Lessons I Learned in Law

Heriot Brown
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Scott Brown is a 'recovering lawyer'. Following years working in international law firms, Scott now runs Heriot Brown, a Legal Recruitment business. His extensive discussions with people across the legal profession have given him insight into what makes lawyers tick. Now, Scott shares those insights with you - to help you in your career. On each episode Scott invites guests to leave their egos at their door, share their professional successes and challenges, as well as the lessons they've learned in law. Presented by Scott Brown of Heriot Brown Legal Recruitment. Follow Heriot Brown:Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram

  1. Curiosity, Objectivity & Leadership Under Pressure: James Ryan at BioNTech

    21 HR AGO

    Curiosity, Objectivity & Leadership Under Pressure: James Ryan at BioNTech

    James Ryan, Chief Legal Officer and Chief Business Officer at BioNTech, joins Scott Brown to discuss the lessons he’s learned leading through one of the most transformative periods in the biotech industry. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, James reflects on his journey from scientist to lawyer, before eventually stepping into one of the most influential legal leadership roles in biotech. Joining BioNTech before it became globally recognised, he shares what it was like helping scale a fast-growing research-focused company into a world-leading biotechnology business, while navigating the intensity and pressure that came with rapid global growth and strategic partnerships, including BioNTech’s landmark collaboration with Pfizer. James’ first lesson focuses on the importance of curiosity. From scientific research to complex legal negotiations, he explains why asking better questions, understanding the client’s objectives, and genuinely engaging with the business leads to stronger advice and deeper trust. His second lesson is about objectivity. James discusses the challenge lawyers face when businesses want a particular answer — and why legal leaders must remain calm, analytical, and willing to give the advice that needs to be heard, not simply the advice others want. Finally, he talks about remembering that everyone is human. Reflecting on periods of extreme pressure and workload, James explains why approachable legal teams build stronger businesses, why mistakes need to be surfaced early rather than hidden, and why lawyers need downtime and perspective to perform at their best. Along the way, James also shares insights into: Transitioning from Chief Legal Officer into a broader Chief Business Officer role How legal teams earn influence inside high-growth businesses Why biotech companies think differently about risk The importance of relationships, curiosity, and trust in leadership How climbing helps him switch off and solve problems more effectively This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Guest Recommendations Film: Free Solo Hobby: Climbing Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB ECA: https://www.cpduk.co.uk/courses/heriot-brown-executive-counsel-accelerator-eca-courseWordsmith AI: https://www.wordsmith.ai/ Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown:  At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership. Chapters: 00:00 Intro – James Ryan & BioNTech  03:22 CLO to Chief Business Officer  05:42 BioNTech before COVID  07:21 From s

    53 min
  2. Think Like the Business: Lucy Tyrrell at Wordsmith AI on Legal Engineering, AI and Smarter In-House Teams

    30 APR

    Think Like the Business: Lucy Tyrrell at Wordsmith AI on Legal Engineering, AI and Smarter In-House Teams

    Lucy Tyrrell, General Counsel at Wordsmith AI, joins Scott Brown to explore how in-house lawyers can evolve by combining legal expertise with technology, process design, and commercial thinking. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Lucy shares her journey from private practice into high-growth tech environments, culminating in her role at a fast-scaling legal AI startup backed by Index Ventures and General Catalyst. Sitting at the intersection of law and product, she offers a unique perspective on what it means to be an “AI-native” legal function—where lawyers don’t just advise the business, but actively shape how legal work is delivered. Her first lesson centres on thinking like the business. Lucy explains why legal advice cannot exist in isolation and how understanding commercial drivers—often expressed through metrics—allows lawyers to prioritise effectively and deliver more impactful guidance. Her second lesson highlights the power of networks, both internally and externally. Whether navigating uncertainty, making career decisions, or solving unfamiliar problems, she emphasises the importance of knowing who to turn to and building relationships before you need them. Finally, she focuses on curiosity—encouraging lawyers to embrace new technology, experiment with AI tools, and develop “legal engineering” skills. Rather than waiting for perfection, she advocates for a mindset of testing, learning, and iterating—mirroring how modern tech teams operate. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Guest Recommendations Song: The Chain – Fleetwood Mac Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Legal Engineering Project (Slack Community for in-house lawyers): [APPLICATION FORM LINK] Wordsmith AI: https://www.wordsmith.ai/ Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership. Chapters: 00:00 Opening insight – Metrics, AI & modern legal roles  00:48 Scott introduces Lucy Tyrrell, GC at Wordsmith AI  03:39 Inside a legal tech business & AI-native legal teams  09:23 Lesson 1 – Think like the business  16:06 From private practice to in-house & startup life  20:48 Lesson 2 – Your network is everything  29:50 Career opportunities driven by relationships  31:31 Lesson 3 – Stay curious & embrace change  40:53 Hot or Not – KPIs, AI & legal team performance  47:21 Walk-on song, legal engineering & closing reflections

    51 min
  3. 🎙️ Step Outside Your Swim Lane: Jonathan Wiseman at Ocado Retail on Influence, Risk and Career Growth

    23 APR

    🎙️ Step Outside Your Swim Lane: Jonathan Wiseman at Ocado Retail on Influence, Risk and Career Growth

    Jonathan Wiseman, General Counsel and Chief People Officer at Ocado Retail, joins Scott Brown to share practical lessons on influence, adaptability, and building a truly commercial legal career. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Jonathan reflects on his dual role leading both legal and people functions within a fast-growing retail joint venture between Ocado and Marks & Spencer. He shares why the most effective in-house lawyers don’t stay confined to their “legal lane,” but instead operate confidently in the grey areas between legal risk, commercial decision-making, and broader business strategy. Jonathan’s second lesson centres on career progression—encouraging lawyers to take opportunities when they arise, even when they don’t perfectly align with a pre-defined plan. He candidly discusses his initial hesitation in stepping into a Chief People Officer role and how that decision ultimately expanded his leadership capability and perspective. His final insight focuses on commercial judgement. Rather than trying to “win” every legal point, he explains why the best long-term outcomes come from building sustainable relationships and balancing legal precision with business reality. It’s a reminder that success in-house is as much about collaboration and trust as it is about technical expertise. Listeners also get a glimpse into Jonathan’s personal side, from navigating music choices on family car journeys to his reflections on how AI is already reshaping both legal and HR functions. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams. Wordsmith Legal AI Guest Recommendations Song: Waterloo Sunset – The Kinks Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Listen to the Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave a review, and share it with someone building their career in legal leadership. Chapters 00:00 Opening insight – AI, judgment & modern legal roles  00:56 Scott introduces Jonathan Wiseman, GC & CPO Ocado Retail  03:13 The dual role – Legal, HR & executive leadership  07:04 Lesson 1 – Don’t stay in your swim lane  12:57 Developing commercial thinking in lawyers  19:09 Lesson 2 – Take opportunities (even if they don’t fit the plan)  24:22 Leading people, culture & HR at exec level  34:54 Lesson 3 – The best deal isn’t always the right deal  40:32 Hot or Not – AI, legal value & the role of GC  47:24 Walk-on song, music & closing reflections

    50 min
  4. 🎙️ Perspective, Candour and Strategic Leadership: Rachel Canham at Rentokil Initial (100th Episode Special)

    16 APR

    🎙️ Perspective, Candour and Strategic Leadership: Rachel Canham at Rentokil Initial (100th Episode Special)

    Episode 100: Perspective, Candour, and Strategic Leadership — Rachel Canham, Rentokil Initial  In the 100th episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Rachel Canham, Group General Counsel and Company Secretary at Rentokil Initial, reflects on what it actually takes to operate as a strategic leader at executive level — across a legal function of around 70 lawyers spanning 90 countries.  Rachel stepped into her first "top seat" role after a career that took her from private practice through senior in-house roles, and the shift required more than technical excellence. It required a change in mindset and responsibility that she's still refining.  Three lessons shape the conversation: Perspective. Shaped by personal adversity, Rachel explains why the best lawyers in a crisis aren't the ones who panic, but the ones who can zoom out and make balanced decisions when the stakes are highest. Calm, objective, clear-headed — and aware that most things are less catastrophic than they first appear. Candour. Rachel makes the case that candour is one of the most underrated qualities at senior leadership level — but only works if you've done the groundwork. Building trust, credibility, and human connection first is what earns you the right to be honest later, even when the message isn't well received. Strategic leadership. Rachel pushes back on the familiar "business partner" framing for in-house lawyers. Her view: lawyers shouldn't be partnering from the sidelines. They should be embedded in decision-making, contributing beyond legal advice, and taking an active role in delivering strategy. Rachel was recorded the same day she addressed the haggis at our Charity General Counsel Burns Supper — in a style I'm unlikely to forget. Genuinely grateful she agreed to be the 100th guest. About the guest Rachel Canham is Group General Counsel and Company Secretary at Rentokil Initial, the FTSE-listed pest control and hygiene services business. She leads a global legal function of around 70 lawyers across 90 countries and sits on the company's executive team. Guest recommendation Song: Belter — Gerry Cinnamon Resources mentioned Register your interest in The Lodge, Heriot Brown's in-house legal community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Give us a Follow!  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4 YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/ About the show Lessons I Learned in Law is the podcast from Heriot Brown, the specialist in-house legal recruitment firm. Host Scott Brown sits down with senior in-house lawyers to hear how they got where they are, what they wish they'd known, and what they're still trying to figure out.  This episode is produced in partnership with Wordsmith — the legal AI platform built for in-house teams.  Find more at heriotbrown.com. 00:00 Opening insight – The courage to be candid  01:13 Scott introduces Rachel Canham, GC Rentokil Initial  04:48 Stepping into the GC role & executive leadership  10:06 Lesson 1 – Perspective shapes better judgment  17:07 Lesson 2 – The power of candour in leadership  24:50 Lesson 3 – From business partner to strategic leader  30:18 Building commercial thinking & executive presence  33:38 Hot or Not – AI, legal leadership & career positioning  43:36 Personal brand, visibility & standing out as a lawyer  44:54 Walk-on so

    47 min
  5. Lean Into Your USP: Dean Nash at Banco Santander on Momentum, Leadership and Legal Transformation

    26 MAR

    Lean Into Your USP: Dean Nash at Banco Santander on Momentum, Leadership and Legal Transformation

    Dean Nash, Global Chief Operating Officer for Legal at Banco Santander, joins Scott Brown to share practical leadership lessons from operating at scale within one of the world’s largest legal functions. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Dean reflects on his move away from the traditional General Counsel path into a newly created global operations role focused on transforming a 1,700-lawyer legal organisation. His first lesson centres on identifying and leaning into your unique strengths. Rather than obsessing over weaknesses, he explains how recognising what genuinely gives you energy can unlock unexpected career opportunities and shape more fulfilling leadership paths. Dean’s second lesson is grounded in execution: learning to create momentum and “get things done” in environments that often reward over-analysis. Drawing on experiences in early-stage fintech and global banking, he explores how in-house lawyers can think more commercially by treating legal support as a product that helps businesses grow while managing risk. His final reflection highlights the importance of maintaining interests beyond the day job. By building perspective and protecting personal identity from becoming too tied to professional roles, he argues that lawyers can remain clearer-headed advisers and more resilient leaders. Guest Recommendations: Book: Good to Great by Jim Collins Podcast: The Tim Ferriss Show Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Executive Counsel Accelerator (ECA): https://www.cpduk.co.uk/courses/heriot-brown-executive-counsel-accelerator-eca-course The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://forms.office.com/e/Pq7Uyv8xnS The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB Connect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/ Give us a follow ·       Spotify: https://lnkd.in/er928hqJ ·       Apple Podcast: https://lnkd.in/ea6Y4JYy ·       YouTube: https://lnkd.in/eAeMvrgz About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave a review, and share it with colleagues growing their careers in legal leadership. Episode Chapters: 00:00 Opening insight – Creating momentum in business  00:56 Scott introduces Dean Nash, COO Legal at Santander  03:00 Global legal operations role & transformation remit  08:37 Lesson 1 – Lean into your unique selling point  18:14 Lesson 2 – Get shit done & create commercial momentum  21:03 Helping the business make money faster – in-house mindset  25:52 Lesson 3 – Don’t let your identity become your job title  30:18 Did I Say This? – leadership quotes & light-hearted debate  32:29 AI governance, advisory roles & future of legal leadership  35:52 Book, podcast & walk-on song reflections

    39 min
  6. 🎙️ Insight Over Information: Justine Campbell at National Grid on Context, Integrity and Leading at Scale

    19 MAR

    🎙️ Insight Over Information: Justine Campbell at National Grid on Context, Integrity and Leading at Scale

    Justine Campbell, Chief Legal Officer at National Grid, joins Scott Brown to share grounded leadership insights from operating at the centre of a complex, global energy business. In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Justine reflects on what it truly means to influence at senior level in-house. She explains why the most effective lawyers focus on delivering insight rather than just information, understanding business context, stakeholder priorities and the pace at which decisions need to be made. She also explores how strong legal leadership is built through assembling diverse, high-performing teams. From creating space for constructive challenge to investing in trusted peer networks outside the organisation, Justine shares candid reflections on how perspective shapes better judgement. Her final lesson centres on recognising the responsibility that comes with senior legal roles. Whether advising boards, managing crises or shaping organisational integrity, she highlights why lawyers must balance technical excellence with emotional intelligence and resilience. Listeners also hear personal insights, including her early ambitions outside law and the importance she places on maintaining curiosity throughout her career. Guest Recommendations: Podcast: The Rest is HistoryPodcast: RUNABook: Persuasion by Jane AustenResources & Links Mentioned in This Episode Executive Counsel Accelerator (ECA): https://www.cpduk.co.uk/courses/heriot-brown-executive-counsel-accelerator-eca-courseThe Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://forms.office.com/e/Pq7Uyv8xnSThe Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHBConnect with Heriot Brown https://heriotbrown.com/About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave a review, and share it with colleagues building their careers in legal leadership. Chapters: 00:00 Opening reflection – Insight over information   00:48 Scott introduces Justine Campbell, CLO National Grid   02:35 Justine’s career journey & leadership scope   06:52 Lesson 1 – Insight matters more than technical brilliance   14:10 Building trust with stakeholders & commercial judgement   20:42 Lesson 2 – Leading teams through challenge and change   29:18 Developing future legal leaders & succession mindset   36:05 Lesson 3 – Owning your voice and influence   44:12 GC Hot or Not – Leadership visibility & career signals   49:30 Walk-on song, personal reflections & closing

    47 min
  7. Beyond the Title: Kevin Massie on Earning Your Seat at the Table as GC of a FTSE 30

    12 MAR

    Beyond the Title: Kevin Massie on Earning Your Seat at the Table as GC of a FTSE 30

    Season 9 of Lessons I Learned in Law opens with a candid and wide-ranging conversation with Kevin Massie, Chief Legal, Risk, Governance and Compliance Officer at Imperial Brands PLC, a FTSE 30 business with 25,000+ employees globally. Just over a year into the role, Kevin reflects on stepping into one of the UK’s most senior in-house legal positions and why the title alone doesn’t guarantee influence. Kevin’s first lesson centres on work-life balance, but not in the traditional sense. From late-night IPO drafting as a trainee in Canada to navigating a demanding first year as GC alongside personal challenges at home, he shares why balance isn’t about rigid boundaries, it’s about building structures that allow you to flex when life demands it. His second lesson is a pivotal leadership moment: realising that if you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room. Kevin explains how a near-miss on a major internal project reshaped his view of leadership, from proving individual brilliance to assembling and empowering people who think differently and better than you. The third lesson focuses on networking without agenda. Kevin recounts how a long-standing mentor invested in a relationship with no commercial expectation, a powerful reminder that authentic connection, not transactional networking, builds a durable career. Along the way, Kevin shares insights on succession planning, international mobility, building diverse leadership teams, and why lawyers must earn their seat at the table, it isn’t automatically granted. About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your network. 00:00 Genuine connection & networking mindset  00:52 Introduction – Kevin Massie, GC Imperial Brands  02:09 Scope of the GC role & global team structure  05:46 Icebreaker – Farming dreams & life in the Peak District  07:20 Lesson 1 – Work-life balance isn’t binary  10:19 Setting boundaries & supporting junior lawyers  12:05 International career moves – Canada to Dubai to Cape Town  15:34 Lesson 2 – If you’re the smartest in the room, leave  18:24 Leadership growth & building stronger teams  21:45 Succession planning & developing future GCs  26:43 Expanding remit – Risk, governance & board exposure  29:30 Earning a seat at the executive table  31:28 Lesson 3 – Networking authentically & giving back  35:04 Spotting real relationships vs transactional networking  37:29 GC Hot or Not – Legal conferences & business partnering  39:55 International mobility for in-house lawyers  41:05 US firms vs Magic Circle debate  43:01 Walk-on song & episode wrap-up

    45 min
  8. We are LIVE! With Jim Reid, CLO at Fortis Inc.

    11/12/2025

    We are LIVE! With Jim Reid, CLO at Fortis Inc.

    Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues! This week, Scott is joined by Jim Reid, Chief Legal Officer at Fortis, the $35bn North American utilities group headquartered in Newfoundland, Canada. Jim’s career shift is one many lawyers dream about but rarely execute—moving directly from partnership at leading Canadian firm Davies into his first-ever in-house role as a general counsel. In this episode, Jim reflects on the lessons forged during nearly twenty years in private practice and the mindset required to thrive once inside the C-suite. His first lesson centres on resilience—not the glossy version, but the kind earned through long hours, unpredictable workflows, cancelled holidays, and early-career mistakes. Jim explains why resilience, more than intelligence or technical talent, is what determines who survives and progresses in the high-intensity world of transactional law. His second lesson explores the real engine of a legal career: people. From dealing with difficult partners and stressed clients to mentoring junior lawyers, Jim explains why being respected, curious and reliable matters far more than chasing perfection. It’s people—not deal sheets—that shape the most meaningful parts of a legal career. Jim’s final lesson is a powerful one for any lawyer eyeing the GC seat: get comfortable being uncomfortable. He recounts how stepping into an executive role required him to stop hiding behind subject-matter expertise and instead contribute to broad business decisions, even when surrounded by industry veterans. As CLO, his job is no longer to simply advise—but to decide. Jim also discusses leading a decentralised legal structure across ten utilities, the importance of local presence in regulated markets, building credibility as a business leader, and why live music—from Canadian icons The Tragically Hip to The Lumineers—remains his favourite way to reconnect with people. Guest Recommendations 🎧 Walk-on Song: The Tragically Hip – Canada’s most iconic band, known for storytelling, hockey references and emotional connection. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth. 🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.

    53 min
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About

Scott Brown is a 'recovering lawyer'. Following years working in international law firms, Scott now runs Heriot Brown, a Legal Recruitment business. His extensive discussions with people across the legal profession have given him insight into what makes lawyers tick. Now, Scott shares those insights with you - to help you in your career. On each episode Scott invites guests to leave their egos at their door, share their professional successes and challenges, as well as the lessons they've learned in law. Presented by Scott Brown of Heriot Brown Legal Recruitment. Follow Heriot Brown:Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram

Information

  • Creator
    Heriot Brown
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2026
  • Episodes
    116
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Heriot Brown
  • Show Website
    Lessons I Learned in Law

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