Energy Thinks with Tisha Schuller

Tisha Schuller

tishaschuller.substack.com

  1. Jun 18

    The Ride You Can’t Get Off

    This solo pod continues the series on the Arc of Outrage, the predictable and unavoidable opposition cycle that data centers are facing. What you’ll get in this solo episode of Energy Thinks The energy industry has been here before. I warned data center proponents to stop calling the opposition they are facing “misinformation.” The problem is that data centers are now on the Arc of Outrage. I watched this happen during the fracking wars, when isolated local concerns became organized opposition and organized opposition became a national movement. The specifics change, but the pattern is familiar. The Arc for data centers is particularly steep because they are evoking a basket of concerns, all at once: energy affordability, grid reliability, AI writ large, local control, and the fear that too much is being built too fast. This episode is not about avoiding the Arc. You cannot. It is about understanding where you are on it, what is coming next, and how to move through it with more skill. In this solo episode, you’ll hear me think through: * What the Arc of Outrage looks like: the Before Times, the phases, and what comes after * Why the Arc cannot be avoided, even by good companies with good projects * Why your job is to flatten the Arc (not avoid it) * Why the winners will be the companies that get real early Here’s a taste of what you’ll get: On skipping the Arc: “You cannot avoid it. There is no skirting the arc of outrage. There is no off-ramp. This is not a lovely little freeway. This is the Disney ride you didn’t mean to get on that you cannot get off until it’s over.” On whom data center developers need on their team: “If you can find a half dozen people who lived through the fracking wars, particularly in a blue jurisdiction, you are going to have a really good ally to help you get through this.” On the actual job in front of companies: “Your job is to soften and shorten the Arc for your project and your company.” On what leaders should expect: “Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. But if you know that, you can manage it. Set realistic expectations: with your leadership, with your investors, with your stakeholders, with your customers.” Bonus content for this episode My latest book: The Myth and The Moment Earlier installments in this series: The Arc of Outrage Has Come for Data Centers and Stop Calling It Data Center Misinformation. Two recent podcasts: “What You Don’t Know About Community Buy-In” with Jonathan Smith and “Jim Kerr on Your Generational Opportunity.” Watch on YouTube or listen on Substack What to do next in The Moment Preparing for the Arc of Outrage? Reach out to request a briefing. Can you please take a moment to give Energy Thinks a five-star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts? If this was this forwarded to you, please subscribe here. Hit the heart button below—it helps others find our work! Keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle, Tisha Get full access to Both of These Things Are True at tishaschuller.substack.com/subscribe

    32 min

  2. Jun 4

    What You Don’t Know About Community Buy-In

    What you’ll get in this episode of Energy Thinks This week, I sit down with Jonathan Smith, founder and principal of Mobilis Works, an advisory practice to the Problem Solvers on policy innovation, economic competitiveness, and civic capacity, for one of the most thoughtful conversations I’ve had about what it actually takes to move from policy ideas to real-world implementation. Jonathan has spent his career at the intersection of Congress, state government, economic development, workforce strategy, and coalition building. And this conversation gets into one of the questions I’ve been obsessing over lately: How do we help the Problem Solvers actually solve problems? In this episode, we discuss: * Why on-the-ground implementation is the most important part of the policy process * How communities became stuck chasing grants instead of building long-term investment readiness * What project developers, policymakers, and industry leaders misunderstand about community buy-in * Why people support projects when they believe they are helping design their community’s future * Why opposition is not a “facts” problem but an agency problem Why Jonathan Smith? Jonathan Smith has spent his career betwixt and between ambitious policy ideas and on-the-ground reality. He most recently led Michigan’s effort to help communities, workers and businesses adapt to changes in the auto and energy sectors. What struck me most about Jonathan is that he doesn’t talk about this abstract space in abstract terms. He focuses on the mechanics of getting things done: building trust, developing local capacity, understanding trade-offs, and creating conditions where communities can shape their own future instead of simply reacting to someone else’s plans. Some of Jonathan’s insights On the key ingredient to successful policy implementation: “You have to be grounded in reality. This has to work for the people it’s supposed to work for. You can’t get bogged down in the ideology or the idealistic version of it. What matters is whether there’s real impact and real outcomes.” On getting communities to yes: “All communities really have right now is the ability to say no. But if you give them the ability to design their own future, you will see a huge difference in the way these projects land. If we can build more proactivity at the community level, now the community is choosing what projects to bring in rather than the other way around.” On the secret sauce to coalition building: “You can solve lots of different problems with a single solution. The key is asking: Am I actually solving your problem with this?” On what the Problem Solver and project developer must understand: “Most people don’t have super-strong feelings about a lot of this policy stuff. What they care about is: Do they live in a community they feel safe in? Are they happy with their neighbors and their day-to-day lives? Do they have a job that doesn’t just provide a paycheck, but provides dignity and a sense of accomplishment? We have to think about policy from their point of view—because if people see it as prioritizing somebody else’s agenda over theirs, they don’t see themselves in it. You’re talking past people.” Bonus content! Watch the episode on YouTube or listen to the podcast on Substack. My most recent Both True, “Arc of Outrage,” on why communities do not experience infrastructure fights as technical disputes alone. My recent podcast episodes “Jim Kerr on Your Generational Opportunity,” “Energy Abundance Is Non-Negotiable. Responsibility Is, Too.,” and “Climate Plans Get Punched in the Face,” with California PUC Commissioner Matt Baker. Order your copy of The Myth and The Moment: From Polarization to Progress in the New Energy Landscape. What to do next in The Moment * Enjoying The Myth and The Moment? Leave a review to help others find it. * If this email was forwarded to you, please subscribe here. To relationships forged in the fire,Tisha Get full access to Both of These Things Are True at tishaschuller.substack.com/subscribe

    44 min

  3. May 21

    Jim Kerr on Your Generational Opportunity

    What you’ll get in this episode of Energy Thinks This week, I sit down with Jim Kerr, chairman, president, and CEO of Southern Company Gas, for a conversation about what happens when the realities of physics, economics, and historically high energy demand collide with The Myth of an Easy Energy Transition. Jim would be humble and interesting while talking to a tree stump. But lucky for you, he is even more engaging with me. A few things you’ll hear us discuss: * Why “the laws of physics and economics are undefeated” when it comes to our energy system * The growing pressure on the natural gas and electric systems as demand rises * How leaders can move beyond picking winners and losers in energy debates * Why humility and honesty matter in conversations about energy and climate We agree: Easy narratives about the energy transition are giving way to mature, nuanced conversations about trade-offs. Why Jim Kerr? Before leading Southern Company Gas, Jim served as a utility commissioner in North Carolina—which means he understands energy not just from the perspective of operations and infrastructure, but also from the perspective of public accountability. He argues for natural gas, reliability, and infrastructure investment while also acknowledging trade-offs, environmental concerns, and the importance of public trust. At a moment when so many conversations about energy devolve into ideological battles, Jim’s uncommon sense of leadership, stewardship, and service elevates the conversation. Some of Jim’s insights: On the iron laws and intellectual humility: “This is a business that is ultimately governed by the laws of physics and economics. ... We can wish that they were different, but they’re not going to change. The laws of physics and economics are undefeated. And I think if we will humble ourselves, engage, and listen to each other … we can avoid the certitude that ‘I know the answer, and my answer is unassailably the correct answer.’” On what customers know about energy complexity: “Fundamentally, folks want an energy system that is as clean, as reliable, as affordable, and as safe as possible. But people also understand there’s a balance to those things—that there are trade-offs inherent in the system.” Bring on the permitting reform! “The system that we were increasingly reliant on had really been underinvested in fundamentally. … There is no substitute for more fit-for-purpose infrastructure being built. So we need permitting reform.” On why this moment matters: “I do think we’re at the dawn of a new day of abundance, not scarcity, multiple opportunities, not sort of certitude about … a silver bullet. … I think the next couple of decades are truly an opportunity that will be generational.” Bonus content! Bio: Jim Kerr is chairman, president, and CEO of Southern Company Gas, one of the nation’s largest natural gas utilities serving more than 4 million customers across the country. Before joining Southern Company in 2014, he served for eight years on the North Carolina Utilities Commission and was president of the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners. Kerr previously practiced energy law and policy at McGuireWoods, where he focused on energy regulation, transactions, and infrastructure development. Today, he is a leading voice on energy reliability, natural gas–electric coordination, and the infrastructure needed to meet growing U.S. energy demand. Watch the episode on YouTube or listen to the podcast on Substack to hear Jim and me discuss The Myth and The Moment. National Petroleum Council’s Report Reliable Energy: Delivering on the Promise of Gas-Electric Coordination. My recent podcast episodes “Don’t Take the Bait,” “Energy Abundance Is Non-Negotiable. Responsibility Is, Too.,” and “Climate Plans Get Punched in the Face,” with California PUC Commissioner Matt Baker. Order your copy of The Myth and The Moment: From Polarization to Progress in the New Energy Landscape. What to do next in The Moment * Email us and we’ll help you with your physics homework. * Enjoying The Myth and The Moment? Leave a review to help others find it. * If this email was forwarded to you, please subscribe here. To certitude with a splash of humility,Tisha Get full access to Both of These Things Are True at tishaschuller.substack.com/subscribe

    41 min

  4. May 7

    Don’t Take the Bait

    What you’ll get in this solo episode of Energy Thinks In last week’s Both True, I wrote about a shift I’m watching closely: climate priorities being repackaged as affordability arguments. Affordability is now the governing political test on energy—and some decarbonization-first advocates are repositioning their programs as the key to energy affordability. This week’s solo pod picks up the next, harder question: What do you—the oil and gas leader—do with this insight? If your first move is to scoff and say, “That’s just climate masquerading as affordability,” you will be correct. But you are unlikely to be effective. In this solo episode, I work through: * Why being right is not the same thing as being effective * What oil and gas leaders can and cannot credibly call out * How to respond when affordability arguments skip over energy system complexity * Why emotional discipline is a core leadership skill * What political signals from California and Democratic presidential politics may tell us about where energy arguments are headed next A preview On the “first simple answer”: “A lot of what is climate masquerading as affordability is a sincere, first, simple solution. And we all need to be committed to working further on that topic to get to the actual, more nuanced answer.” On why calling it out may not work: “If you say, ‘Oh, that’s just climate masquerading as affordability,’ everyone is just going to roll their eyes and look the other way.” On what to do instead: “Let’s go up to 100,000 feet. Let’s look at a longer time scale. Let’s explore the question of affordability in a bigger physical context.” On the real leadership test: “I do 100 percent believe in telling the truth. The subtle thing I want to emphasize here is: When, where, and how can we be effectively persuasive?” Bonus content for this episode My latest book, The Myth and The Moment. My most recent Both True, “Is Climate Action ‘Energy Affordability?’” Mentioned: Politico’s “Tom Steyer Is Running the Most Expensive Campaign in America. It Might Win Him the California Governorship, and “Tom Steyer’s Climate Pivot Signals New Playbook for Dems.” Tell me what you think: “Doing Data Centers the Not-Dumb Way” Volts podcast with Jigar Shah. Relevant podcasts of mine: “Climate Plans Get Punched in the Face” and “Energy Abundance Is Non-Negotiable. Responsibility Is, Too.” Watch the episode on YouTube or listen to the podcast on Substack. What to do next in The Moment? * Want our help with your strategy? Email us to secure a contract spot for Q4 2026. * Please give Energy Thinks a five-star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts. * Was this email forwarded to you? Please subscribe here. Hit the heart button below—it helps others find our work! To effective truth-telling, Tisha Get full access to Both of These Things Are True at tishaschuller.substack.com/subscribe

    23 min

  5. Apr 23

    Energy Abundance Is Non-Negotiable. Responsibility Is, Too.

    Planning your 2026 leadership event? Order The Myth and The Moment for your team. (Reach out for bulk pricing.) What you’ll get in this solo episode of Energy Thinks Last week, I made the case that energy abundance is a civic good—and that oil and gas remain central to achieving it. This solo pod explores some of the consequences of that argument: What does energy abundance as a civic good require of industry? What does it ask of the Problem Solvers? And who decides what comes next? In this solo episode, I work through: * What follows from the civic case for energy abundance and the five truths that underpin it * Why “We’re essential” is not a sufficient case for oil and gas * What a social contract might require of companies like yours operating at the center of modern life * Why Problem Solvers matter more than perfect persuasion * Why someone still has to make a coherent case for unmitigated natural gas (ASAP!) A preview Why a civic case for energy abundance matters: “This is particularly poignant right now, when we see the angst around permitting reform, around power systems’ build-out. The momentum is still on the side of anyone who wants to say no. The only way that calculus is going to change is when there’s a sense of ownership and buy-in and agency around these projects at each community level. Or the nays will always win.” On the social contract: “If you’re doing something that is essential to the well-being of society, there is a social contract expected of the company: that you give more than you receive, that you are there when needed, that you make certain commitments.” On problem solvers and confidence: “I don’t think there is a way to say ‘The Myth is dead’ that people living in The Myth of an Easy Energy Transition can hear. The conclusion I’ve come to is that Problem Solvers must have the confidence to say ‘This is right’ and be willing to take the critique.” Plus: Someone needs to make the case for natural gas. Is that you?! Bonus content for this episode My latest book, The Myth and The Moment. The civic case for energy abundance: Being Essential Isn’t Enough. Matt Yglesias’ piece “Republican War-Mongering Is Their Worst Economic Policy.” Relevant podcasts: “Climate Plans Get Punched in the Face” and “The World Changed. The Climate Playbook Didn’t.” Watch the episode on YouTube or listen to the podcast on Substack. What to do next in The Moment * We can help your busy team work more strategically. Email us to secure a contract spot for Q3 2026. * Please take a moment to give Energy Thinks a five-star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts. * Was this email forwarded to you? Please subscribe here. * If this landed for you, hit the heart button below. To building the social contract, Tisha Get full access to Both of These Things Are True at tishaschuller.substack.com/subscribe

    33 min

  6. Apr 9

    Climate Plans Get Punched in the Face

    What you’ll get in this episode of Energy Thinks My most important conversations right now are focused on The Problem Solvers—those civic leaders squeezed between the climate ambition of their constituents and energy reality. In this episode, I sit down with Matt Baker, Commissioner at the California Public Utilities Commission, to talk about what Problem Solver leadership looks like on the front lines of climate ambition: California. In few places have The Myth of an Easy Energy Transition faced The Moment more clearly than in California. This conversation is important to you for a few reasons: * Matt’s the best kind of Problem Solver—a smart, devoted, pragmatic, experienced climate hawk willing to name trade-offs and argue for workable solutions. * He’s in the middle of the action. He sits at the center of some of the hardest questions in energy right now: what to build, how fast to build it, and who can afford the bill. * He thinks differently than we do. And (as you’ll hear) his view of the world—what matters, what is possible, what is urgent—is very different from yours. You need that diversity of thought. How does Matt address the yawning gap between the climate expectations of his constituencies and the on-the-ground pressures around cost and reliability? “I’m thinking of that quip from Mike Tyson’s,” he told me, “which is ‘All plans are great until you get punched in the face.’” For a long time, he added, regulators like him operated under an implicit plan for the energy transition: First drive efficiency, then decarbonize power sources, then electrify everything else. But now that punch Tyson was talking about has arrived in California, in the form of rising costs, reliability stressors, and wildfire liabilities. What makes Baker worth hearing is his unflinching commitment to the centrality and urgency of climate ambition to the state’s goals and his mandate. He argues that reliability and affordability are the necessary conditions for climate action. You need to understand this point of view. Why Matt Baker? I met Matt when I was head of the Colorado Oil & Gas Association and he was a Colorado public utilities commissioner. He’s someone I’ve long known to be both a passionate climate hawk and a deeply pragmatic thinker. Matt brings a perspective we don’t hear enough from: what it looks like to sit at the center of the regulatory beast, where every decision is a trade-off—and getting it wrong has real consequences for your neighbors. In his case, 39 million of them. Some of Matt’s insights: On climate ambition versus reality: “It’s super important as an energy regulator to recognize that if we can’t provide safe, reliable, and affordable energy services, then we will not be able to meet those climate goals. That prime directive—particularly reliability and affordability—has to go hand in hand if we’re going to meet [climate] goals.” On climate progress: “We have to get used to living in difficult worlds and making trade-offs—but still moving the ball as far as we can every time we get it.” The quiet part was said out loud: “I continue to believe natural gas is a critical fuel, and that California really needs to be able to think about how do we get clean firm [power]. And until we have clean firm [power sources] that are economical, we’re going to rely on natural gas.” On depolarizing energy and climate: “This is not a religious war. ... This is not a crusade on either side. My goal is to make energy boring again! Let’s talk about cost allocation. Let’s talk about resource planning.” Bonus content! More about Matt Baker: Matt Baker is a commissioner at the California Public Utilities Commission, appointed by Governor Gavin Newsom in 2024. He brings decades of experience in energy and climate policy, including serving as director of the CPUC’s Public Advocates Office and deputy secretary of energy at the California Natural Resources Agency. Previously, he was a commissioner at the Colorado Public Utilities Commission and a program officer at the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. Baker began his career in public interest advocacy and holds a BA in history from Pennsylvania State University. Watch the episode on YouTube or listen to the podcast on Substack to hear Josh and me discuss The Myth and The Moment. Read Jennifer Pahlka’s Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better. CPUC’s report to the California Earthquake Authority: Senate Bill 254 Information and Recommendations. Order your copy of The Myth and The Moment: From Polarization to Progress in the New Energy Landscape. What to do next in The Moment * Email us and we’ll help you train for your next boxing match. * Enjoying The Myth and The Moment? Leave a review to help others find it. * If this email was forwarded to you, please subscribe here. To rolling with the punches,Tisha Get full access to Both of These Things Are True at tishaschuller.substack.com/subscribe

    46 min

  7. Apr 2

    Your Antidote to the Politics of Fear

    Planning your 2026 leadership event? Order The Myth and The Moment for your team. (Reach out for bulk pricing.) What you’ll get in this solo episode of Energy Thinks Fear works—up to a point. So even before we found ourselves amid a war in the Middle East and an energy crisis, a fear-driven politics was forming in reaction to AI, data centers, and energy buildout. Why? Because fear is politically easy for both the left and the right. But you—the successful energy leader—want much more than scoring easy political points. Your challenge: Offer an alternative vision to the demagoguery. And then connect that vision to your stakeholder communities, to give them a path out of the fear. Both of these things are true: * Fear will be the default politics around AI, data centers, and energy infrastructure growth. * Leaders must offer a vision of the future—complete with that infrastructure—that communities will actually champion. In this solo episode, I work through: * Why a politics of fear is emerging around AI, data centers, and energy * What it takes to offer a credible, optimistic vision of the future rooted in innovation and real-world outcomes * Why communities—not just policymakers—will ultimately determine what gets built and what doesn’t A preview The opportunity the politics of fear gives us: “Fear as a political approach is the default, and we should expect that. … I think it leaves this wide-open lane for someone to talk about the future in an optimistic way.” On the real goal of community engagement: “You want champions. You don’t just want to be an invited guest, but a recruited, welcome, sought-after partner in building communities of the future.” On articulating a better enemy: “What if polarization became the enemy? The polarization is turning our politics into these wild, populist pendulum swings, making it impossible to get common sense things done, like budget bills and permitting reform.” Bonus content for this episode My latest book, The Myth and The Moment. A song that inspired my spring break (h/t to the hubby, Brian!). Relevant podcasts: “The World Changed. The Climate Playbook Didn’t.” and “The Center Won’t Hold Itself.” Mentioned: an Axios story on how AI CEOs are fueling a more fear-driven conversation about the future. Watch the episode on YouTube. What to do next in The Moment * We can help your busy team work more strategically. Email us to secure a contract spot for Q3 2026. * Please take a moment to give Energy Thinks a five-star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts. * Was this email forwarded to you? Please subscribe here. * If this landed for you, hit the heart button below. To providing that compelling vision, Tisha Get full access to Both of These Things Are True at tishaschuller.substack.com/subscribe

    29 min

  8. Mar 12

    The World Changed. The Climate Playbook Didn’t.

    What you’ll get in this episode of Energy Thinks I sit down with Alex Trembath, executive director of the Breakthrough Institute, because I wanted to explore a question that’s been on my mind for a while: Are we really moving past what Alex calls the “peak climate” era? (Because I’m not so sure.) For much of the past two decades, climate change has been the central organizing force for energy policy, politics, philanthropy, and corporate strategy. But the world is shifting. Geopolitics, economic pressures, and new technologies—especially artificial intelligence—are changing the political context for energy and climate. Alex and I talk about what that means for the future of the energy transition, the persistence of what I call the “climate orthodoxy,” and the debates now emerging inside Democratic politics around oil and gas, nuclear, the grid, and the one thing that determines how everything unfolds: permitting reform. If you’re trying to understand where the conversation on energy and climate may go next, this is a good place to start. Why Alex? I’ve known Alex for a long time, and he’s one of the people I turn to when I want to stress-test my thinking about energy and climate. At the Breakthrough Institute, Alex has helped develop an eco-modernist perspective that puts technological innovation and energy abundance at the center of solving environmental challenges. When Breakthrough first started advancing these ideas, they were often seen as fringe. Today, many of these same ideas—innovation, advanced nuclear, carbon removal, energy abundance—are much closer to the center of the conversation. I wanted to talk with Alex because the world feels as if it’s shifting again. The climate agenda that dominated the past decade is running into new political and technological realities. The question now is: What replaces the old playbook—and how does our industry contribute to a thriving, vibrant energy landscape? Some of Alex’s insights * On peak climate: “For most of my career, climate change was the central organizing force for progressives and for the Democratic Party. Reaching net-zero emissions by mid-century was non-negotiable. Everything was framed around how it contributed to the climate agenda. I think that world is over.” * On our role: “The oil and gas industry has a lot of industrial and technical knowledge to share, with carbon removal, clean fuels, geothermal, and other emerging energy technologies. There are many ways industry can continue to accelerate energy innovation and expand energy abundance.” Bonus content! Watch on YouTube or listen on Substack to hear Alex and me discuss The Myth and The Moment. Order The Myth and The Moment: From Polarization to Progress in the New Energy Landscape. What to do next in The Moment * Enjoying The Myth and The Moment? Leave a review to help others find it. * If this email was forwarded to you, please subscribe here. * Are you ready to contribute to the next energy conversation? Hit that heart button below. On to what comes next, Tisha Get full access to Both of These Things Are True at tishaschuller.substack.com/subscribe

    52 min
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