beyond ArtLess

Chris Gleason, Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander

“Beyond ArtLess" with Chris Gleason, Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander is a podcast that explores the friendships and the community that exists in and outside of the arts and arts education. In each episode of Beyond ArtLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. What comes next is a fun-filled conversation revealing the joy of friendship and the artlessness of the hosts. Unlike most successful classrooms, this show is not well planned and probably not worth your time. 

  1. 12h ago

    David Davis

    Send us Fan Mail Commuter, this week we’re talking about music education, change, and the seemingly radical idea that every kid deserves to see themselves in the music classroom. David Davis has gone from traditional music educator to change agent, working to make music education more inclusive, relevant, and equitable for all students. We talk about what needs to change, why literacy matters, and what happens when we stop treating the way we’ve always done things as the way we always have to do things. Peter, Chris and Phil also do their part to prove that systemic change is much easier to discuss than successfully executing a podcast. Learn More about David: https://educationminnesota.org/news/awards-and-honors/teacher-of-the-year/ https://nafme.org/member-profile/david-davis-2/ https://www.fox9.com/news/st-louis-park-music-teacher-named-minnesota-teacher-year Resources Mentioned: A Sound Approach to Teaching Instrumentalists: An Application of Content and Learning Sequences Nurtured by Love: The Classic Approach to Talent Education by Shinichi Suzuki and Waltraud Suzuki | Jun 1, 1993 Teaching Rhythm: New Strategies and Techniques for Success by David Newell (Author) Jump Right In: The Music Curriculum, Reference Handbook for Using Learning Sequence Activities by Edwin E. Gordon  REGISTER NOW: 2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!! https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1 COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission Support the show

    David Davis
  2. Sep 19

    John Greene

    Send us Fan Mail The Band Whisperer: John Greene What do you get when you combine 37 years of teaching, thousands of rehearsals, a lifetime of listening, and a healthy appreciation for classic rock? You get John Greene—and one heck of a conversation. This week on Beyond Artless, we sit down with retired music educator, clinician, adjudicator, arranger, guitarist, and all-around rehearsal junkie John Greene. John shares stories from a career that spans Wisconsin and Minnesota, from his unexpected transition from PE major to music education student (including a memorable two-and-a-half-hour Schoenberg violin recital) to his years working with middle school musicians, jazz ensembles, marching programs, and teachers across the country. We talk about why high expectations and middle school musicians absolutely can coexist, the power of relationships and trust, why “be more expressive” might be one of the least helpful comments we can give a young musician, and how something as simple as a pencil and a “drill box” can transform a rehearsal. John also shares what he has learned from a lifetime of mentors, why music teachers need to spend more time choosing music their students can actually be successful with, how to build meaningful relationships with administrators, and why music educators across disciplines need to stop looking at each other as competition and start recognizing that we all need each other. And because this is Beyond Artless, we eventually abandon all of that wisdom for a rapid-fire trip through 1970s rock: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Terry Kath, Frampton Comes Alive, Fleetwood Mac, Shostakovich, Ives, and the proper use of a popsicle stick in an eight-track player. It's a conversation full of great stories, practical rehearsal wisdom, and the kind of perspective that makes you want to get back into the band room and try something new on Monday. Plus: Chris has rocks. You'll have to listen to understand. Credits: Arnold Schoenberg Pierrot Lunaire 1. Moondrunk Curtis Institute of Music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8OMOhmfP9I REGISTER NOW: 2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!! https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1 COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission Support the show

    John Greene
  3. Sep 12

    Andrea Pelloquin

    Send us Fan Mail This week on Beyond Artless, we accidentally made an episode that is actually useful. We’re talking copyright, music publishing, digital music, arrangements, AI, and a bunch of other things that music educators probably should know more about—but often don’t have time to figure out. Our guest is Andrea Pelloquin, Executive Director of the Choristers Guild and an attorney specializing in copyright and trademark law. She brings a ton of experience from both the music industry and the legal world, and she helps us make sense of some of the copyright questions that come up in music education every day. We also talk about public domain music, photocopying, e-print, AI, career changes, and why you might want to think twice before assuming that something you found online is fair game. And because this is Beyond Artless, we somehow manage to work in bees, spelling bees, porch geese, and a few other things that have absolutely nothing to do with copyright. Come for the useful information. Stay for the nonsense. Helpful Links Regarding Copyright https://www.tresonamusic.com/https://www.bmi.com/https://www.arrangeme.com/https://www.easysong.com/https://schoolmusiclicense.com/https://www.choristersguild.org/index.htmlhttps://nafme.org/resource/united-states-copyright-law-a-guide-for-music-educators/https://www.mpa.org/ OPPORTUNITIES: 2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!! https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1 COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS (Closes Sept 15) https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission FREE MUSIC (Ends Sept 15) MAX JOY - ERIKA SVANOE https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/ Support the show

    Andrea Pelloquin
  4. Aug 29

    Jennifer Hawkinson

    Send us Fan Mail What do you get when you put Chris, Phil, Peter, and Dr. Jennifer Hawkinson in the same room? A conversation full of laughter, honest stories, teaching wisdom, and at least a few moments where you'll find yourself thinking, "Yep... that's exactly what it's like to be a music teacher." In this episode of Beyond Artless, we're joined by Dr. Jennifer Hawkinson, Associate Professor of Music Education and Director of the Symphonic Band at Concordia College. Jennifer has spent her career shaping musicians and mentoring future educators, but what makes this conversation so special isn't just her résumé—it's her ability to blend excellence with humility, high expectations with genuine kindness, and just enough humor to remind us that no rehearsal is ever completely under control. From her years teaching in South Dakota public schools to preparing tomorrow's band directors at Concordia, Jennifer shares stories that are equal parts inspiring and wonderfully relatable. She reminds us that the best teachers don't have all the answers—they simply keep showing up, keep learning, and occasionally laugh at the chaos along the way. What you'll hear in this episode: How Jennifer's journey led her from the school band room to the college classroomThe mentors who shaped her—and why every great teacher stands on someone else's shouldersWhat future music educators really need to know before their first day on the podiumBuilding rehearsal environments where students feel challenged, valued, and empoweredWhy relationships will always outlast repertoireThe little moments that remind us why we chose this profession in the first placeOf course, it wouldn't be Beyond Artless without a healthy dose of laughter. Chris, Phil, and Peter swap stories with Jennifer about the wonderfully unpredictable life of music educators—those rehearsals that somehow survive flattened trumpets, questionable rhythms, and the occasional "creative interpretation" of the conductor's instructions. Whether you're a veteran teacher, a future music educator, or someone who simply appreciates the people who make school music programs come alive, this episode feels like sitting around the table with friends who just happen to care deeply about making music—and making people better through it. Jennifer's passion is contagious, her perspective is refreshing, and her heart for students shines through every story she tells. Join us for a conversation filled with wisdom, warmth, a few laughs, and a reminder that while music may not solve every problem, it certainly makes the journey a whole lot better. That's what happens Beyond Artless. SHOW CREDITS: WALTON Coronation March, “Crown Imperial” - "The President's Own" United States Marine Band Performed on April 2, 2023, at Northern Virginia Community College's Rachel M. Schlesinger Concert Hall and Arts Center in Alexandria, Va., as part of a concert titled "Sacred Hymns, Songs, and Sounds." William Walton's Coronation March, “Crown Imperial” transcribed by William Duthoit Conducted by First Lieutenant Darren Lin Program and notes: https://www.marineband.marines.mil/Po... REGISTER NOW: 2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain!! https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1 COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission FREE MUSIC until September 15 MAX JOY - ERIKA SVANOE https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/ THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS Grand Tours Concordia College Heid Music Interested in sponsoring with us? Learn more here! Support the show

    Jennifer Hawkinson
  5. May 27

    Gene Pokorny

    Send us Fan Mail In the Season 4 finale of Beyond ArtLess, we are joined by legendary Chicago Symphony Orchestra tubist Gene Pokorny for a conversation that moves seamlessly from orchestral artistry to teamwork, teaching, and steam locomotives. With Peter away caring for family, special guest co-host Paul Kile joins Chris and Phil for a finale episode that is somehow thoughtful, hilarious, and significantly more organized than usual. In This Episode:  Gene reflects on life inside the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and why he still “pinches himself” walking onto the stage  Stories about working with conductors including Riccardo Muti and Klaus Mäkelä The arrival of new principal trombonist Tim Higgins and how personnel changes reshape an orchestra  Gene’s philosophy on expressive playing, rubato, and storytelling in music  Why so many young brass players focus on technique before expression  Lessons learned from legendary teachers including Roger Bobo, Tommy Johnson, and Arnold Jacobs The origins of the Pokorny Seminar and the importance of teamwork in music education  Steam locomotives, railroad leadership, and what musicians can learn from the Union Pacific “Big Boy”  Why Mahler ultimately beats Shostakovich… at least today Favorite Moments:  “You’ve got 52 weeks. I’ve got four measures.”  “There’s nothing extraordinarily special about what we’re doing. We just happen to be lucky enough to put together something greater than the sum of the parts.”  “We still have to worry about long tones. Jesus.” Also in This Episode:  Chris shares his recent trip to hear the Chicago Symphony Orchestra perform Saint-Saëns’ “Organ Symphony”  Festival prep chaos: 4,188 students, endless pizza, and waterpark logistics  Jury duty panic during concert season  The return of the classic “make fun of Peter” segment Details about the new (currently FREE) composition by Erika Svanoe called "Max Joy" and the story behind the premiere and dedication.Thank you, commuters, for riding along with us through another season of Beyond ArtLess. See you in Season 5. Learn More: Chicago Symphony Orchestra Pokorny Low Brass Seminar Credits: Skirmish and Dance · Jeffrey Reynolds  Big Boy Album ℗ 2005 Summit Records Released on: 2001-02-01.  https://youtu.be/1uSzYq-08Iw?si=XvAfQfuoWTkfCHiF Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot OFFICIAL. As seen in 2014's COSMOS: A SpaceTime Odyssey Written by Ann Druyan and Steven Soter  Cosmos Studios, Inc., Copyright © 2013 Passage written by Carl Sagan for the book Pale Blue Dot published by Random House,  Copyright ©1994 Democritus Properties, LLChttps://youtu.be/GO5FwsblpT8?si=iMpXuImhgPO9BPD1 Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection": V. Finale. Im Tempo des Scherzos Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection": V. Finale. Im Tempo des Scherzos · Carol Neblett · Marilyn Horne · Claudio Abbado · Chicago Symphony Orchestra · Chicago Symphony Chorus Claudio Abbado & Chicago Symphony Orchestra ℗ 1977 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Berlin Released on: 2017-04-21 https://youtu.be/rJWxpR8liF0?si=FMqBfKdVTXYfKDTz Gershwin: An American in Paris (Revised F. Campbell-Watson) · James Levine · Chicago Symphony Orchestra The World's Greatest Orchestras - Chicago Symphony Orchestra ℗ 1993 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Berlin Released on: 2021-01-09 https://youtu.be/nIw2WJEfZxo?si=qkuxYAcqJq_IzvYy Saint-Saëns - Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 78 "Organ" (Chicago Symphony Orchestra) Camille Saint-Saëns - Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 78 "Organ"Nikolaj Szeps-Znaider, Conductor Cameron Carpenter, Organ Live at Orchestra Hall, December 2022 https://youtu.be/5xrHCJbyG2M?si=CL03JHIsb0KhXRqQ Partita in A minor for Flute Alone BMV 1013 Provided to YouTube by The Orchard Enterprises Partita in A minor for Flute Alone BMV 1013 · Gene Pokorny Tuba Tracks ℗ 2005 Summit Records Released on: 1995-04-01 https://youtu.be/kQcdD33NXfw?si=cLjI8jGxwXeYxrz7 REGISTER NOW: 2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS  https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1 COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS https://forms.gle/ZswvHWEZK3HBozXZ7 FREE MUSIC:  Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”) https://dpi.wi.gov/fine-arts/wisconsin-arts-celebration-project-0 Max Joy - Erika Svanoe https://www.erikasvanoe.com/btn.html Support the show

    Gene Pokorny

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4.6
out of 5
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About

“Beyond ArtLess" with Chris Gleason, Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander is a podcast that explores the friendships and the community that exists in and outside of the arts and arts education. In each episode of Beyond ArtLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. What comes next is a fun-filled conversation revealing the joy of friendship and the artlessness of the hosts. Unlike most successful classrooms, this show is not well planned and probably not worth your time. 

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