Nerd Journey: Career Advice for the Technology Professional

John White | Nick Korte
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Are you a technology professional unsatisfied with your current role? Looking for a resource to help understand changing job functions, changing organizations, or gaining recognition and progression? The Nerd Journey podcast helps explore alternative roles, increase job satisfaction, and accelerate career progression. Each week, we uncover patterns of technical career progression by dissecting careers of guests and discussing different job roles they’ve held, or discussing relevant career topics. We’ve interviewed people in IT operations, sales engineering, technical marketing, product management, people management, network engineering, cybersecurity, software development, entrepreneurs, and more. We also discuss improving job satisfaction and accelerating career growth. We are John White and Nick Korte, two technologists with experience in IT operations and sales engineering who started this podcast in 2018. We release on Tuesdays, and can be found at https://nerd-journey.com.

  1. Layoff Bounce Back: Resilience through Personal and Professional Networks with Dave Stevens

    21H AGO

    Layoff Bounce Back: Resilience through Personal and Professional Networks with Dave Stevens

    Imagine your work day starting off like any other only to find you’ve been laid off. What would you do next? Dave Stevens lived this reality a couple of years ago and joins us this week in episode 354 to share the lessons from that experience. We’ll take you through how Dave processed the news of being laid off, the warning signs he missed, when he knew it was time to begin searching for a new role, how he thought about what to do next, and the critical importance of his personal and professional network throughout this process. Regardless of your age or the size of your professional network, Dave shares actionable suggestions for building professional connections that we all may be overlooking. Original Recording Date: 10-28-2025 Topics – Background and the Impact of a Layoff Event, Initial Forward Progress and Reliance on a Professional Network, Skills Gaps and Unexpected Positives, Elements of the Personal and Professional Network, Reaching Closure and Reflecting Back on the Lessons 2:27 – Background and the Impact of a Layoff Event Dave Stevens is a Field Solutions Architect at Pure Storage. In this role, Dave is a technical overlay for pre-sales technical personnel at Pure across North America. This is the role Dave took after he was impacted by a layoff. What was Dave’s role before he was impacted by a layoff event? For context, the layoff event we discuss in this episode took place around 2.5 years before this recording. Dave was classified as a systems engineer or pre-sales technical resource at his employer supporting multiple account reps. It was more of a solutions architect type of role, and Dave highlights his entry into this organization and role was via acquisition. Was there an element of technical marketing to the role? Nick mentions that Dave often had to attend trade shows in this role. Dave had a virtualization background and went to a lot of events to discuss how his company’s products integrated with those different technology ecosystems. The day Dave was laid off started as a normal day at his home office. His boss was based in Europe, so most 1-1 calls were usually late in the day his boss’s time (early afternoon for Dave). A meeting popped up that was earlier than usual, but Dave didn’t think anything of it. Right after Dave joined the remote session for the meeting, someone from HR joined followed by Dave’s boss. Dave wasn’t quite sure what to expect and didn’t know what was happening. He didn’t know if it was a layoff coming or some other kind of situation happening at his company. When Dave was laid off, they told him it was not for performance reasons, but there weren’t really any other details provided on why he was being laid off. “So, at that point it was just like, ‘what do I do?’” – Dave Stevens, on receiving layoff news After receiving the news, Dave’s access to company systems like e-mail was quickly cut off. He went downstairs and spent the rest of his day relaxing. Dave did not want to talk about what happened any further that first day. Did Dave struggle with separating his identity from his employer or the job he held at all when this happened? Dave says he did, at least a little bit. Dave wanted to be successful in whatever role he found himself, and the reason he was in the systems engineering role at the time of the layoff event is a result of his drive to be successful in the years leading up to that role. “I also wanted to make sure that…the people that I worked with that I enjoyed working with. If I didn’t enjoy working with them, then there was no reason to continue staying there. So that’s part of my identity on how I interact with work.” – Dave Stevens In the early days of Twitter (now X), Dave defined an identity there. He also created a personal blog. Dave says his identity was often tied to where he worked. “Once this all happened, I just kind of cut that off. And I needed some time to really digest what I just went through that day.” – Dave Stevens Is there something Dave wishes people had done for him when this first happened? Dave says he wishes he would have listened to his wife. Before experiencing the layoff event, a number of colleagues who had entered the company through acquisition like Dave were either leaving or had been laid off (including his boss being laid off). At the time, Dave didn’t think much about these events. Dave’s wife had encouraged him to look for other jobs before the layoff happened, and he feels he should have listened. “It’s much easier finding a job when you have a job. There’s not as much pressure on you. You can take your time and really find the job that you want. That’s the one thing that kind of took me by surprise….” – Dave Stevens Did Dave’s wife also point him in a direction or provide feedback on the type of work he should pursue? We’ve spoken to previous guests who had spouses that provided insight into the type of work that made them happy. Dave feels like there has been an element of this in place since he and his wife got married. When Dave got a job opportunity to relocate to the New Hampshire area, his wife had some interesting feedback. “It’s great that you’re going to make more than you’re making at the job you are currently, but I don’t want you to take a job just because of money. I want you to take a job because it’s something you’re interested in doing and you’re going to be happy at. So, I’ve always kept that in the back of my mind every time I go and look for a job….” – Dave Stevens, quoting his wife’s advice Dave considered this same advice when pursuing his current role at Pure. Because he enjoyed meeting and speaking with people during the interview process, the decision to accept the role was easy. Liking the people he would be working with was more important than a pay increase. 10:53 – Initial Forward Progress and Reliance on a Professional Network How long did Dave need to process before taking the first actions toward a new role? For the first 3 weeks or so, Dave relaxed a little bit. There were a number of projects at home that he needed to do and some that he wanted to do. Working on the projects helped take his mind off what had happened. Dave mentions he was given a severance for about 3 months and wanted to find a new role within that time period if possible. But if he could not find something in that time period, it would not be the end of the world. Dave tells us it was easier to find work when he was laid off than it is currently. Close to the time of this recording, AWS announced job cuts for up to 30,000 people. He made the conscious decision after those first few weeks to spend the first part of the day searching for new jobs and then continued working on different projects in the afternoons. How did Dave know who to reach out to first? Nick argues that most of us likely don’t have a list of who we would call if something like this happened. When Dave came to the New England area, he started working for Dell in tech marketing. Through his work, Dave built a tight bond with many of his co-workers. Dave remembers sending a text message to many of his former co-workers (none of which were still at Dell) asking if they knew of any open opportunities. Dave wanted to understand what former colleagues were working on now and what the culture of their company was like. He started by seeking out people he already enjoyed working with and analyzed whether it made sense to go and work with them again. Was Dave open to different types of roles in his job search, or did that not matter? It had to be interesting work and involve people he wanted to work with or enjoyed working with. Dave says as long as it was something in the tech field, it didn’t matter too much. Dave began his career in systems administration and tech support and had experience in the storage industry, with backups, and with Active Directory to name a few areas. He had also done technical marketing and was open to returning to it. Dave also looked at pre-sales systems engineering or solution architect roles. What about taking roles that moved him deeper into a business unit like product management? Dave says product management is interesting work, but depending on the company, the work may not always have the technical aspects he likes. Many of the product managers at Pure are quite technical, but most of the product management roles he observed at other companies were not as technical as he would like. “It just didn’t interest me. It wasn’t technical enough in nature for me.” – Dave Stevens, on moving into product management It sounds like Dave had done a good job of keeping in touch with people in his professional network over time. “I have always made sure to have a small group of folks that I can just reach out to at any time and…chat about anything…. I’ve always made sure to have that…. I didn’t talk to them all the time, but we all interacted in some way, shape, or form whether it was an e-mail or text messaging…even some stuff on LinkedIn. We all kind of kept in touch…. I had people that I could fall back on and reach out to and get advice from if I needed to. This is the time where I really needed some advice on where to go to next.” – Dave Stevens Dave says he was lucky enough to find a new job before the end of his 3 months of severance pay. Dave’s wife commented that she wasn’t too worried about him. She knew he had a strong professional network. Did anyone in Dave’s professional network ask him what he wanted to do next, or did they just start making recommendations based on what they knew about him? Dave says it was a little bit of both. Some people pointed Dave to specific open roles in the same group where they worked (still in tech, of course), while others directed him to the company job site and offered to act as a referra

    41 min
  2. Translating Experience: Clarity from Leadership in the People Industry with Christy Honeycutt (2/2)

    DEC 2

    Translating Experience: Clarity from Leadership in the People Industry with Christy Honeycutt (2/2)

    How can we help recruiters advocate for us in a tough job market? According to people industry veteran Christy Honeycutt, our guest in episode 353, it starts with being kind and translating your experience into something a recruiter can understand. And even more importantly, it takes practice. In part 2 of our discussion with Christy, she translates deep experience in talent acquisition and recruitment that gives us insight into the current job market. You’ll hear more details about the nuances of RPOs (recruitment process outsourcers), the difference between job hugging and job abandonment, and the importance of personal branding and differentiation. Stay until the end when Christy shares her reasons for turning down C-suite positions and how clarity on her long-term goals is carrying her forward into what’s next. Now that you’ve heard someone model it for you, how will you translate your own experience? If you missed part 1 of our discussion with Christy, check out Episode 352 – People First: Systematizing Go-to-Market for Your Role with Christy Honeycutt (1/2). Original Recording Date: 09-30-2025 Topics – A Deeper Look at Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO), Translating Your Experience with 3 Wins, Bad Actors and Leadership in the People Industry, Today’s Job Market and Life Outside the C-Suite 2:56 – A Deeper Look at Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) When it comes to RPO (recruitment process outsourcing), is this a one-size-fits-all approach, or does it show up differently depending on what a company needs? In Christy’s experience, most RPO organizations offer services like executive search, but they may offer full RPO, which usually involves hiring more than 500 people per year. Normally an RPO brings a mix of skills to the table. A client may want the RPO to take only talent acquisition or may want to control offer management, but they may want the RPO to take everything (attracting new talent, offer management, coordinating with HR for new employee onboarding). “If a company wants it a certain way, they can stop it at a certain point…. But most RPOs, full RPOs, is attraction to offer accepted and then it tees over to the HR team.” – Christy Honeycutt John has worked for companies where the recruitment or talent acquisition personnel were marked as contractors in the internal global address book but had company e-mail addresses. Would this mean the personnel are contracting directly with a company or working through an RPO? Christy says it could be either scenario. When she managed an RPO earlier in her career, they were most successful when the client encouraged the RPO to brand as the company. Someone might indicate they do recruitment for a specific company on LinkedIn but be an employee of an RPO. Christy tells us how important it is for the RPO to understand an organization’s mission, vision, benefits, and culture because the RPO is often attracting talent and selling people on why they should apply and interview. “When you think about recruitment and talent acquisition, regardless, it’s a lot of marketing because you’ve got a really cool position and you’ve got to find the perfect fit.” – Christy Honeycutt 5:55 – Translating Your Experience with 3 Wins Right now, recruiters and talent acquisition professionals have a distinct challenge. Many resumes look the same because candidates are using AI tools. “What people think is helping set them apart is actually making them look more similar. So now you’ve got recruiters and talent acquisition; they don’t know if these are fake resumes. They don’t know if they’re real. And they’re getting on the call with these people and finding out they are fake; they don’t have any of this requirement.” – Christy Honeycutt Christy shares a little secret about learning recruitment. She gives the example of a recruiter needing to recruit for an executive level role in technology. Recruiters are encouraged to seek out and find the C-players to practice asking them questions, understand nuance, and grasp the terminology. This is a training exercise. Following this process, a recruiter would then have more credibility once they speak to the A-players they actually want to hire. “What I would encourage is if you are a C-player, you’re not going to know it. Just be kind and know that the person you’re talking to has never held a technical role (probably, most likely)…and might not understand half the stuff that you guys do. The acronyms aren’t going to be the same. Just be gracious with them because the more you can help them translate your experience, the better you’re going to be positioned to get you over the line…. They don’t want to talk to 10 people to get 1 hire. They want to talk to 3 people to get a hire…. And remember that the TA, HR, recruiters, whatever you want to call them…there’s a pretty good chance that they want to help you and that they’re doing the job because they like people. And I think they get a bad rap.” – Christy Honeycutt Christy tells us about something called a slate (a group of 3-5 individuals who apply for a job that a recruiter will go and interview). Recruiters are using AI to help filter through applications. “The biggest thing I can tell you is be your own person. Be your own, authentic person. Have your stories of how you’ve shown up and shown out…. I tell everybody for every job that you’ve worked at, you need to have 3 wins…. Figure out…your top things that you accomplished at each role and have that and be ready to speak to it. And then…ask questions. Interview them too…. Make sure it’s a culture fit for you.” – Christy Honeycutt Christy says things like the great resignation and quiet quitting are just behaviors that get repeated over time. Right now, there is a fearful state of job hugging. “We’re job hugging. No one is hugging a job. People are trying to stay employed in the market. That’s all it is.” – Christy Honeycutt Christy says if you are staying somewhere because you have a job and are not happy, figure out how to make yourself happy by determining it is not a fit, understanding your passions, and beginning your exit plan. “Companies are not our families. They are going to let us go. It’s going to come down to the business.” – Christy Honeycutt It’s important to keep the human element in mind if we are seeking a new role (the human element on both sides). Christy tells the story of a senior recruiter who called her about a conversation with a job candidate, and Christy knew the person was burned out, bored, and curious. “High performers are always open minded and curious, but if you fall in that category, figure it out sooner than later so you’re not burning yourself out because then you’re in a very dangerous situation. That job hugging is going to be job abandonment. You’re going to get to boot. It’s not going to be the other way around. It’s just kind of level setting with your psyche.” – Christy Honeycutt 11:28 – Bad Actors and Leadership in the People Industry Going back to recruiters getting practice and experience from interviewing candidates, Nick looks at this from the lens that everyone needs at bats to gain experience. Though it may be batting practice for a recruiter, it is also practice for the candidate. We don’t practice interviewing very often. Christy agrees it is practice on both sides and emphasizes that kindness is key. She’s had multiple conversations with recruiters who didn’t understand why a hiring manager did not want a specific candidate. We might never know all the effort a recruiter put into promoting us with a hiring manager. Some recruiters, however, should not be in their roles. Christy tells us about a time in her career when she was referred to as “The Kraken.” Christy managed a tight team of talent acquisition professionals who respected and loved her as a boss. They knew she had high expectations of her team. Christy’s team members would have to launch programs for global clients within 30-60 days sometimes, for example. “So, my team had to be kind of like special ops because we managed the globe, and it was high pressure.” – Christy Honeycutt As she progressed in her career, Christy would be given individuals who were not performing on other teams. Before managing someone out of the business, Christy always gave people a chance to redeem themselves because until she met the person and they worked for her, she was only hearing one side of the story. Christy recounts being asked to join an RPO to clean it up. She met with each recruiter to understand the key metrics and performance indicators. Christy tells us that for any job opening (or job requisition) a recruiter was carrying at this time, they should be submitting 3-5 candidates for each job, and a manager would expect this within 2 weeks of the job opening. There was a specific recruiter who only submitted 2 candidates per week across 15 job openings, and Christy recounts the performance conversation with this person. “There are some people that are in roles that they shouldn’t be that take advantage and kind of sit back….” – Christy Honeycutt As people gain seniority in talent acquisition and recruitment, sometimes you deal with people’s egos. This is the exception and not the rule. John mentions it would probably be difficult to coast based on one’s reputation in talent acquisition. Based on the metrics for success and open job requisitions, it should be obvious who is doing well and who isn’t. Christy says this goes back to leadership. Maybe these individuals never had a boss who would hold them accountable. “If we go back to managers and leaders, most of them aren’t trained, and a lot of them want to be liked.” – Christy Honeycutt Christy is the daughter of a Marine. This means the mission gets

    39 min
  3. People First: Systematizing Go-to-Market for Your Role with Christy Honeycutt (1/2)

    NOV 18

    People First: Systematizing Go-to-Market for Your Role with Christy Honeycutt (1/2)

    Go-to-market strategy is something we often associate with a company or its products / services, but what if we could apply go-to-market to our job role? Christy Honeycutt, a talent acquisition veteran and our guest this week in episode 352, has used this mindset as a personal differentiator starting with her first job in the banking industry. We’ll follow Christy as she describes early experience as a people manager, learn why she developed a people first mentality, and recount the events that kickstarted her career in recruitment. This story helps us understand what is required to systematize the work we do and how difficult it can be for things that seem easy. Christy will also educate you on the importance of developing AI competence and the impact of recruitment process outsourcing on job candidate experience. Original Recording Date: 09-30-2025 Topics – Meet Christy Honeycutt, A Go-to-Market Perspective, Beginnings in the Banking Industry, Learning to Systematize and Duplicate Yourself, A People First Approach, Getting into Recruitment 2:10 – Meet Christy Honeycutt Christy Honeycutt has 20 years of talent acquisition experience, go-to-market experience, and some marketing experience sprinkled throughout. Christy is also the host of two different podcasts: On Inside the C-Suite, Christy interviews executive leaders to gain insight from life in these roles. StrategicShift is focused on the future of work, innovation, and AI. 3:17 – A Go-to-Market Perspective How would Christy define talent acquisition and recruitment and the differences between them? Recruitment should be thought about as more active. There is a job open with specific requirements which need to be filled based on time constraints. Talent acquisition is more strategic according to Christy. This would include understanding why a role is vacant, the succession plans, cultural initiatives, and workforce planning. Christy refers to this as “engaging passive pipelines for long-term goals.” Personnel in talent acquisition and recruitment are usually in those roles because they want to help people, but these roles may look slightly different across companies of various sizes and in different industries. How would Christy define go-to-market? We hear this term quite often but are not confident that everyone truly understands what this means. For context, Christy talks about looking at this with a lens across many different departments / internal organizations – marketing, recruitment, and even sales. “Go-to-market is understanding what is the product and who is the end user…. Am I filling a job? Then I’m going to market for that candidate that fits that job. Am I working for a tech company (which I most recently did)? Then, yes, I need to understand what is our product, who is the end user, who is the buyer…and how can I get this to market for them…to see, to use to buy, and to be delighted in? The go-to-market is really kind of a Frankenstein effect in my opinion. It’s really understanding the value and how it translates and then how you can connect the dots…. Go-to-market for me has just kind of been at my core since I was a kid.” – Christy Honeycutt For recruitment, the go-to-market is usually set based on an organization’s vision, mission, values, and culture. Christy uses the example of negotiating with her father (a former Marine) to get what she wanted when she was younger to illustrate that go-to-market can mean understanding how to sell. 7:01 – Beginnings in the Banking Industry Christy was a cheerleader in high school and got a fully paid scholarship to college, but at age 17, she was diagnosed with cancer. As a result of the diagnosis, she was not able to attend college. Christy always wanted to be a mom and did not want to ruin her chance to have children. Christy married her college sweetheart and became a stay-at-home mom of 2 children. She is now heathy, happy, and thankful she was able to have children. Christy’s father owned a nonprofit, and even while she was a stay-at-home mom, Christy was involved in marketing for nonprofits as a result. Christy also was part of the boards of her children’s schools, did volunteer work, and even taught pre-school. After moving to a new state, Christy needed to get a job to support her children. After applying at a bank, she landed a manager job. Within 6 months, the bank branch where she worked was the highest producing in the state of Texas. Christy came up with marketing initiatives to get customers to visit the bank. She gives the example of a yearly Halloween contest. At one point, the bank was robbed, and Christy learned to lead in stressful situations through this experience. She also learned that she has a photographic memory. Christy tells us her career really began in banking and then transitioned into marketing. Listen to the story about one of her clients who was a mortgage broker. Christy had 2 boys in various sports and was wearing herself out between work at the bank and home life. This mortgage broker sent an e-mail to help Christy get interviews for a role at a different bank. Christy tells the story of interviewing in the mortgage division of another bank (Prime Lending) close to Halloween. She was dressed as Lucille Ball for an event at her employer and ended up going to the interview in costume. The people who interviewed Christy loved it, and she was offered the job on the spot. 11:40 – Learning to Systematize and Duplicate Yourself “But the really interesting thing that happened is they said, ‘we want you to hire 3 of you…. What you’re doing is working, so what we’d like you to do is go have a think about how you can multiply that into other branches….’ Can you imagine sitting down and going, ‘what is it that I did today and how did I do it?’ …And, just really creating a job description, a profile, how they’re going to be successful…and then find the people and train the people? So that was my very first…experience with recruitment.” – Christy Honeycutt After removing the shock of being told to multiply herself, Christy began a process that she would repeat over and over in her career – thinking outside the box to create something special that she could automate or systematize. At that first bank, Christy managed people but had no prior training as a manager. How did she figure out how to manage people, and then how did that translate to the role in which she was asked to create job descriptions and multiply herself? We’ve heard from some guests that most first-time managers do not get training. Christy echoes this sentiment. Large banks will train you on laws and procedures, but Christy tells us she had to train herself on the people side. Mainly, she needed to learn how to manage the people, their schedules, and learn how to encourage them. Despite being the boss, Christy was still friends with the people who worked there. In being asked to multiply herself, Christy had to systematize the job she was already doing. She tells us it was a daunting task. “When you’re really good at things, what I’ve found is they seem natural to you, and they are not that hard.” – Christy Honeycutt When asked to duplicate herself, Christy downplayed her contributions a little bit. She advises all of us to step back and really think about the work we have done because we might not immediately recognize it and may downplay it in a similar way. As humans, we might at first feel like it is bragging to share the factual things we have done. Christy had to think about what she did, simplify it, and figure out how to translate that to the people she needed to hire. Christy was working for the mortgage division at a bank, and they needed to get more loans. She first sought to understand the sentiment of the bank’s customer base and if they had any needs. Step 1 was hosting a customer appreciation event. The customer appreciation event generated direct feedback on the bank’s processes and product offerings. Next, Christy sought to understand the bank’s target market, which was real estate agents. She thought about how to get real estate agents to use this specific mortgage broker. New real estate agents need help with marketing, so Christy got certified and began teaching marketing classes to real estate agents. All of the agents would eventually begin using the bank. “It’s just kind of understanding what’s in it for someone else…. I just…went step by step by step and built the framework….” – Christy Honeycutt The framework Christy mentions above outlined where the opportunities were for the bank (i.e. who might need their services), allowed for dividing up the work across divisions, and provided insight into the key performance indicators (KPIs) for measuring success. In many ways, Christy acted as a liaison between the bank, the real estate agents, and end customers. When seeking to hire people to do the work, Christy looked for empathetic people who were interested in helping others. Another avenue for the bank to increase the number of loans was working with first-time home buyers who might have poor credit. This would help real estate agents who needed home buyers. The bank started doing credit repair seminars to generate new leads. “I was bringing in buyers, delighting previous buyers, and then also going after the vendors that would help participate. Honestly, that model…has kind of been my two step my whole career.” – Christy Honeycutt Nick thinks Christy’s process is actually a three-step with the third being supplementing the above with the type of education which will both Christy and the audience she seeks to serve. Nick thinks this pattern will probably be repeated somewhere in her story as well. Christy says it actually does repeat. She recounts getting an AI-focused certification when this technology wave started catchin

    43 min
  4. A Special Announcement – Changing Our Release Schedule

    NOV 4

    A Special Announcement – Changing Our Release Schedule

    Original Recording Date: 11/2/2025 Expect a Change Moving Forward – The Schedule Hi everyone – thank you for being a listener. This is a brief reminder that episodes from this point forward will be releasing every 2 weeks for the time being. Life circumstances have demanded we make this change to keep producing the show. Don’t expect any changes to our content. We remain committed to serving the technology professional and helping them accelerate career progression, increase job satisfaction, and be more effective in their existing role. Thanks for coming along with us on the journey, and it will continue. Expect to hear from us every 2 weeks from this point. See you next week for another action-packed episode! If you have ideas for a topic we should explore or a guest we need to have on the show, feel free to contact us via any of the channels below. Contact the Hosts The hosts of Nerd Journey are John White and Nick Korte. E-mail: nerdjourneypodcast@gmail.com DM us on Twitter/X @NerdJourney Connect with John on LinkedIn or DM him on Twitter/X @vJourneyman Connect with Nick on LinkedIn or DM him on Twitter/X @NetworkNerd_ Leave a Comment on Your Favorite Episode on YouTube If you’ve been impacted by a layoff or need advice, check out our Layoff Resources Page. If uncertainty is getting to you, check out or Career Uncertainty Action Guide with a checklist of actions to take control during uncertain periods and AI prompts to help you think through topics like navigating a recent layoff, financial planning, or managing your mindset and being overwhelmed.

    1 min
  5. Opt In: A CEO’s Take on Becoming AI Native with Milin Desai (3/3)

    OCT 28

    Opt In: A CEO’s Take on Becoming AI Native with Milin Desai (3/3)

    What does it mean to become AI native? It’s not about using every AI tool on the market. For Milin Desai, the CEO of Sentry, it’s about becoming familiar with the tools and opting in to use the capabilities that deliver practical value. This mindset was born while Milin was the general manager of a business unit at a software company. In this role, he had to manage a profit and loss statement, learning the art of constrained resource planning and organizational adaptability. In episode 351, our final installment of the conversation, listen as Milin describes both the gravity and different intensity of the CEO’s role compared to past roles. You’ll get insight into the strategy behind enabling an entire organization to shift and become AI native, how this translates into value for customers and employees, and how the individual contributor can be a better contextual communicator when speaking to busy leaders. Stick with us until the end to understand how a set of first principles can guide our career progression if we choose to actively participate in it. Original Recording Date: 09-29-2025 Milin Desai is currently the CEO of Sentry. If you missed parts 1 and 2 of our discussion with Milin, check out Episode 349 – Expand Your Curiosity: Build, Own, and Maintain Relevance with Milin Desai (1/3) and Episode 350 – Scope and Upside: The Importance of Contextual Communication with Milin Desai (2/3). Topics – Contrasting the Role of General Manager with CEO, Embrace Practicality with New Technology, Junior Personnel and a Return to First Principles, Shifting Organizational Focus to Becoming AI Native, Contextual Communication to Leaders and Parting Thoughts 2:41 – Contrasting the Role of General Manager with CEO General managers usually own a profit and loss statement (or PNL statement). How was this different than the things Milin had previously gone through? Milin says you do have to prepare yourself for it, and his experience as part of product teams was very helpful to gain familiarity with many of the elements of the general manager role (i.e. revenue protections, investing resources in specific efforts, etc.). Things get very interesting when you are managing PNL in a constrained environment. Milin gives some insight into annual planning and the behaviors he has observed during these times. “Very rarely do people come back and say, ‘I’ve got the same org. I’m going to reshape the org, move things around, and I’m going to do these new things with the same number of people.’ I think most leaders are not very good with that philosophy.” – Milin Desai In this role Milin tells us he learned how to do planning with specific constraints in mind (i.e. stress testing as if no resources / extra people could be added), and this idea of keeping teams lean taught him about the adaptability of an organization. “I really think every organization should do that, and then, you always have the ability to go add more people…. Structurally say, ‘is this how we still want to operate?’ And we rarely do that…. I knew the numbers, the resources, and everything else. We did a lot of planning. But what I learned I needed to get better at is this constrained planning…” – Milin Desai Milin loved working as a general manager and thinking through how to optimize even if the organization didn’t get everything it wanted. “What is the hardest thing to do? To say no. What is the hardest thing for a product manager to do? Shut down a feature. What is the hardest thing for a VP of engineering to do? To shut down a product…. I’m lucky enough to have a leadership team that…thinks along those lines. We are unconstrained, but we kind of try to make sure…let’s put some artificial constraints and see what we would do different.” – Milin Desai Nick mentions this is analogous to the employee who is no longer a fit and having to say no to that person moving on with the company. What is the contrast between being a general manager of a business unit and being the CEO of an entire organization? Milin remembers some of the conversations when he was considering becoming a CEO. “Milin, are you sure you want to do this? And it was not a capability question. It was, ‘do you understand what you are signing up for?’ …It is very different. You are responsible for everything. There is no other person. There is no other excuse. There is no other system I can blame. Something goes wrong at Sentry…I am it. And I have to go to sleep every day thinking about it. I wake up every day thinking about it.” – Milin Desai, quoting a question from former boss John Martin and speaking to the contrast of being CEO compared to general manager You have to know you want to be CEO. Many people think they want to do it until they are doing it and realize how difficult it is. Milin admits being CEO has been difficult, but having a great team has been very helpful. Before taking the role, Milin spoke to his wife about it. He describes the role as “a very different intensity.” Three months into Milin being CEO of Sentry, COVID showed up. That is a challenge he never would have expected. “It’s very different to be a GM versus being a CEO. You’re using your same skills, but it’s a completely different magnitude of responsibility and impact.” – Milin Desai As a general manager of a business unit, Milin could change the trajectory of his business unit. As CEO, mistakes are much more costly. But you cannot do it in fear. In fact, for Milin, the larger impact of his role is exciting. The right partners and team around you as CEO are very important as are taking and applying lessons you previously learned. Milin continues to push himself to improve over time even after reaching the CEO level. 9:22 – Embrace Practicality with New Technology John cites technology waves like virtualization, cloud, mobile, and generative AI. With generative AI, many of us get value from it. But many people are unconvinced of the value and are even fearful it will turn into something like Skynet (a reference from the movie Terminator 2). How does Milin approach people with this mindset? Milin is practical with his approach to technology. “The unconstrained view of what AI could do…we have seen it in movies already. So, I think the unconstrained aspect of this is what we can imagine or maybe even worse…. You can almost think about that and worry and not participate and be on the other side if that happens…. Or, just practically, on a day-to-day basis, figure out what aspects you want to opt in. So, I’m more in that camp…. On the AI front, just think about how it could practically help you on a day-to-day basis versus trying to worry too much about all the aspects, some of which you absolutely don’t even control…. I think it will bring productivity in ways that we don’t even know.” – Milin Desai For example, Milin doesn’t have a voice assistant, didn’t find them useful, and did not opt in. If you’re worried about supporting a bigger cause, Milin tells us that bigger cause is going to happen irrespective of us supporting it. Instead, we should think about how to practically use AI tools and become an active voice in it. Milin tells us his wife just started using ChatGPT and loves it. He asked her the value question on whether it was worth paying for it vs. staying on the free tier after she talked about how much it helped. She agreed that it was worth the money. Milin cites the potential for productivity gains we don’t even know or understand yet. For example, imagine a robot doing laundry for you so you can do something else. Milin thinks there will be some significant value points with robotics and AI. He’s excited at the potential for optimizing daily tasks that this could bring. “Just be practical in how you’re using it and how it will bring value to your life, and the ones that you don’t find valuable, don’t do it. I don’t try every AI tool…. But the things I care about, I lean in.” – Milin Desai We don’t control the unconstrained and should not worry about it according to Milin, but we can be a positive participant in this (AI) by participating in communities that serve the greater good in this area. Milin says the idea of an AI bubble bursting will be determined over time, but transformation is happening. There are business use cases in vertical industries for AI (i.e. for medical transcribing). It’s not just people doing personal research at home, for example. The intersection of AI and robots will be an exceptional thing. We have to figure out our place in all of this, which is a harder question. “I fundamentally believe you will still need engineers. You will still need certain things. But certain functions are getting automated…. You’re going to have to figure out where is the new value being created and how…you participate in the new value system.” – Milin Desai This comes back to curiosity, asking good questions, listening, watching for where things are moving, etc. We can apply those same principles to the field of AI. Milin tells us almost every company out there is willing to let you explore and learn when it comes to AI (which means. At Sentry, people are encouraged to use the tools they want to become “AI native.” “Leverage that. Lean into it. Don’t shy away from it.” – Milin Desai, on utilizing your job role and resources to learn AI tooling and the value it can provide 15:07 – Junior Personnel and a Return to First Principles Nick wonders how junior technology personnel can develop the expertise of someone who is more senior when the senior folks developed their expertise before AI existed? Can giving a junior employee AI tooling help them gain that same level of expertise? Milin says this is about getting more “at bats.” Someone could read all about running a company or working with

    36 min
  6. Scope and Upside: The Importance of Contextual Communication with Milin Desai (2/3)

    OCT 21

    Scope and Upside: The Importance of Contextual Communication with Milin Desai (2/3)

    When we use a generative AI tool, providing more context can often lead to better output. What if we could apply this to our communication with other humans? Milin Desai, the CEO of Sentry, says contextualizing communication will change the way you operate. This week in episode 350, we’ll follow Milin’s story of changing companies and pursuing different levels of leadership. Listen closely to learn about the importance and impact of active listening, how practice with written communication can help us develop a clearer narrative, the skills needed in higher levels of leadership, and how we can evaluate new opportunities through the lens of scope and upside. Original Recording Date: 09-29-2025 Milin Desai is currently the CEO of Sentry. If you missed part 1 of our discussion with Milin, check out Episode 349 – Expand Your Curiosity: Build, Own, and Maintain Relevance with Milin Desai (1/3). Topics – Customer Discovery and Active Listening, Contextual Communication and Iterating on a Narrative, Scope and Upside, Necessary Skills at Different Leadership Levels, Enabling Active Participation 2:49 – Customer Discovery and Active Listening What Milin said without stating it explicitly was that we need to do a better job of asking people more questions to understand where they are coming from and what they care about. This is what Nick refers to as doing discovery, and it applies to the person working a ticket in IT just as much as the product leader or sales engineer working with a customer. “AI is best when given the best context, so contextualize every conversation. And if you contextualize every conversation, it will change how you operate.” – Milin Desai Milin gives the example of a support technician doing the work to close a ticket for someone but then taking a proactive step to let the submitter know there are other related issues you could help resolve. He classifies this as the “extra step” that some people just do without being asked. Very few people are self-aware and like to rate themselves as the best at different things. “That self-assessment is super important…. That extra juice that people are looking for is that contextualization, that personalization, that dot connecting…that is what will change you. And that comes with being curious, asking the questions, listening…active listening.” – Milin Desai Milin says active listening is difficult for him, but it’s something he has become better at over time. John says sometimes the question a person asks is not the question that person wants the answer to. It’s not up to us to just answer the question that was asked. It’s up to us to go the extra mile and ask questions to get more of the context. Milin shares an anecdote for people in customer-facing roles. Validation that a product pitch is resonating with a customer comes from active listening and questions. But there’s even more. “But you forgot to ask a simple question…in the next six months, if you had a dollar to spend, would you spend it on this? We forget to ask the most important question. If I’m going to build it, will you use it? Will you buy it?” – Milin Desai Without asking the above questions, product teams may relay that feedback from a customer was nothing but positive and not understand why product activation numbers are low. We need to figure out why a customer would use a product or feature rather than assuming they will use it when it is pitched / suggested to them. Be intentional about understanding the customer’s priority as well. “The same principles apply to development and everything else in our lives too. If you only had an hour a day, what would you do with it? Start thinking that way, and it makes things very, very simple.” – Milin Desai Nick says we could also ask about priority when pitching an internal project idea to management. Would someone approve the project in the next six months? John suggests asking how far out in someone’s priority list a project would be. What if your project idea or the product you are pitching is not on someone’s priority list? Should you just stop there? At this point with time left in a meeting you have options. Asking to tell someone what you are building is a mistake, and so is just ending the meeting. “What if you spend the next 5 minutes asking, ‘what is the most important things you’re thinking through?’ Because yes, it may not be the current thing you are doing, but again, coming back to knowing what other people in the company are doing, it could be connected to another initiative, another project, another product that the team is building. So, coming back to the same curiosity we talked about, and knowing what’s happening around you, you may find something. Or you may just learn…. But you came ahead as a high IQ individual who is saving them time, who cares about them more than they care about selling a product.” – Milin Desai It’s important that we learn to pause in this way to gain understanding. Asking someone what they feel is important or what their priorities are after they’ve said something is not a priority is an acknowledgement that what you brought them isn’t relevant. Learning more about the priorities of your audience may bring about an opportunity for a different group / team if you’re plugged into what is happening in other parts of your organization. One option is nothing comes of it, and you learn something. Nick says once we learn what someone thinks is important, we might get a much better idea than what we originally came to the meeting with. 9:00 – Contextual Communication and Iterating on a Narrative John says this goes back to empathizing with the customer and living in their shoes. Part of this job is to collect customer priorities and report it back to your organization. This information might indicate a product a company is building does not solve the right customer problems or doesn’t align with customer priority. From a career perspective, people might think they need to do all of this alone – get on the customer calls, understand what customers want, and synthesize it to relay to other teams. When Milin was a product manager, he started pulling in other team members to be on customer calls with him. This began when Milin was at Riverbed, but Milin tells us he leveraged it much more during his time at VMware. “The interpretation of that conversation can be very different…. After that call is finished, you ask for their interpretation. Did they have happy ears? Did you have happy ears? But more importantly you as a team get on the same page about the opportunity.” – Milin Desai Milin is speaking about promoting collaboration between product managers and engineering teams by ensuring the engineering team members have access to the same set of information. Getting them to hear information straight from a customer helps promote alignment better than receiving feedback only via the product manager who spoke to the customer. Being part of the live conversation is also better than only having access to the recording. Letting other members of your team that you work closely with participate along with you is extremely important according to Milin. You don’t need to do it alone. “So, I think that participation is really important, and the second most important thing in any career progression, anything from non-tech or tech, is communication…contextual communication…. Talking to a VP versus an EVP versus a CRO…everyone is different. We as humans don’t spend enough time on contextual communication in our personal or professional lives. And I would say the single biggest thing I see people make a mistake on is not invest in communication, written form communication….” – Milin Desai If communicating to an engineering team, have them feel they were in that conversation. Give them a synthesis of the problems you talked about and what happened as a result. Storytelling and communication are important to provide your perspective on what happened to others. We can write our thoughts down and then iterate on them. When the thoughts are fully formed, we can share them with a group. Spend time writing down your thoughts, and contextualize them for the audience with which you are sharing them. When we write down our thoughts in draft form, Milin says it should feel natural and not take a lot of time. The story arc can be cleaned up as a next pass / next iteration. John mentions there is a difference between a transient idea and something you take the time to articulate through writing. The latter is something you can understand and have a conversation with others about. John talks about writing as something that enables fully formed thoughts and the evolution of those thoughts. Milin had the opportunity to work for Marin Casado (founder Nicira), and Martin encouraged people to write things down because “you don’t think in PowerPoints.” Milin has developed a habit of writing over time. When he gets an idea, even if it is sitting on a train, he might write it down and save it in his e-mail drafts folder to get it out of his head. Milin will then come back to it later (a day, a week, etc.) to refine it and then share with a larger audience. Martin Casado also encouraged people to think like a story. “The art of storytelling allows you to bring a point of view to the world.” – Milin Desai Nick says this idea of writing, letting it sit for a time, and coming back to refine what you wrote sounds like a great way to prepare for scenario-based interviews. Milin shares some of the feedback he gives people who have completed an internship at Sentry. “Make sure you have a narrative around this. If you choose not to come back to Sentry for a full-time job, when somebody asks you what you did, you have a compelling narrative around what happened and what you learned…. Y

    35 min
  7. Expand Your Curiosity: Build, Own, and Maintain Relevance with Milin Desai (1/3)

    OCT 14

    Expand Your Curiosity: Build, Own, and Maintain Relevance with Milin Desai (1/3)

    How curious do you think you are at work? Take a second to rate yourself. After today’s conversation with guest Milin Desai, you’re going to want to dial that curiosity up a notch. Milin is currently the CEO of Sentry, and one of the keys to his success from the very beginning was allowing the scope of his curiosity to expand over time…beyond specific projects and even beyond his job role. Perhaps without realizing it, Milin was doing the work to build and maintain professional relevance. Listen closely in episode 349 as we follow Milin from his early days as a computer science student through roles as a QA tester and software developer all the way into technical marketing. You’ll hear advice for expanding your own curiosity inside your current company, ways you can provide value to a mentor, and an empathetic approach to customer conversations that can help you build relevance and develop a strong reputation. Original Recording Date: 09-29-2025 Topics – Meet Milin Desai, A Unique Trait, Internships and Job Interviews, Curiosity and the Importance of Control, Mentorship as a Stream of Active Conversations, Beyond the Scope, Becoming Relevant in Something Different 2:40 – Meet Milin Desai Milin Desai is currently the CEO of Sentry. Sentry helps teams find where code is broken in production and helps them fix it fast, and with AI, fixing it faster is greatly accelerated. 3:15 – A Unique Trait Around 7th or 8th grade Milin recognized how much he enjoyed math and science in school. Milin had an affinity for STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics). Milin cites his dad, a mechanical and electrical engineer, as a big influence. Going into 10th grade, Milin thought he would pursue mechanical engineering. Milin’s cousin Rajiv (who had worked for NASA) would come visit and began showing Milin some of the work he was doing. This is the point at which “everything changed” for Milin, and he decided to pursue computer engineering / computer science. Milin also tells us he built hundreds of websites in India during the time of dial up modems. Milin pursued an undergraduate degree at a school in Mumbai, but his family knew he wanted to come to the United States. Milin came to the United States in 1999 and attended USC (University of Southern California) to purse a master’s degree. The potential for opportunity and the vastness of the United States captivated Milin. Did Milin ever ask Rajiv what he should study, or did he naturally gravitate toward those areas? Rajiv would have conversations with Milina and show him the work he was doing. Milin started working for Rajiv while pursuing his undergraduate degree. He was building websites for companies in India. The building of the websites was interesting to Milin, but he was also doing the selling part. Milin had to make a pitch to companies explaining what a website could do for them, share the price, and collect the check if they said yes. “Not only did he influence me in kind of figuring out…this is where the opportunity is and inspire me…but he also went on to tell me that I have a unique trait where I can talk business tech selling, and I know the technology part. And I can bridge the two worlds. He was one of the early people to recommend that in the long run I may want to think about the business side or…the entrepreneurship side of things when it comes to tech, not just the programming or the systems side of things. And he in fact felt my combo made me more relevant…in that lane versus just staying a programmer.” – Milin Desai Rajiv gave Milin these cues early on in addition to inspiring him to do the work. As people who work in sales engineering today, John and Nick agree that the combination of technology and business value is very valuable. 7:49 – Internships and Job Interviews Milin began working for Veritas after he finished his master’s program as an entry-level software engineer. Pursuing an advanced degree can give you the chance to pursue internships, and Milin had a family friend working at Veritas who introduced him to the hiring manager for a quality assurance (or QA) internship. After successfully getting the internship at Veritas, Milin was doing QA for software-defined storage volume management. Milin’s work during the internship led to a full-time offer from Veritas upon his graduation. “The first break is always hard, by the way, to get. I see it even to this day with folks coming out of school. Not everyone…lands in the perfect opportunity right away, and the dots need to be connected. I’ve been fortunate enough to have people open doors and open opportunities…. But I remember being rejected a lot.” – Milin Desai Milin tells us he struggled in job interviews as a new graduate. Many of his friends from school had multiple job offers from these conversations, and compared to them, Milin had much less success getting offers outside of the one from Veritas. From a timing perspective, this was around the time of the market crash following the events of September 11, 2001. “Even timing-wise, the difference between graduating with your master’s degree a year and a half versus 2 years. That six months made all the difference. A little luck, a little timing, and a lot of support.” – Milin Desai Did the degree program Milin pursued prepare students for job interviews at all? Milin tells us that a school doesn’t really prepare you for the conversation you have in an interview. While you do learn deep systems concepts in school, for example, the interview questions are often situational. “You definitely use those concepts, but you’re never in that setup until you go through that process. And I think interviewing is a little bit of an art form. Some folks are really good at it, and some folks even study it. There is some element of that. But I think the school prepares you with fundamentals. It doesn’t necessarily prepare you for that interview per se, and you have to kind of connect the dots…. You can prepare for it. Some people are just naturally good at it, and some people like me just suck at it.” – Milin Desai Milin feels interviewing is sort of an art form. You can work to prepare yourself Did Milin think of interviews as somewhat similar to pitching a company on a website? The selling part is easy according to Milin. In this motion you are telling a story, bringing a problem statement, and delivering value. It’s less about solving some kind of algorithm but rather trying to figure out if what you have to offer will address someone’s pain point. Milin emphasizes the storytelling element of the sales process and the collaborative problem solving you’re doing with someone. It’s more of a conversation. Selling is not about getting into an extreme level of detail like a technical interview can be. Someone could easily make a mistake in a technical interview when describing a specific step in the process and get off track. People can feel a great deal of pressure when in a job interview. Milin feels job interviews are much more difficult than a business conversation. The latter is about human connection and building rapport with the other person. Milin tells us his interview style is more about building human connections than testing the limits of a person’s technical depth. John mentions the difficulty in choosing a technical interview style that is well suited for effectively evaluating multiple job candidates. Does having a portfolio of code that is applicable to the role help with this? John also brings up LeetCode style interviews if you’d like to read more about them. Milin says quickly assessing a fit can be a challenge. It can be a combination of skills and experiences with other things layered on top. Milin says the first interview might be more focused on solving some basic elements. But it’s helpful if a candidate can talk about and contextualize other work they have done (like working on an open-source project, for example). "But to get in, there has to be a common baseline, a language, a form…. " – Milin Desai, on early round interviews If interviews are challenging for you as they have been for Milin, you have to work through them over time. “In the later stages what I would tell you is what is most attractive is people who have been from what I call 0 to 1 project where they start something are through the end. The end is not shipping actually. Shipping is just an intermediate point. End is adoption and the scaling and all of those elements. And to be through that journey 1, 2, 3 times is interesting to almost every organization out there…because through that you learn a sense of people, ownership, outcomes.” – Milin Desai Early on the baseline is some kind of entry test. When looking for people with more experience, interviewers will ask about projects people have written about on their resume or elsewhere and how they solved problems within those projects. At this point, the portfolio becomes more interesting and can help you get an opportunity. We emphasize the importance of a portfolio of projects and not just a portfolio of code. 16:16 – Curiosity and the Importance of Control How did the role Milin had at Veritas shape the rest of his career? Milin says this was his first job and was an amazing experience that has filled him with fond memories of that time. Milin emphasizes the importance of help from others during the course of his career. The Veritas experience gave Milin the chance to work with great people, but he also found mentors within his area at the time (software volume management). Milin mentions a mentor named Mark who remains a dear friend to this day. “He kind of took me under his wing and explained stuff and was just there. And he didn’t need to do that…. Please, when somebody…experienced takes the time to go that extra mile you make sure you better

    46 min
  8. Organizational Flattening: Intentionally Model Behaviors to Build the Culture You Want (2/2)

    OCT 7

    Organizational Flattening: Intentionally Model Behaviors to Build the Culture You Want (2/2)

    As managers inherit larger teams inside flatter organizations, we might immediately point out the challenges. But what about opportunities? Despite the trend, those who seek to lead (in a management capacity or otherwise) have the chance to intentionally build a better culture. We pulled in former guests Shailvi Wakhlu, Neil Thompson, and Abby Clobridge in a roundtable format to get actionable strategies. In episode 348, we present actionable strategies for managers and individual contributors to thrive in this new environment. Listen closely to understand the importance of improving one’s communication skills, the unique opportunity and impact of the player coach / team lead, the critical elements of a manager’s role, and advice for job seekers in a tough market. Original Recording Date: 09-27-2025 Topics – Framing Part 2 of Our Discussion, Opportunity for the Player Coach, Modeling the Benefits of Improved Communication Skills, Management Support of Strong Communicators, Individual Contributors and Communication, Succeeding as a Manager of a Large Team, The Culture of Large Teams, Advice for Job Seekers in a Tough Market, In Closing 1:01 – Framing Part 2 of Our Discussion Last week in Episode 347 – Organizational Flattening: Understanding the Trend, Career Challenges, and Opportunities (1/2), we introduced a slightly different format that we’re continuing this week based on an industry trend. The trend of organizational flattening in our industry has been top of mind for us. We’re seeing the continued layoffs in tech often times result in fewer management layers and an increase in the number of people reporting to a single manager. This topic is too big and has too many angles for a single conversation. We wanted to bring together multiple expert perspectives on this issue in a single episode. We’ve reached out to a handful of former guests and sent them specific questions on this topic. Those guests were kind enough to record their answers and send them back to us. Consider this a Nerd Journey roundtable or collection of hot takes from trusted voices. Our goal is to amplify their advice and provide a diverse set of strategies for navigating this landscape. In the first episode (last week), we explored the trend of flatter organizations and the consequences for your career path and team culture. This week in part 2 we will focus on actionable insights for thriving in this environment. Here’s the full set of episode links we will share throughout the conversation if you would like to hear more from one of the former guests who participated: Shailvi Wakhlu Episode 210 – A Collection of Ambiguous Experiments with Shailvi Wakhlu (1/2) Episode 211 – Structure the Levels of Contribution with Shailvi Wakhlu (2/2) Self-Advocacy: Your Guide to Getting What You Deserve at Work by Shailvi Wakhlu A special 15% off link for Nerd Journey listeners to Shailvi’s self-advocacy course can be found here. Neil Thompson Episode 193 – Communication for Specialists with Neil Thompson (1/2) Episode 194 – Question Askers and Problem Solvers with Neil Thompson (2/2) Teach the Geek YouTube Channel Abby Clobridge Episode 292 – Library Science: Information Architecture and the Synthesis of Details with Abby Clobridge (1/2) Episode 293 – Enterprise Knowledge Management: A Consultative Approach to Solving the Right Problems with Abby Clobridge (2/2) 1:42 – Opportunity for the Player Coach We’ll start by discussing the opportunity of being a player coach (another way we often reference the team lead or tech lead role). Shailvi Wakhlu is a leadership speaker and data consultant with experience building and leading large organizations, including structuring of job levels for career paths. We spoke to her in episodes 210 and 211 She’s also the author of Self-Advocacy: Your Guide to Getting What You Deserve at Work. Our question for Shailvi: As organizations flatten and there are less manager roles, does this create an opportunity for people to become a technical lead or team lead to help the manager scale? We would love to hear any perspective you have on how the team lead / tech lead (i.e. player coach type role) changes as a result of the org changes. Even without the trend of flattening or decreasing the number of managers, there has consistently been an opportunity for people to demonstrate the mindset of group leadership. Someone could be a project lead, a team lead, or a technical lead. The technical lead focuses more on technical standards to which a team needs to adhere. “I think anything that you do that helps your manager manage the team, scale the team, grow the output, or just have better focus…has always been a good way to get your foot in the door for those type of roles in the future.” – Shailvi Wakhlu Shailvi remembers working at companies where several people wanted to someday get into a management role. Even in times of heavy hiring, there is no way to accommodate everyone who wants to eventually do this. People stepping into those lead roles would have a leg up on other candidates for future management roles. “If I see somebody is doing a fantastic job of managing a project, I know that there is a subset of manager responsibilities that they’re able to handle. If I see them doing team events…if I see them stepping up on technical leadership, defining standards…all of these things kind of point to that same larger skillset. And I always encourage that even if there is no formal capacity in which you can do this, even if you create your own opportunity and showcase that…this is a space where I see our team could improve…even without the manager title I think you have plenty of options to contribute at that stage…and definitely in this type of a market where there are less manager roles.” – Shailvi Wakhlu Shailvi believes the job market will bounce back, and when it does, there will not be enough people who have been managers and have done things like performance management, skill assessment, and hiring. People who can showcase they have some of this experience and the right mindset have a good start toward landing a management role. Before Shailvi was a manager, she was the hiring lead on her team of 2 people. Shailvi defined the standards (measurements, rubrics, etc.) for the interview process. She tells us doing this made it far easier to transition into a full-time manager role. 5:25 – Modeling the Benefits of Improved Communication Skills We wanted a perspective on communication in this current climate and reached out to a former guest with expertise in this area. Neil Thompson is the founder of Teach the Geek, an organization that helps technical professionals in STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) improve their public speaking and presentation skills. He’s also the host of the Teach the Geek Podcast. We originally spoke to Neil in episodes 193 and 194. Here’s what we asked Neil: How do you think team leads or technical leads (sort of that player coach role) play into the development of strong communicators? Where do they help people where managers cannot? Players (or individual contributors on a team) don’t see themselves as managers and would not be modeling themselves after managers. A player coach is way closer to each member of the team’s current role than a manager. Player coaches who are adept at communicating well can model these skills for other members of technical staff and educate them on the benefits (and potential opportunities) of improving their communication skills. Neil points out it could very well be a player coach was moved into that role because of their communication skills. Technical staff members are far more likely to want to invest in improving their communication skills once they see and understand the benefits of doing so (thanks to the modeling of player coaches). 7:09 – Management Support of Strong Communicators Another question we had for Neil: "What challenges will managers face trying to develop good communicators when their team is huge, and what can they do to be more effective when this happens? With a large team, one challenge will be getting buy-in from all team members on the idea of improving their speaking skills. Assuming this is the case within your organization…Neil encourages leaders to let their direct reports know that improving speaking skills increases visibility within the organization, and opportunities tend to come to those with greater visibility. Technical people will not want to be passed over for opportunities based on something they can control, especially if they recognize the reasons others have been given new opportunities was due to improved communication skills. And they would certainly be motivated to improve communication with decision makers who can give them opportunity. As part of his work at Teach the Geek, Neil encourages companies to develop speaker training programs for developing technical staff members. One challenge to this approach is getting technical staff to agree on the priorities of this kind of training program. Neil suggests sending out a survey to technical staff members to make sure this is well understood. Technical staff may want to understand how to better engage an audience, get ideas for balancing technical depth and clarity, ways to minimize the use of jargon, etc. If you do take a survey of technical staff, incorporate at least the top 3 priorities as indicated by survey results into a speaker training program. 9:07 – Individual Contributors and Communication We also wanted to know from Neil: How can the individual contributor develop those strong communication skills to build rapport and communicate the value of their work to a busy leader? If technical staff members have gone through a speaker training program like was mentioned earlier, they will want to look for opportunit

    21 min
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Are you a technology professional unsatisfied with your current role? Looking for a resource to help understand changing job functions, changing organizations, or gaining recognition and progression? The Nerd Journey podcast helps explore alternative roles, increase job satisfaction, and accelerate career progression. Each week, we uncover patterns of technical career progression by dissecting careers of guests and discussing different job roles they’ve held, or discussing relevant career topics. We’ve interviewed people in IT operations, sales engineering, technical marketing, product management, people management, network engineering, cybersecurity, software development, entrepreneurs, and more. We also discuss improving job satisfaction and accelerating career growth. We are John White and Nick Korte, two technologists with experience in IT operations and sales engineering who started this podcast in 2018. We release on Tuesdays, and can be found at https://nerd-journey.com.

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