Exercise Science

Exercise Science

Hosts Martin Gibala, PhD & Stuart Phillips, PhD share exercise science expertise, separating hype from hard facts.

Episoder

  1. -11 t

    What to Do Instead of Zone 2 | Mike Joyner, Mayo Clinic

    If you’re a serious recreational athlete but you have a job and a life, and only five hours a week to train — what should you be doing? This week, Stu and Marty provide the answer with the help of one of the world’s foremost experts on aerobic conditioning and the limits of human performance, Dr. Michael Joyner of the Mayo Clinic. Dr. Joyner is a legend of the exercise science field and an elite runner himself, who back in 1991 conducted the first analysis establishing the physiologic possibility of a sub-two-hour marathon. Since our conversation with Joyner happened to fall just days after Sabastian Sawe achieved the first official sub-2:00 marathon times earlier this spring, the conversation begins with a discussion of Joyner’s 1991 analysis. Then Marty and Stu challenge Joyner to get specific about what amateur athletes should be doing, if they want to achieve the best possible aerobic fitness for health. How much vigorous training should we all be doing, relative to moderate- and low-intensity training? Plus a listener question asking how to know when you’re training too much. Have a listener question? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store. SHOW LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. On X you can find us @realexscience.  Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency.  EPISODE LINKS Two runners break fabled two hour marathon barrier. Friend of Exercise Science Alex Hutchinson wrote about it for The Atlantic.  Joyner’s famous 2011 article: The Two Hour Marathon: Who and When? Mike Joyner’s 1991 paper that is a staple in Marty’s Integrative Physiology class: Modeling: optimal marathon performance on the basis of physiological factors. PubMed. Full PDF.  Dr. Michael Joyner’s website — been awhile since he updated it but fascinating nonetheless Andy Jones’ paper referenced by Joyner: The fourth dimension: physiological resilience as an independent determinant of endurance exercise performance - The Journal of Physiology Adaptations to swimming training: influence of training volume - Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise Physiological demands of running at 2-hour marathon race pace - Journal of Applied Physiology A Perspective on High-Intensity Interval Training for Performance and Health - Sports Med The “How They Train” series by Fred Wilt DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Intro 02:44 Welcoming Dr. Michael Joyner 03:45 Joyner reacts to 2:00 04:47 Who is Joyner? 06:18 Marathon predictions 11:13 Joyner prediction reception 13:03 Performance determinants 15:51 Other performance determinants 18:59 Elite characteristics 20:50 How elite is elite 22:03 Joyner on Zone 2 26:55 Joyner’s training haiku 29:30 Optimal intensities 30:40 Long intervals key 32:22 Is 80/20 wasting time? 33:43 Resistance training 35:00 Do SOMETHING 36:51 Zone 2 too low 38:51 Vigorous benefits 40:37 What Joyner does 42:35 More haikus 43:59 Listener question 46:52 Wrap up DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

    48 min

  2. 23. juni

    Muscle Mass & Weight Loss Drugs: Overblown Fears or Justified Concerns?

    Semaglutide, sold as Ozempic and Wegovy, and tirzepatide, sold as Zepbound and Mounjaro, are new weight loss drugs that actually work, helping millions around the world to feel better and become healthier. But some people are fearful of side effects, such as loss of muscle mass. Are their fears warranted?  To find out, Marty and Stu talk to the two University of Kansas weight-loss scientists, Renee Rogers and ACSM president-elect John Jakicic, who are leading a clinical trial investigating the way aerobic and resistance training can affect the muscle mass of people who are on GLP-1s, or the other new weight loss drugs.  In this episode: —how GLP-1s affect muscle mass —the difference between lean and muscle mass —the research that Jakicic and Rogers are doing into GLP-1s —guidance on whether people should be concerned about GLP-1s and muscle mass —how to minimize muscle loss while on GLP-1s  Plus, whether the new weight loss drugs affect men and women differently.  Have a listener question? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe, the longevity intelligence app. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link. You can also download EverMe for free at your favourite app store.  Exercise Science sponsor Precision Nutrition is the #1 most recommended nutrition certification program in the world. And now it specializes in GLP-1 coaching. For a free assessment to learn your GLP-1 type, visit GLPCoaching.com.  LINKS Follow or subscribe at your favourite platform @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience.  Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok too! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content agency.  EPISODE LINKS New York Times: They Hated Exercise. Weight Loss Drugs Changed Everything.  Renee Rogers and John Jakicic’s clinical trial: Muscle and Movement With Anti-Obesity Medications (M3) A paper by John Jakicic and Renee Rogers advocating for a prescription of exercise along with obesity medication: The Role of Exercise in the Contemporary Era of Obesity Management Medications Jakicic led, and Rogers coauthored, the largest NIH investment into how physical activity improves health and prevents disease. Study website. Journal article: Molecular Transducers of Physical Activity Consortium (MoTrPAC): human studies design and protocol Analysis: Preserving muscle mass on GLP-1 weight loss drugs: Big Deal or Nothing to Worry About? By Stuart Phillips DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Cold open 01:29 Muscle mass and GLP-1s 04:19 Introducing Renee and John 06:19 GLP-1 context 07:50 How GLP-1s work 10:50 More than GLP-1s 12:44 Body composition & weight loss 15:00 Lean tissue is not muscle 16:50 Overblown fears 18:55 Muscle moment 20:39 R01 study described 23:15 Early results 26:04 Behavioural influences 28:45 Rediscovering exercise 31:09 Comprehensive care 33:00 Renting weight loss 36:55 Obesity drivers 37:47 Older adults 40:39 Wraparound care 41:30 Muscle health context 43:12 Function measures matter 44:44 Lean v. muscle 46:15 Unloading the body 47:40 GLP-1 sex differences 49:44 How to minimize muscle loss on GLP-1s 53:33 Wrap up DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

    55 min

  3. 16. juni

    VO₂max: The Fifth Vital Sign

    VO₂max is the most important metric of your overall cardiorespiratory fitness. It’s a measure of the maximal ability of your body to take in and use oxygen. But what does the number actually mean for your health and longevity? Why is it important to know your VO₂max? What’s the most effective way to improve your VO₂max, whether you’re an athlete or just someone seeking to improve your health? And what does this all have to do with beer-league hockey, and everybody’s favourite Sudbury Blueberry Bulldog, Shoresy? In this episode, Stuart Phillips asks Martin Gibala to break down VO₂max in plain English: what it is, why it matters, and how it shapes everything from your risk of dying to how fast you can run a 10K. And just to get the kin grad students among us even more excited, this episode namedrops the Hickson Protocol, plus legends of kinesiology like Robert Ross, Ulrik Wisløff and Carsten Lundby. Pitter patter, let’s get at ‘er! Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by EverMe. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store.  LINKS Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience.  Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X!Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content marketing agency.  A Case for Fitness as a Clinical Vital Sign: The academic paper Marty references, that argues that MDs should assess VO₂max during each patient visit.  The Hickson protocol is described here, featuring six sessions per week, including three sessions of continuous vigorous in which the athletes ran as far as they could in 40 minutes, interspersed with three interval training bouts per week. The interval training amounted to six sessions of five-minute-long intervals during which the athletes tried to achieve VO₂max in each interval.  Protocols to test VO₂max by proxy: YMCA fitness test is described in this academic paper. Plus here’s a better description of the 3-min step test.  An impressively accurate non-exercise predictor of VO₂max is based on a survey at worldfitnesslevel.org. VO₂max test footage from McMaster University  Wisløff Hunt Study one high-intensity bout of week v. cardiac risk Wisløff 2001 out of Norwegian University of Science and Technology with elite male junior soccer players, 2x a week for eight weeks boosted VO₂max  by 11%.  Wisløff 2008 with sedentary middle-aged men and women with metabolic syndrome, 3x a week for 16 weeks, improved VO₂max  by 35%, more than twice as much as a control that performed continuous moderate exercise.  Martin Gibala contributed to Wisløff’s 2013 paper, showing most of the benefits from an interval workout come from the first sprint.   DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Cardio v. Strength 02:08 VO₂max explained 06:08 Heart’s role 08:41 Clinical vital sign 10:36 Benefits of boosting VO₂max  12:11 Assessing VO₂max 13:51 Ulrik Wisløff 15:15 Beer league hockey 17:07 VO₂max ranges 20:59 More boosting benefits 24:16 VO₂max trainability 27:00 Highest recorded values 29:30 How to improve VO₂max  31:27 Hickson protocol 33:38 Fastest way to boost  DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.

    35 min

  4. 9. juni

    Brad Schoenfeld's Top 5 Strength Myths BUSTED!

    Think you know how to build muscle? In our third episode, Martin Gibala does some mythbusting with two of the world’s most prominent experts in the science of strength development, Stuart Phillips and special guest Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, a professor of exercise science at Lehman College in the Bronx, New York.  In addition to being a former bodybuilder and joining Stu on the ACSM strength position statement, Schoenfeld literally wrote the textbook on strength training. Together, Phillips and Schoenfeld use science and savvy to correct some of the resistance world’s most pervasive myths, including:  Light loads don't increase muscle size You have to train to absolute failure to maximize muscular adaptations Short rest periods are best for hypertrophy Cardio kills gains Narrow post-exercise anabolic window of opportunity Join us to discuss these myths and more in the latest episode of Exercise Science!  Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com Exercise Science is powered by ⁠⁠EverMe⁠⁠. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store. ⁠⁠ LINKS Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience.  Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! Whoa Brad Schoenfeld is HUGE on Instagram! One of the best feeds out there for the up-to-the-minute science on strength training. Plus here’s his lab at Lehman College. ACSM Position Statement on Resistance Training 2026 Brad’s textbook: Science and Development of Muscle Hypertrophy, 2nd Edition Resistance Training Beyond Momentary Failure⁠⁠⁠ - Brad Schoenfeld, co-author Divergent strength gains but similar hypertrophy after low-load and high-load resistance exercise training in trained individuals: ⁠⁠⁠many roads lead to Rome⁠⁠⁠ Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau, the Toronto content marketing agency.  DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Strongest exercise scientist? 02:13 Schoenfeld intro 03:47 Myth 1: Must lift heavy 06:25 Myth 2: Must train to failure 10:52 Myth 3: Short rest periods 17:26 Myth 4: Anabolic window 26:33 Myth 5: Cardio kills gains 36:54 LQ: Losing gains DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. The science of strength and fitness is continually evolving. While we strive to provide accurate, evidence-based information, we make no representations or warranties regarding the completeness, accuracy, or timeliness of the information discussed.

    40 min

  5. 1. juni

    Much Ado About Zone 2

    Influencers can’t get enough of Zone 2 low-intensity training. So why did Martin Gibala publish a research paper challenging Zone 2 for the general public? In this episode, Stuart Phillips leads Marty through a critical examination of Zone 2.  Marty suggests that very little scientific research exists to support Zone 2 training intensity for most people—either as an effective stimulus for cardiorespiratory fitness or mitochondrial capacity. In fact, if you do between three and six hours of cardio a week, Marty believes that Zone 2 isn’t hard enough for you to efficiently accrue training benefits. In other words, if you’re an amateur athlete subscribing to the much-vaunted rule that 80% of your cardio should be in Zone 2, you’re not as fit as you otherwise could be.  So what is Zone 2 training? And is Zone 2 causing many people to exercise inefficiently, leaving them less healthy than they otherwise might be? What should people be doing INSTEAD of Zone 2? It’s all here, in the latest episode of Exercise Science!  Have a listener question or an idea for an episode? Email us at realexercisescience@gmail.com LINKS Marty and Brendon Gurd’s critical examination of Zone 2: Much Ado About Zone 2: A Narrative Review Assessing the Efficacy of Zone 2 Training for Improving Mitochondrial Capacity and Cardiorespiratory Fitness in the General Population Marty’s coauthor Brendon Gurd on their Zone 2 paper at the Discover Strength podcast.  Luke Carlson calls the “Much Ado About Zone 2” paper the most important scientific publication of 2025 in this blog post summarizing the paper.   HIIT and Zone 2: Marty on the Discover Strength podcast Sperlich paper referenced in this episode: Zone 2 Intensity: A Critical Comparison of Individual Variability in Different Submaximal Exercise Intensity Boundaries Marty was a coauthor on this ACSM/ESSA position statement on exercise intensities Marty was senior author on this Sports Medicine paper on exercise intensity in high-intensity activity, which features the intensity diagram Marty mentions Lifehacker’s Beth Skwarecki notes, Nobody Can Agree On What Zone 2 Is Oura’s heart rate zones Whoop band’s heart rate zones Garmin’s heart rate zones Peter Attia on Zone 2: This Is How You Know If You’re in Zone 2 When Doing Cardio More Attia: This is What Zone 2 Training Looks Like Attia saying 80% of cardio should be Zone 2 Origins of Zone 2: Attia and San Milan in the early days of the trend Find Stu Phillips on most platforms @mackinprof Find Martin Gibala on Instagram, which he just joined, @gibalamj 
 Exercise Science is powered by EverMe. Download EverMe for free at your favourite App store.  DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Exercise fads 00:34 Intros 02:30 What Zone 2 is 04:21 No uniform definition 06:02 Lactate threshold 08:10 Zone 2 marker variability 09:54 Ventilatory threshold 11:57 Conflation with moderate 12:58 Improving exercise prescriptions 14:40 Health v. performance 16:04 Moderate intensity is better 16:58 80/20 split 18:45 Better alternatives 19:47 Zone 2 origins 20:39 Wearable intensities 22:09 Threshold testing options 23:14 Training for health 24:21 Take-home message 26:05 Vigorous is better 26:44 Listener question DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

    30 min

  6. 26. mai

    Strength Training for Everybody!

    Our co-host Stuart Phillips was the senior author on the ACSM’s gold-standard strength training position statement, a.k.a. “the most comprehensive evidence-based guidance to date on how resistance training supports muscle strength, muscle size (hypertrophy), power, and physical performance across adulthood.”  In the premiere episode of Exercise Science, co-host Martin Gibala takes Stu through the American College of Sports Medicine update, the first position statement in 17 years.  Parsing the science, together, Stu and Marty break down why strength is the ultimate compound interest investment for your health span. How important is strength training? Why should you consider strength training 2x per week to be just as important as the other main exercise-related health guideline, 150 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise per week?  Plus: How much strength training is enough? What’s the minimum that you should do? What changed during the 17 years between position stands? And how did a 1940s bodybuilding doctor rehabbing soldiers pave the way for modern strength training?Forget the oiled-up pumping-iron musclehead stereotype. In 2026, strength training is officially for EVERYONE. And if you’re going to listen to just one podcast about the new guidelines — make it this episode of Exercise Science! LINKS Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack. YouTube. TikTok. Instagram. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. On X you can find us @realexscience.  Stu is everywhere, too, but mostly on Instagram and X. Follow him on TikTok to make him feel nice! Marty just started his own Instagram. Give him a follow! He’s also on X! ACSM Position Stand 2026: The scientific article in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise  Here’s the press release about the stand from the ACSM, and a great succinct infographic summarizing the main takeaways Here are the two previous ACSM position stands on strength: 2009 and 2002  Thomas L. DeLorme and the Medical Acceptance Of Progressive Resistance Exercise - Iron Game History Thomas L. DeLorme and the Science of Progressive Resistance Exercise - Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research (Abstract) Among the four students on the position stand, Stu said Brad Currier brought the evidence together, did the lion’s share of the writing and herded the cats All about Ken Cooper, a seminal expert on aerobic fitness who came to understand the importance of strength training  Honoring the legacy of Steve N. Blair, a giant in the field of exercise epidemiology Marty and Stu’s MOOC: Hacking Exercise for Health Exercise Science is produced by Ghost Bureau in Toronto.  DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Marty teases Stu 01:20 Episode outline 02:34 What’s a position stand? 03:36 What is the ACSM? 03:52 Building the team 05:00 What’s new in 2026 06:20 Levels of scientific papers 07:10 2026 v. 2009 08:12 Recommendations 09:30 Effort v. failure 10:38 Volume of training 12:30 Home-based options 14:06 Advice for newbies 15:13 Strength explained 18:57 Power explained 19:37 Why now? 22:17 Weight training for women 23:03 Capt. Thomas L. Delorme 25:36 Circus strongmen 26:30 Outdated philosophies 28:01 Barriers to entry 29:33 No pain, no gain is dead  31:45 Safety 33:30 Where to start 35:00 Takeaways 35:50 Listener question 36:50 Outro DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show.

    38 min

  7. Trailer

    The Exercise Science Podcast Coming Spring 2026

    Kinesiology professor Martin Gibala is the worldwide expert on time-efficient cardio. Kinesiology professor Stuart Phillips is the global expert on strength, muscle development and protein. In Exercise Science, these two friends and colleagues translate the world of exercise science for the rest of us — separating the hype from the hard evidence.

    3 min

Trailer

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Hosts Martin Gibala, PhD & Stuart Phillips, PhD share exercise science expertise, separating hype from hard facts.

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