Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Transforming Culture, Developing People, and Getting Results

Katie Anderson
  • 5.0 (32)
  • Management
  • Updated Biweekly

Chain of Learning® is the leadership podcast for leaders and change practitioners who believe that people, not tools, are the foundation of lasting results. If you're working to transform your organization's culture, develop leaders at every level, and build teams that are capable, confident, and empowered to solve problems and innovate, this podcast is for you. Hosted by Katie Anderson, award-winning author of "Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn" and globally recognized expert in people-centered leadership, Chain of Learning explores how leaders break free from the Doer Trap™, and create the conditions in their organization for success and build a vibrant culture where impact is exponential. Each biweekly episode offers practical insights, reflective questions, and real-world examples to help you: - Develop leaders at scale, not just one at a time - Build high-performing cultures of continuous learning, grounded in psychological safety, trust, and empowerment, that thrive and grow - Lead culture transformation and change leadership with intention - Strengthen coaching culture, problem-solving, and leadership development across your organization - Move from managers who focus on outcomes to leaders who develop people, improve performance, and get results Grounded in human-centered leadership and adult learning practices, and informed by principles of the Toyota Way, Lean thinking, and operational excellence, Chain of Learning features conversations with influential thinkers and leaders shaping the future of leadership at scale and organizational learning. Past guests include Carol Dweck, Michael Bungay Stanier, Rich Sheridan, Barry O'Reilly, Steve Spear, Jim Womack, Gene Kim, and Larry Culp. Subscribe and follow Chain of Learning® to deepen your impact. Share this podcast with your colleagues, fellow change leaders, and friends so we can strengthen our Chain of Learning together. Join the conversation: ChainOfLearning.com Katie Anderson’s website: KBJAnderson.com Connect with Katie: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Read Katie's Shingo Publication Award-winning book: LearningToLeadLeadingToLearn.com Download the KATALYST™ Change Leader Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/Katalyst Popular Episode Topics Include: Leadership Development, Developing Leaders at Scale, The Doer Trap, Coaching Culture, Building a Culture of Learning, Culture Transformation, Change Leadership, Leading Change, Change Readiness, Change Adoption, Stakeholder Engagement, Organizational Change, Lean Leadership, Lean Thinking, Operational Excellence, Toyota Way, Toyota Leadership, People-Centered Leadership, Psychological Safety, Building Trust, Leadership Coaching, Break the Telling Habit, Leader as Coach, Continuous Improvement, Kaizen, Organizational Learning, Problem-Solving Culture, Developing People, High-Performing Teams, Learning Organization, Executive Leadership, Strategic Alignment, Leading Without Authority, Influence, Leading Through Influence, Leadership Identity, Gemba Leadership, A3 Thinking, PDCA, Growth Mindset, Leader Development, Japan Leadership Experience, Learning to Lead Leading to Learn, Leadership Podcast

  1. 6h ago

    84| You Want a People-Centered Learning Culture. What's Getting in the Way?

    People-centered. Learning organization. Culture of continuous improvement. We use a lot of different words to describe what we are trying to create. But do we actually mean the same thing? And if we all want it, what's stopping us from getting there? And what is the one thing that could have the biggest impact? So I asked. And you answered. Leaders and change practitioners around the world responded. There wasn't one shared definition or set of words for a people-centered learning culture. But the same essence was in almost every answer. The pressures we're all working in are real, and they're not going away. Yet the biggest impact comes from something we can influence: our own leadership behavior. And that starts with us. You’ll Learn: Why "people-centered" and "learning" are intertwined concepts that support each other in creating a learning organizationHow to describe what we're trying to build to leaders who never ask for a people-centered learning cultureWhy "respect for people" means more than treating people well, and how it's fundamental to developing people and organizational successHow urgency, firefighting, and short-term pressure to deliver results exacerbate our pull toward doing rather than developing peopleWhy the environment is seen as the barrier, and leadership behavior is the lever for changeIMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/84 Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonSubscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletterCheck out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comJoin us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/JapanTrip TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 02:03 What leaders actually want from their teams 04:31 Why urgency gets in the way of developing people 06:17 How ego and leader behavior limit ownership 08:22 When fear makes it harder to speak up and learn 10:37 The biggest lever for creating a people-centered culture 12:35 Why we can’t wait for the system to change 14:08 How caring pulls us into the Doer Trap 15:47 What “respect for people” really means 17:28 What people-centered leadership looks like in practice 18:07 How learning happens through the work 20:49 What people need to solve their own problems 22:35 Start with what you can influence

  2. Sep 2

    83| Keep Ownership at the Right Level: How to Sustain Organizational Transformation [with Anna Pessah]

    Overstepping ownership rarely looks like overstepping. It looks like moving things along. You know how something could be improved, so you give your suggestion. Work gets done, progress is visible, but the person you were there to develop doesn't build the capability they need, and the improvement doesn't sustain. Every change leader, manager, and executive does this at some point. And when we take on ownership of what isn't ours, we end up the bottleneck. As a transformational change leader at Kaiser Permanente, Anna Pessah watches this play out every day with the internal consulting team she leads, and with the physician and operational leaders she supports. We break down this challenge and share the practices to use instead. Leaders don't need to stop helping or teaching. It's about getting clear about what each person owns, and adjusting how you help based on what that leader needs in the moment. When ownership sits in the right place, people grow, improvements hold, and you have the space to do what is actually yours to do. You’ll Learn: How to make ownership explicit from the start, by contracting up front and saying out loud which hat you're wearing, coach or consultant or teacherWhy leaders learn good coaching practices best by being coached, and how making your own practice visible lets others model itWhy the pull to step in gets stronger the more you care about the outcomeWhy a new practice often swings too far one direction at first, and how to find the middle without abandoning itWhen asking coaching questions stops being helpful, and how to be directive without taking over the thinkingABOUT MY GUEST: Anna Pessah leads the internal consulting team that oversees the operating system at the North Valley Service Area of Kaiser Permanente, where she coaches physician and operational leaders on strategy, management systems, and the behaviors that support a culture of improvement. She is an industrial engineer from the University of Michigan and an ICF-certified coach. Anna brings a blend of systems thinking, operational improvement, and leadership development to help leaders generate insight, turn goals into action, and build habits that stick. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/83 Connect with Anna Pessah: linkedin.com/in/anna-pessah Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 03:16 Why change leaders struggle to keep ownership with leaders 05:22 When helping starts creating dependence 06:15 Building capability instead of becoming the bottleneck 07:12 Why doing more can make your job harder 09:23 Getting explicit about roles and ownership 11:25 Why new practices require reflection and adjustment 13:17 Making your leadership practices visible 16:03 How to give direction without taking over 22:16 What happens when leaders operate at the wrong level 24:05 The personal cost of staying in the weeds 25:30 Why helping can turn into overstepping 27:43 When coaching questions aren’t helpful 31:25 The power of listening—and leaving space 36:46 Why humility is essential to learning 38:18 Recognizing your own pull to control 39:06 Simple practices for keeping ownership where it belongs

  3. Aug 19

    82| Connect the Parts, Focus on People: Inside the Toyota Economic System [with Olivier Larue]

    Profit or cash. Efficiency or flexibility. Speed, or doing it right. Leaders feel like they have to make trade-offs like these all the time. But the choice often isn't real. Some contradictions are unavoidable. Others only look that way until you understand the real problem. The most effective organizations realize they don't have to pick a side if they can resolve the underlying tension. Olivier Larue has spent three decades helping companies do this, which he's documented in his three-book series The Toyota Economic System: a philosophy about people and society, the technical design that turns it into results, and the management practices that keep it alive through continuous learning. The real breakthrough is never the tools, optimizing one part of the system, or making unnecessary tradeoffs. It's how every part connects, and understanding the real problem to solve, so people remain the focus and results last. You’ll Learn: How to tell a contradiction that's real from one that only looks real, so you stop choosing between things you can't afford to loseWhy an economic lens, not an operational one, changes where you look for the answerWhy the number and order of Toyota's seven wastes aren't arbitrary, and why the first one drives how you understand the restWhy declaring people "empowered" means nothing without the conditions that let them act on itHow respect for people extends to avoiding layoffs even in downturns, and why that matters in a world of AI and supply chain disruptionsABOUT MY GUEST:Olivier Larue was trained by Toyota Motor Corporation and has spent thirty years helping Fortune 500 companies design and implement industrial manufacturing solutions, including more than a decade as a consultant with TSSC, the Toyota Production System Support Center, and hands-on work in the biopharmaceutical industry. He is the founder and president of Ydatum, and the author of the three-book series The Toyota Economic System. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/82 Connect with Olivier Larue: linkedin.com/in/olivierlarue Purchase a copy of The Toyota Economic System (three-book series): https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Economic-System-Environmental-StewardshipLearn more about Ydatum: ydatum.com Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:02:43 How a NUMMI experience shaped Olivier years later 05:14 Why call it the Toyota Economic System? 09:42 Profit vs. cash: the trade-off companies get wrong 12:32 Why Just-in-Time doesn’t mean zero inventory 16:30 What happens when company values and work conflict 20:20 Why leaders have to “earn” how they manage 21:42 Why Toyota’s seven wastes are in a specific order 23:38 The hidden cost of human waiting 27:20 Why leadership skills alone aren’t enough 30:05 Why organizations keep repeating the same problems 31:26 What Andon actually means for empowerment 35:17 The leadership response that makes problems safe to surface 39:16 Why Toyota can avoid layoffs during downturns 44:30 The unanswered question about AI and economic growth 48:30 How enthusiasm turns pull into push 50:44 Why isolated improvements don’t transform systems 54:35 Refusing the either/or trade-off

  4. Aug 5

    81| Adapt How You Lead: Situational Leadership in Practice [with Suzie Bishop]

    Your leadership style isn't the problem. Your default is. The gap between how you're leading and what the person in front of you actually needs is one of the most common and most invisible places leaders get stuck. Most of us default to one mode and don't notice the mismatch until something breaks down. Suzie Bishop has spent over a decade at the Center for Leadership Studies helping leaders close that gap and strengthen their leadership effectiveness. Her new book, Situational Leadership, puts nearly sixty years of research into a practical framework for reading the situation, building leadership flexibility, and adapting your approach. Suzie walks through the four leadership styles, how to read what someone needs in a given situation, and how to adapt your approach to coach, develop leaders, and lead through influence. The best leaders don't pick one style and commit. They pause, assess the situation, and flex to have the impact you intend. You’ll Learn: Why "leadership is influence" reframes how you lead, and why influence has nothing to do with manipulation or controlHow to diagnose what someone needs, and why one person can require four different approaches in the same conversationHow leadership flexibility and adaptability differ—and why knowing the styles isn't the same as knowing when to use themWhy only asking coaching questions can leave people stuck, and how to know when to step in with more directive leadershipHow the "power of the pause" helps you move from reacting out of habit to adapting with intentionABOUT MY GUEST: Suzie Bishop is VP of Product Development at The Center for Leadership Studies. She's a Certified Professional in Training Management, a Stakeholder Centered Coach, and a Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coach. Suzie is co-author of Situational Leadership: The Model for Leading Others, Navigating Change and Unlocking Performance and is currently writing her next book, Match: How to Meet Leaders Where They Are, with Marshall Goldsmith. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/81 Connect with Suzie Bishop: linkedin.com/in/suzie-bishop Purchase a copy: Situational Leadership: The Model for Leading Others, Navigating Change and Unlocking Performance by Suzie Bishop and Sam ShriverMatch: How to Meet Leaders Where They Are by Suzie Bishop and Marshall Goldsmith (November 2026)Learn more about The Center for Leadership Studies: situational.comFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 02:52 Why leadership is influence, not control 04:43 Creating the conditions without controlling 06:51 What Situational Leadership looks like in practice 07:35 Flexibility vs. adaptability: the critical difference 07:48 The four Situational Leadership styles 11:41 How to recognize your natural leadership tendency 13:08 When asking questions isn’t effective coaching 16:46 How to be directive without taking away ownership 17:37 The cost of not adapting how you lead 21:37 Why organizations need a common leadership language 24:05 Creating the conditions for people to ask for help 25:24 The leadership challenge even top executives struggle with 29:06 How to give direction without taking over 30:33 Influence versus control when you have authority 31:06 Three types of power that shape your influence 32:51 Why trust is your most important source of power 36:02 The difference between flexibility and adaptability 37:08 Practice an intention pause before you respond

  5. Jul 22

    80| Bad News First: How a Leader's Response Builds a Culture of Learning [with Isao Yoshino]

    How many problems are actually visible in your organization? Research shows senior leaders see just 4%. The other 96% stay hidden — invisible, yet still there. And some aren't even recognized by employees as problems anymore, because they have become the norm. We all say we want psychological safety. But you don't get it by saying you want it. People-centered leadership is about creating conditions for people to speak up and highlight issues by how you, and leaders across your system, respond. Recorded live with a group of global leaders participating in my Japan Leadership Experience in May 2026, this special episode celebrates the sixth anniversary of Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. You'll hear Isao Yoshino, a 40-year Toyota leader and the subject of my book, reflect on three of the book's most talked-about stories. These examples bring two of Toyota's mottos to life, "bad news first" and "no problem is a problem," and show why a leader's response is what turns problems into a culture of improvement: How his manager's response to a huge paint-shop mistake in his first months at Toyota shaped how he saw a leader's roleHow andon — signaling a problem and stopping the line — changed the culture at NUMMIHow he found the courage to highlight his failing water ski boat business to President Fujio ChoWhether on the front line or in the boardroom, creating the conditions where bad news comes first, and support follows, is what builds a culture of excellence. You’ll Learn: Why a leader's response to a mistake is fundamental to effective leadership and matters more than the mistake itselfThe two actions behind a bad-news-first culture: respond down to help, not blame, and signal up when something's off courseWhy andon is a leadership practice, not just a factory signal, that works from the shop floor to the executive suiteWhat the NUMMI turnaround shows about culture change: people adopt a better way when they discover it, not when they're toldWhy "thank you for this mistake" is the keystone move for building psychological safetyABOUT MY GUEST: Isao Yoshino spent forty years at Toyota, from the late 1960s to the early 2000s, where he helped shape the people-centered learning culture the company is known for today. He was a key leader in the Kan-Pro senior-management development program and led the training of the American managers at NUMMI, the Toyota-GM joint venture, where he hired John Shook. He is the subject of Katie Anderson's Shingo Publication Award-winning book, Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/80Order your copy of Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn: LearningToLeadLeadingToLearn.comFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonSubscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletterCheck out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comJoin us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantripTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:02:18 Andon: Why a leader's response matters 03:16 The paint mistake that shaped Mr. Yoshino's leadership 05:28 Why Mr. Yoshino was thanked for his mistake 09:34 The leadership lesson that lasted 40 years 11:22 Why Toyota starts every leader on the front line 12:18 Inside the early days of NUMMI 17:13 Why workers were afraid to stop the line 23:34 What changed the culture at NUMMI 24:40 Why leaders only see 4% of problems 25:16 Responding down instead of blaming 25:50 Asking for help at the leadership level 28:43 Why President Cho flew to a failing business 34:17 The power of bad news first 35:54 Mr. Yoshino's biggest leadership regret 38:19 When doing it yourself becomes the problem 39:05 The response that creates culture 40:28 The two behaviors every leader needs 42:02 Two questions to reflect on this week

  6. Jul 8

    79| Build Powerful People: Why Transformation Starts with Your Own [with Gary Peterson]

    Efficiency and cost savings aren't what makes operational excellence last. People are. The leaders who create enduring, high-performing organizations are after something beyond business results. They want a company where people end the day more capable, more confident, more energized than when it began. That's the difference between a workplace that wears people down and one that builds powerful people. Gary Peterson spent more than 30 years building that kind of culture of continuous improvement at OC Tanner. But the hardest part wasn't creating the systems or processes to get better outcomes. It was his own transformation — coming to see how, without meaning to, he'd become the leader getting in his people's way. Put people first, and the results follow.  And the deepest transformation you'll ever lead is your own. You’ll Learn: Why operational excellence only lasts when leaders focus on building people, not just cutting costs and eliminating wasteWhy the best leaders make an identity shift from being the expert with every answer to creating the conditions for others to solve problemsWhat it takes to move managers from enforcers to coaches and make continuous improvement something your team never fears, even as roles and headcount shiftHow to influence real organizational change when you have no authority to make anyone followWhy so many leaders give up on culture change too soon, and how long it really takesABOUT MY GUEST: Gary Peterson spent more than 30 years at OC Tanner, where he held leadership roles across manufacturing, marketing, and operations, most recently as Executive Vice President of Supply Chain and Manufacturing. He led the people-first transformation that earned OC Tanner the Shingo Prize and made it one of the few companies Toyota holds up as a global showcase for its system outside automotive. Gary is an Association for Manufacturing Excellence Hall of Fame inductee. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/79 Connect with Gary Peterson: linkedin.com/in/garypeterson Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com Join me on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantripTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:03:44 Why Toyota saw something different at OC Tanner 05:02 The real purpose of operational excellence 07:19 How Gary knew the culture was changing 09:00 Creating people who change the world 12:13 The outcome every leader should want 13:07 Two pillars that shaped the journey 14:26 Breaking a culture of fear and control 15:35 The five-minute habit that changed everything 17:15 Redefining what it means to be a manager 19:12 Why transformation takes longer than you think 20:05 What to do when leaders don't support the change 22:26 The experiment that almost got shut down 24:19 Helping managers make the coaching shift 25:23 When people outgrow their leaders 28:28 Why improvement should never threaten jobs 30:23 The manager who couldn't stop yelling 32:23 The leadership habit that destroys ownership 35:35 Becoming the leader you never wanted to be 37:00 The habit that was holding people back 38:01 The executive behavior that shuts people down 40:07 Proving your worth vs. creating conditions 45:37 Showing results isn't the same as showing people 49:53 Where transformation really begins 51:16 The question every leader should ask about their people 53:34 When helping starts limiting growth 55:14 The shift that made everything else possible

  7. Jun 24

    78| Strategy Isn't Enough: 9 Practices to Help Your Team Meet the Moment [with Karina Mangu-Ward]

    Have you poured months into a strategy your team couldn't bring to life? Or watched capable people work harder than ever, and still struggle to pull together as a team? High performance isn't about a better strategy, more talent, or longer hours. It's about how your team works together, every single day. Karina Mangu-Ward, author of Teams That Meet the Moment, has spent more than a decade helping complex organizations redesign the messy day-to-day of how people actually get things done together. Her belief: good everyday teaming habits are both good for people and good for results. You don't have to choose between them. Making this real doesn't require a reinvention. You just need the right structure and the intention to show up differently. In this episode, Karina shares simple, tangible practices you can use in your very next meeting or strategic project. You’ll Learn: The three lies leaders tell themselves about teamwork, and why believing them holds your team backHow the framework of the "Even Over" ends the swirl when your team is stuck choosing between two competing optionsWhy creating a "Safe to Try" process gets a team unstuck when you're chasing consensus and certaintyWhat a steady team cadence unlocks when everything around you feels like an emergencyThe instinct nearly every high performer has to unlearn before they can build a team that thrivesABOUT MY GUEST:Karina Mangu-Ward is a partner at August Public, an organizational change consultancy that helps large, complex organizations build more human-centered ways of working, whose clients include PepsiCo, Planned Parenthood, and Sundance. She's the author of Teams That Meet the Moment: 9 Practices for Unlocking Performance and Growth in Uncertain Times. Karina's passion is helping groups navigate complexity, gain insight, and unlock highly complex challenges. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/78 Connect with Karina: linkedin.com/in/karina-mangu-ward Purchase a copy of Karina's book: Teams That Meet the MomentLearn more about Karina’s company: aug.co Take the Team assessment: assessment.aug.co Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:03:01 Why great strategy still fails04:13 The hustle culture myth that's burning teams out05:20 Everyday habits drive extraordinary teams07:11 Meeting the moment in uncertain times09:13 The "Safe to Try" mindset that breaks gridlock11:18 Setting guardrails without limiting innovation12:06 Why small bets outperform big risks13:29 Unlearning the need to have the answer15:17 Why sticky practices beat complicated frameworks17:16 Simple retrospectives that strengthen learning20:19 The surprising cost of treating everything like an emergency22:09 Using "Even Over" to make better trade-offs25:28 Intention over reaction in decision-making30:32 When perfection becomes procrastination31:53 Why working in public accelerates learning34:22 The power of stories over instruction37:08 Intention + practice = better leadership39:14 What trade-off do you need to make?

  8. Jun 10

    77| Lead with Joy: A Business Strategy for Success [with Rich Sheridan]

    Joy isn't a perk. It's a business strategy. Have you ever wondered whether work has to feel this hard? Whether the team you've built can actually function without you? Whether there's a way to lead that doesn't burn you — or your people — out? Rich Sheridan built Menlo Innovations around one bold idea: ending human suffering in the workplace. The result is a company where joy isn't a slogan. It's how things actually get done. It's a place built on collaboration, human energy, and pride in what people create together. Joy isn't constant happiness. It's the long arc of meaning and contribution alongside people who care. And it becomes possible the moment you stop being the center of every problem and start creating the conditions for ownership, continuous learning, and yes, joy. You don't have to change the world. You just have to change your world. You’ll Learn: The mistake most leaders make about mistakes, and why more mistakes can get you ahead fasterWhy what looks like a questionable decision from below makes sense from aboveThe difference between joy and happiness, and why most leaders are chasing the wrong thingWhy running a small experiment will move you further than creating the perfect planWhat it really takes to build a company designed to last a hundred yearsABOUT MY GUEST:Rich Sheridan is the co-founder, CEO, and Chief Storyteller of Menlo Innovations, a software development and consulting firm known for its people-centered culture and focus on joy in the workplace. He is the author of Joy, Inc. and Chief Joy Officer and was inducted into the Shingo Academy in 2022 for his contributions to organizational excellence. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/77Connect with Rich Sheridan: linkedin.com/in/menloprezFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonSubscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletterCheck out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comJoin us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantripPurchase a copy of Rich's books: Joy, Inc. and Chief Joy OfficerLearn more about Menlo Innovations: menloinnovations.comTugboat Institute: tugboatinstitute.comTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:02:37 When work no longer feels sustainable05:26 The moment Rich realized the problem wasn't technology07:27 What an 8-year-old noticed about leadership08:23 Why hero-based organizations scale through exhaustion09:39 When caring becomes carrying12:21 The codependency leaders develop with crises14:09 What joy at work actually means17:13 Working with pride and delighting customers19:17 Why human energy is a leadership responsibility21:00 What's the cost of not having joy?23:28 From constant firefighting to two emergencies in 25 years25:24 Joy vs. happiness: What's the difference?27:02 Why joy isn't happiness every day32:17 The phrase that keeps Menlo moving forward 34:15 The leadership lesson Rich learned from flying40:39 Why Menlo isn't chasing exponential growth43:02 The book that changed Rich's career45:18 Why crisis practices work when there isn't a crisis47:28 Why your system keeps producing the same results49:38 The shift from carrying to creating conditions for change leadership51:46 Why stepping in can hold people back

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Chain of Learning® is the leadership podcast for leaders and change practitioners who believe that people, not tools, are the foundation of lasting results. If you're working to transform your organization's culture, develop leaders at every level, and build teams that are capable, confident, and empowered to solve problems and innovate, this podcast is for you. Hosted by Katie Anderson, award-winning author of "Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn" and globally recognized expert in people-centered leadership, Chain of Learning explores how leaders break free from the Doer Trap™, and create the conditions in their organization for success and build a vibrant culture where impact is exponential. Each biweekly episode offers practical insights, reflective questions, and real-world examples to help you: - Develop leaders at scale, not just one at a time - Build high-performing cultures of continuous learning, grounded in psychological safety, trust, and empowerment, that thrive and grow - Lead culture transformation and change leadership with intention - Strengthen coaching culture, problem-solving, and leadership development across your organization - Move from managers who focus on outcomes to leaders who develop people, improve performance, and get results Grounded in human-centered leadership and adult learning practices, and informed by principles of the Toyota Way, Lean thinking, and operational excellence, Chain of Learning features conversations with influential thinkers and leaders shaping the future of leadership at scale and organizational learning. Past guests include Carol Dweck, Michael Bungay Stanier, Rich Sheridan, Barry O'Reilly, Steve Spear, Jim Womack, Gene Kim, and Larry Culp. Subscribe and follow Chain of Learning® to deepen your impact. Share this podcast with your colleagues, fellow change leaders, and friends so we can strengthen our Chain of Learning together. Join the conversation: ChainOfLearning.com Katie Anderson’s website: KBJAnderson.com Connect with Katie: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Read Katie's Shingo Publication Award-winning book: LearningToLeadLeadingToLearn.com Download the KATALYST™ Change Leader Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/Katalyst Popular Episode Topics Include: Leadership Development, Developing Leaders at Scale, The Doer Trap, Coaching Culture, Building a Culture of Learning, Culture Transformation, Change Leadership, Leading Change, Change Readiness, Change Adoption, Stakeholder Engagement, Organizational Change, Lean Leadership, Lean Thinking, Operational Excellence, Toyota Way, Toyota Leadership, People-Centered Leadership, Psychological Safety, Building Trust, Leadership Coaching, Break the Telling Habit, Leader as Coach, Continuous Improvement, Kaizen, Organizational Learning, Problem-Solving Culture, Developing People, High-Performing Teams, Learning Organization, Executive Leadership, Strategic Alignment, Leading Without Authority, Influence, Leading Through Influence, Leadership Identity, Gemba Leadership, A3 Thinking, PDCA, Growth Mindset, Leader Development, Japan Leadership Experience, Learning to Lead Leading to Learn, Leadership Podcast

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