Manager Minute-brought to you by the VR Technical Assistance Center

VRTAC Team
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ONE CENTER. ONE TEAM. ONE MISSION.

  1. 5d ago

    VRTAC Manager Minute: Who's Next? Moving Beyond Vacancies to Build the VR Workforce

    VR doesn't just have a vacancy problem. It has a pipeline problem. What if the answer to VR's workforce shortage isn't simply filling the next vacancy? Across the country, VR agencies are competing for talent, losing experienced staff, and trying to prepare a new generation of professionals—many of whom may not even know that VR is a career option. In this episode of the Manager Minute, George Michna of Connecticut and Mario Lucero of New Mexico join Carol Pankow to talk about a different approach: intentionally building the VR workforce pipeline. Drawing from their National Rehabilitation Leadership Institute (NRLI) project, George and Mario explore how career pathways, mentorship, apprenticeships, stronger onboarding, and leadership development can help agencies move from reacting to vacancies to developing talent for the long term. They also tackle an equally important question: once we bring talented people into VR, what makes them want to stay? If your agency is thinking about recruitment, retention, succession planning, or developing its next generation of leaders, this conversation is worth a listen.   Listen Here Full Transcript {Music} George: One of the biggest values of NRLI was the opportunity to step outside of your day to day work and to engage with colleagues, people who eventually become good friends of yours that live across the country, who are dealing with many of the same challenges. Mario: We've really invested hard in our leadership team, and we're seeing the results of that now. We got out of a cap. We're really making positive progress towards meeting our performance metrics. We have a way better understanding of our data, and now we're really focusing on leadership and culture within our agency.   Intro voice: Manager minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow. Carol: Welcome to the Manager Minute. Joining me in the studio today are George Michna, Bureau Chief for Community Living from Connecticut Bureau of Rehabilitation Services, and Mario Lucero, Field Operations Director for New Mexico General. So, George, how's it going in Connecticut? George: It's going good. Actually, the weather's finally holding it up here, so it's kind of nice to finally enjoy. Hopefully, a really nice summer. Carol: Yeah, that is awesome. I know we've all been talking a lot about the weather in Minnesota. It's hot and sultry. It was 95 yesterday so you never think of that here. And Mario was so great to have you here as well. How are things on your end in New Mexico? Mario: Thanks for having me, Carol. We're doing good here in New Mexico. Had a little bit of rain the last two weeks, which is really welcomed because we have been so dry and we have problems with forest fires here in New Mexico. So any rain that we get is welcome. So we're doing well. Carol: Well, I never think of New Mexico and forest fires. I'm sorry Mario, I just think of you as being more deserty. But I know you have trees. I know you have... Mario: We do. Carol: So today we're going to talk about a topic that's coming up across the country and it's the workforce challenges in vocational rehabilitation. And George and Mario, part of a cohort from the National Rehabilitation Leadership Institute, or NRLI, which is a leadership program that brings together emerging leaders from across the VR system to take on some of the field's biggest challenges. And as part of that experience, their group developed a project focused on career pathways as a strategy for recruitment and retention in VR. And we're going to unpack what they found and why it matters right now. So let's dig in. So let's start with each of you. How did you get into VR and what has kept you in this work? And Mario, I'm going to go to you first. Mario: Thanks, Carol. Well, for me, vocational rehabilitation is always aligned with who I am personally and professionally. I've spent my life around ministry, teaching, and helping professions. My father was both a minister and a teacher, and I think that shaped how I view people and purpose. I also live with significant physical disabilities myself, so I understand firsthand the importance of opportunity, independence, dignity, and meaningful work. VR gave me the opportunity to turn that into a lived experience and into a career where I could help others overcome barriers and pursue employment goals they may have once thought were impossible. What's kept me in this work is honestly the mission. We're not just processing cases or authorizing services. We're helping people build lives, support families, and regain confidence in themselves. You get to see real transformation in people's lives, and that's hard to walk away from once you've experienced it. Carol: I love that, Mario, Thanks for sharing that. George, how about you? George: So my pathway into vocational rehabilitation started in education. I was a special education teacher, later taught pre-service teachers. It was also a school administrator and then worked for the Connecticut State Department of Education. A lot of it has just been through those roles is that one thing that became clear that we put a lot of effort into supporting students while they're in school, but there's a disconnect. when it came to what happened after they exited school. So students would graduate, but the transition to employment or post-secondary pathways was not always strong or consistent. And I think that's really what drew me into vocational rehabilitation. It's one of the few systems that is specifically designed to bridge that gap between education and employment. And I think that what's really kept me here is both the impact and the work that we do. You see real outcomes when someone moves into employment and independence. And in my current role, I'm focused on kind of how those systems connect, both on the employment side and within community living, as well as education through a grant that we're running. So that's really kind of what's kept me engaged in the work, and just having those meaningful conversations with individuals about finding success in their lives. Carol: Yeah, I had no idea about you. George: Yeah. Carol: Being an educator, that is very cool. It's always fun to see people's stories and how they get into this sort of a career. Appreciate that. So I know you both participated in NRLI, and I just wondered if you could tell our listeners a little bit about what that experience was like. And how did that shape your thinking as a leader? And George, I'll tag you first on that. George: First and foremost. NRLI gave me the opportunity to step outside of my state and look at vocational rehabilitation from more of a national perspective. We were teamed with about, I think, 30 individuals or so as our cohort, and they represented both VR, general VR Blind and also combined agencies. And so you really get a mix of perspectives from individuals. And I think that's really powerful. And the other thing was, is that what really started finding, for example, was, is that, you know, you start looking at issues with your workforce, challenges that you might have, bringing in counselors and the like, and you start finding out that others are facing similar challenges. So you're able to have these kind of sidebar conversations throughout the time that you spent together. And you really get to learn from individuals about what other states are doing and how to kind of effectively problem solve. Mario: And NRLI was an incredible experience because it forced us to step back and think beyond just our own state systems and day to day operations. You're sitting in a room with leaders from all over the country who are dealing with many of the same challenges, but often approaching them in different ways. For me personally, it challenged me to think more strategically and systemically as a leader, instead of only asking, how do we solve today's problem? It pushed me to ask, how do we build sustainable systems for the future? One of the biggest takeaways for me was realizing that many of our workforce challenges in VR are not isolated problems, they're national trends. That realization helped reinforce the importance of collaboration, innovation and leadership development across the entire VR system. Carol: Well, I think we're definitely better together. NRLI, I love that bringing that sense of community because you can feel very isolated, you know, in your individual states and your agencies, and you learn how to do things a certain way. So you guys bring up a good point. You know, you hear other people with the same challenges, but they've tackled them differently. And so I love that kind of that transplanting of ideas that happens naturally through that cohort model. And you get, you know, you're with your group a whole year and you really get to know people. And I think that transplanting of ideas and that building that network that you can rely on later, because I'm sure you probably each have like email groups and all of that good stuff or chat groups with your folks from NRLI that you can just like, hey, we have this going on. What do you know about this? Or what are you guys doing? I think there's a lot of value in that. So I know as part of NRLI, your group focused on workforce and career pathways. How did you guys come up with that as your project? George: Well, I gotta say this, it wasn't a project that we landed on right away. The way NRLI is structured, we do have multiple weeks that we meet across the year, and we also had opportunities to connect virtually to work through how the paper would shape out. Really, in the beginning, it was a lot of brainstorming where we were sitting, you know, outside by the pool on a break. And I still remember this to this day. And we went around the group just kind of menti

  2. Aug 3

    VRTAC Manager Minute- Turning NRLI Research into Suggestions for Reform: A Fresh Look at the RSA-911

    What if better data did not have to mean more paperwork? In this episode of Manager Minute, Sarah Leonard from the South Carolina Commission for the Blind and Pamela Clayton-Johnson from Maryland DORS join Carol Pankow to talk about their National Rehabilitation Leadership Institute research on the RSA-911. Their project takes a hard look at the growing administrative burden of federal reporting and asks a timely question: Are we collecting the right data for the right reasons? Sarah and Pamela discuss their recommendation to remove 71 data elements they believe exceed statutory requirements, while still maintaining accountability and protecting the integrity of VR data. The conversation also explores the importance of involving frontline staff, using data to improve services, and creating space for counselors to spend more time doing what matters most: helping individuals with disabilities achieve meaningful employment. Tune in for a thoughtful, practical, and refreshingly candid conversation about smarter data, stronger services, and leadership that challenges the field to think differently. Listen Here   Full Transcript {Music} Sarah: That's kind of my whole philosophy of who I am as a person. I'm always looking for how we can do things better and questioning, like why we're doing things like, why are we reporting this? Why are we doing that? And so I think that kind of shows up in the paper. Pamela: I think we chose to focus on streamlining the RSA nine over 11 report, because we recognize how much time and energy staff spend on administrative tasks and reporting requirements. Sarah: Were spending all this time to report this data. It must be important. It must be being used somewhere. but, I am not seeing that for some of this. Intro voice: Manager minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow. Carol: Welcome to the Manager Minute. Today, we're joined by Sarah Leonard, planning and reporting director from South Carolina Commission for the Blind, and Pamela Clayton-Johnson, program manager for the Eligibility Unit at Maryland DORS. So how are you doing today, Sarah? Sarah: Good. I'm doing great. How are you? Carol: Awesome. And Pamela, how about you? Pamela: I'm good. Enjoying all this rain that we had within the last week. Carol: Oh, nice. Well, we're in a heat wave. I'm in Minnesota, and, boy, it's been smoking hot. Sarah: It's been hot here. Carol: So Sarah and Pamela recently published a cohort project through the National Rehabilitation Leadership Institute that takes a thoughtful and timely look at the RSA 911. Their paper, Smarter Data, Better Outcomes, explores how reporting requirements have evolved over time, and the growing administrative burden on agencies, and what it would mean to streamline data collection in a way that would better support the core mission of vocational rehabilitation, which is helping individuals achieve employment and strengthening America's workforce. Their work raises important questions for the field about the balance between compliance, data, and outcomes, and offers practical ideas for rethinking how we can approach federal reporting moving forward. So let's dig in. So let's start with each of you. How did you get into vocational rehabilitation and what drew you to this work. And Pamela, I'm going to go to you first. Pamela: Okay. My interest in vocational rehabilitation began in 1999, after one of my close friends sustained a gunshot wound and became a quadriplegic. He was no longer able to do the work he had done before, but he still had a strong desire to work and remain independent. I began to help him research for programs and resources that could support him. And during that process, I discovered the Division of Rehabilitation Services DORS. So that experience changed my life and inspired me to pursue a career helping individuals with disabilities achieve their goal and match their full potential. I later earned my graduate degree in adult Education with a minor in Rehabilitation counseling, which allowed me to combine my passion for education, advocacy and services to others. Carol: That is an amazing story. You are the first person I've heard with like a story like that. And how is your friend doing today? Pamela: He is doing great. He is living independently. He has services in place for him. It's been so many years and he is doing well and he's thriving. So oh. Pamela: Yes. Carol: He's lucky to have a friend like you. I think that's awesome. Pamela: Yes. Carol: Sarah, how about you?How'd you get involved in VR? Sarah: My journey to VR is a recent one. I just started in VR in 2023, and I actually started my career as a public education teacher. And when I was looking to kind of make a career change, I was looking to kind of stay in the public service realm and ended up finding some job openings with the Commission for the blind and kind of my experience as an educator and everything. It just was kind of a natural fit. So I really enjoyed kind of the past three years now, and I'm excited for what's to come. Carol: Very cool. I remember when you first started, I feel like it was longer ago than three years. Time passes really fast. Sarah: It does. Carol: You both participated in NRLI live, and I just want to know a little bit about what that experience was like. And how did it shape your thinking as an emerging leader? And Sarah, I'll ping you first on that. Sarah: NRLI was an amazing experience and I learned so much from the staff from NRLI, but also just from connecting with so many VR professionals across the US. The way it's structured, you meet four times over the course of almost a year. And I think kind of as the year progresses, you are in different places in like kind of what you're doing at work. So when you come together each time as a group, you're kind of experiencing something different and everyone else kind of brings their own experiences and their different kind of situations currently occurring in their agencies to those conversations. So as like an emerging leader. It's just really helped me kind of see the bigger picture of VR on the national scale and how I kind of fit into that on the state level. Carol: Yeah, I love that so much because you see people from start to end because I get to help participate, at least in one of the weeks with doing some of the training, but really seeing how kind of the light bulbs are going on for you guys with that whole bigger national picture. I think that's awesome. Sarah: Yeah. Pamela: Right. Carol: How about you, Pamela? Pamela: Well, participating in the National Rehabilitation Leadership Institute was a very rewarding and eye opening experience for me. It gave me the opportunity to connect with rehabilitation professionals across the country, and who all share the same passion for helping individuals with disabilities succeed. The experience helped shape my thinking as an emerging leader by teaching me the importance of collaboration, advocacy and being servant leadership. I learned that leadership is not just about managing people, it's about listening and supporting others, creating positive change of course, and making sure the voice of the people we serve are heard. The institute also encouraged me to think bigger about the future of vocational rehabilitation and the impact we have in helping individuals achieve independency, employment and a better quality of life. It strengthened my confidence as a leader, and it also reminded me that growth happens when you are willing to learn from others and step outside of your comfort zone, and being a part of the group really helped me step outside my comfort zone. So it was an amazing experience for me. Carol: I love that, and I know they have that coaching component. And so you each get a like a mentor coach that is with you throughout the whole time. And that I just think adds an extra element, like a personal touch for you specifically and all of that. So it really is a great, great program. NRLI is about building leadership capacity and driving change. How did that show up in this project that you chose to take on? And I'll throw that to either of you. Sarah: I mean, that's our whole project. Pamela: right. Sarah: Our whole goal was to kind of advocate for some changes in terms of reporting, specifically the 911. So I think that's kind of my whole philosophy of who I am as a person. I'm always looking for how we can do things better and questioning like why we're doing things like, why are we reporting this? Why are we doing that? And so I think that kind of shows up in the paper. Carol: So what led you guys specifically to go after the RSA 911 for your project? I know you went through some iterations of different topics you were going to pick. Pamela: Yes. I think we chose to focus on streamlining the RSA 911 report because we recognize how much time and energy staff spend on administrative tasks and reporting requirements. Our goal was basically to look at ways to reduce the burden, so vocational rehabilitation staff could spend more time focusing on what truly matters, which is helping individuals with disabilities prepare for, obtain and maintain employment. We wanted to help shift the focus to building America's workforce and improving outcomes for the people we serve. This project taught me that leadership is about identifying the challenges and working together to find solutions, and being willing to advocate for meaningful change that benefit both the staff and consumers. It also showed me the importance, of course, of innovation and thinking about how systems and processes can work more effectively while still meeting federal requirements. So we ponder over a lot of different topics, and this is the one that we end up with. So I'm happy with all that we

  3. Jul 1

    VRTAC Manager Minute: Breaking the Mold: How an RSA Disability Innovation Fund Grant Is Opening Doors to High-Paying Tech Careers

    What if VR looked beyond traditional employment pathways? In this episode of Manager Minute, Carol Pankow sits down with Kristy Schenderlein, Vice President of Operations at the Blind Institute of Technology (BIT), to discuss how an RSA Disability Innovation Fund (DIF) demonstration grant is redefining career opportunities for people with disabilities. Learn how BIT combines accessible technical training, industry-recognized certifications, registered apprenticeships, and employer partnerships to prepare participants for careers in Salesforce, digital accessibility, AI, and project management. With participants earning family-sustaining wages and advancing into six-figure careers, this conversation challenges VR professionals to think differently about workforce development and the future of competitive integrated employment. Listen Here   Full Transcript: {Music} Kristy: Organizations are unfortunately trying to fit our community into a little box. What they think we can do, not what we know that we're capable of. You guys are really forging ahead with something that's never been done before. And so how do we get the VR groups, the VR counselors and teams to break out of what their traditional mold has been? Our participants earn an average of 75,000, and within three years of employment, the majority have been promoted and are making over six figures. Intro voice: Manager minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow. Carol: Welcome to the Manager Minute. Joining me in the studio today is Kristy Schenderlein, VP of operations at the Blind Institute of Technology. So Kristy, how are things going for you? Kristy: Very good. Ready for summer to start. Carol: Yes. It's starting here in a big way, let me tell you. We've got heat wave going on in Minnesota. So today we're going to talk about a Disability Innovation Fund project focused on expanding access to careers and technology for individuals with disabilities. And this is a space getting a lot of attention right now. But what does it actually look like to build something that works in practice? So let's dig in. So Kristy, let's start with your journey. How did you get connected to this work and to BIT? Kristy: Yeah, absolutely. So I myself am a member of the Blind and visually impaired community. I have Stargardt's disease, which is a juvenile form of macular degeneration. So I navigated through the education space as a visually impaired student, got my degree from University of Wyoming and Communications a long time ago. We don't want to talk about how long ago that was, but then I moved into a career as a litigation paralegal for about 15 years. And my husband and I opened our own hardware store, where, in addition to being a small business owner and doing whatever was needed of me that day, I also oversaw all of the operations there as well. And when we closed our store, I kind of was at a crossroads. I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do, except for the fact that I really wanted to look into the potential of working with employment in my community. Through my years, I had met with apprehension. Can I do the job? Shock? You know, some people would see, you know, especially when we were at the hardware store and I began using a cane in the middle of us owning the store. So, you know, people would walk in and I'd be standing there with my cane. And if I asked them, you know what I can help them with? Or if they'd see me, you know, talking to employees found out I was one of the owners. You know, I was just met with disbelief that I could actually be doing this job. You know, sometimes it was just blatant. No, you can't met with a I don't see how this can be done. So I'm not going to open my mind to even consider this. So I know that navigating those waters of employment for not only people within the blind and visually impaired community, but pan disability community as well, is difficult. And I know that it is not the lack of ability, it's the lack of opportunity. And so what could I do to help my community? And an acquaintance introduced me to Mike Hess, our executive director. Mike and I met. He told me about BIT, BIT's mission, his vision, and I jumped on board seven years ago. When I jumped on the ride, there was five of us, now there's almost over 50 of us, the majority of which identify with some form of disability, including in leadership. So we're really proud of that. It's been a wild ride for sure. Carol: I think it's really cool. I was looking a lot. I was looking you up. Of course, you know, I got to check out your story on LinkedIn and all the things as well. And then just perusing the BIT website and such. And I just think you have a really amazing cast of folks that are working there. Kristy: We do. Carol: And I really like what you're doing. Kristy: Thank you. Carol: And I could not believe, actually, since I found out about you, I had contacted like my folks back at State services for the Blind in Minnesota. I'm like, do you guys know about them? Like, because I sure didn't know about you when I was there. And I just think getting the word out more is super important. So I know you and I had spoken earlier and we were talking about your DEF grant application and that you guys actually had a model that you had built. And so you were basing this application on that. Can you talk a little bit about the different process and what problem you were trying to solve with your application for the project? Kristy: Yeah, absolutely. We know the numbers and how ugly they are that, you know, 70% of people with disabilities are either un or underemployed for the BVI community. It's even higher. It's at 80. I think those numbers have changed a little bit, but unfortunately that needle hasn't moved much in years. There's a lot of organizations out there that are saying that they're focusing on employment. But unfortunately, I mean, the numbers don't lie. You know, we're still where we're at. And what we found is no one is focusing on workforce development for higher level professional careers. And no one's really focusing, again on the professional or corporate America. Organizations are unfortunately, trying to fit our community into a little box, what they think we can do, not what we know that we're capable of. And so we really, truly believe that the answer to this, and I'm going to call it, you know, an epidemic, if you will, the unemployment of people with disabilities really has to do with workforce development and making sure that those people who, again, have the ability to do the job also have the opportunity. So we actually began offering Salesforce administration courses, gosh, back o late 2000 teens, we successfully put through eight blind or visually impaired professionals through a Salesforce Administration Certification prep course, and we choose Salesforce specifically because of the accessibility of their platform. And not that it is a B2C accessibility, but it's a B2B. So people within my community and those of us in the Blind and visually impaired community who are the hardest to serve because of the fact that we have to use assistive technology in order to do our jobs. It's allowing that community to get these certifications, get good, long lasting, sustainable careers. You know that they can actually be, you know, climbing up that corporate ladder, not being stuck down at the bottom. So we began our courses in 2020. We actually became the only training provider approved by Salesforce for people with disabilities globally. And that really came about because of our focus on two things. Number one, our courses being virtual, we are meeting. This was even before the pandemic, even before, you know, virtual courses were the thing. We were doing it virtually. We were meeting our community where they were at. We were also focused on employment. Our end goal at BIT is always employment. That's always where we keep our eye on employment. So, you know, we'd already started these courses. We began a Salesforce system integration service within BIT. We also began an accessibility consulting service and began using our students as at that time, interns, we met up with an intermediary, an apprenticeship intermediary called Safal Partners, who looked at our program and said, gosh, you guys already have an apprenticeship program. Kristy: What would be considered a wrap or a registered apprenticeship program through the Department of Labor? So they helped us get registered with the Department of Labor, and we became and still are the only organization, the only registered apprenticeships to include the Pan disability community to include the BVI community. And we're proud of that. And we're also saddened by that because we are the only ones that are doing it this way. The problem was we were only able to do it more of in a project based format, you know? So whenever we had projects, the apprentices worked well. Our apprenticeship program is a competency based program. There have been which now have been lifted, but requirements of 2000 hours really difficult to get those 2000 hours in a reasonable amount of time when it's just ebbs and flows of projects. So we really need to find a way to move into a more structured apprenticeship program. We added a, you know, the digital accessibility space a couple of years after we did the Salesforce admin apprenticeship and fortunately found the DIF grant to help us expand on what we already had running. Carol: So what did this when you get the DIF grant, what it allow you to do differently, moving from that more kind of pilot project kind of format into this structured model? Kristy: Mhm. Well, it allowed us to do essentially that. Number one is add structure. So as I mentioned, for our apprenticeship program, first we were able to add an

  4. Jun 1

    VRTAC Manager Minute: From Brainstorm to Breakthrough — Innovation Through the Minnesota Blind DIF Grant

    This episode features a conversation with Dacia VanAlstine, Project Director of the Evolve Employment Model demonstration project at Minnesota Blind. What began as a brainstorming conversation at a national conference evolved into an innovative Disability Innovation Fund (DIF) project focused on improving employment outcomes, retention, and participant engagement for individuals who are blind, low vision, or facing employment barriers. Dacia shares how the Evolve Employment Model is challenging traditional approaches to vocational rehabilitation through progressive employment strategies, benefits planning, workplace exposure opportunities, and faster, more responsive service delivery designed to keep participants connected and moving forward. The episode also explores the realities of building new models in real time — recognizing staff strengths, embracing flexibility, fostering collaboration, and "building the ship while sailing it." A thoughtful conversation on leadership, creativity, workforce development, and the future of vocational rehabilitation. Listen Here Full Transcript: {Music} Dacia: When we did our brainstorming, we looked at where could we improve and not just improve the customer experience, but the way that the staff do their work. Carol: How has your experience been working with your RSA project officer, and what's that partnership look like? Dacia: Cassandra is amazing. Doctor Deandra too. They are an amazing team. They are very real, which I so appreciate and so responsive and just, they answer the dumbest questions that I have and don't make me feel dumb. So I love it. Intro voice: Manager minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow. Carol: Welcome to the Manager Minute. Joining me in the studio today is Dacia VanAlstine, project director for the Evolve Employment Model demonstration at Minnesota Blind. And today we're going to dive into innovation, leadership and what it really looks like to take an idea and bring it to life in VR. And I have to say, this one is a little special for me. I had the good fortune to work with Dacia during my time at State Services for the Blind. And one thing that always stood out as her ability to take a concept, sometimes just an idea and turn it into something real, something actionable, and something that makes a difference. So, Dacia, how are things going? Dacia: Thank you for that, Carol. Things are going well. We're moving right along with this project. We are making some great strides, so it is fun to be here today. Carol: Excellent. So before we jump into the project itself, I'd like to start with your story. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about your background and how you found your way into vocational rehabilitation? Dacia: I think like a lot of people, I just kind of fell into it. I started when I was younger working in group homes, and that moved into becoming a program coordinator for group homes, which then moved into the day programming side of things at a, DT&H, which then turned into working with their supported employment license and then finding employers and jobs for people that were actually connected to the VR programs. So then I became interested in VR and started working for State Services for the Blind back in 2008 as a Vocational Rehab Technician. And then with my background, ended up getting some ARRA funding and I moved into employment services and have been working with the Dual Customers ever since. Carol: Wow. I did not know you kind of followed my same path because I did the whole group home work too, and DT&H and the whole shebang. That's pretty cool, I love it. So I know this project did not appear out of nowhere. It really grew organically. Can you talk a little bit about how the idea for Evolve Employment first came about and how it took shape? Dacia: It's kind of funny. A few of us had gone to CSAVR in the spring of 2024, and they had announced the DIF grants that they were going to be doing. It was Natasha Jerde, who's our executive director, and then Jon Benson, our deputy director, myself. We had our quality assurance person, Ashlyn Cahill there, and our fiscal person, Gabby Garcia. And then we had a counselor, Jason Dornbush, and we were all sitting in the back row. And it started with one little, hey, what if we applied for this? What could we do? There's so many different things we could do. And it turned into this whole thing and it just exploded from there. I don't even remember the session that was going on at the time, because we were in the back just brainstorming. It turned into this huge idea spark, and one person fed off the other person and then it just blew into this thing. Carol: I love when that happens. That is super fun. Now, the speaker up front was probably annoyed with you all, but I love when that, you know, you get that idea. In fact, you know, Jeff and I, back in the day, we were at a CSAVR conference and he's like going out trying to do a little interviews with somebody. After that session, I'm like, what are you doing? I'm going to do a podcast. This was way back in the day and I'm like, what's a podcast? And look at now the whole world is podcasting, but it cracked me up. I mean, we started that 11 years ago. Super fun. Dacia: Jeff's been podcasting ever since we went to an NFB conference and sat by the pool and Podcasted. Carol: I know it is super hilarious. It's like those organic kind of ideas really can bloom into something pretty cool. So at a high level, what is the Evolve Employment model and how do you think about the key components or buckets of the project? Dacia: Well, when we did our brainstorming, we looked at where could we improve and not just improve the customer experience, but the way that the staff do their work. The DIF grant allows us to really be in, it's in the title innovative. It allows us to try things. Really the idea is to try different tactics, different strategies, different approaches to things in the VR program that improves outcomes, improves experiences for staff, improves experiences for participants, and really leans into that dual customer approach to delivering services. Carol: Pretty cool, I love that. So what about the buckets in this project? I know there were different kind of fingers that you were looking into doing a lot of different things. Dacia: Well, a couple of the things that we're doing is job retention. We know that it's so much better if somebody can keep a job, it's better for the employer, it's better for the person, it's better for just everyone. So really looking at retention, also looking at how can we use workplace activities in order to help individuals that have limited experience in the workplace, limited experience with work in general, just the idea of work, you know, they may be somebody that's newer to work, maybe somebody that just hasn't worked in a long time, but just giving them some workplace activities under progressive employment. So looking at job shadows, tours, and it's something that VR does anyways, but this is done more intentionally and a little more structured to see if this makes a difference in people's lives, if people will choose better outcomes, because now they're being exposed to different types of careers than they would be normally. And so we have that progressive employment also looking at how can we speed things up for people, not speed things up to where we're rushing people through the process, but speed things up in a way that helps people stay engaged. We know looking at the data, that the longer it takes for somebody to get into a plan to get any services implemented, the more likely they are to drop off. And so looking at how can we make this faster for people, but in a meaningful way. And then looking at other aspects of where in the VR program we might be falling short, and that would be, besides the retention, looking at the training aspect of things, especially in the customer service and technology sectors. So looking at how can we get people into technology based customer service roles and building possibly a training program ourselves that can be passed down to the general program and using the training that already exists for individuals. And we're not looking at degree programs, we're looking at certificate programs, short term training, things that can help people get into a career faster. Not everybody has the luxury of taking a step back. Some people have to provide for their families. Some people just really don't want to go down that path. They want to get into a career as quickly as possible. So how can we lean into that training? Carol: That sounds awesome. I'm excited about this. I know when you and I had spoken before, you talked about this being like, you're kind of building the ship as you're sailing it. What does that look like during this first phase of implementation? Dacia: Well, in the beginning, we had picked up a bunch of staff from the General Vocational Rehabilitation, VRS, when they unfortunately had to have some layoffs. So we were able to grab some of their talent. And when we put together the position descriptions we put together, you know, what we thought we needed. And then as we started hiring them and then more staff, we realized that these staff had amazing talent. Besides what was just what was needed for this grant. So we were able to look at where does their talent lie and how can we help not only advance our project, but set our staff up because this is a short term project, so how can we set them up for their careers after they're done? And so looking at is their leadership ability there? How can we help them lead projects? Is there training opportunities? Are there other things that they can bring? Are there ways to expand this a little bit. You know, one of the things

  5. May 1

    VRTAC Manager Minute: Stay Curious, Stay in Charge: AI and Ethics in VR

    Artificial Intelligence is everywhere—but where does it actually fit in vocational rehabilitation? In this episode, Carol Pankow sits down with Dr. Robert Froehlich to cut through the noise and get real about AI in VR practice. This isn't hype—and it's not fear. It's practical, grounded guidance. 🔹 What AI should be doing (and what it absolutely shouldn't) 🔹 The ethical guardrails every VR professional needs to know 🔹 Why AI can boost efficiency—but can't replace judgment 🔹 Real risks: bias, hallucinations, and "too helpful" answers 🔹 How to stay compliant, confident, and in control The takeaway? AI can be a powerful assistant—but it should never be the decision-maker. Because when it comes to careers, independence, and life direction… that's human territory. Listen Here Full Transcript: {Music} Rob: Ai, Artificial Intelligence, is not and should not replace the professional.   She's listening to this podcast, and the professional said, don't be afraid that AI is going to take your job. However, do be concerned that your job could be taken by someone who knows how to use AI better than you. CRCC indicates that some of the potential benefits for AI could be increased counselor capacity, enhanced job exploration, skills credential matching, things like that. Intro voice: Manager minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow. Carol: Welcome to the Manager Minute. Joining me in the studio today is Dr. Rob Froehlich from George Washington University, who's been thinking deeply about the ethical dimensions of AI and rehabilitation counseling. Rob's a colleague of mine and also serves on the VRTAC grant. So welcome Rob, how are you? Rob: I am doing well and thank you for having me today. And I have been thinking deeply. Let's hope that we get something worthwhile from all that deep thought. Carol: Oh, I'm sure we will. So we've talked on previous episodes about how vocational rehabilitation agencies are beginning to experiment with artificial intelligence. You know, we've got everything from transcription tools to drafting reports to analyzing labor market information. But today we want to take the conversation in a slightly different direction. Instead of focusing on what AI can do, we want to talk about what it should do and what it should not do. When you're working in a profession built on ethics, informed choice, and professional judgment. So let's dig in. So, Rob, before we jump into AI, could you share a little about your path into vocational rehabilitation and what led you to focus on ethics and technology in this field. Rob: Sure. Absolutely. Thanks, Carol. So I've been providing technical assistance and continuing education at GW in collaboration with state VR agencies for more than 20 years. I'm an associate professor of counseling, a certified rehabilitation counselor, and a licensed professional counselor. Most of my research has been focused around ethics, because I've always found that to be a really fascinating sector. There's some topics in our profession that are right or wrong and are dichotomous in nature, but really the vast majority of topics we deal with fall somewhere in between. In the past, I've been the chair of the CRCC Ethics Committee, and in that capacity, I had the ability to sharpen my ethical decision making skills. But to your question, why ethics in AI. I feel like we're at an inflection point, and many people are trying to figure out where AI fits, what it is, what it can be used for. And rehabilitation counselors are but one population asking the question of how will AI impact my work? To put this inflection point in this moment in time that we're at into context, think about some other big inflection points the industrial revolution, the movement from horses to cars, or more recently, things like the introduction of social media or even the pandemic. Absolutely. Every one of them changed the way that we do things in society and in our world. So they're all big changes. But even this AI moment that we're in, we can navigate through this. Carol: I think so too. I like that you brought up all those other big inflection points because I thought about back when I was at State Services for the Blind and we were emailing parents, and parents were going, hey, could you just text us like, we don't, we don't really check our email anymore. And it was this huge to do. Yeah. Can we let counselors text people instead of emailing? And oh my gosh, we agonized for months and wrote up policy and all the pieces. But you know what? It all ended up working out just fine. Rob: Yeah. So Carol, I'm reminded when I talked about social media, Oh, forever and a day, I was doing ethics and social media training. And when we started out, the whole message and it kind of relates to what you're saying, the whole message was, and I'm going to date myself here, but like a kind of like a Nancy Reagan just say no. Which ,back in the 80s, there was this big program of that's how to deal with addictions. Just say no. Now, we all know it's much more complicated than just say no. But as that message evolved, so did our message with social media and really like the Just say no was like, oh, no, never. Like don't friend, don't do, don't, don't use anything. Yeah. We found effective uses for it that still are in compliance with policy that still relate to legislation. So I think we're going to probably start like probably a little tighter with AI and then things that are going to naturally evolve over time as they tend to with big revolutions like this. Carol: Yeah, that's a really good point, Rob, because it does. Everybody starts out having, you're kind of in a freak out mode. You're like, no, nope, we're not doing that. Oh, we're going to just a little bit in there. And now you're like, I can't even believe we had a fit about that. Like, it just seems such a part of every day that everybody texts, you know, like stuff like that. You just... Rob: Exactly. Carol: It becomes normal. So a lot of professions are talking about AI right now, but vocational rehabilitation involves helping people make major life decisions about careers, education and independence. So what makes the ethical conversation around AI particularly important in rehabilitation counseling? Rob: Yeah. So the first thing that comes to mind for me that I want to just stress for people is that AI, artificial intelligence, is not and should not replace the professional. It's really important for us to remember that AI, artificial intelligence, is a set of tools and things that are supposed to be helpful to us, but they're not supposed to replace the functions that we play. One of the essential functions that I'm speaking about, the essential functions of being a counselor or a rehabilitation counselor, is the use of critical thinking as it applies to decision making for people that we collaborate with and provide services to. One of the biggest reasons that we're paid for professional function is to use our critical judgment. We don't want to abdicate that to another entity. We want to make sure that we're using AI tools as just that tools to make things more efficient where possible. And we want to make sure to protect confidentiality, like almost above all, to be able to have oversight regarding decisions that are made, but at the same time. So we want to get that efficiency. We want to kind of have oversight, but we want to make sure that we don't delegate tasks or decisions to AI that go back to those life decisions about career, education and independence. Information is one thing, but decisions is an entirely different set of principles. Carol: That is such a good point because when you look at when you put anything into, whether you're using something like ChatGPT or Notebook LM or Google Gemini, you know, or even Microsoft Copilot, you've got all these different types of AI tools that can sit alongside and help you do something, but it's not like you can just throw in a question and it's going to perfectly answer it. This is it. Here's the beautiful plan for the customer. And somehow they know them and all the nuances about that individual, that just isn't the case because you would have to feed it so much stuff. And it's not the counselor. It doesn't have, you know, it does have, I don't know if you call it thinking ability or how it does its reasoning or brings up, It's, you know... Rob: Well it's math. It's just basic math. It's yes, no, yes. No. Carol: Yeah. It's not the human element and all the other parts of it. So you can't just like abdicate. I still remember last year we were somewhere in one of the states, and the hotel was trying out robots that were bringing things to your room, like, say you forgot your razor and you called down to the front desk instead of a person running up, this robot showed up. But I don't think we're going to have robots taking over the hotel and making the beds and doing all the things I think people envision. This is like Terminator, you know, when you had all the little whatever they were looked like people and then they're back into their little metal bodies. I don't see that. I mean, just not yet. Rob: Yeah. Caro: So rehab counselors always emphasize things like informed choice, confidentiality and professional judgment. How do these values shape how we should think about AI in practice? Rob: Yeah. So those are really high level and important topics for us to discuss. And as a part of informed choice and everything that we do in vocational rehabilitation is about informed choice and is centered around informed choice, but as a part of informed choice, we want to make sure that we have the capacity to understand and to be able to explain what tools we're using, why we're using them, and wh

  6. Apr 1

    VRTAC Manager Minute Stop Chasing Perfect: How Washington DSB Is Moving Faster—and Getting Real VR Results

    In the latest episode of Manager Minute, host Carol Pankow sits down with Michael Mackillop, Executive Director of the Washington State Department of Services for the Blind, to explore how one agency is rethinking how VR services are delivered—and the powerful results that follow. From dramatically shortening the time to services to introducing milestone planning that keeps customers moving forward, Washington DSB is demonstrating what can happen when agencies streamline processes and keep the focus on people. The conversation highlights real outcomes, including customers achieving meaningful careers with wages averaging over $39 per hour, and the cultural and programmatic shifts helping individuals rediscover confidence, expand their goals, and pursue careers they once thought were out of reach. This episode offers an honest, practical, and inspiring look at how VR leaders can rethink processes, strengthen partnerships, and build systems that help people move toward what's possible. Listen Here Full Transcript: {Music} Michael: A lot of customers. The feedback is it's great and a lot of counselors. The feedback is it's great. Carol: It makes brilliant sense because I think people spend so much time. You're letting perfect get in the way of the good. Michael: Learning as an adult is not easy. Learning to do new things, and the frustrations and the anger that can come from having to adapt to the environment that doesn't adapt to you. I think that now is the time, if any time is to show the power and the impact of vocational rehabilitation for the economy and for our communities. Intro voice: Manager minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow. Carol: Well, welcome to the manager minute. Joining me in the studio today is Michael Mackillop, Washington Blind Executive Director. So how are things in Washington, Michael? Michael: Things are doing good. There's a little bit of Seattle Seahawks fever. Carol: Uh, yes, Seattle, Wahoo, Go Seahawks! Michael: And there's probably some growing excitement for hosting matches of the World Cup. So there's that whole sports thing. And today we're back to rain, which makes us feel it's just this nice gentle drip. It's not an atmospheric river where it's monsoon rain and all the snow from the mountains. It's just a nice, gentle rain. So things are decently good here in Seattle. Carol: Oh, good for you. Well, I have an affinity for the whole Seattle area. I have two brothers out there and lots of nieces and nephews and yeah, all the people I love to come. And I remember, gosh, Michael, I remember meeting you. I feel like it was like 13 years ago or something. Michael: At least, yeah. Carol: At least! (Michael laughs) Carol: You were friends with Jon Benson, my deputy, when I was at SSB. And so we got hooked together. And then I remember I would always tell Jon I'd be like, Call Michael, what are they doing at Washington Blind? Because, you know, you want to see what's going on? And in fact, I remember you guys calling us because we went on an Order of Selection, which is not common for a blind agency. And I remember when Lou Olma was still there, she had called. She's like, oh, you know, asking some questions about that. So I felt like we had some shared experiences together. Michael: Yeah. And we connected, I think, through CSAVR and NCSAB conferences and I mean plug out to them. It's just such an incredible place to really meet people from around the country and become long term supports. Carol: Right. It takes a village to do this job. So the more people you can meet, good shout out for like connecting with other people and just trying to build those relationships, because then you have them way over a decade later, you know, going on two decades later. Michael: And you don't have to go it alone. Right? I mean, to try to go through something like Order of selection, say, alone that... Carol: Yeah. Michael: But when you know, you got people or community of practices that are helping you through it. So it's  my plug to be connected to the national scene because you can't do it alone. Carol: 100%. I'm putting an exclamation point behind that one. Well, I happen to be perusing because I had my knee replaced last month. So as I'm laying and putting my leg up and icing and all the things, I was reading lots of the social media because I kind of was behind a little bit. So I'm in LinkedIn and, you know, accepting requests and connecting with other people. And I read, you're awesome, Michaels posting on LinkedIn, and you posted something and I just went, oh my gosh, it made me then go into your website. And then I'm like, all over your website and I'm watching your YouTube videos. It was super fun. So for our listeners, what caught me was Michael was reporting on this annual report they had done, and he was talking about the North Region team supporting 51 customers to attain their career goals, three of whom were able to retain their established small businesses. And then all the cool kinds of work people were in with STEM careers and education and finance and administrative and human services. And then it really hooked me with the average wage of 39.30 per hour. And then he does this nice Congratulations out to his folks. I'm like, what is happening there? Because that's what we want in VR. You want those family sustaining wages and all the good stuff. So long story short, listeners, I had to get Michael on and go, what is the secret sauce happening in Washington? What are they doing there? Because I thought this was super cool. So, Michael, before we launch into kind of what you're doing, I just want to get a little caught up on how did you start in VR? How'd you get there and how did you come into a blindness agency. Michael: Sometimes accidentally? Uh, perhaps a little bit reluctantly. I've been with this agency for 25 years, and I started as an AT specialist. I had experience in adult education in computers. And then I got a job, actually, at the lighthouse for the blind, Seattle Lighthouse for the Blind as an instructor. Where the supervisor, because I had studied American Sign Language, is a long story about why I did that and got connected in with Seattle's deaf community in the 90s and the Deaf Blind community as well. We have a very robust and vibrant deaf blind community in the Puget Sound area, and there were a number of individuals who were Deaf, Blind that were working at the Seattle Lighthouse that really needed computer skills. And so I didn't know anything about adaptive technologies, but I knew about Sign Language, I knew about computers, and I knew about adult education. And so that supervisor gave me six months. And to figure out the screen readers and screen magnifiers and braille displays and to start training. And so it was lovely to be able to, you know, directly communicate with students that, you know, hadn't touched a computer in their lives. That got me, you know, into the Blindness and Vocational Rehabilitation is a big part of, you know, people at the Lighthouse wanting to promote or work elsewhere. Uh, work out into the integrated community. And so there was experience with DSB. I was reluctant to be a state employee. I promise you that once I gave that up and got hired on a DSB, just the passion for the customer, the mission, the initiative, it kind of dispelled my notions of what a state agency is and who works at a state agency. So obviously I've loved it so much. I've been there for 25 years plus, so. Carol: That is crazy. I had no idea. You're I think you're my first guest, that's come on. That's come from this AT background. Good for you. Very cool. I love it because it's always fun to see people's paths in. We all take a different way, but you come in, and then you stick with it because you love it. Like you just love it. Michael: Exactly. Carol: Well, in your December's report. Oh my gosh, what really stood out I was I love the customer voices. You know, you had somebody on there, I think. I don't know if it's Francis working into her 70s, people that were earning promotions and discovering entirely new career paths. And when you look at all those stories, I just wonder from your perspective, what does success actually mean to you as a VR director? Michael: Yeah, I mean, I really love that the breadth and the depth of those career choices that people find through our services, their personal journey of discovery, finding the strengths that didn't know they had and that that's what excites me. And that's what I hear again and again and again. People not believing in themselves until they get some of those adaptive skills. It's so often the key to expanding their own self-assessment, their self-expectations. Losing your vision is traumatic, there's no question. And acquiring a disability as an adult. And that can really impact your belief in yourself and what you believe you can do. And for me, all those career achievements, they represent that journey of that person who I've heard the story so many times that they sat on a sofa thinking there is no future for them. There is no way to get into work. Their self-value had diminished so much because of the change in vision, and then something sparking that bravery of calling the agency. Whether they hear about the agency the first time or they've heard about it, and they get that courage up to call us, and it's a lot. I mean, to honor that connection, to say, I need to change. I need to get off the sofa. I need to do the work to be who I want to be. It takes a lot. And so honoring that those successes that we hear about the just a ray of education or healthcare or last year we had two physicians. We had two people that were physicians. And there's no career that's not possible for that individual, whatever that individ

  7. Mar 2

    Manager Minute: Stop Letting Documentation Drive the Bus — How Smart Tools Are Changing VR

    VR burnout isn't about caring too little. It's about caring so much… while buried in documentation. In this episode of Manager Minute, VR counselor Stephanie Nelson shares how she built VocRehabTools.com — a free collection of smart, practical tools (both AI-powered and non-AI) designed to give counselors their time back. 📝 Faster case notes 📊 Smarter assessments 🎯 Clearer job alignment 💬 Custom interview prep 📈 Real-time SSI earnings calculations Not to replace counselors. To free them up to actually counsel. We also tackle the real questions: ✔ Can AI be used ethically in VR? ✔ How do we protect confidentiality? ✔ What does human-first leadership look like in a tech-driven world? If you've ever thought, there has to be a better way to do this — this episode is for you. Listen Here Full Transcript: {Music} Stephanie: That's when I had the aha moment and realized, hey, I can build something that will automatically generate the types of prompts or complete the types of tasks that I've already been given AI to help me with my work, but in an even faster and more efficient way. I want it to be sure that I included reminders about how to use AI safely and ethically on the site. My goal is really just not to recreate the wheel, but to have the VocRehab tools be like a one stop shop for a variety of stuff that actually make our jobs easier. Intro Voice: Manager Minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow. Carol: Well, welcome to the manager minute. Joining me in the studio today is Stephanie Nelson, VR counselor extraordinaire. So, Stephanie, how's it going? Stephanie: It's going well. Thank you for having me. Carol: I'm super excited about this. So for our listeners, I stumbled across Stephanie on LinkedIn. You know, I'm just scanning and her post, it caught my attention and I shared it with some coworkers. And Stephanie is a creator of some super cool, time saving tools that are meant to support VR counselors from doing all that excessive, crazy paperwork so that you all can focus on people. So I don't want to give away the farm before we get into this, so let's dig in. So, Stephanie, you've been in Voc. Rehab and Human Services for more than a decade. Tell our listeners a little bit about your journey and how did you find VR and what experiences shaped the professional you are today? Stephanie: All right. So I promise that I'm not going to give you my full life story, my journey in VR. It actually started when I was a very young child. My mom was and she still is. This is probably her last year, a very dedicated special education teacher, and she was a transition coordinator for many years as well. So I grew up with sort of this like front row seat to the challenges that people with disabilities face. So I even remember visiting the local VR office with my mom many times as a kid. And while I didn't understand what the heck vocational rehabilitation was, but what I could tell was that the people in that office and my mom, they were helping people overcome challenges to improve their lives. And that just really stuck with me, that you could have a job where you help people overcome challenges. And I just thought that was really, really cool. So another experience that I think shaped me to be well suited for VR is that I actually started working when I was just 15 years old. So I've always had like the value of work really ingrained in me. But when it came time for college, I did quite a few different trials and errors on different majors and programs and schools, and I finally landed in a fully online program for criminal justice with the plan to become a probation officer. Because I thought, what better way to help people improve their lives than to help them after they had legal issues? But I soon learned a hard lesson after doing some administrative work in that field, and that there's a big difference between helping people who want your help and trying to help people who are required to meet with you. So when I looked for a new career path where I could still apply my criminal justice degree, that's when I found an administrative role with Virginia DARS, fell in love with the mission immediately, and it was kind of a full circle moment, because that's when I finally understood exactly what they do at that VR office that I visited with my mom when I was younger. So within a year, I was promoted to what Virginia DARS calls the employment Services Specialist Senior role. And the more I was in that role, I realized that I really wanted to be a VR counselor because I wanted an even more direct role in helping clients and solving the problems. And I really wanted to streamline lots of the VR processes that I could witness in my employment specialist role, but I just didn't have the authority to change anything from there. So I went back for my master's degree, waited for the right opening, and stepped into the counselor role. And I've been here for almost four years now. Carol: That is amazing. I love your background. It's so fun because you come in from, I had a mom too that got me into the field. So it's really fun that you come in kind of when you grow up in that and then use that. It really does help to shape you. That is exciting. And I bet a lot of good people come out of Virginia DARS for sure. I've done several podcasts with other colleagues. Yeah, that you have there. You guys always have a lot of very cool things going on. I like how your mind thinks, because when you and I had a chance to chat and you talked about I always like improving things. So how did this concept for vocrehabtools.com really take hold for you? Like, was there some moment where you went, oh, we need a better way to do this or what happened? How did this come about? Stephanie: Kind of like you said. That's just kind of how my mind is. I've always been an optimizer, like, since I was also a kid. My brain just it naturally looks at any process. And I'm automatically going to ask, how can I make this better? How can I do this faster or more efficient? So since I started working at DAR's about 11 years ago, I probably said to myself that we need a better way to do this almost every single day. But as far as vocrehabtools.com goes, that concept really took hold just about 4 or 5 months ago, and it was actually sparked, you know, because I have that lifelong I'm always trying to learn. So of course, when AI has taken hold, I was really wanting to learn more about that. So it was sparked when I was listening to several podcasts about AI, and they kept mentioning how AI could be used to create apps. So one day I finally decided to give making an app a try myself. And when I saw that it was true that AI really could allow me to build apps and web pages quickly and easily, that's when I had the aha moment and realized, you know, hey, I can build something that will automatically generate the types of prompts or complete the types of tasks that I've already been given AI to help me with my work, but in an even faster and more efficient way. So it made me realize I could also do it in a way that I didn't have to just keep it to myself that other people could use it too. So that's it was about just a few months ago, and that's where it all started. Carol: That was super cool though. Your first post that I saw and then I'm following you, I'm like, I gotta follow this person because I really just gotta be in my network. I gotta see what's going on with this. I could not even believe it. I'm like, wow, it's super exciting and I love AI. I mean, Jeff and I, we've gotten to do a few different podcasts with different folks about lots of AI initiatives in VR across the country, but not quite like yours. Theirs is a whole different deal. So what kind of gaps or frustrations were you seeing in VR practice, especially when you talk about doing assessments and documentation and progress reporting that convinced you a new toolset was necessary? Stephanie: Well, for me, there were there were lots, but there's really three main frustrations in those areas that really, really pushed me to build this. And first and  foremost is that case notes and by case notes, I mean, good case notes. They just take too long to write. You know, I'm often on the move because I do adults and students and schools and all that. Or I'm working between, you know, all types of different demands. So trying to capture and document all the details and all the nuances of a 45 minute meeting or conversation you just had while you're in your car or while you're between appointments. It's just stressful. So by the time you sit down at a desk, you know, usually the mental spark is gone and the details are fuzzier and fuzzier. So that was the main one is case notes. The second was in terms of assessments. There's usually like a bottleneck with formal vocational evaluations. And they're either really expensive to outsource or they just take a long time to get completed. And when I say long time, I mean mostly from like the client's perspective, because, you know, they don't usually understand all of the logistics and the reasons why things take a while in VR. So where something may be quick in our eyes as VR professionals, from the client's perspective, it can seem super long, and I was always really frustrated that my options seemed to be either skip the formal evaluation so they can move forward and just run with whatever information we already have, or make my clients wait. So the assessment tool that I built on there was really to kind of bridge that gap. And the third main frustration was just the mental bandwidth issue of working in VR and documenting the progress and the case notes, and coming up with the individualized progress measures for every client and writing justif

  8. Feb 2

    VRTAC Manager Minute: When Systems Connect: A DIF Model Linking VR, TANF, and Employment

    What happens when workforce innovation stops focusing on individuals alone—and starts supporting entire families? In this episode of Manager Minute, Carol Pankow sits down with Lucas Halverson and Kathy Davis of ServiceSource to explore Families Achieving Self-Sufficiency Together (FASST)—a Disability Innovation Fund initiative that's connecting VR, TANF, employers, and community partners in a powerful new way. You'll hear how FASST: ·       Tackles generational poverty through a family-centered employment model ·       Supports disconnected youth and adults with disabilities across multiple states ·       Complements VR services without duplicating them ·       Uses AI-powered job matching and strong employer partnerships ·       Creates real solutions during Order of Selection and funding constraints This conversation is a must-listen for VR leaders, program managers, and partners looking for scalable, practical models that expand impact without expanding cost.   Listen Here   Full Transcript:   {Music} Lucas: The big goal is to break the cycle of poverty. We want to create lasting self-sufficiency, reduce the need for benefits and things of that nature.   Kathy: The beauty of this project is that it was originally designed for six sites across multiple states.   Lucas: We don't intend as a program to supplant programs that already exist, but we do intend to supplement or fill the gaps that exist.   Kathy: We are one as part of this project, and you would not have to pay fee for service or contract us. We're already being paid through the grant.   Intro Voice: Manager Minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow.   Carol: Welcome to the manager minute. In today's episode, we're diving into one of the exciting initiatives funded through the Rehab Services Administration's Disability Innovation Fund 21st Century Workforce Grants. And these grants were designed to spark new ideas and scalable strategies that help youth and adults with disabilities prepare for and succeed in today's rapidly changing world of work. From artificial intelligence and virtual reality to cross-system partnerships and new ways of engaging employers. These projects are testing innovative models that could reshape how we think about disability employment for the 21st century. And one of those projects, launched just this past year, is led by ServiceSource, and it's taking a unique approach to helping families move toward self-sufficiency and employment. And joining me today to talk about it are Lucas Halverson, project director, and Kathy Davis, one of the key leaders behind this groundbreaking effort. So how goes it, Lucas?   Lucas: Hey, good morning Carol. Everything's going very well. Thank you so much for inviting us to talk about our project today. We're extremely excited to be here to talk about our project Families Achieving Self-sufficiency Together. We also call it fasst with two S's. So thanks again for having us.   Carol: You bet. How about you, Kathy? How are you doing?   Kathy: I'm doing great, Carol, thanks so much for having us. We are definitely excited to speak with you about our grant, which is short for that Disability Innovation Fund.   Carol: Excellent. Yeah, I've had a lot of experience talking with other DIF grantees in like the C.D.E.F. We always give them the little alphabet soup label, but there have been different focuses each year that RSA had released the Disability Innovation Fund grant. So it's been really fun to catch up and see what things are happening. So let's dig in. So before we get into the details of your project, Lucas, could you tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to be involved in this work?   Lucas: Yeah, absolutely. So my entire professional career is related to helping others. That started as an employment development specialist right after my bachelor's degree, focusing on all things employment placement, support services, community based, competitive, integrated employment. I transitioned from that into helping individuals with more significant disabilities prepare for employment. I've done a little bit of group and individual substance abuse counseling, but largely the last 15 years or so, I've been in the world of vocational rehabilitation in a variety of roles, both on the public side and the private sector side, and was happy through those wonderful years to get my master's degree in rehab counseling and my certified rehabilitation counselor credential. So to present day, I've been with ServiceSorce for over ten years, and when the grant was awarded, I looked at it as an opportunity to still stay in the world that I love of helping people, but knew it would expand my skills and really looked at it as an opportunity to bring a pretty large proposal to life. And so here we are, fresh into the second year of our project and seeing all of that happen. So very exciting.   Carol: It's very cool. I love finding people's stories, like how you found your way into this world of work, because we all came in a long and winding road different ways, but make it in. And then once you're in, you're kind of hooked. It's hard to leave. So, Kathy, how about you? How did you come to be involved in this work?   Kathy: Well, same. I love people's stories about how they find their vocation. And I have also been serving individuals with disabilities for a very long time, well over 20 years. I started as a volunteer in high school with Easter Seals, and from there, I did volunteer work with therapeutic horseback riding. I eventually also went back to school and got my master's in rehab counseling and became a nonprofit community mental health counselor and a traumatic brain injury program manager. And because of my background in counseling and also a previous master's degree in economics, when the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act was being discussed,  and the emphasis changed to or included employers. My econ background and my master's rehab counseling background made me a little bit of a unicorn, and I was hired by a Blind services agency around 2012. And then I also did business relations for them. And then I was hired to start the first business relations program at one of the VR agencies. And really, my golden thread throughout all of my career has been starting new programs. No matter what role I've been in. I love new things, I love innovation, and so DIF has been a perfect fit for me. I'm also working on my doctorate degree, almost finished with that and doing a Pre-ETS dissertation. So I have a really strong interest in evaluation. And so evaluation actually brought me to this project. And I serve as an internal evaluator for it.   Carol: Wow, you are a unicorn. Let me say that is exciting. Very fun. Thanks for sharing that. So when you two first saw the grant announcement, what caught your attention and made you want to apply?   Lucas: Yeah. So this DIF grant cycle the F grant cycle was the first time nonprofit organizations were eligible to apply. So it was a unique opportunity for ServiceSource. And so our program development team recognized that our agency had the capacity to try to take this on, and also the expertise to successfully apply with a strong proposal, but then also administer and monitor the program successfully. So our organization, ServiceSource, is a leading service provider and employer for individuals with disabilities. So it made us well positioned to deliver impactful outcomes under this project. The DIF grant in general definitely aligns very closely with our mission and our vision and our values. And we have affiliated organizational model that we felt would provide a strategic advantage with this project. So it's allowing us to have a fairly large geographic reach. We have several teams across the country all working together on this project, and it also allows us to leverage partnerships and resources that have already been in existence across these teams and these affiliates to have the greatest impact that we can. And so really, the alignment and the capacity gave us confidence that we could do what this grant needed us to do. And so we're in that second year and really getting rocking and rolling now.   Carol: Yeah, I hadn't realized that ServiceSource had such a big footprint because I was familiar with the work ServiceSource did in Florida, and Tina down in Florida and working with the Florida General Agency. In fact, we did a podcast about that and that particular model, and I knew there were little fingers of that kind of had spread out, I believe, into a few different states, but I hadn't realized, like, really how expansive ServiceSource was. So that is an excellent point that it really positioned you well for this. Now your project family is achieving self-sufficiency together. As you said FASST with the two S's. So no, we don't have a typo. If they read the transcript later, we didn't have a spelling error. It is the FASST you really launched at the end of June. I know that first year is always a very big planning year and getting things ready. Can you give us a quick overview of what the initiative is about, and really what motivated your focus on families?   Lucas: Yeah, absolutely. Really the high level focus aims to help disconnected youth and disconnected adults with disabilities achieve competitive, integrated employment. In addition, you know, using early intervention workforce reintegration strategies to support long term success. That's where the whole self-sufficiency piece comes in, uniquely for our project. But overall, FASST is, as I mentioned, a multi-state initiative, and we want to empower disconnected adults and youth with disabilities. Our core focus is indiv

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