The best engineer Matt Dalio ever hired didn't have a high school diploma. That fact runs through this whole conversation — what building proves that credentials can't. Education is changing because work is changing. AI is already reshaping what people can build, how they learn, and what employers actually value — and Arizona State University has become the clearest picture of where it's going, precisely because of the reputation it had to shake. Matt Dalio, founder of Endless, joins Eric Kasimov. Matt's work centers on one idea: young people should be creators of technology, not just consumers of it. The conversation runs from Arizona State's President Michael Crow measuring success by who a university educates instead of who it rejects, to the engineer with no diploma who outperformed the Stanford hires, to why building games might be the most complete education a kid can get, and what happens to a generation that opts out of AI versus one that learns to wield it. WHAT WE TALK ABOUT Why Arizona State University (ASU) stands out in higher educationMichael Crow's "realm five learning" — education that's infinitely scalable, infinitely personalized, infinitely affordableWhat "GitHub University" shows about proof of work and why it beat the Stanford hiresWhy portfolios are becoming more important than resumesHow game making teaches technical, creative, and collaborative skillsWhy AI fluency may become a core workforce skillThe difference between using screens to consume and using them to buildGSV (Global Silicon Valley) and spreading the builder mindset beyond the ValleyWhy young people should start building, tinkering, and solving real problemsCHAPTERS 00:00 – Arizona State University and innovation in education01:21 – Michael Crow’s approach to access and scale03:20 – Changing perceptions of ASU05:33 – Why higher education has to change07:09 – Prestige, jobs, and the shifting value of a degree08:06 – GitHub, proof of work, and hiring without a diploma11:26 – Why portfolio can matter more than pedigree13:08 – AI, marketing, and what students actually need to learn15:15 – Teaching young people to become AI power users16:00 – Why game making teaches multidisciplinary skills18:34 – ASU, scale, and reaching more learners20:33 – Soft skills, collaboration, and real work21:46 – Games, arts, media, and engineering at ASU23:37 – Coding, Claude Code, and technical fluency25:37 – Why Matt still believes code matters28:07 – Screens, phones, Chromebooks, and real computers31:42 – What Gen Z can do now32:31 – Why schools are often anti-AI34:33 – Building as the path to employment35:52 – Burning your resume and building proof37:22 – Moving from Abu Dhabi back to the US38:34 – AI education in the UAE39:15 – Bringing AI education to more people40:39 – Building through contracts, partners, and foundations42:00 – Why America needs broader access to builder skills44:15 – Helping young people join the modern economy45:39 – Public schools and the difficulty of scale46:19 – Kids who are already building their own futures49:26 – Why the traditional system still matters50:00 – Vibe coding an SAT prep tool52:08 – AI concerns, climate, and the risk of opting out55:00 – Global Silicon Valley and spreading the builder mindset57:36 – Games, sports, licensing, and learning through interests59:06 – Game studios, communities, and professional learning01:01:49 – Finding your passion by building01:02:50 – Matt’s book and Endless Future01:04:09 – The lean book and shipping early01:04:46 – Where to find Matt Dalio and Endless Connect Matt Dalio: Website | LinkedIn Eric Kasimov: X | LinkedIn Related Entrepreneur Perspectives episodes How AI Is Changing College Counseling and Admissions with Senan Khawaja, CEO of KollegioDavid Selinger on AI Security, $15M Series B, and the Deep Sentinel MissionAnkit Somani | From Google to Conifer: Rare-Earth-Free Motors, $20M Seed, and Rethinking CollegeEntrepreneur Perspectives is produced by QuietLoud Studios. Music by Jess & Ricky — SoundCloud
