Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Richard Ostler

Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. I am the author of three books: “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566) “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280) The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations. Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️ I am the author of two Ensign articles: ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use. This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children. Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5 E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

  1. 2d ago

    Episode 904: Blake Muir, Gay Latter-day Saint, Powerful Story

    My friend Blake Muir (age 33, Utah State Grad, Utah State Employee) joins us to share his unique story in creative way—sharing lyrics of songs to frame individual chapters of his story—super powerful and deeply moving. Blake talks about realizing he might be gay in middle school—leading to everything he knew how to do to not be gay. The resulting shame and self-loathing leading to a suicide attempt in high school. Blake talks about finding some hope as the Church was moving to more understanding while preparing for his mission. Blake talks about his mission and then returning home and trying to date women. Blake talks about the complicated road working with Church leaders (some really helpful, some harmful) and ultimately concluding the Church was complicating his relationship with Heavenly Father and seeing his way forward. Blake—who hasn’t 100% closed the door on the Church—talks about learning to “allow God to love me as a queer man” and “didn’t want to lose his queerness”—something he sees as a divine attribute. Blake talks (and thanks) his supportive parents. Thank you Blake for being on the podcast. I was so moved by your story. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Respect. You story will help so many. I encourage everyone to listen/share this episode. It will help all of us better support queer people in our lives. Links: Blake’s Instagram: @muir_blake Blake’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blakw.muir

    1h 13m

  2. 3d ago

    Episode 903: Jeanette Griggs, New Book “Be True”

    My friend Jeanette Griggs (mid 40’s, engaged to her future wife, decades of faithful service) joins us to bravely share her story about her long road to understand and accept her sexual orientation. Jeanette writes about this in her new book named: “Be True: From Orthodoxy to Authenticity—The Journey Wasn’t Straight” Jeanette shares about growing up in Idaho where everyone was a Church member and anything said about gay/lesbian people was around the “addiction/heinous” worldview. Jeanette talks about getting new perspective in college but then turning to church teachings/talks/actions with more devotion than ever because of her deep-seated conclusion that she was broken. Jeanette talks about later learning this was religious scrupulosity—and that she is not broken. Jeanette talks about falling in love with a woman and how that relationship became a complicated decade of her life because of the Church Education System, the lack of space for LGBTQ members within the Church, and her efforts to reconcile her lifelong faith with reality. She talks about caring for that woman through a terminal illness and mourning her passing. Jeanette concludes with finding her fiancée and the joy, health of the relationship, and the peace she has in her life now. Jeanette’s book includes journal entries and letters to her younger self—super powerful—as she takes us into the complex/painful/difficult road she walked. Thank you Jeanette’s for writing this book and being on the podcast. You are a good soul. I invite everyone to read/share her book. Jeanette’s book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GP1V9F8S Jeanett’s Facebook: jeanette.griggs.5 Jeanett’s Instagram @grigjean

    56 min

  3. 5d ago

    Episode 902: Becca Moore, Transgender Latter-day Saint

    My friend Becca Moore—who had a strong testimony—bravely shares the difficult road she faces as a transgender Latter-day Saint. Being transgender and living authentically has been healing and liberating for Becca—the challenge/pain is not being accepted/supported by the Church or her family. Becca (age 61, four children, 9 grandchildren, RM from South Korea Seoul West mission, grew up in Sandy UT, BYU grad, career in banking) shares the negative impact of the Church’s August 2024 transgender restrictions (see https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2024/08/24/new-lds-church-policies/) causing her to feel unsafe at Church and exposing her and other transgender members to humiliation and abuse. Becca talks about being able to attend Relief Society and how that all changed with the new restrictions and other difficult experiences. It is heartbreaking to hear. We both talk about problems with far-right political ideology that has demonized transgender folks—the same heartbreaking historical pattern repeating itself with gay/lesbian folks, blacks, Native Americans, Jews, etc. We talk about Christ’s teaching and gospel principles that show us how to love and support our transgender friends. We talk about the need as a church/society to live up to Elder Rasband’s invitation to support our transgender friends: “Elder Ronald A. Rasband taught that people who experience transgender feelings need to be encircled in the arms of their Savior and know they are loved. So often the Lord calls on us; He expects us to be His welcoming, loving arms. We need to encourage their friends to do the same” (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender/supporting) Thank you Becca for being on the podcast and sharing your honest story. Our lack of support for you is heartbreaking. I hope we can all listen to your story and then consider what we can do in our circle of influence to follow Christ's example to love and support those on the margins like our dear transgender and non-binary friends. You are super brave to share your story. You give me hope.

    1h 11m

  4. Jun 9

    Episode 901: Sid Bassett, Returned Mission President, New Podcast: “Return Missionary Next Chapters”

    My friend Sid Bassett (married father of four, retired business executive, licensed clinical mental health councilor) and his wife Stephanie recently returned for being mission leaders of the Hawaii Laie Mission (2022-2025). Sid joins us to talk about his new podcast called “Return Missionary Next Chapters” which shares inspiring, honest stories of life after the mission. Through candid, vulnerable, and deeply human conversations with returned missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the show explores how mission service and cumulative life experiences shape faith, identity, and the direction of both the chapters already lived and those still being written. These are stories for anyone navigating the questions, growth, and hope that come after the name tag comes off. Sid also shares some of his unique life experiences including retiring as a business executive and then—completely out of left field—going back to school and became a clinical health counselor and how that experience helped him as a Mission President with over 650 missionaries. Please check out Sid’s new podcast and share it with others—really powerful episodes covering topics that help all of us. The work Sid is doing is so needed in our community. Thank you my lifelong friend Sid for being on the podcast and all you are doing to help others. Sid’s Podcast: https://rmnextchapters.com/ from here you can follow and link to your favorite podcasting platform. Sid’s IG account: @rmnextchapters Sid’s e-mail: sid@rmnextchapters.com

    1h 2m

  5. Jun 6

    Episode 900: Jenn Zingmark – Finding Faith, Healing, and Hope After Divorce

    Jenn Zingmark joins us to share her deeply personal journey through divorce, faith, healing, and rebuilding. Jenn is an active Latter-day Saint, wife, mother of five, grandmother of four, certified life coach, podcast host, and founder of Find the Joy with Jenn. Jenn shares her experience of marrying in the temple, becoming a young mother, and eventually facing the heartbreaking reality that her marriage would not survive despite years of effort. She discusses the spiritual wrestle that accompanied her decision to divorce, the personal revelation that guided her through that difficult season, and the challenges of navigating divorce within Latter-day Saint culture. Jenn also shares how she rebuilt her life after divorce, remarried, blended two families together, and discovered that God still had a plan for her future, even when life looked very different from what she had originally envisioned. Today, Jenn helps men and women navigate divorce through coaching, online resources, workshops, and her Faith Filled Divorce program. Drawing from both personal experience and years of coaching others, she shares practical insights and gospel-centered principles for healing, finding peace, rebuilding faith, and moving forward after divorce. Jenn also discusses ways Church members, leaders, family, and friends can better support those experiencing divorce with greater compassion, understanding, and hope. Whether you are personally navigating divorce, considering divorce, supporting a loved one through divorce, or simply seeking to better understand this often misunderstood experience, this conversation offers valuable perspective, encouragement, and hope. For more resources, visit Jenn's website and podcast using the links below. Links: Jenn's Website: https://www.findthejoywithjenn.com/ Find the Joy with Jenn Podcast: https://www.findthejoywithjenn.com/joy-in-the-journey-podcast Faith Filled Divorce: https://www.findthejoywithjenn.com/program-details

    44 min

  6. Jun 3

    Episode 899: Steven Mark Trier, Excommunicated Gay Former Mormon

    ** Why would I have an excommunicated gay former Mormon on the podcast? Well, I’ve learned that my excommunicated friends are usually good people—often doing the best they can with complex circumstances—children of the same Heavenly Parents and my spirit brother/sister. I learned a lot from Steven. Steven is not in the space “of burn it all down” and “everyone should leave the church”. He gives grace to me for being in the Church and I’m returning that grace. His story is powerful and helps me consider what I can do to better love and support my LGBTQ friends. When we know better, we do better. ** My friend Steven Mark Trier (age 58, adopted, excommunicated in 1992) joins us to share his story. Steven (a talented pianist, composer, and producer), takes us back to a time when there were few resources and limited understanding for gay Latter-day Saints. Steven talks about being gay and doing all he could to not be gay including service a mission “to be straight” and considering castration. Steven talks about accepting himself as God made me. Steven talks about how hard it was to leave the Mormon church—all the community that he enjoyed—and the chance to share his musical talents. Steven talks about how that was all necessary as he felt he needed to be “in-charge of his own destiny” and be authentic. Steven talks about “why would a God who made me as I am send me to hell for being me” Steven talks about navigating his relationship with a narcissist father and a supportive mother and eventually reuniting with his biological mother. Steven talks about complex mental health challenges and how he now has found stability, peace, and love in his life (including being with his parter for the last 8 years). Thank you Steven for being on the podcast. You are a survivor and a remarkable man. I wish we could have better loved and supported you as a young gay Mormon. I’m sorry for all the needless pain. You are a good man. You story give other hope. Links: Steven’s book: https://aureusmediadesign.com/excommunication/

    1h 22m

  7. May 31

    Episode 898: Amie Steele, LDS Mother Supporting Her Two Gay Sons

    My friend Amie Steele talks about her powerful new Substack (see show notes) sharing their journey (along with her husband Randy) to love and support their gay son Hunter, his decision to date men, and falling in love with Jake, and their wedding in 2025. Amie talks about walking this road with Hunter and her personal revelation to love and support Hunter and Jake. She talks about the beauty of their marriage and “by the fruits you shall know them”—and how this outcome brings them and the Steele family joy, peace, and love. Amie talks about her work as a high school special education teacher and the need for “Individual Education Plan” for her students—and how the Church’s one-size-fits-all approach to marriage doesn’t have a plan/place for our gay/lesbian members (unless they feel called to be celibate or in a mixed-orientation marriage)—and is super painful for their family. She also talks about how she “can’t put this on a shelf” and wait for more understanding—as Hunter needed to get on with his life—and their family needed to love/support him. Amie then talks about her son Presley who is gay and their conversation leading up to the podcast giving Amie permission to share about Presley. She talks about how much easier it is to accept that Presley is gay and know how to love and support him because of the road she has walked with Hunter. This podcast and Amie’s Substack are super powerful. If you want to learn how to better love/support the queer people in your lives (or may come into your lives), please read/share Amie’s Substack and this podcast. Thank you Amie for being on the podcast. You and Randy have a beautiful family. Your two gay sons Hunter and Presley are good men with a wonderful future. Thanks for all you are doing to help us building Zion. Links: Substack: https://amiesteele.substack.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amie.j.steele Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amie_steele_/ Episode 626: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-626-hunter-steele-gay-byu-student-and-amie-steele-supportive-lds-mother

    1h 15m

  8. May 28

    Episode 897: Greg Prince Book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church”, Episode Three

    My friend Greg Prince (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks about the future—and what might be possible for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Greg talks about the process for other significant changes in our church and also shares thoughts on doctrine vs policy vs teachings. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB

    1h 23m
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About

Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. I am the author of three books: “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566) “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280) The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations. Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️ I am the author of two Ensign articles: ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use. This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children. Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5 E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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