Jenn Noble calls it “the relationship that broke me.” The way her ex later explained it to her, when they first started dating he poured everything into her cup. One hundred percent. She loved all of it. She just never felt it. She was very anxiously attached. He was avoidantly attached. So he poured, and she needed a little more. He poured again, and she needed a little more again. A few months in, he was running on empty and only giving 80%, but he didn’t know how to tell her he was burning out. She didn’t know how to soothe herself. So the less he gave, the more she reached, and the more she reached, the less he gave. By the end, he told her it felt like he was pouring into a cup and she kept moving it. I told her it sounded like he was pouring into a colander. She said yes, like a sieve, because every one of us has holes in our needs bucket. That relationship is the one her whole book, Dance of Attachment, is written about. And I think so many of us have lived some version of it. Jenn is an ICF Professional Certified Coach who works with smart, capable women who do great in life but struggle in love. I was a guest on her podcast, Speak Honest, a couple of weeks ago, and the conversation was so good we decided to keep it going on mine. I am so glad we did, because attachment sits underneath almost everything I talk about. If you know me, you know I believe all behavior makes sense in context. Attachment is a big part of that context. Here is the part I want every parent, and every adult child, to hear. Jenn shared that you only need to attune to your child about 30% of the time. (That number comes from developmental research on parents and babies, much of it Ed Tronick’s, and it is often taught as “30% is good enough.”) Some people hear that and feel a weight lift off their shoulders. Others hear it and think, wait, the bar was that low, and my parents still couldn’t reach it? Both reactions make sense. And Jenn was clear that this is not about blaming your mom. It is about a society that does not give mothers the time, support and space they need to hold their children. Then we went somewhere a lot of people are not going to expect. Social media loves to put avoidant attachment in the same box as narcissism. So I asked Jenn straight out: do people who use narcissistic tactics or coercive control tend to be avoidant? Her answer was no. In her words, avoidant attachment tends to be the least likely to be narcissistic. In her experience, an avoidant person is so worried about being controlled that they would never have the energy to control someone else. We talked about the difference between real coercive control, which is a much deeper and more dangerous pattern, and an avoidant partner who simply doesn’t know how to stay close. And she said something that stopped me. When someone comes to her and asks, “How do I get them to change?”, that question itself is a sign of anxious attachment. The anxious part of us is always looking outward, because if everyone around us is okay, then we are safe. So can attachment styles change? Yes. Jenn calls herself a walking poster for it. Healing goes back to the beliefs underneath the behavior, the “if the kitchen isn’t clean, he’ll leave me” stories, and to giving the body new evidence, not just the mind. I shared some of my own story too. For about ten years, after a few traumatic things happened, I could not feel safe with the people I was in the care of. I had a good sense of myself, but all the affirmations in the world could not change the environment my body was living in. My nervous system was doing exactly what it was designed to do. You are not broken. You adapted. Near the end, Jenn shared her favorite quote: the bird is not afraid of the branch breaking, because she trusts in her own wings. That is what secure attachment really is. It is self-trust. It is what I mean when I say, know your truth and trust your knowing. And it leads to the hardest thing Jenn tells the married women she works with: first and foremost, we need to be okay losing this relationship. Not because she wants them to leave. Because after that work, the relationship they have now ends either way: it levels up, or they stop putting up with what hurts them. And when you stop being afraid of losing someone, you stop abandoning yourself to keep them. As I often tell my own clients, if you are afraid of being abandoned, it is already happening. You have already left yourself. If this one stirs something, start where Jenn suggests: find out your attachment style. She has a free quiz at danceofattachment.com/quiz, and her book Dance of Attachment is available now at danceofattachment.com. You can also find her on Instagram at @speak_honest and on the Speak Honest Podcast. If you want to understand how your own history is still showing up in your body today, my free HURRT Assessment (Healing Unresolved Roots of Trauma) maps how experiences before 18 may still be shaping you now: Take it here: https://www.flipyourmindset.com/hurrt Prefer to watch? The full video version is on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCAQUNLlaDa262nD-iNvGHg In this conversation: what attachment theory is and why it matters, secure versus insecure attachment, why “don’t go to bed angry” is bad advice, the 30% rule of attunement, why children blame themselves, why this is not about blaming your mom, the three insecure attachment styles, big T trauma and the ACE score, where anxious and avoidant attachment come from, the core beliefs underneath them, whether avoidants are narcissists, coercive control versus attachment, “how do I get them to change?”, why anxious and avoidant attract, the relationship that broke Jenn, whether attachment styles can change, somatic affirmations, self-trust, and why you have to be okay losing the relationship. This conversation is for education and reflection, not a substitute for professional mental health care. If you are in an abusive relationship, the US National Domestic Violence Hotline is 1-800-799-7233, or text START to 88788. New episodes every Monday. If someone you love needs this one, send it to them. We cannot heal what we do not understand. Stacey This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit flipyourmindset.substack.com/subscribe