2 Pastors and a Mic

Hill City

Unfiltered, unedited, and uncommon thoughts from 2 pastors figuring it out as they go.

  1. 3D AGO

    269. Three Reason Churches Unintentionally Reward Survival Patterns

    In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we kick off a brand new conversation about something many Christians never stop to question: what if some of the behaviors we’ve called “spiritual maturity” are actually survival patterns? We talk about three reasons churches often unintentionally reward unhealthy patterns, not because leaders are malicious, but because many of us were formed by the same systems ourselves. From self-shrinking that looks like humility, to overworking that looks like sacrifice, to people-pleasing that looks like love, this episode sets the stage for a deeper series on trauma responses disguised as godliness. If you’ve ever wondered whether a certain response in your life is actually healthy… or just familiar… this episode is for you. In this conversation, we cover: Why survival behaviors can look like spiritual maturity How churches often reward what keeps systems stable Why many leaders unknowingly reinforce the same unhealthy patterns they were taught How Jesus modeled security, wholeness, boundaries, and honesty Why healing is not about becoming less spiritual, but more honest This episode is a bridge into a new series where we’ll unpack common Christian behaviors and ask: is this actually godly, or is it a trauma response? 00:00 - Intro & Podcast Updates 01:03 - Indiana Sports Talk 02:20 - The 2:6 Life Recap 02:58 - New Series: Godly Thought or Trauma Response? 03:54 - Why Churches Reward Survival Patterns 04:58 - Reason 1: Survival Behaviors Look Spiritual 09:53 - Reason 2: Churches Reward What Keeps Things Stable 11:53 - Reason 3: Leaders Were Formed by the Same Patterns 15:23 - Jesus as the Model of Secure Wholeness 16:25 - The Real Question: Survival or Spirituality? 16:57 - Why This Series Matters 18:27 - Next Week: False Humility & Receiving Affirmation 20:31 - Closing Encouragement

    21 min
  2. MAR 4

    268. Is Reconstruction Harder Than Deconstruction?

    In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we wrap up our deconstruction/reconstruction mini-series with a question a lot of people ask: Which one is harder—deconstruction or reconstruction? We start with a little Nashville recap, then we get honest about what this journey actually feels like in real life. One of the biggest takeaways: the “harder vs. easier” question might not even be the right lens. The better questions are: What am I building now? What am I a part of? And is it beautiful? We talk about why reconstruction can feel heavier—because there’s no blueprint, growth becomes less visible, freedom requires discernment, and you’re often doing deep internal work that nobody can see. But we also talk about the hope on the other side: steadiness, less fear, more humility, more peace, and a clearer vision of a Jesus who gets bigger and brighter as you go. If you’re in the middle space—unsure, rebuilding, or feeling alone—you’re not crazy. You’re not losing faith. You’re being formed. In this episode: Deconstruction vs. reconstruction (and why it’s not a simple comparison) Why reconstruction feels slower, heavier, and more internal The “no blueprint” reality—and the challenge of freedom The question that filters everything: Is it beautiful? What this season is forming in you (righteousness, peace, joy) Why safe people matter when you’re rebuilding 00:58 - Red Wings vs Predators jersey drama 03:14 - Why Cory came in hot + wrapping the 26 Life mini-series 04:49 - Big question: Which is harder—deconstruction or reconstruction? 05:43 - Deconstruction as demolition (and the tension of “throw it all out”) 06:33 - Deconstruction felt powerless, stuck, uncertain 07:52 - Clarifying “powerful”: disruption vs the fallout of “now what?” 08:12 - Cottage renovation analogy: nostalgia, attachment, and letting things go 10:21 - Aha moments, permission, and finding language in deconstruction 12:41 - Why reconstruction can feel heavier: nuance, layers, reconciliation 14:30 - David & Goliath example: living without forced answers 16:40 - Moving from “what’s wrong?” to “what am I building now?” 17:29 - The filter question: Is it beautiful? (making Jesus look beautiful) 18:12 - Why reconstruction is hard: no blueprint—only freedom 19:31 - Freedom requires vulnerability, discernment, and rethinking practices 20:50 - Growth becomes less visible: internal change, slower reactions, steadiness 22:56 - Reconstruction as deeper work: character, posture, openness to God 24:53 - The importance of safe people to process with (and time gaps in growth) 25:57 - Plot twist: “harder” is the wrong question—what is this season forming in you? 27:14 - Kingdom markers: righteousness, peace, joy as the real measuring stick 27:41 - Next week teaser: Christianese as trauma responses (5-part framework) 29:05 - Closing: “You’re loved and there’s nothing you can do about it.”

    29 min
  3. FEB 25

    267. When Your Theology Changes But Your Relationships Haven't

    In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, Cory and Channock tackle one of the hardest parts of growth: what happens when you change…but the people around you don’t. If you’ve gone through deconstruction, started holding your beliefs more loosely, or found yourself living with more nuance, you’ve probably felt the tension at the dinner table—Do I speak up? Stay quiet? Change the subject? Because the truth is, most of the time the tension isn’t even theological… it’s relational. They talk honestly about why your growth can feel threatening to others (even when you’re not trying to change anyone), the unspoken agreements relationships can be built on, and the three common temptations that show up in this season: shrinking, proving, or withdrawing. From there, they give five practical tools to help you stay connected without losing yourself—how to lead with curiosity, stop managing other people’s reactions, and build safe spaces where you don’t have to translate your entire journey just to be understood. If you’ve felt misunderstood, exhausted, or tempted to pull back from the people you love, this one is for you. In this episode: Why the tension isn’t theological—it’s relational The 3 temptations: shrink, prove, withdraw 5 practical tools for staying connected while you grow When distance is wisdom (boundaries, not punishment) Staying grounded in who you’re becoming 00:00 - Welcome Back + Quick Banter 00:45 - Share the Episode + 26 Life Theme (1 John 2:6) 01:34 - Recap: Deconstruction, Stuck Seasons, Staying Tender 02:20 - Recap: Rebuilding Trust (Brené Brown’s BRAVING) 02:50 - Recap: Living Without Certainty (The Sin of Certainty) 03:22 - Today’s Topic: When You Change but Others Don’t 04:08 - The Real Tension: Family, Friends, and Staying Connected 05:08 - When People Speak in Absolutes + You Feel Misunderstood 06:17 - Dinner Table Moment: Speak Up, Stay Quiet, or Shift Topics? 07:30 - It’s Not Theological—It’s Relational Risk 09:20 - When Your Shift Feels Threatening to Others 10:16 - Unspoken Agreements: “We’ve Always Believed This” 11:34 - 3 Temptations: Shrink, Prove, or Withdraw 12:15 - Temptation 1: Shrinking to Keep the Room Calm 13:16 - Temptation 2: Proving It (Over-explaining, Articles, Debates) 14:01 - Temptation 3: Withdrawing Fully (Exhaustion + New Language) 16:06 - 5 Practical Tools for Connection (Overview) 17:23 - Tool 1: Decide What’s Worth Discussing (Hill vs Habit) 19:42 - Tool 2: Lead With Curiosity, Not Correction 20:36 - Tool 3: Let Go of Being Understood Immediately 21:45 - Tool 4: Stop Managing Their Reaction 22:20 - Tool 5: Build New Safe Spaces (Relational Oxygen) 23:27 - When Distance Is Wise (Boundaries, Not Punishment) 24:42 - Stay Grounded in Who You’re Becoming 27:11 - Next Week: Reconstruction vs Deconstruction (Which Is Harder?) 27:44 - Hockey Sidebar: Team USA Beats Canada + “Won It for Johnny” 28:37 - Closing: You’re Loved (Nothing You Can Do About It)

    29 min
  4. FEB 18

    266. Living Faith Without Needing Certainty

    In this episode of Two Pastors And A Mic, we tackle one of the hardest (and most freeing) parts of the faith journey: what it looks like to follow Jesus without needing to be certain about everything. A lot of us were formed in environments where certainty = faith… where having the “right answer” felt like safety, belonging, and control. But when deconstruction (or just honest questions) starts pulling at those threads, it can feel like you’re losing your footing—even when you’re actually gaining clarity. So we talk about the sin of certainty, why black-and-white theology feels stabilizing, and why learning to live in the “gray” isn’t weakness—it might actually be the strongest version of faith. We unpack: Why uncertainty often feels like “stuckness” (Stuck 2.0) How seminary trained many of us to respond instead of think A real-time example of cognitive dissonance (who actually killed Goliath?) The difference between certainty and trust 3 practical ways to live a faith that stays present, relational, and curious Why questions don’t mean you’re losing faith—they might mean you’re growing If you’ve ever thought, “If I’m not sure… am I still a Christian?” — this one’s for you. 👇 Drop a comment: What’s one area where you’re learning to hold faith without needing certainty? 00:00 - Welcome Back + Like/Subscribe 01:19 - Quick Recap: The “26 Life” + Deconstruction Series 03:16 - Today’s Topic: Faith Without Certainty 03:48 - “The Sin of Certainty” + Learning/Unlearning/Relearning 04:55 - Uncertainty = Stuck 2.0 (Why It Feels So Hard) 05:48 - Seminary Training: Answers Over Nuance 07:18 - “How to Respond” vs “How to Think” 08:25 - Why Black-and-White Feels Safer Than Gray 09:35 - Who Killed Goliath? A Real-Time Certainty Test 11:20 - Apologetics Reframed: Defending Your Life, Not Arguments 12:56 - Why Dogmatism (Even About Grace) Is a Trap 13:15 - Losing Certainty Feels Like Losing Footing 14:30 - Certainty Impacts Emotional Security + Belonging 15:32 - Certainty as Control + Fear of Uncertainty 17:46 - Cognitive Dissonance: Why We Double Down 20:06 - Uncertainty: Losing Control, Gaining Freedom 20:55 - Certainty vs Trust (Answers vs Relationship) 22:07 - Faith Without Certainty: 3 Practices 22:12 - Stay Present Instead of Forcing Conclusions 23:01 - Let Relationship Lead Before Explanation 23:47 - Choose Curiosity Over Defensiveness 25:02 - Identity Attachment: Why Disagreement Feels Personal 26:06 - Signs You’re Growing: Calm, Curious, “I Don’t Know” 27:57 - Presence Over Proof + Belonging Over Being Right 28:30 - When Beliefs Shift, Relationships Strain 29:32 - You’re Not Losing Faith—You’re Carrying It Differently 30:12 - Next Week Tease: Navigating Relationships When You Change 30:35 - Closing: You’re Loved (Nothing You Can Do About It)

    31 min
  5. FEB 11

    265. Rebuilding Trust Through B.R.A.V.I.N.G.

    In today’s conversation, we’re talking about something almost everyone has to rebuild at some point—trust. If you’ve been dismissed, disappointed, shunned, or wounded by church culture, you know how quickly trust can fracture… not just with people, but with yourself and even with God. So we break it down like a three-legged stool: ✅ rebuilding trust with others ✅ rebuilding trust with yourself ✅ rebuilding trust with God And then we get super practical by unpacking Brené Brown’s “BRAVING” framework—a simple but powerful way to name exactly what was broken, so you can actually rebuild it with clarity (instead of vague “I just don’t trust you anymore” statements). Drop a comment: Which part of trust is hardest for you to rebuild—trusting others, trusting yourself, or trusting God? 00:00 - Welcome + quick housekeeping (reviews, sharing) 02:57 - The “2:6 Life” theme for 2026 (1 John 2:6) 03:35 - Recap: deconstruction, stuckness, and staying tender 04:18 - Today’s focus: rebuilding trust (self, others, God) 05:24 - The “three-legged stool” of trust (how each affects the others) 06:02 - Why trust matters: you weren’t meant to live isolated 07:01 - Trust in church spaces: “You don’t have to trust us” + earning trust 08:05 - Trust is rebuilt through experience, not explanation 09:28 - What betrayal/broken trust actually breaks (and why wording matters) 13:15 - Nuance: disagreement vs dishonor vs relationship removal 15:27 - Layer 1: rebuilding trust with leaders/communities 16:24 - Layer 2: rebuilding trust with yourself (discernment + red flags) 17:29 - Layer 3: rebuilding trust with God (prayer, numbness, expectations) 18:57 - What trust is (and what trust is NOT) 20:13 - Introducing Brené Brown’s “BRAVING” framework 21:34 - B — Boundaries (doors with hinges, not walls) 22:54 - R — Reliability (do what you say you’ll do) 23:50 - A — Accountability (own it, apologize, make amends) 24:44 - V — Vault (confidentiality + why it matters) 29:34 - I — Integrity (values in action, courage over comfort) 29:59 - N — Non-judgment (ask for what you need without shame) 30:29 - G — Generosity (most generous interpretation / benefit of the doubt) 31:39 - BRAVING recap + why specificity helps rebuild trust 32:02 - Next week teaser: living faith without certainty (“the sin of certainty”) 32:21 - Closing encouragement + “you’re loved” outro

    34 min
  6. FEB 4

    264. How To Stay Tender Without Becoming Cynical

    In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we keep walking out what we’re calling the 2:6 Life - Anyone who claims to live in Him must live as Jesus did” (1 John 2:6). And today we go straight into a tension a lot of us feel after deconstruction, church hurt, or betrayal: How do you protect your heart…without closing it off completely? Because for many of us, cynicism starts to feel like wisdom. It promises we won’t be surprised again, disappointed again, or fooled again. But over time, cynicism doesn’t just guard the wound—it can quietly starve the heart: connection, wonder, curiosity, hope. So we talk about the difference between: Discernment vs. distancing Wise boundaries vs. emotional retreat Self-protection vs. staying tender And we get super practical with real-life examples—how cynicism shows up in relationships, leadership, church spaces, and even the way we interpret “good” stories. We also give a few ways to stay tender without being naive—because tenderness isn’t fragility… it’s availability (with boundaries). If you’ve ever felt yourself growing colder, pulling back, or assuming the worst just to stay safe… this one’s for you. 00:00 - Welcome to Two Pastors and a Mic (Episode 264) 00:46 - The 2:6 Life Theme: Living Like Jesus (1 John 2:6) 01:33 - Quick Recap: Deconstruction + Feeling Stuck 02:09 - Today’s Topic: Protect Your Heart Without Closing It 03:10 - Cynicism vs Tenderness: The Heart Posture Tension 04:37 - Why Cynicism Creeps In After Church Hurt 05:50 - Discernment or Cynicism? Processing the Difference 07:19 - What Cynicism Promises: No Surprise, No Disappointment, No Fooling 08:21 - Real-Life Example: “What’s the Catch?” When Good Things Happen 10:33 - Discernment vs Distancing: Staying Present vs Staying Safe 11:46 - How Hearts Harden: Disappointment Fatigue 13:50 - Polished Answers + Emotional Retreat (Not Strength) 14:13 - Why Tenderness Feels Dangerous After Betrayal 15:53 - Tenderness Isn’t Fragility: It’s Availability + Boundaries 16:31 - Real-Life Example: Naming Hurt Calmly Instead of Disappearing 17:42 - Tenderness Heals: Cynicism Shrinks, Tenderness Expands 19:35 - Practical Steps: Stay Curious Longer Than Certain 21:01 - Let Disappointment Teach You, Not Define You 21:37 - Speak Honestly Without Rehearsing Your Exit 22:28 - Counseling Story: One Foot In, One Foot Out 24:05 - The Invitation: Stay Reachable to Goodness Again 24:52 - Tenderness + Boundaries: Wise Without Being Cold 25:40 - Next Week Tease: Trusting God and Trusting Yourself Again 25:54 - Wrap-Up: Cynicism Robs Connection

    27 min
  7. JAN 28

    263. Why Some People Get Stuck After Deconstructing

    What do you do when you feel stuck? You’ve awakened to union. You’ve deconstructed beliefs that used to shape your life. You have clarity of thought… but not clarity of direction. And the weird part is: you don’t want to go back — you just don’t know how to move forward. In this episode, we unpack 5 common reasons people get stuck after deconstruction (and why it’s not failure), plus real-life examples of what “stuckness” can look like when your beliefs have changed faster than your life knows how to hold it. We also talk about: Why being stuck isn’t laziness — it might be wisdom The difference between deconstruction and formation How losing a framework can feel like losing belonging Why Sundays can feel “empty” (and how to reframe what Sundays are for) Hypervigilance, certainty addiction, and scanning for what’s wrong How stuckness often ends… when striving ends And we close with a reframe that might change everything: Maybe the question isn’t “How do I get unstuck?” Maybe it’s “What is this season teaching me to release?” 00:00 - Welcome + Like/Subscribe 00:38 - IU Football Wins the National Championship 01:31 - Leadership Lessons From IU’s Turnaround 02:22 - 2026 Life + Union After Deconstruction 02:57 - Today’s Topic: What to Do When You Feel Stuck 03:45 - Stuckness Isn’t More Learning—It’s Living Differently 05:12 - Common “Stuck” Thoughts People Carry 06:15 - Reason #1: Awareness Grew Faster Than Wisdom 10:26 - Reason #2: Lost the Old Framework Before Building a New One 13:56 - Reason #3: Deconstruction Isn’t the Same as Formation 15:41 - Reason #4: Lost External Permission Before Internal Trust 17:14 - Reason #5: Afraid to Rebuild Anything That Resembles the Old Life 20:46 - Reassurance: Feeling Stuck Isn’t Failure 21:51 - “The Meantime Is a Time” + Unlearning the Rush 22:34 - Example #1: Not Arguing Anymore—Just Quieter 23:50 - Example #2: Less Reactive… But Feeling Less Passionate 24:46 - Example #3: Stopped Fixing People—Now What’s My Role? 25:47 - Example #4: Want Community Without the Old Rules 27:16 - Example #5: Waiting Isn’t Laziness—It’s Wisdom 28:48 - Better Question: What Is This Season Teaching Me? 30:16 - When Striving Ends, Stuckness Often Ends 30:43 - Map vs. Compass: Learning to Walk Without Certainty 31:12 - Grace, Patience, and Staying Open to the Spirit 32:02 - Next Episode: Staying Tender Without Becoming Cynical 32:50 - Closing: You’re Loved (Nothing You Can Do About It)

    33 min
  8. JAN 21

    262. What Changes And What Doesn't - After Deconstruction?

    Deconstruction can feel like freedom… until the relief wears off. In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, Cory and Channock talk honestly about what really changes after deconstruction — and what often doesn’t. Because many of us have shifted our beliefs about God, the Bible, hell, the devil, and faith… but still find ourselves stuck in the same emotional patterns we learned in the system we left. You might think differently now… but still feel anxious, responsible, pressured, or lonely. In this conversation, you’ll hear: 🧩 Why deconstruction is healthy — and why it’s often necessary ❤️ The real question: do you love better after deconstruction? 🔄 What does change: your opinions, language, and questions 🧠 What often doesn’t change: nervous system patterns, attachment styles, shame responses 😰 The four common “stuck” places after deconstruction: If you’ve ever wondered, “Why do I still feel the same even though I believe something different now?” — this episode will help you name what’s happening and remind you: you’re not broken, you’re not behind, and you didn’t do deconstruction wrong. 👉 Like / Subscribe / Share 💬 Comment below: What changed for you after deconstruction — and what still feels hard? 00:00 - Welcome + Like/Share/Subscribe 00:34 - Why Sharing Creates Better Conversations 01:44 - Today’s Topic: Deconstruction—What Changed and What Didn’t 02:04 - IU vs Miami National Championship Predictions 03:41 - Revisiting the “2:6 Life” + Galatians 5:6 04:53 - Why Deconstruction Matters: Does It Make You More Loving? 06:35 - After the Relief: Why Deconstruction Can Still Feel “Off” 07:44 - New Beliefs, Same Patterns: Emotional Systems & Survival Habits 08:42 - The Goal: Living With What You Know Now 09:20 - What Changed (1): Opinions Shift (Curiosity, Nuance, Less Certainty) 10:50 - What Changed (2): Language Shifts (“The Bible clearly says…,” “God told me…”) 12:37 - What Changed (3): Better Questions (Truth, Identity, Love) 13:30 - What Didn’t Change: Nervous System Patterns & Attachment Responses 14:28 - Didn’t Change (1): Feeling Responsible for Others’ Feelings 16:06 - Didn’t Change (2): Pressure to Get It Right (Certainty as Safety) 18:15 - Didn’t Change (3): Worth Tied to Usefulness (Overfunctioning, Guilt in Rest) 20:37 - Didn’t Change (4): Loneliness Even With Better Beliefs 24:50 - The Hard Part: Being Isolated After Belief Shifts 25:04 - You’re Not Broken: This Is the Next Layer (Notice, Don’t Fix) 26:56 - Next Episode Tease: Why We Feel Stuck After Waking Up 27:53 - Closing: You’re Loved

    28 min
4.8
out of 5
137 Ratings

About

Unfiltered, unedited, and uncommon thoughts from 2 pastors figuring it out as they go.

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