The World According to Jen & Carolyn

Jennifer Patricia and Carolyn Jay

The World According to Jen & Carolyn is a podcast where history, politics, psychology, and humor collide in unexpected yet brilliant ways. Hosted by Jen, a community servant with a sharp wit and a knack for digging up the historical receipts, and Carolyn, a licensed marriage and family therapist who expertly unpacks the psychological layers behind it all, our show offers listeners a smart, hilarious, and refreshingly real conversation between two friends with 25 years of stories and opinions to share. Tiktok: @twatjcYouTubeInstagram: @theworldaccordingtojen_carolyn

  1. Jul 16

    Ghosts of the Invisible Empire: The History of the KKK, Memory Wars, and the Psychology of Extremism

    Send us Fan Mail In 1925, forty thousand robed Klansmen marched down Pennsylvania Avenue in broad daylight. By then, the Klan wasn't a fringe movement—it was mainstream. It elected governors and mayors, and for many Americans, membership was a sign of status, not shame. We're talking about it now because history has a way of repeating itself. As extremist groups become more visible under the current presidential administration and some on the right try to rewrite the Klan's history by claiming it was simply a movement of "the left," it's worth looking at what the Klan actually was, how it gained power, and what finally brought it down. - Jones, Ja'han. "The MAGA movement's KKK revisionism is revealing." *MS NOW* (Opinion), May 2026. https://www.ms.now/opinion/the-maga-movements-kkk-revisionism-is-revealing  **On the SPLC's 2025 Year in Hate & Extremism report and its "from extreme to establishment" framing:**  - "SPLC Releases Annual Year in Hate & Extremism Report." Southern Poverty Law Center, June 9, 2026. https://www.splcenter.org/presscenter/annual-year-hate-extremism-report-hard-right-groups-power-government/  - "Hate Map." Southern Poverty Law Center. https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map/  - "Frequently asked questions about hate and antigovernment groups." Southern Poverty Law Center, March 2026. https://www.splcenter.org/resources/guides/frequently-asked-questions-about-hate-and-antigovernment-groups/  - "SPLC's latest 'Year in Hate' report details shift 'From Extreme to Establishment' in Gulf South." WWNO, June 26, 2026. https://www.wwno.org/local-regional-news/2026-06-26/splcs-latest-year-in-hate-report-details-shift-from-extreme-to-establishment-in-gulf-south  - "SPLC report warns of far-right extremism in Alabama." Alabama Political Reporter (APR), June 2026. https://www.alreporter.com/2026/06/15/splc-report-warns-of-far-right-extremism-in-alabama/  **On the SPLC's federal indictment and the congressional hearing pushback:**  - "SPLC releases 'Year in Hate' report amid House grilling over fraud indictment." Courthouse News Service, June 2026. https://www.courthousenews.com/splc-releases-year-in-hate-report-amid-house-grilling-over-fraud-indictment/  **On methodological criticism of SPLC-derived extremism research:**  - "CSIS Study on Right-Wing Extremism Under Scrutiny for Relying on SPLC Data, Critics Say It Distorts Threat Landscape." political.org, May 1, 2026. https://political.org/2026/05/01/csis-study-on-right-wing-extremism-under-scrutiny-for-relying-on-splc-data-critics-say-it-distorts-threat-landscape/ **Books referenced on 1920s Klan history and its parallels to MAGA (discussed in the episode, not directly quoted):**  - Egan, Timothy. *A Fever in the Heartland: The Ku Klux Klan's Plot to Take Over America, and the Woman Who Stopped Them.* Viking, 2023. (As discussed in: "'A Fever in the Heartland' links Klan history to MAGA movement." *National Catholic Reporter*, August 2023. https://www.ncronline.org/culture/book-reviews/fever-heartland-links-klan-history-maga-movement)  - Gordon, Linda. *The Second Coming of the KKK: The Ku Klux Klan of the 1920s and the American Political Tradition.* Liveright, 2017.  **Additional commentary on Klan/MAGA historical parallels consulted for framing (presented in the episode as one side of a contested argument, not as settled fact):**  - "Opinion: A direct line from the Ku Klux Klan to MAGA." *Concord Monitor*, July 24, 2023. https://www.concordmonitor.com/2023/07/24/my-turn-the-direct-line-from-the-ku-klux-klan-to-maga-51688420/  - "From White Hoods to Red Hats: How MAGA revives the ideological legacy of the Klan in Trump's America." *Milwaukee Independent*, April 7, 2025. https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/editorial/white-hoods-red-hats-maga-revives-ideological-legacy-klan-trumps-america/  - "The MAGA movement is a KKK re-up. The latest Jan. 6 hearing proves it." *MS NOW* (The ReidOut Blog), 2022. https://www.ms.now/the-reidout/reidout-blog/summary-jan-6-hearing-kkk-rcna37960  - Barbero, Andrew Scott. "Republican Klansmen: The Ku Klux Klan and the Grand Old Party in Prohibition-Era Indiana." Dissertation, Southern Illinois University. https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/dissertations/2236/  **Psychological and sociological frameworks referenced (standard academic literature, not drawn from the above news sources):**  - Tajfel, Henri, and John Turner. Social Identity Theory (1970s work on minimal group paradigm).  - Adorno, Theodor W., et al. *The Authoritarian Personality* (1950). Later revised in: Altemeyer, Bob. Work on right-wing authoritarianism (RWA scale).  - Mutz, Diana C. "Status threat, not economic hardship, explains the 2016 presidential vote." *Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences*, 2018.  - Bandura, Albert. Moral disengagement theory (multiple works, e.g., *Moral Disengagement: How People Do Harm and Live with Themselves*, 2016).  - Arendt, Hannah. *Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil* (1963).  - Moghaddam, Fathali M. "The Staircase to Terrorism: A Psychological Exploration." *American Psychologist*, 2005.  - Solomon, Sheldon, Jeff Greenberg, and Tom Pyszczynski. Terror Management Theory (multiple works since the late 1980s).  - McAdam, Doug. Political process model of social movements (e.g., *Political Process and the Development of Black Insurgency, 1930–1970*, 1982).  *Note: the psychological and sociological theory citations above reflect well-established academic literature drawn from general knowledge rather than the web searches conducted for this script; readers should consult the original papers/books directly for full citations and any subsequent scholarly debate or revision.*

  2. Jun 30

    The Dark Enlightenment: Silicon Valley, Anti-Democracy, and the Future of Power

    Send us Fan Mail *Sorry about the audio on this one, folks! Things got a little wonky!  Today’s episode is… heavy. We’re diving into something that sounds like a sci-fi dystopia, but is very real: The Dark Enlightenment. Also known as NRx, or neoreactionary thought. And if you’ve never heard of it before, you’re not alone—but its influence is quietly growing in tech, politics, and online spaces. This is not just fringe internet philosophy. It intersects with power, wealth, and governance—and challenges the core assumption that democracy is the best system we’ve got. We’re going to discuss where it came from, what it believes, why it’s appealing to some, and why critics say it’s deeply dangerous. Brown, W. – Undoing the Demos Müller, J.W. – What is Populism? Nature Genetics (re: race & genetics) Hirschman, A.O. – Exit, Voice, and Loyalty Piketty, T. – inequality and political systems Levitsky & Ziblatt – How Democracies Die Brown, W. (2015). Undoing the demos: Neoliberalism's stealth revolution. Zone Books. Hirschman, A. O. (1970). Exit, voice, and loyalty: Responses to decline in firms, organizations, and states. Harvard University Press. Levitsky, S., & Ziblatt, D. (2018). How democracies die. Crown. Müller, J.-W. (2016). What is populism? University of Pennsylvania Press. Adorno, T. W., Frenkel-Brunswik, E., Levinson, D. J., & Sanford, R. N. (1950). The authoritarian personality. Harper & Row. Bandura, A. (1999). Moral disengagement in the perpetration of inhumanities. Personality and Social Psychology Review, 3(3), 193–209. Deci, E. L., & Ryan, R. M. (1985). Intrinsic motivation and self-determination in human behavior. Plenum. Freyd, J. J. (1996). Betrayal trauma: The logic of forgetting childhood abuse. Harvard University Press. Gilligan, C. (1982). In a different voice: Psychological theory and women's development. Harvard University Press. Gottman, J. M. (1994). What predicts divorce? The relationship between marital processes and marital outcomes. Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. Greenberg, J., Pyszczynski, T., & Solomon, S. (1986). The causes and consequences of a need for self-esteem: A terror management theory. In R. F. Baumeister (Ed.), Public self and private self (pp. 189–212). Springer-Verlag. hooks, b. (2004). The will to change: Men, masculinity, and love. Atria Books. Jost, J. T., & Banaji, M. R. (1994). The role of stereotyping in system-justification and the production of false consciousness. British Journal of Social Psychology, 33(1), 1–27. Keltner, D., & Haidt, J. (2003). Approaching awe, a moral, spiritual, and aesthetic emotion. Cognition and Emotion, 17(2), 297–314. Kruglanski, A. W., & Webster, D. M. (1996). Motivated closing of the mind: "Seizing" and "freezing." Psychological Review, 103(2), 263–283. Real, T. (1997)

  3. Jun 8

    The Masculinist Revival: Christian Nationalism, Patriarchy, and the Politics of Regression

    Send us Fan Mail Today’s episode is about a movement that has spent years operating on the political and cultural fringe, but is increasingly influencing mainstream conservative politics, religious institutions, online radicalization spaces, and even parts of the federal government. It’s often called the “masculinist” movement — a loose coalition of Christian nationalists, authoritarian traditionalists, online misogynists, white identitarians, and reactionary political influencers united by a common belief: That modern democracy — especially gender equality — has weakened society, undermined men, and must be reversed. The Creation of Patriarchy (Gerda Lerner) — https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-creation-of-patriarchy-9780195051858McKinsey: Diversity Matters Even More (2023) — https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/diversity-matters-even-more-the-case-for-holistic-impact BCG: How Diverse Leadership Teams Boost Innovation (2018) — https://www.bcg.com/publications/2018/how-diverse-leadership-teams-boost-innovation Global Perspectives on DEI in Science (ScienceDirect, 2025) — https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266638642500390X  Ni Una Menos — https://niunamenos.org.ar The Feminization of Resistance: #NiUnaMenos as Social Transformative Action — https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/2158379X.2023.2251109 Zapatismo and the Emergence of Indigenous Feminism (NACLA) — https://nacla.org/zapatismo-and-emergence-indigenous-feminism/ Decolonial Feminism and Buen Vivir — https://radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/decolonial-feminism-and-buen-vivir/ Ubuntu: "I Am Because We Are" — https://www.jyu.fi/en/blog/i-am-because-we-are-understanding-the-concept-of-ubuntu Ubuntu as Framework for Collective Wellbeing (Frontiers in Sociology, 2025) — https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/sociology/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2025.1555236/full The Invention of Women (Oyèrónkẹ́ Oyěwùmí) — https://www.upress.umn.edu/9780816624416/invention-of-women/  Haudenosaunee Governance: The Matrilineal Democracy That Shaped America — https://msmagazine.com/2026/03/05/haudenosaunee-government-matrilineal-democracy-america-constitution-native-women/ Indigenous Women's Influence on Modern Democracy and Women's Suffrage (PBS) — https://www.pbs.org/native-america/blog/indigenous-womens-influence-on-modern-democracy-and-womens-suffrage/ Rematriation (Michelle Schenandoah's organization) — https://rematriation.org  The Three Pillars of Radicalization (Kruglanski, Bélanger & Gunaratna) — https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-three-pillars-of-radicalization-9780190851125 Kruglanski et al. (2014) — The Psychology of Radicalization and Deradicalization — https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/pops.12163  Carnegie Endowment: Why Gender Is Central to the Antidemocratic Playbook — https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/11/women-lgbtq-democracy-authoritarianism-trump Christian Nationalism in Bolsonaro's Brazil — https://www.christiancentury.org/article/critical-essay/christian-nationalism-thriving-bolsonaro-s-brazil The Evangelical-Populist Nexus and Democratic Risks in Brazil — https://atlasinstitute.org/the-evangelical-populist-nexus-and-democratic-risks-in-brazil/ Christian Nationalism: Brazil to the United States — https://therevealer.org/the-solution-is-jesus-christian-nationalism-from-brazil-to-the-united-states/ SPLC report on Wilson's network — https://www.splcenter.org/resources/reports/doug-wilsons-religious-empire-expanding-northwest/ Who is Doug Wilson? (sourced overview) — https://dougwilsonsays.com/faq/who-is-doug-wilson/ What Pete Hegseth's Spiritual Mentor Wants for America — https://www.thebulwark.com/p/douglas-wilson-pete-hegseth-moscow-idaho-theocracy-dominionism-christian-reconstruction-theonomy Doug Wilson Didn't Change, Evangelical Institutions Did — https://anthonybbradley.substack.com/p/doug-wilson-didnt-change-evangelical  https://terryreal.com https://relationallife.com/working-with-men/ I Don't Want to Talk About It — https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/I-Dont-Want-to-Talk-About-It/Terrence-Real/9780684835396 Us: Getting Past You and Me — https://www.rodalesbooks.com

  4. May 19

    Caught on Camera: Cheaters, Surveillance, and the Spectacle of Betrayal

    Send us Fan Mail If you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, you know we usually live in the deep end of… everything. Politics, policy, democracy on fire, institutions crumbling—you know, light, breezy stuff. And look—we’re not abandoning that. The world is still doing whatever this is. But every once in a while, for our own sanity—and frankly, yours—we need a break. Not a “head in the sand” break. More like a “let’s examine something chaotic, ridiculous, and deeply revealing… but also kind of funny” break. Because sometimes the best way to understand society… is to watch people sprint across a parking lot while being chased by a camera crew.  Cheaters and the sinister normalisation of our surveillance society | Naomi Wolf | The Guardian Cheaters host Joey Greco’s stabbing was staged, paid actor says This Wild 2000s Reality Show Allegedly Faked a Stabbing With Joey Greco of 'Cheaters' - Los Angeles Times Atkins, D. C., Baucom, D. H., & Jacobson, N. S. (2001). Understanding infidelity: Correlates in a national sample. Journal of Family Psychology, 15(4), 735–749.  Brown, B. (2006). Shame resilience theory: A grounded theory study on women and shame. Families in Society: The Journal of Contemporary Social Services, 87(1), 43–52.  Coyle, P., Van Doorn, G., Teese, R., & Dye, J. (2025). Adverse childhood experiences and infidelity: The mediating roles of anxious and avoidant attachment styles. Family Process. ⚑ verify publication date Festinger, L. (1954). A theory of social comparison processes. Human Relations, 7(2), 117–140.  Freyd, J. J. (1996). Betrayal trauma: The logic of forgetting childhood abuse. Harvard University Press. Ghiasi, N., Rasoal, D., Haseli, A., & Feli, R. (2023). The interplay of attachment styles and marital infidelity: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Heliyon, 10(1), e23261.  Glass, S. P., & Staeheli, J. C. (2003). Not just friends: Protect your relationship from infidelity and heal the trauma of betrayal. Free Press. Gordon, K. C., Baucom, D. H., & Snyder, D. K. (2004). An integrative intervention for promoting recovery from extramarital affairs. Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, 30(2), 213–231.  Gottman, J. M. (2011). The science of trust: Emotional attunement for couples. W. W. Norton & Company. Gottman, J. M., & Silver, N. (2012). What makes love last? How to build trust and avoid betrayal. Simon & Schuster. Knopp, K., Scott, S., Ritchie, L., Rhoades, G. K., Markman, H. J., & Stanley, S. M. (2017). Once a cheater, always a cheater? Serial infidelity across subsequent relationships. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 46(8), 2301–2311 Marín, R. A., Christensen, A., & Atkins, D. C. (2014). Infidelity and behavioral couple therapy: Relationship outcomes over 5 years following therapy. Couple and Family Psychology: Research and Practice, 3(1), 1–12. Ortman, D. C. (n.d.). Transcending post-infidelity stress disorder (PISD): The six stages of healing. ⚑ verify full title, publisher, and publication year Perel, E. (2017). The state of affairs: Rethinking infidelity. Harper Collins. Real, T. (1997). I don't want to talk about it: Overcoming the secret legacy of male depression. Scribner. Real, T. (2022). Us: Getting past you and me to build a more loving relationship. Rodale Books. Tangney, J. P., Stuewig, J., Mashek, D., & Hastings, M. (2011). Assessing jail inmates' proneness to shame and guilt: Feeling bad about the behavior or the self? Criminal Justice and Behavior, 38(7), 710–734.

  5. Apr 13

    The Myth of the Wave: Feminism, Who Got Left Out, and the Urgent Return to Matriarchy

    Send us Fan Mail Happy belated Women’s History Month! Every wave of feminism promised liberation — so why did it keep leaving the same women behind? The feminist waves we were taught to celebrate were not failures of reach — they were strategic choices to maintain proximity to patriarchal power. That choice required the consistent sacrifice of women of color, queer and trans women, and working-class women. The 1990s cultural moment — Lilith Fair, 'girl power,' the rise of the female pop star — looked like matriarchy but was bounded by whiteness, industry gatekeeping, and commercial co-option. That same decade laid the groundwork for the industrial-scale exploitation of young women in entertainment. True return to matriarchy is not nostalgia. It is restoration of what colonialism and patriarchy actively destroyed: communal, non-hierarchical governance led by the women who were here first. DiAngelo, R. (2018). White fragility: Why it's so hard for white people to talk about racism. Beacon Press. Fanon, F. (1963). The wretched of the earth (C. Farrington, Trans.). Grove Press. (Original work published 1961) Freyd, J. J. (1994). Betrayal trauma: Traumatic amnesia as an adaptive response to childhood abuse. Ethics & Behavior, 4(4), 307–329. Freyd, J. J., & Birrell, P. J. (2013). Blind to betrayal: Why we fool ourselves we aren't being fooled. Wiley. Gunn Allen, P. (1986). The sacred hoop: Recovering the feminine in American Indian traditions. Beacon Press. Jost, J. T., & Banaji, M. R. (1994). The role of stereotyping in system-justification and the production of false consciousness. British Journal of Social Psychology, 33(1), 1–27. Jost, J. T., Burgess, D., & Mosso, C. O. (2001). Conflicts of legitimation among self, group, and system: The integrative potential of system justification theory. In J. T. Jost & B. Major (Eds.), The psychology of legitimacy (pp. 363–388). Cambridge University Press. Porges, S. W. (2011). The polyvagal theory: Neurophysiological foundations of emotions, attachment, communication, and self-regulation. Norton. Raymond, J. G. (1979). The transsexual empire: The making of the she-male. Beacon Press. Siegel, D. J. (2015). Brainstorm: The power and purpose of the teenage brain. TarcherPerigee. Temple, S. (1988). Child star: An autobiography. McGraw-Hill. Wells-Barnett, I. B. (1970). Crusade for justice: The autobiography of Ida B. Wells (A. Duster, Ed.). University of Chicago Press.

  6. Mar 24

    The Lonely Path to Violence — Understanding the Loneliness Epidemic and Political Radicalization

    Send us Fan Mail Today, Jen & Carolyn are diving into something that is often framed as a private pain but may actually be one of the most significant public health and political threats of our time: loneliness. And not loneliness as a vibe. Not “I wish I had brunch plans.” We’re talking about chronic social isolation — the kind that alters brain chemistry, distorts threat perception, and erodes a person’s sense of meaning and belonging. Because when we look at patterns of sexual violence, mass shootings, and certain forms of political extremism, we repeatedly see a profile emerge — socially isolated men, often young, often experiencing status loss, romantic rejection, economic precarity, or humiliation.  Cacioppo & Patrick, "Loneliness: Human Nature and the Need for Social Connection" (2008); Cacioppo et al., social neuroscience research Kruglanski et al. (2014), "The Psychology of Radicalization and Deradicalization"; Journal of Social Issues Survey Center on American Life, "The State of American Friendship" (2021); Hammarström & Janlert on male social networksMoonshot CVE research; FBI's work on domestic terrorism; Windisch et al. on disengagement from extremismSurgeon General Advisory on Loneliness & Isolation (2023) — Vivek MurthyWHO Commission on Social Connection (2023)Cacioppo & Hawkley — loneliness and threat hypervigilanceKruglanski's 3N Model / Significance Quest TheorySurvey Center on American Life (2021) — male friendship recessionMoonshot CVE / ISD Global — online radicalization researchThomas Joiner's Interpersonal Theory of Suicide — also relevant, given overlap between suicidality and radicalization risk in this populationbell hooks, "The Will to Change" — on how patriarchy wounds men and primes them for violence (strong decolonized feminist frame)

  7. Mar 12

    Power, Bodies, and Blood: When Politicians Kill

    Send us Fan Mail We tend to talk about violence in politics as something abstract. Policy violence. Structural violence. Metaphorical violence. But today, Jen & Carolyn are talking about literal violence. As in: people who ran for office, held office, advised presidents, or built political movements-and also murdered people. And what’s disturbing isn’t just that it happened—but how often power delayed consequences, softened accountability, or made people look the other way. This episode is about what happens when political entitlement meets the belief that some lives simply don’t matter. And spoiler: it’s not rare, it’s not partisan, and it’s not ancient history. Bandura, A. (1999). Moral disengagement in the perpetration of inhumanities. Personality and Social Psychology Review, 3(3), 193–209. https://doi.org/10.1207/s15327957pspr0303_3 Blee, K. M. (2002). Inside organized racism: Women in the hate movement. University of California Press. Freyd, J. J. (1996). Betrayal trauma: The logic of forgetting childhood abuse. Harvard University Press. Freyd, J. J., & Birrell, P. J. (2013). Blind to betrayal: Why we fool ourselves we aren't being fooled. Wiley. Fromm, E. (1964). The heart of man: Its genius for good and evil. Harper & Row. Horgan, J. (2008). From profiles to pathways and roots to routes: Perspectives from psychology on radicalization into terrorism. The ANNALS of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, 618(1), 80–94. https://doi.org/10.1177/0002716208317539 Jost, J. T., Banaji, M. R., & Nosek, B. A. (2004). A decade of system justification theory: Accumulated evidence of conscious and unconscious bolstering of the status quo. Political Psychology, 25(6), 881–919. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1467-9221.2004.00402.x Kernberg, O. F. (1984). Severe personality disorders: Psychotherapeutic strategies. Yale University Press. McCann, I. L., & Pearlman, L. A. (1990). Vicarious traumatization: A framework for understanding the psychological effects of working with victims. Journal of Traumatic Stress, 3(1), 131–149. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00975140 Müller, K., & Schwarz, C. (2021). Fanning the flames of hate: Social media and hate crime. Journal of the European Economic Association, 19(4), 2131–2167. https://doi.org/10.1093/jeea/jvaa045 Porges, S. W. (2011). The polyvagal theory: Neurophysiological foundations of emotions, attachment, communication, and self-regulation. W. W. Norton. Ridgeway, C. L. (2001). Gender, status, and leadership. Journal of Social Issues, 57(4), 637–655. https://doi.org/10.1111/0022-4537.00233 Watts, A. L., Lilienfeld, S. O., Smith, S. F., Miller, J. D., Campbell, W. K., Waldman, I. D., Rubenzer, S. J., & Fabian, T. J. (2013). The double-edged sword of grandiose narcissism: Implications for successful and unsuccessful leadership among U.S. presidents. Psychological Science, 24(12), 2379–2389. https://doi.org/10.1177/0956797613491970

4.5
out of 5
31 Ratings

About

The World According to Jen & Carolyn is a podcast where history, politics, psychology, and humor collide in unexpected yet brilliant ways. Hosted by Jen, a community servant with a sharp wit and a knack for digging up the historical receipts, and Carolyn, a licensed marriage and family therapist who expertly unpacks the psychological layers behind it all, our show offers listeners a smart, hilarious, and refreshingly real conversation between two friends with 25 years of stories and opinions to share. Tiktok: @twatjcYouTubeInstagram: @theworldaccordingtojen_carolyn

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