Beyond the Resume

Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker
  • 4.5 (8)
  • CAREERS
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Co-hosted by industry veterans, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, the weekly Beyond the Resume Podcast features interviews with some of the best known real estate experts in the U.S. By exploring how they built their successful careers and the impact they have made to the communities around them we hope to educate and inspire anyone building or thinking of building a career in real estate. Join us as we go Beyond the Resume.

  1. Beyond the Resume podcast with Sarah Garland (Financing the gap)

    1D AGO

    Beyond the Resume podcast with Sarah Garland (Financing the gap)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Sarah Garland, Interim Head of Affordable Housing at CBRE, to discuss the evolving world of affordable housing finance, career growth in commercial real estate, and the human impact behind the deals. Sarah shares how CBRE’s Affordable Housing Group operates nationally across debt financing, investment sales, and investment banking—supporting developers who build or refinance properties with income or rent restrictions. She explains how financing tools like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA loans, and bridge lending help make “Capital A Affordable” housing projects possible. The conversation explores Sarah’s unconventional path into the industry—from working with a small homebuilder to the Housing Department of Los Angeles and later spending 13 years at Fannie Mae before joining CBRE. Along the way, she reflects on how she discovered her true strengths as a deal structurer and manager, rather than a business originator. Sarah also shares practical career advice for students and early-career professionals interested in affordable housing and real estate finance. Her key tips include conducting informational interviews, building strong professional networks, and remembering that your first job likely won’t define your entire career. The discussion dives into the biggest challenge facing affordable housing today: rising construction costs and the difficulty of assembling enough financing to make deeply affordable projects feasible. Despite those hurdles, Sarah emphasizes the powerful mission behind the industry—helping working families access housing they can afford. One of the most powerful moments of the episode comes when Sarah recounts witnessing a resident win a housing lottery for an affordable unit in New York. Watching someone realize they could finally live in a home they never thought possible reinforced why affordable housing work matters. From leadership lessons and hiring philosophy to mentorship and industry collaboration, this episode offers an inside look at the people and partnerships that make affordable housing development possible. If you’re interested in affordable housing finance, commercial real estate careers, housing policy, or mission-driven development, this conversation delivers valuable insights from one of the industry’s leading voices. CHAPTERS (02:28) Inside CBRE’s Affordable Housing Platform (04:19) What Affordable Housing Financing Actually Means (07:12) Sarah’s Career Journey into Real Estate (19:24) Career Advice for Students Entering the Industry (21:42) Biggest Challenges in Affordable Housing Finance (24:00) A Powerful Resident Story That Defines the Work (33:42) What Sarah Looks for When Hiring LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/mNUixd3qBt4 Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9 -- Affordable housing, affordable housing finance, CBRE affordable housing, commercial real estate careers, affordable housing development, housing finance, real estate leadership, affordable housing industry, housing development financing, Beyond the Resume podcast

    37 min
  2. Beyond the Resume Podcast with Evan Holladay (Scaling impact one block at a time)

    MAR 2

    Beyond the Resume Podcast with Evan Holladay (Scaling impact one block at a time)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Evan Holladay, founder of Holladay Ventures, to explore how affordable housing development can be both mission-driven and scalable. Evan shares how he transitioned from economics student to affordable housing developer after volunteering with Family Scholar House and witnessing firsthand the impact of housing paired with supportive services. He explains how Holladay Ventures has developed over 1,200 affordable housing units in Nashville in just six years—partnering with nonprofits like Samaritan Recovery Community to combine recovery services and deeply affordable housing in one integrated model. For students, aspiring developers, and impact-driven real estate professionals, this episode offers tactical insights into affordable housing finance, nonprofit partnerships, entrepreneurship, and building a career that blends profit with purpose. Chapters (00:51) Why Holladay Ventures Exists Evan explains launching Holladay Ventures with his wife to build intentionally designed, impact-focused affordable housing in Nashville. (02:13) From Pre-Med to Developer Pivoting from chemistry to economics, discovering student housing development, and earning his first opportunity by adding value. (04:09) Windows, Volunteer Work & The Affordable Housing Spark How volunteering at Family Scholar House revealed the power of real estate to create real community impact. (10:40) First Deals, First Wins Submitting first-ever HOME Fund applications, closing 192 units in Baton Rouge, and cutting his teeth in LIHTC development. (18:15) Podcasting into BiggerPockets Launching a mastermind from scratch, leveraging a BiggerPockets appearance, and building a 12-month affordable housing coaching program. (23:08) Samaritan Recovery Community & Shelby House Redeveloping a nonprofit campus into 195 affordable units plus recovery facilities—and the life-changing story of Chris Proctor. (27:29) Scaling the Model & Solving the Housing Crisis Expansion into Columbus and the Southeast, nonprofit land partnerships, creative capital stacks, and long-term growth plans. LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/iafgMuLTaEk Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    37 min
  3. Beyond the Resume Podcast with Alex Viorst (Inside the Preservation Lending Playbook)

    FEB 23

    Beyond the Resume Podcast with Alex Viorst (Inside the Preservation Lending Playbook)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Alex Viorst, Executive Director at PGIM Real Estate, to break down the world of affordable housing finance — with a deep focus on preservation, Section 8 assets, and agency lending. Alex shares how PGIM Real Estate operates within Prudential’s debt and equity platform, how Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and FHA financing work in affordable housing, and why preservation deals have become increasingly competitive. He explains the lending process from loan sizing and pre-screening to HUD applications, rate locks, and closing timelines. With 31 years in the industry, Alex reflects on starting as a construction-to-perm lender at LaSalle National Bank, transitioning from international economic development ambitions at Georgetown to community development in Chicago, and building a career in affordable housing loan originations. He discusses how Section 8 assets evolved from misunderstood risk to highly sought-after investments and how agency production goals influence deal strategy throughout the year. CHAPTERS (01:03) What PGIM Real Estate Actually Does Debt and equity platform under Prudential, agency lending (Fannie, Freddie, FHA), balance sheet lending, and private placement construction-to-perm products. (02:22) How Affordable Housing Loan Originations Work Finding developers, repeat clients, preservation focus, conferences, pre-screens, formal quotes, HUD timelines, and rate locking strategy. (04:30) “Vegetable Soup”: The Complexity of Affordable Housing Terminology overload, legal intricacies, and navigating preservation-specific rules. (05:02) From Georgetown to Chicago International economic development ambitions, business school setbacks, nonprofit lending work, and transition into community development finance. (12:39) The Evolution of Section 8 Preservation How Section 8 went from misunderstood risk to aggressively pursued agency product, increasing competition, and changing developer landscape. (14:20) Agency Appetite and Market Timing Production goals, seasonal strategy shifts, basis point competition, and knowing when to bring deals to Fannie and Freddie. (19:31) Hiring and Leadership Philosophy Fearlessness, Excel proficiency, underwriting experience, self-starters, and the importance of mentorship in building a career. LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/hHJgXSwhPxc Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    25 min
  4. Beyond the Resume Podcast with Blanca Ramirez (Housing with Heart)

    FEB 17

    Beyond the Resume Podcast with Blanca Ramirez (Housing with Heart)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, we sit down with Blanca Ramirez, President and CEO of Comunilife, a New York City–based organization developing supportive and affordable housing alongside essential community-based services. Blanca shares how Comunilife serves thousands of residents through housing, health-focused programming, and prevention initiatives, including Life is Precious, a suicide prevention program created to support Latina teens. Blanca also discusses Comunilife’s medical respite model, which helps individuals transition from hospitals into stable housing, as well as her own unexpected career journey—from early work with homeless seniors, to tax credit syndication at Hudson Housing Capital, and ultimately leading a 300+ employee nonprofit across the Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. This conversation explores nonprofit leadership, culturally competent services, Latino community impact, and Blanca’s advice for young professionals pursuing meaningful work in housing and social services. Chapters (00:01:21) What Comunilife Does: Housing + Services Blanca introduces supportive housing, teen prevention work, and community programs. (00:02:24) How Blanca Found Housing Work From graduate school uncertainty to serving homeless seniors. (00:04:59) Moving Into Housing Finance and Development Her transition from direct services to consulting and syndication. (00:10:22) Life is Precious: Latina Teen Prevention How Comunilife expanded the program across multiple sites. (00:11:49) Medical Respite: Housing After Hospitals Comunilife’s model and success placing people into permanent housing. (00:14:36) Becoming CEO After a Founder Blanca shares how she approached leadership and organizational growth. (00:17:45) Leading Through Workforce and Political Challenges How staff and residents are impacted by today’s climate. (00:25:46) Career Advice: Say Yes, Learn Excel Blanca’s guidance for future nonprofit and housing leaders. Links: YouTube: https://youtu.be/q8kqSRjRjJQ Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9 KEYWORDS: Blanca Ramirez, Comunilife, Supportive Housing, Affordable Housing Development, Latino Community Services, Teen Suicide Prevention, Life is Precious Program, Medical Respite Housing, Nonprofit Leadership, Mission Driven Careers

    40 min
  5. Beyond the Resume Podcast with Joy Horak-Brown (Building Hope in Housing)

    FEB 9

    Beyond the Resume Podcast with Joy Horak-Brown (Building Hope in Housing)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Joy Horak-Brown, President and CEO of New Hope Housing in Houston, Texas. Joy shares the remarkable origin story of the organization, founded in 1993 through the social outreach efforts of Christ Church Cathedral. What began as a modest initiative with just 40 studio apartments and $75,000 in the bank has grown into a pioneering affordable housing nonprofit serving thousands of Texans. Joy explains how New Hope Housing became the first organization in Texas dedicated to housing formerly homeless residents, and how it has expanded to more than 2,115 deeply affordable apartment homes for individuals, families, and seniors. The conversation explores the challenges of financing affordable housing, the importance of the Low Income Housing Tax Credit program, and the ongoing national need for housing at 30% of area median income and below. Joy also reflects on leadership, professional development, mentorship, and her upcoming transition after 30 years at the helm. From award-winning developments recognized by the Urban Land Institute to building communities with supportive services like preschools, clinics, and green spaces, this episode highlights what it takes to create housing with dignity, quality, and long-term impact. Chapters (00:02:28) From 40 Units to a Statewide Pioneer — How New Hope built the first Texas housing dedicated to formerly homeless citizens. (00:05:57) New Hope Today: 2,115 Apartment Homes — Joy shares the scale of growth and the populations served, from individuals to seniors. (00:08:17) Building a Supportive Housing Campus — A “small town” model with preschool, health clinics, services, and even a prairie park. (00:10:31) Houston’s Changing View on Affordable Housing — How proven quality and long-term success reduced resistance over time. (00:20:17) Financing and Pushback in Early Years — Joy recalls fundraising struggles and skepticism from the City of Houston. (00:25:35) Leadership Transition After 30 Years — Joy discusses succession planning and becoming CEO Emerita. (00:30:34) Joy’s Hot Seat: Favorite Book & Mentorship — Her recommendation of The Nonprofit Board Answer Book and lessons from mentors. LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/30IMSwUaBp8 Spotify: https://lnkd.in/eyrNGt53 Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9 ---- affordable housing, New Hope Housing, Joy Horak-Brown, Houston housing development, supportive housing, homelessness solutions, Low Income Housing Tax Credit, nonprofit leadership, Urban Land Institute ULI, deeply affordable housing

    35 min
  6. Beyond the Resume with Seth Bynum (The making of a true NYC Houser)

    FEB 2

    Beyond the Resume with Seth Bynum (The making of a true NYC Houser)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Seth Bynum, Senior Advisor for Housing Policy and Development in the New York City Deputy Mayor’s Office, for a deep dive into how housing policy actually gets made—and implemented—on the ground. Seth explains his role as a liaison between the Mayor’s Office, HPD, HDC, and NYCHA, and why his job ultimately comes down to making it easier to finance and build housing in one of the most complex development environments in the world. The conversation explores New York City’s landmark City of Yes zoning reforms, the shift toward embracing all housing as good housing, and why political risk, environmental review, and time delays remain the biggest obstacles to development. Seth also shares his personal journey—from discovering urban studies by accident at Vassar, to cold-messaging housing leaders on LinkedIn, to working as an affordable housing developer, and finally returning to public service. Along the way, he reflects on why affordable housing finance is so difficult to break into, why Excel and underwriting matter, and what it really means to be a “houser.” The episode closes with Seth’s reading list, podcast recommendations, and candid advice for young professionals who want to build careers in housing policy, development, and public service. Chapters (00:03:21) What Seth Does in the Mayor’s Office An overview of Seth’s role coordinating housing finance agencies and translating policy into action. (00:06:00) Why Building in NYC Is So Hard Political risk, environmental review, oversubscribed bond pipelines, and systemic delays. (00:08:13) City of Yes and the Housing Paradigm Shift How zoning reform changed the conversation from “only affordable” to “more housing.” (00:11:51) Finding Housing Through Urban Studies How Seth’s upbringing in Essex County shaped his understanding of place and equity. (00:15:09) Falling in Love With Housing Policy From Senate hearings on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to a career-defining realization. (00:21:05) Breaking Into Affordable Housing LinkedIn outreach, HPD internships, and learning LIHTC from the inside. (00:27:23) From Developer to Deputy Mayor’s Office Why firsthand development experience matters in public-sector housing leadership. (00:35:24) Day-to-Day Reality: Closing Season What December looks like inside NYC housing finance and why relationships matter. LINKS: YouTube: https://youtu.be/TmNgZn5UYRs Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9 KEYWORDS: affordable housing, New York City housing, housing policy, City of Yes, housing development, LIHTC, NYCHA, urban studies, housing finance

    47 min
  7. Beyond the Resume with Audrey Symes (Inside Human Capital Analytics)

    JAN 26

    Beyond the Resume with Audrey Symes (Inside Human Capital Analytics)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Audrey Symes, Head of Research at Human Capital Analytics, to explore how data, research, and macroeconomic trends are reshaping hiring and talent strategy across real estate, investment banking, and asset management. Audrey shares her unconventional career journey—from economics at Stanford to real estate research at Deutsche Bank, Prologis, JLL, and Partners Group—and explains how those experiences shaped her approach to predictive analytics, workforce planning, and thought leadership. The conversation dives deep into how executive search firms can move beyond intuition by leveraging proprietary data, market mapping, compensation studies, and AI-powered research tools. The episode also explores the evolving role of AI in research, the skills required to succeed in a data-driven world, and why reading, writing, and critical thinking are more important than ever. Audrey closes with practical career advice for early professionals, book recommendations that shaped her thinking, and daily habits that help her stay grounded while building a modern research platform. This episode is a must-listen for professionals interested in talent strategy, data-driven decision-making, and the future of work. Chapters (03:10) What Human Capital Analytics Does—and Why It Matters (06:05) Audrey’s Career Journey: Economics, Real Estate & Research (10:40) Learning from Market Cycles and Industry Evolution (14:35) Turning Search Data into Strategic Insight (18:55) Predictive Analytics, Surveys & Workforce Trends (22:45) AI in Research: Tools, Limits, and Opportunities (26:40) Skills That Matter: Reading, Writing, and the “So What” (30:55) Books, Mentors & Habits That Shape Great Researchers (34:40) Advice for Early-Career Professionals & Closing Thoughts LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/Srno63IEHSM Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    38 min
  8. Beyond the Resume with Andrea Osgood (Finding Eden in Affordable Housing)

    JAN 20

    Beyond the Resume with Andrea Osgood (Finding Eden in Affordable Housing)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Andrea Osgood, Chief of Real Estate Development and Executive Vice President at Eden Housing, one of California’s most influential affordable housing developers. With more than 57 years of impact, Eden Housing has developed over 160 projects and 13,000 affordable homes serving families, seniors, and special needs communities across the state. Andrea shares her personal journey from growing up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, to studying liberal arts at Pomona College, earning a Master’s in Urban Planning from UCLA, and building a 17-year career at Eden Housing. The conversation dives deep into how affordable housing deals actually get done in California, including the role of Low-Income Housing Tax Credits, public-private partnerships, inclusionary zoning, and local and state funding sources. The episode also explores modular construction, cost containment strategies, advocacy at the local and state level, and how emerging tools like AI and knowledge management systems are shaping the future of housing development. Andrea offers candid advice for students and early-career professionals interested in affordable housing, emphasizing risk management, communication skills, and financial literacy. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in affordable housing development, urban planning, nonprofit leadership, real estate careers, and housing policy, especially in high-cost markets like California. CHAPTERS (00:38) Meet Andrea Osgood & Eden Housing’s MissionAndrea introduces Eden Housing, its IHOP beginnings, and its statewide impact after nearly six decades of development. (02:47) How Affordable Housing Deals Get FinancedA clear breakdown of tax credits, permanent loans, and layered public funding that make projects possible in California. (05:02) A 17-Year Career at One OrganizationWhy Andrea stayed at Eden Housing, and how nonprofit real estate blends mission with business rigor. (09:03) From Liberal Arts to Urban PlanningAndrea explains how urban planning became the perfect bridge between creativity, policy, and the built environment. (14:46) How Eden Housing Finds New DealsRFPs, inclusionary zoning partnerships, and land acquisition strategies explained. (18:43) Modular Construction & Cost InnovationLessons learned from modular projects in Vallejo and Hayward—and why standardization is still a challenge. (24:22) Housing Advocacy & Local LeadershipAndrea discusses San Mateo County advocacy, Measure K, and her return to Tulsa through housing impact work. (28:02) Advice for Students Entering Housing DevelopmentThe skills, mindset, and experience young professionals need to succeed in affordable housing.

    38 min
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Ratings & Reviews

4.5
out of 5
8 Ratings

About

Co-hosted by industry veterans, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, the weekly Beyond the Resume Podcast features interviews with some of the best known real estate experts in the U.S. By exploring how they built their successful careers and the impact they have made to the communities around them we hope to educate and inspire anyone building or thinking of building a career in real estate. Join us as we go Beyond the Resume.

Information

  • Creator
    Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    115
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker
  • Show Website
    Beyond the Resume

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