Beyond the Resume

Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker

4.5 (8)
Careers
Updated Weekly

Co-hosted by industry veterans, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, the weekly Beyond the Resume Podcast features interviews with some of the best known real estate experts in the U.S. By exploring how they built their successful careers and the impact they have made to the communities around them we hope to educate and inspire anyone building or thinking of building a career in real estate. Join us as we go Beyond the Resume.

6d ago

Beyond the Resume with Andrea Kretchmer (The career you never planned)

Andrea Kretchmer’s career was never supposed to lead to affordable housing development—and that is exactly what makes her story such a compelling fit for Beyond the Resume. Andrea, a principal and founder of Xenolith Partners LLC, joins Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker to trace a career that began in science. After studying geology and earning a master’s degree, Andrea worked as an environmental consultant conducting soil and groundwater investigations. She later stepped away from her career for a decade to raise her family, volunteer in her community, and develop skills she would eventually bring into an entirely different profession. When she was ready to return to work, Andrea approached her father, longtime real estate developer Jerry Kretchmer, about working together. Their search for an opportunity led them to affordable housing, where Andrea could combine real estate development with the community-focused work she had grown to value. Her earliest projects included successful New York City RFPs in Coney Island and East New York—but the 2008 recession dramatically altered their plans and taught Andrea just how much patience development can require. Andrea also explains how she and Terry Belkas Mitchell founded Xenolith in 2016 and built a company around partnerships, complementary skill sets, and affordable and supportive housing development. She discusses the importance of earning credibility with lenders and investors, expanding into Connecticut, collaborating with nonprofit organizations, and maintaining what she calls a “pleasantly persistent” approach to the business. The conversation also explores Andrea’s strength as a connector: networking, mentoring younger professionals, participating in industry organizations, and helping others gain access to relationships and knowledge that benefited her earlier in her own career. Andrea closes by reflecting on returning to work after ten years away, recognizing life experience as legitimate professional experience, building teams with people whose skills complement her own, and acknowledging the mentors and partners who helped make her career possible. CHAPTERS (01:02) Building affordable and supportive housing through partnerships (03:31) From geology to environmental consulting (05:55) Stepping away from work to raise a family (07:26) Returning to work and discovering affordable housing (08:47) Winning Andrea’s first New York City development projects (12:06) Why affordable housing became the right career (16:59) Breaking into development and learning the business (19:50) Growing Xenolith beyond New York City (24:23) Networking, mentorship and the “people business” (28:25) What’s next for Xenolith (33:19) Returning to the workforce after a 10-year career break (36:05) The Beyond the Resume Hot Seat (38:44) What Andrea looks for in partners and colleagues (40:11) The people who helped shape Andrea’s career YouTube: https://youtu.be/g29vTeErK7I?si=nLAxxF93CSbvaL2e Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9
Sep 21

Beyond the Resume Podcast with Susan Dimikele (The next right thing)

Susan DiMickele spent 21 years in Big Law before making a career pivot that ultimately led her to become President and CEO of National Church Residences. In this episode of Beyond the Resume, Susan joins Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker to discuss the experiences, decisions, and leadership lessons that shaped her path from attorney to nonprofit housing executive. Susan shares how her father’s end-of-life journey, the needs of her family, and a longstanding desire to do mission-driven work helped push her toward a new chapter. After serving on the National Church Residences board, she joined the organization as its first general counsel, then expanded into innovation, home- and community-based services, senior living, and healthcare before eventually stepping into the CEO role. The conversation explores National Church Residences’ work serving older adults through affordable housing and services including service coordination, home health, hospice, primary care, caregiver support, and benefits navigation. Susan also discusses the growing population of older adults, the rise in homelessness among seniors, the difficulty of getting affordable housing deals done, and the organization’s goal of serving 100,000 older adults by 2030. Susan also breaks down what leadership looks like from the CEO seat: surrounding yourself with talented people, giving them the tools they need, and staying accountable to the organization’s vision. She identifies talent as one of the biggest factors in reaching National Church Residences’ growth goals and explains why adaptable people with a growth mindset will be increasingly important as roles and technology continue to change. For professionals considering a career change, Susan offers a clear message: be willing to make a lateral move or even take a pay cut, focus on the “next right thing,” and play the long game. The episode closes with Susan discussing faith, personal routines, her hiring philosophy, and the mentors who shaped her career. CHAPTERS (00:00) Meet Susan DiMickele & National Church Residences (03:02) What Makes Senior Affordable Housing Different? (04:02) Leaving Big Law for a Mission-Driven Career (05:43) From General Counsel to President & CEO (06:44) Combining Housing, Healthcare & Services (08:01) The Origins of National Church Residences (09:49) Living Longer vs. Living Better: Finding Your “Joy Span” (11:39) The Growing Housing Challenge Facing Older Adults (12:34) What Does a CEO Actually Do? (13:41) Transferable Skills & Developing a Growth Mindset (15:23) Susan’s Early Career, Family & Sense of Purpose (17:24) Why Affordable Housing Deals Are Getting Harder (18:42) Career Pivots: Take the Lateral Move and Play the Long Game (19:52) The Talent Needed to Serve 100,000 Older Adults (21:47) AI, Changing Roles & Hiring for Adaptability (23:29) The Hot Seat (25:13) Faith, Personal Rhythms & Staying Grounded (26:46) Susan’s Hiring Philosophy (29:37) Mentors Who Shaped Her Career (30:59) Closing Thoughts with Susan DiMickele YouTube: https://youtu.be/Cb3D6TjUPmU Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9
Sep 14

Beyond the Resume podcast with Pastor Martin Porter (Building on Faith)

What happens when a pastor approaches affordable housing with the discipline, financial fluency, and ambition of a seasoned real estate developer? In this episode of Beyond the Resume, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Martin Porter, founder and CEO of Logos Development, for a candid conversation about faith-based affordable housing, church real estate development, personal transformation, and purpose-driven leadership. Martin explains how Logos Development partners with churches and religious organizations to transform underused land—including parking lots and surplus parcels—into much-needed housing. Rather than purchasing church property, Logos uses joint ventures and long-term ground leases that allow congregations to remain invested in the land and participate in the value created through development. The conversation goes far beyond real estate. Martin shares his unconventional journey from the restaurant and nightclub business to commercial brokerage, ministry, sobriety, and ultimately affordable housing development. He describes how recovery helped him rebuild his life, answer a spiritual calling, and pursue the seemingly unattainable goal of becoming a full-scale developer. Martin also discusses the importance of assembling teams with more experience than you, maintaining trust through difficult development decisions, and understanding that affordable housing is fundamentally a relationship-driven business. He reflects on second chances, resilience, self-discipline, family, gratitude, ethical leadership, and the daily choice to remain grounded while leading a rapidly growing company. The episode also explores what Martin looks for when hiring, why faith-based organizations must hold themselves to exceptionally high professional standards, how he creates boundaries around technology, and the mentors and books that continue to shape his approach to leadership and development. Building on Faith is a deeply personal conversation about affordable housing, church land, recovery, real estate entrepreneurship, and what becomes possible when professional ambition is anchored by a meaningful purpose. CHAPTERS (00:00) Martin Porter: Pastor, Developer and Mission-Driven Entrepreneur (01:52) The Meaning and Mission Behind Logos Development (04:00) Why Churches Are Turning Underused Land Into Housing (06:35) Joint Ventures, Ground Leases and Church Ownership (10:38) Understanding Church Partners and Returning to Their Mission (12:44) From Nightlife and Sales to Commercial Real Estate (14:58) Sobriety, Ministry and the Birth of Logos Development (17:17) Breaking Into Development Without a Traditional Roadmap (21:40) Resilience, Second Chances and Believing in Your Purpose (26:56) Ethics, Trust and Mission-Driven Affordable Housing (31:39) The Hot Seat: Books, Robert Moses and the Use of Power (36:28) Staying Grounded Through Gratitude, Family and Discipline (40:33) Hiring for Mindset, Excellence and Authentic Diversity (44:10) The Mentors Who Shaped Martin’s Leadership (45:29) Final Reflections and Closing YouTube: https://youtu.be/3LmdJfuOzQA Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9
Sep 8

Beyond the Resume podcast with Trevor Samios (Why Resident Services Matter)

Trevor Samios didn’t set out to build a career in affordable housing. He studied political science and philosophy, planned to attend law school, and eventually found himself teaching writing to young people in a Pittsburgh public housing community undergoing a major redevelopment. That experience opened the door to a career centered on the intersection of housing, operations, resident services, and social impact. In this episode, Trevor traces that unconventional path — from his first property management role in a HOPE VI redevelopment to traveling the country auditing and supporting affordable housing communities, and ultimately helping build resident-services and social-impact programs at scale. Trevor explains why resident services are more than an added amenity. From housing stability and eviction prevention to employment, savings, education, benefits access, and economic mobility, he discusses how supporting residents can also strengthen the long-term performance of affordable housing communities. He also breaks down the challenge of measuring that impact and the funding strategies that can make these programs sustainable. The conversation also explores Trevor’s evolution into organizational operations and strategy as WIN grew dramatically in size and geographic reach. He discusses the challenge of maintaining culture, consistency, systems, and performance as an organization scales — and the opportunities he sees in new technology and better-designed workflows. In the Hot Seat, Trevor shares what keeps him grounded, the quality he values most when hiring, what it takes to succeed in resident services, and the mentors who shaped how he thinks about work, people, and purpose. CHAPTERS (01:52) What Resident Services Actually Looks Like (02:58) Why Resident Services Matter (05:44) Measuring Human Impact (06:17) From Political Science and Philosophy to Housing (08:39) How Teaching Led Trevor to Affordable Housing (12:03) Learning Affordable Housing Across the Country (14:22) The Documentary That Changed His Career (17:27) Building Social Impact Programs at Scale (20:30) Funding and Sustaining Resident Services (22:25) Managing Growth, Operations and New Technology (25:39) The Hot Seat: Work, Books and Music (28:22) Staying Grounded While Leading (29:38) Why Trevor Hires for “Ownership” (31:21) How to Build a Career in Resident Services (34:00) The Mentors Who Shaped His Career
Aug 31

Beyond the Resume podcast with Dan Cooper (Credit where credit is due)

Dan Cooper, SVP and Head of Investor Relations at Enterprise Community Partners, joins Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker for a conversation about affordable housing, investor relations, and the complex world of low-income housing tax credits. Dan explains how his team connects investors with housing credit opportunities, why the market has become more precise and investor-driven, and why relationships, trust, and credibility remain essential in a highly technical business. He also looks back at the unexpected introduction that launched his career, what pushed him toward management and leadership, what he looks for when hiring, and the mentors who continue to influence how he approaches difficult decisions. It’s a conversation about capital and affordable housing—but just as importantly, about the people behind the work. Chapters (01:40) Inside Enterprise Community Partners (03:36) What Investor Relations Actually Does (05:16) How the LIHTC Market Has Changed (07:18) Why Investors Want More Control (08:43) Raising Capital & Knowing Your Audience (10:16) Career Paths in Affordable Housing (12:29) What Makes a Strong Investor Relations Professional (13:51) Dan’s Unexpected Path Into Tax Credits (17:52) Why Dan Pursued an MBA (18:50) An Industry in Calibration (21:44) The Hot Seat (24:02) Family & Staying Grounded (25:58) Dan’s Approach to Hiring (28:43) Mentorship, Leadership & Perspective Dan Cooper, Enterprise Community Partners, affordable housing, low income housing tax credit, LIHTC, investor relations, tax credit syndication, housing credit investments, affordable housing finance, raising capital, real estate careers, community development, affordable housing investing, housing finance agencies, tax exempt bonds, asset management, leadership, hiring, mentorship, investor relationships
Aug 24

Beyond the Resume podcast Webinar Series: 21st Century Road to Housing Act

In this Beyond the Resume Webinar Series installment, hosts Chris Papa of Jackson Lucas and Kristen Niver of Robinson+Cole examine the 21st Century Road to Housing Act and what its sweeping policy changes could mean for the future of affordable housing. The discussion brings together three national housing policy leaders: Emily Cadik, CEO of the Affordable Housing Tax Credit Coalition; Mark Kudlowitz, Senior Policy Director at Local Initiatives Support Corporation (LISC); and Thom Amdur, Executive Vice President of Policy & Impact at Lincoln Avenue Communities. The panel breaks down the provisions they believe could have the greatest practical impact on affordable housing production and preservation. At the center of the conversation is the increase to the Public Welfare Investment cap, which could unlock additional bank investment just as the expanded Low-Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) creates demand for billions of dollars in new equity. The panel also examines changes affecting institutional investors and build-to-rent housing, increased FHA multifamily loan limits, and the potential for new capital strategies such as LIHTC transferability. But the legislation is only part of the story. The conversation turns to the proposed Community Reinvestment Act regulations, where changes to the investment test could reduce incentives for some regional and community banks to invest in affordable housing. The panel also explores BABA requirements, rural housing preservation, CDBG disaster recovery, HOME and CHDO reforms, RAD, manufactured housing, and the challenges facing HUD and USDA as agencies begin the implementation process. Throughout the webinar, one distinction remains critical: the Act creates and reforms programs, but many provisions do not provide new funding on their own. Their ultimate impact will depend on appropriations, regulatory implementation and sustained industry advocacy. Despite those uncertainties, the panel sees the Act's overwhelming bipartisan support as evidence that housing has become a national political priority—and potentially a foundation for another round of federal housing legislation. CHAPTERS (01:13) Introductions to the 21st Century Road to Housing Act (03:50) LIHTC Expansion & the Public Welfare Investment Cap (07:20) Institutional Investors, Build-to-Rent & Housing Supply (11:55) FHA Loan Limits & Affordable Housing Preservation (14:00) Build America, Buy America & HUD Reform (18:40) CRA Changes & the Future of LIHTC Investment (23:18) Rural Housing Preservation & CDBG Disaster Recovery (27:59) Equity Pricing, Investor Demand & LIHTC Transferability (34:52) CRA Impacts on Nonprofits & CDFI Lenders (39:12) HOME, CHDOs & Local Development Capacity (41:32) Bipartisan Momentum & What Comes Next (48:10) HUD Implementation, RAD & Regulatory Challenges (52:27) Manufactured Housing & Closing Takeaways LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/uS7yX0PCMi0 Spotify: https://lnkd.in/eyrNGt53 Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9
Aug 17

Beyond the Resume podcast with Dara McQuillan (A Career You Couldn’t Plan)

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, Lisa Flicker sits down with Dara McQuillan to discuss an unconventional career shaped by storytelling, real estate marketing, placemaking, and the rebuilding of the World Trade Center. McQuillan traces his path from growing up in Ireland and Belgium to UCLA, an internship at Variety, work in film and public relations, and eventually a career in commercial real estate. McQuillan explains how his ability to tell stories led him to Larry Silverstein and Silverstein Properties, where he was tasked with helping communicate the vision for rebuilding the World Trade Center. He reflects on the challenge of marketing Lower Manhattan after September 11 and how architecture, art, public relations, events, and creative storytelling helped reshape perceptions of the neighborhood. The conversation also explores the increasingly strategic role of marketing in real estate. McQuillan describes how marketers often have to sell a vision before a building exists, using everything from renderings and film to art, events, digital media, and emerging AI tools. He also shares how unexpected ideas—including inviting artists into World Trade Center buildings during construction—became powerful tools for documenting and telling the story of the redevelopment. For students and young professionals, McQuillan emphasizes that there is no single path into commercial real estate. Careers can span marketing, technology, hospitality, architecture, finance, art, sustainability, and countless other disciplines. His advice: understand what you are good at, stay open to unexpected opportunities, learn from the people around you, and develop the ability to tell your own story. CHAPTERS (01:15) An unconventional path into storytelling and real estate (05:08) Larry Silverstein and rebuilding the World Trade Center (10:32) Reimagining Lower Manhattan after September 11 (17:17) Why marketing matters in real estate (22:10) Art, creativity, and unconventional storytelling (27:21) Career opportunities across commercial real estate (32:23) Technology, AI, and the evolution of communications (34:47) Career advice for young professionals (37:19) The Hot Seat: books, routines, and life outside work (44:14) Mentors, leadership, and learning from your team LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/_taQWccIBLU Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9
Aug 10

Beyond the Resume podcast with Dr. Reginald Parker aka Dr. Green Power (Underwriting the overlooked)

Dr. Reginald Parker aka “Dr. Green Power”joins Beyond the Resume for a conversation about clean energy, affordable housing, climate finance, leadership, and creating economic opportunity for communities too often overlooked. Parker explains how his work with Freedmen Green Bank and Trust approaches housing through total cost of ownership. For a home to be truly affordable, he argues, families must also be able to afford the energy required to live there. Investments in solar, storage, HVAC systems, energy efficiency, and resilient infrastructure can lower monthly expenses while potentially increasing long-term home value. That mission is captured in one of Parker’s defining phrases: helping the underserved and overlooked become underwritten. He discusses using both financing and technical assistance to support homeowners, contractors, nonprofits, and emerging developers who may not fit traditional lending models. Parker also shares the personal story behind his work. Growing up poor in Savannah, Georgia, he relied on free school lunches and remembers eating less at home so his mother would have enough food. His strengths in math and science eventually took him to MIT, where studying chemical engineering led him to question how he could use his skills to reduce pollution rather than contribute to it. That question launched a career spanning clean-energy technology, solar development, project development, and financing. Parker also challenges assumptions about who belongs in climate finance. Through a Climate Finance 101 course at Morehouse College, students from disciplines ranging from kinesiology to political science learned how to analyze real energy projects. His message: you do not need to be an engineer or finance major—you need curiosity and a willingness to learn. The conversation closes with Parker’s approach to leadership, mentorship, parenting, and hiring people who expand his abilities rather than simply mirror them. His philosophy: “H.I. over A.I.—Human intelligence over artificial intelligence.” CHAPTERS (00:00) Housing, Energy & Green Financing (06:53) Net-Zero Workforce Housing (08:50) Growing Up Poor to MIT (11:41) Engineering Meets Clean Energy (13:40) Breaking Into Climate Finance (17:34) The Future of Clean Energy (20:25) Underwriting the Overlooked (22:13) The Human Cost of Energy Burden (23:41) Leadership, Family & Mentorship LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/GVpWdUT7lY8 Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

4.5

out of 5

8 Ratings

Fun and informative

03/12/2022

LaurenDeLo

Great job!

Co-hosted by industry veterans, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, the weekly Beyond the Resume Podcast features interviews with some of the best known real estate experts in the U.S. By exploring how they built their successful careers and the impact they have made to the communities around them we hope to educate and inspire anyone building or thinking of building a career in real estate. Join us as we go Beyond the Resume.

Creator

Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker
Years Active

2022 - 2026
Episodes

145
Rating

Clean
Copyright

© Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker
Show Website

Beyond the Resume

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