Politics with Michelle Grattan

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The Conversation's Chief Political Correspondent Michelle Grattan talks politics with politicians and experts, from Capital Hill.

  1. HACE 21 H

    New Liberal deputy Jane Hume on industrial relations, child care and a decade in politics

    The newly installed Liberal deputy leader talks about the turnaround in her fortunes, the spectre of WorkChoices, and why she doesn't believe in quotas for women. Mentioned in this episode: Your support matters Support non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

    36 min

  2. 10 FEB

    Tony Barry on why a new Liberal leader isn't a quick fix

    What do Australians in focus groups say about the Liberal Party right now? "They just kind of laugh," the former Liberal staffer turned pollster says. Mentioned in this episode: Your support matters Support non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

    26 min

  3. 4 FEB

    Barnaby Joyce on getting on with Pauline Hanson and One Nation's rise

    Joyce says 'I'm not going to be wearing a burqa' like the One Nation leader – but his relationship with her is stronger than his 'bitter' end with the Nationals.

    36 min

  4. 28 ENE

    Jonno Duniam on the 'frenzy' over hate speech laws and the Coalition split

    The Liberal senator says 'social media influencers' have falsely 'whipped up a frenzy' of misinformation about new hate speech laws limiting freedom of speech.

    34 min
  5. The Making of an Autocrat: co-opt the military

    4 ENE

    The Making of an Autocrat: co-opt the military

    In November, six Democratic lawmakers recorded a video directed at members of the US military and intelligence agencies. In it, they issued a blunt reminder: "The laws are clear: you can refuse illegal orders. […] You must refuse illegal orders." The lawmakers were issuing the warning against the backdrop of US airstrikes on boats off the coast of Latin America the Trump administration claims are suspected drug runners. Many Democrats and legal experts, however, argue these strikes are illegal. Since returning to office, Trump has successfully expanded his power over his own party, the courts and the American people. Now, like many autocrats around the world, he’s trying to exert control over the military. In the final episode of The Making of an Autocrat, Joe Wright, a political science professor at Penn State University, says: "I am very concerned that getting the military to do illegal things will not only put US soldiers at more risk when they do engage in international missions in the future […] it’s a first step to using the military to target domestic political opponents. That’s what really worries me." This episode was written by Justin Bergman and produced and edited by Isabella Podwinski and Ashlynne McGhee. Sound design by Michelle Macklem. Mentioned in this episode: Your support matters Support non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

    19 min
  6. The Making of an Autocrat: suppress the people

    4 ENE

    The Making of an Autocrat: suppress the people

    The list of people Donald Trump has punished or threatened to punish since returning to office is long. It includes the likes of James Comey, Letitia James, John Bolton, as well as members of the opposition, such as Adam Schiff, Mark Kelly and Kamala Harris. In fact, he has gone so far as to call Democrats “the enemy from within”, saying they are more dangerous than US adversaries like Russia and China. According to Lucan Way, a professor of democracy at the University of Toronto, when a leader attacks the opposition like this, it’s a clear sign a country is slipping into authoritarianism. As Way says in episode 5 of The Making of an Autocrat: "In other kind of countries with weaker justice systems, you can literally jail members of opposition or bankrupt them. In a country like the United States, where the rule of law is quite robust, this is not possible, you can’t just jail rivals at will." But Trump has other ways of making the cost of opposing him too high for his critics to bear. This includes investigations, lawsuits, audits, personal attacks – anything to distract and silence them. The effect is his opponents become much more reluctant to engage in behaviour they know that Trump won’t like, Way says: "So it really has this kind of broader silencing effect that I think is quite pernicious." This episode was written by Justin Bergman and produced and edited by Isabella Podwinski and Ashlynne McGhee. Sound design by Michelle Macklem. Mentioned in this episode: Your support matters Support non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

    16 min
  7. The Making of an Autocrat: beat the courts

    28/12/2025

    The Making of an Autocrat: beat the courts

    In democratic systems, the courts are a vital check on a leader’s power. They have the ability to overturn laws and, in Donald Trump’s case, the executive orders he has relied on to achieve his goals. Since taking office, Trump has targeted the judiciary with a vengeance. He has attacked what he has called “radical left judges” and is accused of ignoring or evading court orders. The Supreme Court has already handed the Trump administration some key wins in his second term. But several cases now before the court will be pivotal in determining how much power Trump is able to accrue – and what he’ll be able to do with it. As Paul Collins, a Supreme Court expert from the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, explains in episode 4 of The Making of an Autocrat: "It’s all about presidential power. And that’s really significant because it’s going to enable the president to basically inject a level of politics into the federal bureaucracy that we frankly haven’t really seen before in the US." This episode was written by Justin Bergman and produced and edited by Isabella Podwinski and Ashlynne McGhee. Sound design by Michelle Macklem. Mentioned in this episode: Your support matters Support non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

    18 min
  8. The Making of an Autocrat: manufacture a crisis

    28/12/2025

    The Making of an Autocrat: manufacture a crisis

    Donald Trump has sounded the alarm, over and over again, that the United States is facing an “invasion” by dangerous gang members. He blames immigrants for the country’s economic problems and claims protesters are destroying US cities. Trump is not the first would-be autocrat to manufacture a crisis to seize extraordinary powers. As Natasha Lindstaedt, an expert in authoritarian regimes at the University of Essex, says in episode 3 of The Making of an Autocrat, a strongman “loves a crisis”. "A crisis is the way that they mobilise their base, the way that they can depict themselves as the saviour, as this messianic type of figure that is going to save people from this chaotic world." So, is the United States really facing a national emergency? Or is this just a tactic on Trump’s part to amass more power? This episode was written by Justin Bergman and produced and edited by Isabella Podwinski and Ashlynne McGhee. Sound design by Michelle Macklem. Mentioned in this episode: Your support matters Support non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

    15 min
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The Conversation's Chief Political Correspondent Michelle Grattan talks politics with politicians and experts, from Capital Hill.

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