Change Signal

Michael Bungay Stanier
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  • EVERY TWO WEEKS

If you’re leading change in organizations, this will be your favourite podcast. Change is harder than ever. Transformation is more complex, unpredictable and overwhelming than it’s ever been. Change Signal cuts through the noise to find the good stuff that works. Michael Bungay Stanier, author of The Coaching Habit and organizational transformation student for thirty years, talks to the best thinkers, senior leaders, and experienced practitioners in the world of change, to find what works, what doesn’t, and what to try instead. With Change Signal as your guide, you’ll be more efficient and less overwhelmed, and your change projects will more likely succeed. Change Signal: Where we cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.  Sign up for weekly updates at TheChangeSignal.com

  1. 16 HR AGO

    Kübler-Ross was Wrong! Jacqueline Kappers

    Here are three questions sparked by this Change Signal conversation with Jacqueline Kappers:  What loss are you ignoring in your latest transformation?  Where might you be grief-shaming your people?  What would change look like if you treated it as individual, not linear? If you lead change projects inside a large organization, you already know that most transformation efforts struggle not because the strategy is wrong, but because the human response is misunderstood. In this episode, Jacqueline Kappers challenges the reflex use of the Kübler-Ross grief curve in change management. It was never designed for organizational transformation, and when we force people through tidy stages, we risk doing change to them rather than with them. Her central idea is simple and uncomfortable: every change begins with loss. Promotion, restructuring, system rollout — it doesn’t matter — something ends before something new begins. She also introduces the idea of a “grief fingerprint” and a “change fingerprint.” People don’t move through change in neat phases; they oscillate between past and future, certainty and ambiguity. For senior leaders in change leadership, transformation, and organizational development, this conversation offers a more human, practical way to build change capacity and unlock performance — without pretending that loss isn’t part of the deal. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

    21 min
  2. AI Won’t Fix Your Change Problem. Andrew Kilshaw

    2 DAYS AGO

    AI Won’t Fix Your Change Problem. Andrew Kilshaw

    As I reflect on this conversation with Andrew Kilshaw, three questions stand out: Who are you really trying to move?  What recipe are you missing? Is AI saving you — or just augmenting you? Andrew Kilshaw has led transformation inside organizations like Nike, Sanofi, BlackRock, and Shell, and now works at the intersection of change and AI. He brings both experience and perspective —  someone who’s seen what actually works when theory meets reality. If you lead change in a large organization, you already know this: not everyone is coming with you. Andrew Kilshaw offers a practical way to work with that reality, breaking the organization into thirds and making the case that your job isn’t to win everyone over, but to build a coalition that creates momentum. We also push on a deeper assumption about transformation. Most organizations don’t lack capability — they lack coherence. The ingredients are already there: leadership, data, people, and intent. The challenge is connecting them into something that actually works. And then there’s AI. Not as a silver bullet, but as a layer that amplifies what’s already happening — better decisions, better insight, better coordination. Used well, it creates capacity and clarity. Used poorly, it just adds more noise. This is a conversation about focus, judgment, and where to put your energy when everything is already in motion. Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

    36 min
  3. Let’s Netflix and Change: Jessica Neal

    8 APR

    Let’s Netflix and Change: Jessica Neal

    Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Jessica Neal:  Are you modeling the change you’re asking for?  What nostalgia is quietly slowing your organization down?  And are you chasing consensus when you should be making decisions? If you lead change in a large organization, you already know the challenge isn’t just strategy. It’s people, pace, and the gravitational pull of the status quo. In this conversation, Jessica Neal — former Chief Talent Officer at Netflix — shares what it actually takes to shift culture and move transformation forward inside a scaling company. One of her core insights is simple and uncomfortable: if leaders aren’t visibly living the change, it won’t happen. We also explore why experimentation beats grand transformation plans. At Netflix, change often looked less like a rollout and more like a tiny experiment: try something, see what happens, learn, adjust. And then there’s the tension between speed and process. As organizations grow, well-meaning leaders add rules to control risk, but those rules often slow the very people capable of making good decisions. If you’re responsible for transformation, culture, or change leadership, this conversation offers a practical lens on how organizations actually evolve — and why the hardest work often starts with leaders themselves. Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

    33 min
  4. Stop Writing Boring Change Messaging: Donald Miller

    1 APR

    Stop Writing Boring Change Messaging: Donald Miller

    Here are three questions to sharpen your thinking from this Change Signal conversation with Donald Miller:  What story are your people living inside?  Are you the hero of the change — or the guide?  Can your strategy fit on a napkin? If you lead transformation inside a large organization, you already know this: change management fails less because of bad strategy and more because of bad framing. Donald argues that every human being sees themselves as the hero in a story — and if you want to shift behavior, energy, and buy-in, you must change the plot points of that story. We explore why leaders must resist the urge to play the hero and instead become the empathetic guide — the one who names the “hole,” listens deeply, and throws the rope. It’s a practical conversation about empathy, involvement, and why treating adults like children creates resistance that’s hard to undo. And then we get concrete. Donald shares his PEACE framework — Problem, Empathy, Answer, Change, End result — and makes the case that memorable soundbites, repeated relentlessly, often beat beautifully crafted strategy documents. If you care about change leadership, transformation, and making your message stick, this one’s for you. Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

    37 min
  5. Where Should You Intervene? Dr. Leyla Acaroglu

    25 MAR

    Where Should You Intervene? Dr. Leyla Acaroglu

    Here are three questions to sharpen your thinking from this Change Signal conversation with Dr. Leyla Acaroglu  What are you editing out of your understanding of the problem? Where are you treating a living system like a tidy plan?  And what intervention would actually shift the dynamics? Dr. Leyla Acaroglu is a sustainability strategist, systems thinker, and founder of Disrupt Design. Her work sits at the intersection of design, behaviour, and complex systems, helping leaders move beyond surface-level fixes to understand how change actually happens in messy, real-world environments. If you lead change in a large organization, you already know the official story: change is messy, political, and rarely linear. What Leyla brings is a practical way to work with that reality, instead of fighting it. We talk about why most change approaches fail when they treat complexity like a puzzle to solve rather than an ecosystem to understand. Leyla shares how systems mapping helps you see what’s really going on beneath the surface — values, power, worldview, and the invisible connections shaping behaviour. She walks through a simple “capture the chaos” method (pen, paper, no self-censorship) that surfaces leverage points for intervention. And we explore what it means to lead change as a dynamic response: iterating, adjusting, and staying in the flow as the system shifts. If you’re searching for smarter approaches to change management, transformation, and change leadership, this is a grounded, useful conversation. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

    28 min
  6. Does Caring Less Help You Lead Better? Michael Bungay Stanier

    18 MAR

    Does Caring Less Help You Lead Better? Michael Bungay Stanier

    Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Michael Bungay Stanier:  What if your success has nothing to do with the outcome?  What if you’ve already won before the project is finished?  And what if caring less is what makes you more effective? If you lead change inside a large organization, you already know this tension: you’re accountable for results, but you don’t control everything that shapes them. In this solo episode, Michael Bungay Stanier explores the paradox at the heart of change leadership — how to care deeply about the work while loosening your grip on the outcome. He introduces a practical spectrum for how leaders relate to outcomes, from disengaged to overly attached, and points to a more useful stance: being fully committed to how you show up, while accepting that results are shaped by forces beyond you. It’s not detachment; it’s discipline. Michael also offers three drivers for navigating this tension: staying ambitious for meaningful work, embracing your “cosmic irrelevance,” and returning, again and again, to the everyday practice of doing the work. If you’re leading transformation, this is about building the internal capacity to stay steady, focused, and human when the stakes are high. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

    18 min
  7. How to Find the Next Wise Move: David Lancefield

    13 MAR

    How to Find the Next Wise Move: David Lancefield

    Here are three big questions that David Lancefield asks in the quest for modern change mastery: Where are you stuck in one system? What linkage are you overlooking between systems? And what’s your next wise move? David Lancefield, strategist and leadership advisor, argues that all leaders are systems leaders — whether they admit it or not. Real change doesn’t live in a plan or a single silo; it emerges in the messy spaces where systems overlap. He explores five interconnected systems — inner, relational, organizational, technological, and societal — and shows how to navigate them without freezing, overreaching, or waiting for perfect clarity. You’ll learn how to see the patterns that hold your organization in place, and how small, intelligent actions can ripple outward. David also reframes what it means to act with agency: listening for what’s missing, seeing where you’re complicit through silence, and stepping forward even when control is impossible. If you lead transformation in complex environments, this episode offers a grounded, systemic way to see more, link more, and move smarter. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

    21 min
  8. Be A “Discovery-Driven” Change Leader: Rita McGrath

    11 MAR

    Be A “Discovery-Driven” Change Leader: Rita McGrath

    Here are three questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Rita McGrath:  Are you still treating change as an interruption? Do you know whether you’re facing disruption or just noise? And are you leading with certainty when curiosity is what’s required? In this episode, I talk with Rita McGrath about what senior leaders are getting wrong about change — and what actually helps organizations adapt when the ground won’t stop shifting. Drawing on her work at the intersection of strategy, innovation, and leadership, Rita makes the case that change is no longer episodic. It’s the operating environment, and leaders who keep reaching for old playbooks are quietly increasing risk. We unpack a precise and useful definition of disruption — not “big change,” but the moment something once complex becomes easy, and something once expensive becomes affordable. That’s the kind of shift that rewires value chains and demands a different response from change leaders. Rita also explores what she calls discovery-driven leadership: staying deeply engaged without micromanaging, listening for weak signals at the edges, and treating so-called failures as hypotheses that didn’t pan out. If you lead transformation in a large organization, this conversation offers a sharper lens on modern change mastery — practical, grounded, and refreshingly honest. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

    22 min
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About

If you’re leading change in organizations, this will be your favourite podcast. Change is harder than ever. Transformation is more complex, unpredictable and overwhelming than it’s ever been. Change Signal cuts through the noise to find the good stuff that works. Michael Bungay Stanier, author of The Coaching Habit and organizational transformation student for thirty years, talks to the best thinkers, senior leaders, and experienced practitioners in the world of change, to find what works, what doesn’t, and what to try instead. With Change Signal as your guide, you’ll be more efficient and less overwhelmed, and your change projects will more likely succeed. Change Signal: Where we cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.  Sign up for weekly updates at TheChangeSignal.com

Information

  • Creator
    Michael Bungay Stanier
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    72
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2025, The Banging Spaniel Corporation
  • Show Website
    Change Signal

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