The Business of Dance

MENINA FORTUNATO

Welcome to the 'Business of Dance' with your host Menina Fortunato. Tune in as we dive into insightful interviews with industry experts, sharing personal journeys and career advice for aspiring pro dancers. This podcast is your key to turning your dance dreams into reality.

  1. 3d ago

    155 – Paul Kirkland: Madonna, Christina Aguilera & Backstreet Boys — Building a Career Beyond the Stage

    Recorded October 11, 2026 EPISODE SUMMARY Paul Kirkland is a dancer, choreographer, creative director and director whose career includes touring with Madonna and Christina Aguilera, performing in Burlesque and Battle of the Year, and working behind the scenes with the Backstreet Boys. Originally from Jacksonville, Florida, Paul moved to Los Angeles at 18 and built a career that expanded from performing onstage to helping shape major productions. In this conversation with Menina Fortunato, he shares how preparation, relationships and a willingness to keep learning opened doors. Paul takes us inside life on tour, from performing for massive crowds to protecting his body and maintaining relationships while constantly traveling. He explains how a back injury helped prompt his transition into assisting choreographers and learning the details of lighting, staging and production. He also discusses his work on the Backstreet Boys’ DNA tour and Sphere production, plus helping Jaafar Jackson prepare for Michael through ballet and recovery training. Beyond the credits, Paul opens up about rejection, reinvention and finding opportunities beyond performing. Answering questions from Business of Dance mentees, he shares advice on moving to LA, developing an individual movement style, presenting your work online and adapting your performance for the camera. His story offers dancers an honest look at building a lasting career through curiosity, adaptability and meaningful connections. SHOW NOTES (03:09) Starting dance at three and building a foundation in ballet(04:18) How one audition led to an unexpected first tour(07:40) Working with Christina Aguilera and touring with Madonna(10:32) The excitement of touring and performing for massive audiences(11:57) Protecting your body and making the most of downtime(13:38) Pivoting from performing to choreography and production(16:17) Working with the Backstreet Boys and wearing multiple production hats(17:18) Inside the Backstreet Boys’ immersive Sphere experience(21:35) Training Jaafar Jackson in ballet and recovery for Michael(26:01) Handling the disappointment of being released from a film scene(33:31) Moving to LA young and showing up with confidence(35:44) Developing your own movement style beyond studio training(39:25) How social media, agencies and casting platforms help dancers get seen(41:38) Creating a digital portfolio that makes your work easy to share(43:06) Adapting your performance from the live stage to the camera ABOUT PAUL KIRKLAND Paul Kirkland is a Los Angeles–based dancer, choreographer, creative director and director originally from Jacksonville, Florida. He began dancing at three and moved to LA at 18 to pursue a professional career. His credits include touring with Madonna and Christina Aguilera, performing in Burlesque and Battle of the Year, and choreographing performances for Dancing with the Stars. His work has expanded into production, stage direction and artist development. CONNECT WITH PAUL Instagram: @paulkirklandcreative

    155 – Paul Kirkland: Madonna, Christina Aguilera & Backstreet Boys — Building a Career Beyond the Stage
  2. Oct 18

    154 – Misha Gabriel: Michael Jackson’s This Is It, Step Up & Creating Your Own Opportunities

    Recorded October 4, 2026 EPISODE SUMMARY Misha Gabriel is a dancer, choreographer and actor whose career includes working with Janet Jackson and Mariah Carey, rehearsing for Michael Jackson’s This Is It, contributing choreography to Justin Timberlake’s tours, and playing Eddy in Step Up Revolution and Step Up All In. But behind those credits are cancelled tours, devastating rejection and moments when his next chapter was anything but certain. In this conversation with Menina Fortunato, Misha shares what it takes to keep building a career when the opportunities you worked for disappear. From booking his first tour at 16 to moving to Los Angeles at 17, Misha reveals how training, mentorship and relationships opened doors. He takes us inside the Michael Jackson audition where he was cut, the unexpected second chance that changed his life, and the lessons he learned rehearsing for This Is It. He also opens up about transitioning into acting and creating a European teaching tour instead of waiting for someone else to hire him. The conversation goes beyond the highlight reel, exploring intentional training, genuine networking, financial preparation and finding your own creative voice. Misha also answers questions from Business of Dance mentees about representation, choreography, moving to LA and handling the emotional highs and lows of the industry. This episode is for dancers, aspiring choreographers and parents who want an honest look at building a sustainable career while protecting the love of dance that started it all. SHOW NOTES (02:45) Growing up in a dance family and discovering hip-hop(05:45) Booking Aaron Carter’s tour at 16 and moving to LA(11:33) Choreographing for Justin Timberlake and clarifying his touring credits(12:36) Working with Janet Jackson and navigating cancelled tours(17:24) Getting cut from Michael Jackson’s audition, then earning another chance(22:34) Rehearsing This Is It and rebuilding after Michael’s passing(26:04) Lessons from Michael Jackson’s preparation, knowledge and attention to detail(29:39) Landing Step Up Revolution and pursuing an acting career(33:42) Choreographing for the Sacramento Kings and building a teaching tour(36:43) Creating opportunities through outreach and treating dance as a business(38:54) Building genuine relationships, staying connected and leading with value(48:14) Trusting your creative instincts and finding your choreographic voice(52:08) Training intentionally and preparing for a move to Los Angeles(1:03:46) Choreographing for So You Think You Can Dance and handling criticism(1:09:39) Navigating rejection without tying your happiness to career achievements ABOUT MISHA GABRIEL Misha Gabriel is a professional dancer, choreographer, actor and educator. His work includes performing with Janet Jackson and Mariah Carey, rehearsing for Michael Jackson’s This Is It, and portraying Eddy in Step Up Revolution and Step Up All In. His choreography credits include contributions to Justin Timberlake’s tours and So You Think You Can Dance. He also teaches internationally, helping dancers develop their artistry and professional skills. CONNECT WITH MISHA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mishagabriel/

    154 – Misha Gabriel: Michael Jackson’s This Is It, Step Up & Creating Your Own Opportunities
  3. Oct 11

    153 – Tina Landon & Travis Payne: Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Lady Gaga, Beyoncé & Rihanna

    Recorded August 3, 2026 | The Business of Dance VIP Day, Los Angeles EPISODE SUMMARY Tina Landon and Travis Payne helped create the choreography for Michael and Janet Jackson’s “Scream.” In this live conversation with Menina Fortunato, the award-winning choreographers reunite to share two very different perspectives on the same iconic project—and the career lessons behind it. Recorded at The Business of Dance VIP Day in Los Angeles, this episode brings dancers into the room with two artists whose work has shaped music videos and world tours. Tina traces her journey from Lancaster, California, to working with Janet Jackson, while Travis shares how his training in Atlanta and a homemade audition video opened the door to Rhythm Nation. Together, they revisit the pressure of creating for Michael and Janet: different movement styles, separate rehearsals, changing production demands, and the challenge of making the choreography feel right for both performers. Their stories reveal how much collaboration, preparation, and adaptability happen before the cameras roll. The conversation then opens to questions from Business of Dance mentees about career longevity, saving money, artistic identity, and what makes a dancer someone choreographers want to hire again. From attitude and reputation to arriving prepared and continuing to learn, Tina and Travis offer practical lessons for aspiring professional dancers, working performers, and choreographers building careers that last. SHOW NOTES 00:00 – Preview: dancing with Michael and Janet Jackson02:46 – Menina welcomes Tina Landon and Travis Payne07:26 – Tina’s beginnings and her path to Janet Jackson10:12 – Travis’s journey from Atlanta to Rhythm Nation16:29 – Creating “Scream”: Tina’s side of the story23:32 – Choreographing for Michael and Janet’s different styles26:32 – Travis’s path from Dangerous to “Scream”30:13 – Separate rehearsals and the secrecy surrounding “Scream”36:41 – Last-minute sets and the realities of production42:42 – Why “Scream” continues to connect across generations46:00 – Mentee Q&A: money and building a dance career51:33 – Staying true to yourself for a lasting career1:00:00 – What makes a dancer someone choreographers will hire?1:02:44 – The qualities that earn repeat bookings1:06:37 – Advice for dancers who want to choreograph ABOUT TINA LANDON & TRAVIS PAYNE Tina Landon is an Emmy-nominated choreographer and creative director whose credits include Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson, Rihanna, Ricky Martin, and Christina Aguilera. Her work includes Janet’s janet. and The Velvet Rope tours and co-choreography for “Scream.” Raised in Lancaster, California, she moved to Hollywood to pursue dance, performed as a Laker Girl, and appeared in Michael Jackson’s “Smooth Criminal.” She continues to share her experience with dancers navigating professional careers. Travis Payne is an Emmy-nominated choreographer and director who began touring with Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation 1814 World Tour. His extensive work with Michael Jackson includes the Dangerous and HIStory tours, “Scream,” and This Is It. His collaborators also include Lady Gaga, Beyoncé, and Usher. The founder of Travis Payne Productions, he has earned MTV and American Choreography Awards for his work. His career spans live performance, music videos, concert production, and film, bringing a broad perspective to developing and sustaining a career in entertainment. CONNECT WITH TINA LANDONInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamtinalandon/ CONNECT WITH TRAVIS PAYNEInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/travispayne1/Website: https://www.travispayne.com THE BUSINESS OF DANCEhttps://www.bizofdance.com/thepodcastSubscribe and leave a review to help more dancers discover the show.

    153 – Tina Landon & Travis Payne: Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Lady Gaga, Beyoncé & Rihanna
  4. Oct 4

    152 – Chad Geiger: Dance Agent at The Movement Talent Agency, Dua Lipa, Dolly Parton & BET Awards

    Recorded September 20, 2026 EPISODE SUMMARY Chad Geiger, a Los Angeles talent agent with The Movement Talent Agency, joins Menina Fortunato to explain what helps dancers get noticed, earn representation, and build lasting careers. Drawing on his own work with Dua Lipa, Dolly Parton, and James Corden, he shares what he understands now from the other side of the audition table—and what he wishes he had done differently as a performer. Chad traces his unexpected path from gymnastics in Texas to dance classes in college, professional work in Los Angeles, and an agency internship during the pandemic. He recalls how following directions helped him book a Dua Lipa music video and how embracing his personality changed his approach to auditions. He also explains why training with intention means seeking growth, building relationships, and getting into rooms with working professionals. The conversation turns to the business habits that support a dance career: clear communication, updated materials, availability, and a reputation for reliability. In a mentee Q&A, Chad discusses agency submissions, dance footage, specialty skills, working outside major markets, and the patience needed to develop a career. This episode is perfect for aspiring professional dancers, dancers seeking an agent, and represented performers who want a stronger partnership with their agency. SHOW NOTES (00:00) – Introducing Chad Geiger and his dance career (02:10) – From Dallas gymnastics to discovering dance in college (06:59) – Booking Dua Lipa and embracing your individuality (13:18) – Training with intention and building industry relationships (18:22) – From MTA dancer and intern to talent agent (27:00) – Agent communication, updated materials, and book-out dates (36:00) – Building a strong agency submission and dance reel (42:19) – Understanding opportunities at a boutique talent agency (46:47) – Seeking representation while living outside major markets (52:38) – Using tap skills to create a distinctive career (54:24) – Professional habits that help dancers get booked again (56:52) – Submission timing, referrals, and making a strong impression (66:15) – Patience and building a professional career over time (69:02) – Why reply-all matters when communicating about jobs (73:42) – How to connect with Chad and MTA ABOUT CHAD GEIGER Chad Geiger is a Los Angeles-based talent agent with The Movement Talent Agency and has more than a decade of experience in the dance industry. As a performer, he worked with Dua Lipa, James Corden, Dolly Parton, Meek Mill, and Miguel, with appearances on Carpool Karaoke, The Late Late Show with James Corden, and the BET Awards. Originally from the Dallas area, Chad trained as a gymnast before discovering dance in college. After building experience in Texas, he moved to Los Angeles and signed with MTA as a dancer. An internship during the pandemic later led to an assistant position and, eventually, a move into talent representation. Having experienced the industry as both a dancer and an agent, Chad is passionate about helping the next generation prepare for professional opportunities. His approach emphasizes intentional training, clear communication, strong submission materials, and helping dancers recognize and develop the qualities that make them distinctive. CONNECT WITH CHAD GEIGER Instagram: @chad_geiger Instagram: @mtaagency

    152 – Chad Geiger: Dance Agent at The Movement Talent Agency, Dua Lipa, Dolly Parton & BET Awards
  5. Sep 27

    151 - Industry Dance Awards 2025: Red Carpet Conversations with Menina Fortunato

    Recording / Interview Date: October 20, 2025 EPISODE SUMMARY What helps a dancer build a career that lasts? Join Menina Fortunato on the red carpet at Avalon Hollywood for the 2025 Industry Dance Awards, where conversations with performers, choreographers, educators, and industry leaders go beyond the spotlight to explore the work, relationships, and resilience behind a life in dance. From embracing your individuality to asking for help and protecting your reputation, this special episode brings together practical lessons for dancers, parents, teachers, and dance-industry professionals. Guests reflect on setbacks, creative opportunities, social media, and the importance of being someone others want to work with. Ian Eastwood champions uniqueness, Travis Wall speaks about seeking support, and Denise Wall shares perspective on learning through challenges. At the heart of the evening is Dancers Against Cancer. Tia Stokes, Jocelyn Basham, and Noah Lands bring the conversation back to community, compassion, and supporting dance families affected by cancer. Alongside career advice and personal stories, these interviews capture the projects and priorities guests shared on the night of the event. Whether you work in dance or simply love the art form, step behind the awards for an honest look at what sustains this community: purposeful work, human connection, and the courage to keep growing. SHOW NOTES 00:00 Red carpet highlights and welcome 01:59 Tia Stokes: Authenticity and resilience 03:31 Jocelyn Basham: The power of human connection 07:09 Enola Bédard: Enjoying the journey 12:40 Protecting yourself as an artist 15:10 Travis Wall: The courage to ask for help 18:03 Noah Lands: The story behind Dancers Against Cancer 22:29 Denise Wall: Learning from setbacks 32:04 Why your reputation matters 32:59 Brooke Lipton: Dance and television 45:24 Social media as your future résumé 47:15 Ian Eastwood: Embracing your individuality 54:38 Blake McGrath: Family and purpose 1:03:37 Building a lasting dance career 1:10:55 Bringing character to your movement ABOUT INDUSTRY DANCE AWARDS The Industry Dance Awards celebrates the people shaping dance and supports Dancers Against Cancer. This red carpet special brings together artists, educators, and advocates to share career lessons and highlight the importance of supporting dance families affected by cancer. CONNECT WITH INDUSTRY DANCE AWARDS & DANCERS AGAINST CANCER Industry Dance Awards: https://www.industrydanceawards.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/industrydanceawards/ Dancers Against Cancer: https://imadanceragainstcancer.org Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imadanceragainstcancer/ The Business of Dance: https://www.bizofdance.com/thepodcast Follow The Business of Dance on Spotify and share this episode with a dancer, dance parent, teacher, industry colleague, or dance fan.

    151 - Industry Dance Awards 2025: Red Carpet Conversations with Menina Fortunato
  6. Sep 20

    150 - Travis Lim: Lisa from Blackpink, Hollywood Arts, Lego, HHI, NBC's World of Dance, Canada's Got Talent, UCLA Graduate

    Interview Date: September 13, 2026 EPISODE SUMMARY Vancouver-born dancer, choreographer, and teacher Travis Lim joins Menina Fortunato to share his journey from childhood competitions and Michael Jackson-inspired solos to UCLA and professional dance work in Los Angeles. With credits including Lisa of BLACKPINK and Hollywood Arts, Travis offers an honest look at the artistic growth, relationships, and practical skills involved in building a career beyond the competition stage. Travis reflects on the value of his UCLA dance education while explaining what it did not teach him about the business of working professionally. He discusses his family’s investment of approximately $400,000 CAD and the difference between developing as an artist and preparing to earn a living. The conversation also explores how he uses AI in his creative work, moves through perfectionism and comparison, and approaches projects with curiosity and a willingness to keep learning. During the dancer Q&A, Travis shares his perspective on networking, direct bookings, choosing an agency, communicating with agents, and showing up confidently in auditions. He also discusses developing an individual style, making choices about competition and professional work, and finding time to recover. This episode is perfect for aspiring professional dancers, dance parents weighing college options, and competition dancers ready to understand what comes next. SHOW NOTES (00:51) – Introducing Travis Lim and his journey into professional dance(03:44) – Childhood training, early competitions, and Michael Jackson’s influence(07:29) – Moving to Los Angeles and choosing UCLA for dance(13:43) – What his dance degree did not teach about the industry(17:48) – Reflecting on a $400,000 CAD education investment(22:01) – Using AI to support creative work and organize ideas(28:46) – Working through perfectionism, comparison, and hesitation to create(34:36) – Dancing with Lisa of BLACKPINK and learning from her professionalism(36:28) – Behind the scenes of A Week Away and Hollywood Arts(42:49) – Why networking and relationships matter for direct bookings(45:59) – Choosing MSA and building communication with your agents(50:49) – Standing out in auditions with confidence and personal strengths(52:50) – Developing your own style while learning from other dancers(59:24) – Weighing competition dance against a growing professional career(62:36) – Recovery, downtime, and maintaining a life outside dance ABOUT TRAVIS LIM Travis Lim is a professional dancer, choreographer, artist, and teacher from Vancouver, Canada, based in Los Angeles. He began as a competitive dancer and freestyler, earning international recognition through the competition circuit and appearances on NBC’s World of Dance and Canada’s Got Talent. He moved to Los Angeles to attend UCLA, where he earned a Bachelor of Arts in Dance before continuing to build his professional career. His film and television experience includes Hollywood Arts, A Week Away: The Series, and Lego Friends: The Musical with Kenny Ortega. Travis has also danced with artists including Lisa of BLACKPINK, Victoria Justice, Machine Gun Kelly, DPR IAN, Paris Hilton, and AJ McLean. Alongside his professional work, he teaches and shares his approach to training, choreography, and artistic development. Drawing on his background in freestyle, crew training, and choreography, he encourages dancers to develop their individuality while continuing to learn from different styles and experiences. CONNECT WITH TRAVIS LIM Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/travylim/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@travylim

    150 - Travis Lim: Lisa from Blackpink, Hollywood Arts, Lego, HHI, NBC's World of Dance, Canada's Got Talent, UCLA Graduate
  7. Sep 13

    149 - Noelle Marsh: Michael Movie, So You Think You Can Dance, Tate McRae, Beyoncé, Palm Royale, Jennifer Lopez and Every Single Step.

    Interview Date: August 30, 2026 Episode Summary In Episode 149 of The Business of Dance Podcast, host Menina Fortunato sits down with Los Angeles-based choreographer, movement director, and performer Noelle Marsh. Noelle traces her path from a small dance studio in North Carolina to the world stage, beginning with dance at age three, competing nationally, and appearing on So You Think You Can Dance, which became her gateway into the industry. She opens up about assisting Mia Michaels, being mentored by Brian Friedman, and choreographing and later performing alongside Tate McRae. Noelle also shares what it was like dancing in the Thriller sequence of the Michael Jackson biopic and the emotional weight of stepping into that legacy. The conversation explores her transition from performer to creative lead, moving fluidly between dancing and choreography, the fear and freedom of rejection, and why she believes people feel your thoughts more than your words. The episode closes with a mentee Q&A about authenticity, standing out in the room, building connections, and navigating today's social-media-driven industry. Shownotes 00:50 – Introducing guest Noelle Marsh03:10 – Growing up dancing in small-town North Carolina04:33 – Getting the call to assist Mia Michaels07:00 – Moving to Los Angeles with no plan and no backup10:33 – First booking: the Oscars with Adam Shankman12:42 – Building a relationship with Brian Friedman15:07 – Choreographing and later dancing for Tate McRae19:20 – Dancing in the Thriller sequence of the Michael Jackson biopic24:04 – Transitioning from performer to choreographer27:00 – Winning Every Single Step and gaining creative confidence29:48 – Balancing dancing and choreography today32:37 – Authenticity, thoughts over words, and reframing rejection36:56 – Mentee Q&A: connections, standing out, and social media's role todayBiography Noelle Marsh is a Los Angeles-based choreographer, movement director, and performer whose career moves across contemporary dance, pop culture, film, television, and brand work. After growing up in North Carolina, she appeared on So You Think You Can Dance, assisted Mia Michaels, and became part of the original company of Shaping Sound. As a performer, Noelle has worked with artists including Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Jennifer Lopez, Dua Lipa, Tate McRae, Halsey, Mariah Carey, Gwen Stefani, and Katy Perry. Her choreography and movement-direction work includes projects for Tate McRae, The Voice, and campaigns for Bose, McDonald's, Motorola, and DSW. Connect with Noelle Instagram — @noellemarsh

    149 - Noelle Marsh: Michael Movie, So You Think You Can Dance, Tate McRae, Beyoncé, Palm Royale, Jennifer Lopez and Every Single Step.
  8. Sep 6

    148- Melissa Becraft: Brooklynettes, Blackpink, Disney, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Netflix, Lil Kim, and Hulu

    Interview Date: February 15, 2026 EPISODE SUMMARY In this episode of The Business of Dance Podcast, Menina Fortunato sits down with New York City-based dancer and content creator Melissa Becraft to unpack the persistence, creativity, and unexpected opportunities behind her career. Melissa shares how she started dancing at 12, moved from South Carolina to New York City at 18, and spent four years auditioning while booking only one professional dance job before finally landing a spot with the NBA Brooklynettes. That opportunity became a major turning point, leading to six seasons with the team, including four as captain. When the pandemic paused live performances, Melissa turned to social media as a creative outlet. What began as a TikTok account with zero followers quickly exploded, reaching 950,000 followers in eight months. She shares how recreating movie scenes, music videos, characters, and decades helped her build a recognizable creative identity and eventually turn dance content into a viable business through brand partnerships. She also gets candid about influencer rates, from early $500 videos to a $35,000 short-form campaign, while comparing the earning potential of content creation to traditional professional dance jobs. Throughout the episode and mentee Q&A, Melissa offers practical advice on confidence, versatility, performance quality, audition preparation, social media safety, time management, and overcoming comparison. Her story is a reminder that success rarely happens overnight—and that dancers do not have to be the “best” person in the room to build a thriving career. SHOW NOTES 02:47 – Melissa’s dance journey from South Carolina03:28 – Moving to New York at eighteen04:40 – Four years of auditions and rejection06:20 – Auditioning for the NBA Brooklynettes07:05 – Six seasons and becoming team captain09:08 – Pandemic sparks Melissa’s social media journey10:48 – Reaching 950,000 followers in eight months13:31 – Turning social media into paid partnerships15:45 – Breaking down influencer income potential18:10 – Performing with BLACKPINK at the VMAs21:07 – Q&A: Building confidence and overcoming comparison24:32 – Q&A: Why tricks don’t define dancers29:22 – Q&A: Creating safe, professional dance content33:26 – Q&A: Performance quality that books jobs39:08 – Turning your dancing into a business ABOUT MELISSA Melissa Becraft is a dancer and content creator based in New York City. She began her career with the NBA Brooklynettes, later becoming captain and choreographer. Her credits include the VMAs with BLACKPINK, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, and HBO’s Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. She has built an audience of more than 3.5 million followers across TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube and created dance content for Disney, Prime Video, Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and Kate Spade. CONNECT WITH MELISSA Instagram — @melissabecraft

    148- Melissa Becraft: Brooklynettes, Blackpink, Disney, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Netflix, Lil Kim, and Hulu

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About

Welcome to the 'Business of Dance' with your host Menina Fortunato. Tune in as we dive into insightful interviews with industry experts, sharing personal journeys and career advice for aspiring pro dancers. This podcast is your key to turning your dance dreams into reality.

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