Andrew Jacobs joins the pod to explore what L&D is really for and why the profession's identity has to shift from producing courses to engineering performance. Drawing on a career that spans retail banking, the fire service, retail and local and central government, Andrew explains why capability depends as much on the organisation's capacity to apply learning as on the ability L&D builds and why AI has made that conversation urgent. From there, he unpacks his shopkeeper to engineer idea and his view that L&D is like Mexican food, the same ingredients folded differently, before making the case for why people now build their own burrito and L&D's role is to help them do it better. He then turns to impact, setting out the difference between counting, measuring and evaluating, why a performance baseline matters, and how asking "help me understand" can change the conversation with the business, with a memorable example involving sickness absence and extendable lanyards. Along the way, he discusses podcasting as a way of connecting people and surfacing the insight inside an organisation, the 50 Big Ideas to Change L&D, and the health of the profession today. He closes with why he won't give advice without understanding someone's context, and, in a bonus segment, why L&D should respond to uncertainty by agreeing principles rather than writing a strategy. It's a thoughtful conversation for anyone in L&D who wants to move from taking orders to solving problems. Take your L&D to the next level Take advantage of thousands of hours of analysis. Hundreds of conversations with industry innovators and 25+ years of hands-on global L&D leadership. It's all distilled into one framework to help you level up L&D. Access the L&D Maturity Model here - https://360learning.com/maturity-model KEY TAKEAWAYS From Shopkeeper to Engineer: L&D often acts as a shopkeeper, taking orders for courses and delivering them without questioning the root cause. To drive real change, L&D professionals must become performance engineers who step back, understand the business problem, and build systemic solutions. L&D is like Mexican Food: Much of what the learning profession produces uses the exact same ingredients, just folded and packaged differently—like a burrito versus a fajita. Rebranding basic management training as leadership development without changing the core approach fails to solve actual business needs. The Capacity Gap: L&D is highly skilled at addressing ability through courses and workshops, but it consistently fails to address organizational capacity. True capability requires building the relationships, structures, systems, and technologies that allow employees to apply what they learn. Measure Outcomes, Not Inputs: The profession needs to stop measuring input data like attendance, course completions, and test scores. True evaluation requires establishing a baseline of current performance, defining the target outcome with stakeholders, and measuring the actual shift in business results. BEST MOMENTS "We can do ability until we're blue in the face. Courses, classes, workshops, brilliant, design and materials and content. What we fail to work within is the capacity part of capability within the organization." "L&D's like Mexican food. We do this all the time... it's the same ingredients but folded differently and cooked in the oven." "We are arguing about the seat at the table so much that we're forgetting that maybe the table won't exist anymore." "The first step you take as a crew manager is backwards. And that's what L&D needs to do. When someone says, we've got a fire, I need some help, can you do a course for me? What we should do is go, step back, absolutely, what's the problem? And start talking in terms of performance within the business." Andrew Jacobs Bio Andrew Jacobs is the Learning Principal for Llarn Learning, known for innovative thinking about learning, training and technology. He has significant experience across a range of roles in learning, training, talent and people development, gained across public and private sector industries, most recently in central government with HMRC and DHSC. Andrew has a specific understanding of developing online and digital solutions for learning, social profile and engagement. He is a Fellow of the Learning Performance Institute (LPI) and a CIPD Leader in Learning. He received the Internet Time Alliance award for his work on informal learning in July 2020 and was highly commended at the CIPD People Management Awards in 2021. He blogs daily at www.lostanddesperate.com and produces the podcast Women Talking About Learning. You can contact or follow Andrew via the following:Blog: https://www.lostanddesperate.comPodcast: https://womentalkaboutlearning.podbean.com/ Website: https://llarn.com/ Book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Proving-Impact-Measure-effectiveness-results-ebook/dp/B0D8LJ3VXV/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=AEojL&content-id=amzn1.sym.5e81eabe-938d-4936-a067-ca199f0f9913&pf_rd_p=5e81eabe-938d-4936-a067-ca199f0f9913&pf_rd_r=262-7492473-4010600&pd_rd_wg=2RTPW&pd_rd_r=5cf75a4d-7716-490d-8b77-65952af5474c VALUABLE RESOURCES The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523 L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home ABOUT THE HOST David James David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa. As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D. CONTACT METHOD Twitter: https://twitter.com/davidinlearning LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective Blog: https://360learning.com/blog This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/
