X's and Joe's

Back Home Network
  • 4.7 (20)
  • BASKETBALL
  • UPDATED BIWEEKLY

X's and Joe's, part of the Back Home Network, is a podcast that lets you eavesdrop on an ongoing, 25-year conversation between two friends and Indiana University grads who have an unusual passion for exploring the formula for winning in today’s modern college basketball. Hosted by Bob Moats (cbobmoats) and Mike Wiemuth (iu-in-philly), this show examines trends in recruiting, metrics, strategy, and coaching -- with an emphasis on debunking myths and challenging popular assumptions. And while Bob and Mike's rooting interests may lie with the Hoosiers, this show takes an expansive view of the college basketball landscape beyond just Bloomington. In other words, it's a show for ALL serious college hoops fans who truly appreciate the nuances of the sport.

  1. FEB 6

    [52] Is the Cignetti Hire the GOAT? (with Galen Clavio)

    Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth welcome Galen Clavio to dive deep into whether Curt Cignetti's hire represents the greatest turnaround in college football history, explore what the numbers actually say, and discuss how a basketball school winning a football national championship changes everything. Still Processing the Impossible The trio opens by admitting they're all still struggling to process what just happened—and it's not just IU fans. Galen notes the rest of college football can't wrap their heads around it either, with people still joking online like "imagine if Indiana was good enough to win a national title—oh wait." They discuss how Cignetti created belief in the fan base through a steady boil rather than a flash fry, and how by the Ohio State game, IU fans had crossed the threshold from "I can't believe we're here" to "I can't wait to kick their butts." The Basketball Situation Before diving into football greatness, the conversation detours into IU basketball's current state. Galen questions why IU continues struggling to recruit the athletic players that Texas Tech, Alabama, and other programs seem to land consistently—a problem that's plagued multiple coaches. Bob notes the team lacks identity and feels mercurial, though the Purdue win showed what's possible when everything clicks. Mike explains this was always a "proof of concept" roster with a fixed ceiling, and the portal additions next year should stabilize things. Quantifying Greatness Mike breaks out the data comparing Cignetti to legendary coaches: Only five coaches in history won 90%+ of games in their first two years—Barry Switzer, Larry Coker, Ryan Day, Urban Meyer, and Terry BowdenAll of them inherited rosters loaded with NFL players (Coker inherited 34 future NFL players at Miami, including 13 Pro Bowlers)Cignetti inherited maybe a handful at best, then had to build through the portal on a condensed timelineWhen comparing first championship timelines, only Urban Meyer matched Cignetti's two-year mark among modern coachesThe kicker: Cignetti's 61-point variance above IU's 50-year baseline (32% to 93%) has never been done before—not even closeThe Bill Snyder Comparison Mike reveals the closest historical comparison is Bill Snyder at Kansas State, widely considered one of the greatest turnaround artists ever. But even Snyder started 6-16 in his first two years before building to sustained success. The difference? Snyder's best Kansas State teams (like the 11-1 squad in 1998) still fell short in championship moments. Cignetti didn't just match the journey—he completed it by winning the whole thing in year two. The Basketball School Paradox Bob introduces the revelation that IU is the first basketball blue blood to win a football national championship. Not Kentucky, not North Carolina, not Kansas—Indiana. Galen explores what this means for redefining IU's identity, noting that if you asked every 60-year-old alum at Power Five schools to stand if they've seen their team win both a football and basketball title, only three would stand: IU, Florida, and Michigan. The conversation turns philosophical about whether IU can maintain elite football success while not choking off oxygen for basketball and other sports—a question no basketball school has ever had to answer before. The Providence Factor Mike emphasizes to IU fans: this is not normal. Most fan bases never see their team win a national championship in their lifetime, and many programs' titles came before their current fans were born. The group discusses how IU's championship breaks all the meters for measuring greatness, with Galen noting there's an open debate about whether this was the greatest college football team of all time—a sentence that would have seemed like satire just two years ago. This episode brought to you by the Back Home Network and Home Field Apparel. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    1h 47m

  2. JAN 28

    [51] IU Wins a Football Natty -- Now What?

    Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth process the surreal reality of Indiana winning a national championship in football, explore the Mendoza moment that will define IU history, and discuss how this changes everything from rivalries to recruiting expectations across college sports. Processing the Impossible Bob and Mike try wrapping their heads around IU joining the exclusive club of just 11 programs with both football and basketball national titles—and how their main rival doesn't have either. They discuss whether the dopamine hit will ever fade, Chris Fowler's perfect call on the Mendoza run, and why the real lasting value isn't the replay but the memory of who you were with when it happened. (Bob admits he watched the McAfee feed instead of the regular broadcast because he wanted the energy of the one guy who believed in IU the whole way.) The Monolith Theory Bob introduces his "2001: A Space Odyssey" framework for understanding what just happened between IU and Purdue. For years, both programs were apes living in fear of the dark (elite programs), unable to command fire or use tools. Then the monolith showed up and taught one group how to use a bone as a weapon—while the other group still tries scaring opponents off with performative displays. The deeper question: what happens when one rival figures out they don't need to chant "you suck" anymore because they just expect to win? What This Championship Actually Buys Mike explains why this title will resonate differently than championships won in past eras: Winning now requires surviving a three-game tournament that produces the three most-watched games of the yearThis is probably the most viral championship run in modern college sports history—60 Minutes, Good Morning America, Jimmy Fallon coverageThe measurables: #3 portal class, completely changed access to four and five-star recruitsThe biggest long-term win: flipping the narrative from "they won't show up" to taking over stadiums at Alabama, Oregon, and Miami Studio 54 and the Zero-to-One Problem Mike's "Studio 54 effect" explains championship psychology: everyone wants in the club, nobody wants to be behind the rope. You might not be in the VIP room with Alabama, but you're at least on the dance floor now. The biggest variance isn't between one championship and five—it's zero to one. He watched it happen with Eagles fans, and now he's watching Purdue message boards explode with "Fire Bobinski" posts while fans mortgage all their emotions into basketball karma evening the score. The Next "What About Wisconsin?" Mike predicts Cignetti's success will become the new impossible standard thrown at coaches nationwide, just like Bo Ryan at Wisconsin became the "what about Wisconsin?" drinking game. The problem: there can usually only be one or two unicorn coaches who "do more with less" at a time, and what makes Cignetti statistically unique is having multiple one-in-several-thousand recruits become All-Americans on the same team. Bob warns that ADs chasing flash bangs instead of understanding infrastructure will lose—the portal shrinks timelines, but process still matters more than quick hits. This episode brought to you by the Back Home Network and Homefield Apparel. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    1h 46m

  3. JAN 15

    [50] Expectations For IU – What Are Reasonable Outcomes For Football and Basketball?

    Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth check in from opposite sides of the country to discuss IU's impending national championship matchup with Miami, dissect the Hoosiers' recent basketball struggles, and explore what reasonable expectations look like for both programs right now. The Rose Bowl That Wasn't Bob and Mike open with the bittersweet realization that their long-planned Back Home Network meetup this weekend could have been in Miami for the national championship game instead of Bloomington for an Iowa basketball matchup. They discuss IU's status as an 8.5-point favorite over Miami, the narrative that IU "hasn't been tested" despite beating Ohio State, Oregon, and Alabama by a combined margin that would make Sherman's March to the Sea look gentle, and why Miami fans might want to check out Homefield Apparel's vintage Hurricanes collection before Monday's game. Basketball's Reality Check The conversation shifts to IU basketball's brutal week—blowing a 16-point lead to Nebraska and getting boat-raced by Michigan State at Breslin. Bob and Mike break down what's actually happening beyond the disappointing results: The roster gaps they identified in the preseason are showing up exactly as predicted—too many elite shooters, not enough drivers or rim protectionLamar Wilkerson is performing at a legitimate All-American level (near 10 BPM), but when defenses key on him and Tucker DeVries, IU struggles to generate offense elsewhereConerway is the only true penetrator, and when teams neutralize him, the offense becomes predictable and easy to defendAgainst physically superior teams like Michigan State, IU's passing windows close dramatically and their carefully designed actions don't create the same looks they get in practice The Roster Construction Story Mike explains the brutal timeline Darian DeVries faced building this roster—hired in mid-April right as the portal was opening, with top guards already off the board before IU even had a full staff assembled. They discuss how next year's portal cycle can address many of these gaps, and why this season's limitations don't predict future struggles. Scheme and Psychology Bob dives into the X's and O's, noting IU is getting nearly 20% of their possessions off cuts and off-ball screens—historically high for DeVries—because they have to manufacture offense without dominant drivers or post players. When defenses adjust and take away these actions, IU doesn't have a clear "what's next" option. The mental side matters too: watching players tunnel-vision toward Wilkerson late in games or run actions mechanically rather than reading the defense shows a team still figuring out who they are. Looking Ahead They close by previewing Saturday's Iowa game as a better measuring stick than the Michigan State beatdown, discussing upcoming video breakdowns of IU's offensive schemes, and teasing a deep dive into Curt Cignetti's historical context as potentially IU's greatest athletic department hire ever—regardless of Monday's outcome in Miami. This episode brought to you by the Back Home Network and Homefield Apparel. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    1h 28m

  4. JAN 1

    [48] Bill Murphy Part 4 - Branch, the Splendid Splinter, and Early NIL at IU

    Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth wrap up their conversation with IU historian Bill Murphy, exploring the Hurrying Hoosiers era, legendary shooters, early NIL deals, and the dramatic transition from Branch McCracken to Lou Watson that paved the way for Bob Knight. The Splendid Splinter Bill shares unforgettable stories about Jimmy Rayl's two 56-point performances, including how Rayl insisted he would've scored 80 against Michigan State if Branch hadn't pulled him with four minutes left—and how 17 of his makes would've been three-pointers. Mike recounts witnessing an elderly Rayl at a Larry Bird exhibition game, calibrating his first shot then draining seven straight from Steph Curry range, hitting nothing but net each time. Early NIL and Record-Breaking Rebounds Bill reveals a forgotten piece of IU history: Walt Bellamy was promised a car by a Bloomington auto dealer if he set the Big Ten rebounding record. During the final home game, Branch McCracken and Jimmy Rayl sat on the bench with a gum wrapper and golf pencil, tracking every rebound to make sure Bellamy earned his wheels. Bellamy's 33-rebound performance still stands as the Big Ten record. Watson's Rollercoaster Ride Lou Watson inherited disaster in 1965—just 120 points returning after seven seniors left—and finished tied for ninth (dead last) in his first year. But he engineered the first last-to-first turnaround in Big Ten history the very next season, winning the 1967 championship. Bill then reveals the shocking reason Watson's final team collapsed: two players stopped passing to each other because they were dating the same girl, derailing what should've been a championship run with one of IU's greatest recruiting classes. Branch's Final Stand When doctors told Branch a heart attack meant retirement, he shocked everyone by celebrating: "How many people know how they're gonna die? I'm still coaching." Bill also shares his lingering frustration with AD Bill Orwig, who accused Branch of illegal recruiting and forced him to take a lie detector test, and praises Lou Watson's grace in helping Bob Knight transition into the program. This episode brought to you by the Back Home Network and Homefield Apparel. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    42 min

  5. 12/31/2025

    [47] Bill Murphy Part 3 - The Legend of Branch McCracken

    Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth continue their conversation with IU historian Bill Murphy, shifting from football glory to basketball history. This installment dives deep into the Branch McCracken era, revealing why Bill's favorite IU coach isn't who most fans would expect. Branch McCracken: The Sheriff Bill makes his case for Branch McCracken over Bob Knight, drawing fascinating parallels between the two legendary coaches. Branch coached 24 years (1938-1965, minus three years serving in WWII), finishing first or second in the Big Ten in 12 of those seasons with two national titles. Knight coached 29 years, finishing first or second in 16 seasons with three titles. Bill argues that had NCAA tournament rules been different, Branch might have won in 1960 when IU beat Ohio State by 16 in Bloomington after their last 12-game win streak, while Knight's 1987 title came when IU tied for the Big Ten title with three other teams. Bill recounts meeting Branch as an eighth grader in New Albany, a handshake he didn't want to wash for a week, and describes a six-foot-four presence who earned nicknames like "The Sheriff" and "The Bear" while drinking coffee at every shop on the Bloomington square to keep tabs on his players. The Van Arsdale Twins' Supernatural Symmetry The conversation turns to Tom and Dick Van Arsdale, whose three-year careers produced jaw-dropping statistical similarities: Separated by just 12 points over 72 games (1,252 to 1,240)Only 10 rebounds apart (729 to 719)Both hit exactly 15 field goals in their career-high game against Notre DameConstantly pranked Branch by wearing mismatched socks after he tried to distinguish them by colorOfficials sometimes let the wrong twin shoot free throws because they couldn't tell them apart Mike shares stories from his father, who lived in the SAE house with the twins and John McGlocklin—three of IU's seven all-time NBA All-Stars living in the same room. Chesty Chips and Television History Bill reveals how IU became the first university to televise basketball games in 1950 when radio announcer Paul Lennon convinced a Terre Haute potato chip company to sponsor games for $1,500 each. After one broadcast, Chesty Potato Chips went from one shift to three and sold out across the region, causing the price to jump to $5,000 per game the next year. Branch's Boys Bill shares his favorite McCracken moments—from officials threatening a technical for every step back to the bench (so players carried him), to another ref getting him to sit down by saying "your fly is open," to Branch's simple philosophy: if he could only win one game all year, it would be against Purdue. That hatred paid off in 1940 when IU swept Purdue but finished second in the Big Ten, yet still received the NCAA tournament invitation over the conference champs. This episode brought to you by the Back Home Network and Homefield Apparel. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    46 min

  6. 12/30/2025

    [46] Bill Murphy Part 2 - The 1967 Rose Bowl Journey

    Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth welcome back IU historian Bill Murphy for part two of their deep dive into Indiana football history, perfectly timed as the Hoosiers prepare for their first Rose Bowl appearance in nearly 60 years. The conversation picks up with the 1967 team's journey to Pasadena and weaves through decades of IU football lore. The 1967 Rose Bowl Journey Bill shares fascinating details about how the '67 team learned of their Rose Bowl invitation—John Pont called Harold Morrow around 7:30 PM after the Purdue victory. The hosts discuss the historic irony that had the Big Ten started sending teams to the Rose Bowl in 1945 instead of 1946, Indiana would've been first rather than last. Bill reveals that IU sent 35 charter jets to Pasadena, the largest airplane migration of any school that year, and recounts how Hoosiers literally founded Pasadena in 1874 as "the Indiana Colony" before T.B. Elliott renamed it with a Chippewa word meaning "Valley Between the Hills." OJ Simpson, USC, and What Could Have Been The conversation turns to the Rose Bowl matchup against USC's dominant team featuring OJ Simpson and Ron Yary. B ill shares player accounts that Simpson was so fierce he bent face masks while being tackled, though multiple players insist OJ didn't actually cross the goal line on the second touchdown. The 14-3 final score was respectable against what Bill calls one of the best teams in the nation—USC had demolished top-five teams Notre Dame and Texas that season, making IU's performance far less embarrassing than the score might suggest. Deep Cuts: The 1945 Team and Eisenhower The trio uncovers a remarkable piece of history: in 1945, Army wanted to play undefeated Indiana to determine the national champion, but Supreme Commander Dwight Eisenhower refused to let the game happen. Bill discusses his definitive book on the '45 team and shares memories of George Taliaferro, who signed a book for him "To Murph" at a 2007 homecoming signing, recounting Taliaferro's profound impact on both IU and civil rights. Herman Wells and the NCAA Probation Era The conversation takes a serious turn as Bill explains the Phil Dickens era and NCAA probation. Dr. Robert Mizon once corrected Bill's understanding: Dickens had proof that Purdue, Michigan, and Ohio State were doing the same recruiting violations but Herman Wells refused to expose them, throwing away the evidence and insisting IU follow the rules regardless of others. Bob shares personal stories of Wells' presence and character, including how Wells integrated Bloomington restaurants in the late 1940s by threatening to make the Gables off-limits to all students if George Taliaferro couldn't eat there. 1968 Robbery at Purdue Bill recounts the controversial 1968 game at West Lafayette where Purdue was given a first down after officials measured twice, moving the chains between measurements to give Purdue the yardage they needed—what Bob diplomatically calls "recalibration" but Bill calls what it is: cheating. This episode brought to you by the Back Home Network and Homefield Apparel. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    48 min

  7. 12/29/2025

    [45] Bill Murphy Part 1 - The Last Hurrying Hoosiers & The Cardiac Kids

    Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth welcome IU historian and author Bill Murphy for a deep dive into the legendary 1967 IU football season - the "Cardiac Kids" who gave fans heart attacks every Saturday on their way to the Rose Bowl. Bill's Personal IU Journey Bill Murphy shares unforgettable stories from his youth as an IU superfan in the 1960s, including some decisions that seemed perfectly reasonable at the time. There's the 11-year-old refusing to wear his coat at halftime (mom got blamed for the loss), the 14-year-old challenging Bubba Smith to a fight outside the locker room, and the simple joy of $1 knothole tickets at a Memorial Stadium that looked completely different than it does today. Memorial Stadium and Old Bloomington The evolution of Memorial Stadium from its 1960 opening through the temporary bleachers era, plus what Bloomington looked like before it became a modern college town. The stadium was built to double capacity and prove IU was "a Big Ten team," while married student housing trailers sat where the south end zone parking is now. TV games were rare - maybe one per year if you were lucky - so most fans relied on radio broadcasts with Max Schumacher. John Pont's Revolutionary Offense How Pont's innovative system featuring dual-threat quarterbacks and remarkable player freedom created one of the most entertaining teams in IU history. Harry Gonso at 5'9" ran the option and rolled out to see over linemen, while John Isenbarger's notorious fake punts got him benched mid-game against Michigan - only to be brought back to score the winning touchdown after Gonso pleaded his case. "Punt, John, Punt!" became the rallying cry, and Terry Cole even predicted his own star performance the night before the Purdue game. The Cardiac Kids: Nine Games, Nine Near-Heart Attacks Bill walks through a season where every game came down to the wire, featuring comebacks, fake punts gone wrong (and right), and a fumble on the 4-yard line that saved the season. Down 10-0 to Kentucky, scored twice in the 4th quarter (one called back, scored again anyway)Michigan: Blew 20-0 lead, Isenbarger benched for fake punt, brought back to score winning TDPurdue: Boilermakers on IU 4-yard line, 19-14, roses on the line - then the fumbleOnly blowout all season? Arizona at 42-7The 63-yard punt that sealed the Bucket Game and sent IU to Pasadena The Forgotten 1945 Championship Team A brief detour into the team that might deserve a share of a national title, featuring future MLB and NFL Hall of Famers returning straight from World War II. Bo McMillan had players hitchhiking from Camp Atterbury with discharge papers to make the season, and famously soaked footballs in hotel bathtubs the night before rain games. With Ted Kluszewski, Pete Pihos, and George Taliaferro on one roster, Galen Klaviyo thinks they deserve co-national champion recognition. Part 2 will cover the Rose Bowl game itself and the Branch McCracken basketball transition. On the mics: Bob Moats, Mike Wiemuth, and Bill Murphy This episode brought to you by the Back Home Network and Homefield Apparel. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    1h 7m

  8. 12/06/2025

    [44] The Ohio River Rivalries with special guest Josh Burton

    Bob Moats, Mike Wiemuth, and special guest Josh Burton from Everything College Basketball reunite to break down the rekindled border wars between Indiana, Kentucky, and Louisville as the three programs meet over consecutive Saturdays in December. Growing Up in Basketball Country The guys open with personal stories about how geography and family shaped their allegiances in the heartland of college hoops. Josh Burton shares his journey from a Kentucky-loving kid playing College Slam on Sega Genesis while his IU-fan dad looked on, to becoming one of the voices of Everything College Basketball. Josh's dad from Kentucky roots, moved to Indiana, raised UK fansThe "ugly girlfriend" Brian Evans comparisons at the Boys and Girls ClubGeography matters: South of I-64 = Kentucky rival, North = Purdue rivalEconomic migration brought Kentucky fans north decades ago The Golden Age of the Rivalry A walk down memory lane to when these matchups defined college basketball in the Midwest, featuring 50-50 splits at the Hoosier Dome and Freedom Hall that felt more like college football atmosphere. The Dome and Freedom Hall rotating neutral sites with perfect 50-50 ticket splitsBob Knight's late entrances causing entire stadiums to erupt (only 2% could see him)Mike Davis's 2002 incident liquidating 35% of his chip stack in one momentFreedom Hall's designated smoking room and nightmare parking lotThe 2012 Sweet Sixteen in Atlanta: IU-UK reunion on the way to UK's title The Modern Coaches: New Chapter, Same Synchronicity All three programs now feature modern, uptempo coaches running similar five-out systems after years of divergent philosophies. The synchronicity creates potential for recruiting battles and on-court drama not seen since the mid-eighties. Kenny Payne: Possibly the worst major hire in 30 years (lost exhibition games to start)Pat Kelsey's beautiful flare screen offense at Louisville proving doubters wrongMark Pope's year-one home run at Kentucky vs. year-two injury crisisLamar Wilkerson recruitment: DeVries beats Pope for the elite shooter UK desperately needsFirst time since mid-eighties all three programs are nationally relevant together Breaking Down IU vs. Louisville The hosts dissect Saturday's Indianapolis matchup with tactical depth, focusing on Louisville's 36 three-point attempts per game and IU's rebounding challenges. Sananda Fru as the X-factor: relentless rebounder who gets all his points within three feetWhy this is a Sam Alexis day, not Reed Bailey dayMikel Brown vs. Conerway/Enright: Can IU frustrate the talented but sometimes immature freshman?Long rebounds from 36 three-point attempts require boxing out 3-4 feet beyond the rimFoul trouble could doom IU's seven-man rotation against Louisville's 10-deep bench Kentucky's Crisis and the UK-IU Preview Josh Burton provides honest analysis of Kentucky's early-season struggles, from the Louisville loss to getting boat-raced by Michigan State and North Carolina, while explaining why Pope isn't on the hot seat despite fan outrage. Three marquee losses in three different ways: quit when opponents throw haymakersThe connectivity problem: Do these players even like each other?How injuries have devastated Pope's shooting-based systemWhy 50% of Big Blue Nation needs to "shut the hell up" on TwitterStill 15th in KenPom at 5-3 with incredibly difficult schedule The weekend ahead: IU-Louisville at 2:15pm in Indianapolis, followed by IU-Ohio State Big Ten Championship at 8:17pm - potentially the craziest IU sports weekend ever. On the mics: Bob Moats, Mike Wiemuth, and Josh Burton (Everything College Basketball) This episode brought to you by the Back Home Network and Homefield Apparel. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    2h 1m
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About

X's and Joe's, part of the Back Home Network, is a podcast that lets you eavesdrop on an ongoing, 25-year conversation between two friends and Indiana University grads who have an unusual passion for exploring the formula for winning in today’s modern college basketball. Hosted by Bob Moats (cbobmoats) and Mike Wiemuth (iu-in-philly), this show examines trends in recruiting, metrics, strategy, and coaching -- with an emphasis on debunking myths and challenging popular assumptions. And while Bob and Mike's rooting interests may lie with the Hoosiers, this show takes an expansive view of the college basketball landscape beyond just Bloomington. In other words, it's a show for ALL serious college hoops fans who truly appreciate the nuances of the sport.

Information

  • Creator
    Back Home Network
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    53
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Back Home Network 2023
  • Show Website
    X's and Joe's

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