning How Things Work: Electricity (00:30:21) * Chapter 6: LLMs as Digital Librarians (00:39:05) * Chapter 7: The Real Purpose of Education (00:51:44) * Chapter 8: Local AI Infrastructure & Home Networking [Extended] (00:58:38) * Chapter 9: The Centralization Problem in Package Management [Extended] (01:23:59) * Epilogue (01:39:31) Host: Kris Brandow Co-Host: Matthew Sanabria Beats: Breakmaster Cylinder Fallthrough is produced by Kris Brandow and Angelica Hill. Socials: * Website ( https://fallthrough.fm/ ) * Bluesky ( https://bsky.app/profile/fallthrough.fm ) * Threads ( https://www.threads.net/@fallthroughfm ) * X/Twitter ( https://x.com/fallthroughfm ) * LinkedIn ( https://linkedin.com/company/fallthrough ) * Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/fallthroughfm/ )

    1h 41m
  6. Stack Trace 2025

    31/12/2025 • SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

    Stack Trace 2025

    We decided to do our own wrap up for the year. We've called it Stack Trace, and we pulled a bunch of stats from the first year of Fallthrough. In this episode, Kris, Matt, and Dylan talk through these stats and how they feel about Fallthrough's first year. If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of break continues the conversation. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/22 ( https://break.show/ep/22 ). In this week's bonus content, we've got some extra stats! Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ( https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ) where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: * Prologue (00:00:00) * Chapter 1: A Year of Fallthrough In Stats (00:03:37) * Chapter 2: Better and Smaller Platforms (00:36:28) * Chapter 3: Who Had The Longest Monologues? (00:41:33) * Chapter 4: It's Different In The Moment (00:49:13) * Chapter 5: The Spicy Content That Wasn't (00:54:16) * Chapter 6: More Stats! [Extended] (01:00:48) * Chapter 7: Thinking About The Future (01:08:12) * Epilogue (01:19:42) Host: Kris Brandow Co-Hosts: Matthew Sanabria and Dylan Bourque Beats: Breakmaster Cylinder Fallthrough is produced by Kris Brandow and Angelica Hill. Socials: * Website ( https://fallthrough.fm/ ) * Bluesky ( https://bsky.app/profile/fallthrough.fm ) * Threads ( https://www.threads.net/@fallthroughfm ) * X/Twitter ( https://x.com/fallthroughfm ) * LinkedIn ( https://linkedin.com/company/fallthrough ) * Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/fallthroughfm/ )

    1h 23m
  7. Worse Is Better

    25/12/2025 • SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

    Worse Is Better

    There's a famous joke essay called Worse Is Better, which compares the New Jersey and the MIT ideologies. In this episode, Kris and Matt discuss these two different ideologies and how they show up in technology, from Go, to dependency management, to electric vehicles. If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of break continues the conversation. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/21 ( https://break.show/ep/21 ). In this week's bonus content, the duo discusses how idealistic thinking has slowed down the adoption of electric vehicles and what a better path forward might have looked like. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ( https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ) where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Show Notes: * Worse Is Better ( https://www.dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html ) * Simple Made Easy ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxdOUGdseq4 ) * Less Is Exponentially More ( https://commandcenter.blogspot.com/2012/06/less-is-exponentially-more.html ) * Go += Package Versioning ( https://research.swtch.com/vgo-intro ) * govulncheck ( https://pkg.go.dev/golang.org/x/vuln/cmd/govulncheck ) * The Bizarre Logic of the F-150 Lightning ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OvA__3Dzk ) Table of Contents: * Prologue (00:00:00) * Chapter 1: Worse Is Better? (00:02:58) * Chapter 2: Go Got Stranded In The Middle (00:10:39) * Chapter 3: SemVer Is Fundamentally Broken (00:33:32) * Chapter 4: We Don't Live In The Ideal World (00:47:19) * Chapter 5: BEVs vs EREVs [Extended] (00:56:26) * Chapter 6: Holistic vs Deep (01:13:06) * Epilogue (01:17:46) Host: Kris Brandow Co-Host: Matthew Sanabria Beats: Breakmaster Cylinder Fallthrough is produced by Kris Brandow and Angelica Hill. Socials: * Website ( https://fallthrough.fm/ ) * Bluesky ( https://bsky.app/profile/fallthrough.fm ) * Threads ( https://www.threads.net/@fallthroughfm ) * X/Twitter ( https://x.com/fallthroughfm ) * LinkedIn ( https://linkedin.com/company/fallthrough ) * Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/fallthroughfm/ )

    1h 19m
  8. Why Is Tech So Mid?

    19/12/2025 • SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

    Why Is Tech So Mid?

    In the tech industry, we talk about how exceptional and innovative we are. But are we really? In this episode, Kris and Matt explore why they see the industry as pretty mid and how things should be better. If you prefer to watch this episode, you can view it on YouTube. This week's episode of break continues the conversation. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show/20 ( https://break.show/ep/20 ). In this week's bonus content, the duo discusses the problems with hype and how it's not just about the tech industry. Not a supporter yet? Fix that today by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ( https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe ) where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today! Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Table of Contents: * Prologue (00:00:00) * Chapter 1: Why Is Tech So Mid? (00:02:27) * Chapter 2: The Innovation Hype [Extended] (00:35:42) * Chapter 3: Everyone Is Always Wrong (00:59:39) * Epilogue (01:17:16) Host: Kris Brandow Co-Host: Matthew Sanabria Beats: Breakmaster Cylinder Fallthrough is produced by Kris Brandow and Angelica Hill. Socials: * Website ( https://fallthrough.fm/ ) * Bluesky ( https://bsky.app/profile/fallthrough.fm ) * Threads ( https://www.threads.net/@fallthroughfm ) * X/Twitter ( https://x.com/fallthroughfm ) * LinkedIn ( https://linkedin.com/company/fallthrough ) * Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/fallthroughfm/ )

    1h 21m
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A deep and nuanced conversational podcast focused on technology, software, and computing.

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