Lift+Love Podcast Episode 92 — "Sacred Witnessing and the Tension of Opposites in Faith Journeys" with Mike Petrow. Content warning: This episode discusses faith transition / faith crisis, death, the loss of a loved ones, including a parent and a sibling, loss due to suicide. It includes mentions of depression and suicidal ideation, self-blame, reflections on whether the death could have been prevented, and a brief reference to the professional cleanup after the death of a relative. The episode opens with an unscripted conversation sparked by the death of Allison’s friend Michelle Schmidt, remembered for unwavering, non-coercive faith. Episode hosts Allison, Darice, and Mike discuss “sacred witnessing” in tragedy, drawing on Huston Smith, Holocaust survivor joy, and a reimagined approach to witnessing as deeply seeing others rather than converting them. They explore scripture through the lens of a God “worthy of love,” including reflections on Noah, Job, theodicy and theophany, and how Job’s friends move from silent presence to harmful meaning-making. Personal stories of suicide loss, compounding grief, and LGBTQ family experiences lead into trauma vs. grief, the “wounded healer,” Jung’s “crucified between opposites,” and holding paradox with curiosity, compassion, and grace. 00:14 Remembering Michelle Schmidt 00:58 Faith Through Tragedy 02:30 Tales of Wonder 03:45 Certainty Without Control 05:27 Rethinking Witnessing 07:37 "Permissionaries" and Curiosity 08:44 God Like a Grandparent 09:48 Worthy Ways to Read Scripture 11:09 Noah and Divine Violence 12:33 Job and LGBTQ Parallels 15:24 Sitting With Suffering 16:40 When Friends Need Answers 18:55 Compounding Grief and Coming Out 21:49 Why Trauma Training Matters 24:45 Faith vs Optimism 27:02 Grief vs Trauma in the Body 27:52 Trauma Readings of Paul 28:29 The Wounded Healer Path 28:56 Finding Jim Finley 30:45 Wounds Become Medicine 32:39 Theophany Over Theodicy 35:55 Love And Paradox 37:46 Crucified Between Opposites 40:47 Deconstruction GPS Map 43:18 Practicing Tension Daily 46:56 Holding Faith And Queerness 51:50 Suicide Loss And Unknowing 54:33 Grace For Different Journeys 57:47 Closing Thanks And Invitation Mike Petrow, PhD, is the Director of Formation, Faculty Relations, and Theological Foundations at the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC), a nonprofit founded by Father Richard Rohr that introduces seekers to the contemplative Christian path of transformation. Mike plays a central role in the CAC’s Living School, where he serves as one of the primary hosts of the program’s teaching conversations. He holds multiple degrees, including a PhD, in psychology, mythology, and religious studies. If you are an LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saint or a relative, friend, ally, or leader, please join us at the 4th annual Gather Conference this November 13-14th in Provo Utah. Learn more and register at www.liftandlove.org/gather
