Saving the World From Bad Ideas

WePlanet
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The world is shaped by ideas—some good, some bad, and some that seemed good at the time. This is a podcast about rethinking the things we take for granted, challenging sacred cows, and admitting when we’ve been wrong. With your host, awarded environmental author and activist Mark Lynas, we take a deep dive into the environmental, political, and social debates shaping our future—without the outrage, tribalism, or easy answers. Help us save the world from bad ideas. Because the future depends on us getting it right.

  1. Bad Idea #43 "Fishing in the Antarctic" with Matt Savoca, Ted Cheeseman, and Lucia Morillo

    3D AGO

    Bad Idea #43 "Fishing in the Antarctic" with Matt Savoca, Ted Cheeseman, and Lucia Morillo

    Should we be fishing for krill in the Antarctic?  In this extraordinary episode, Mark Lynas connects via satellite with three researchers aboard a Sea Shepherd vessel in the Southern Ocean near the South Orkney Islands—one of the most remote and important whale feeding grounds on Earth. Matt Savoca (Stanford/California Marine Sanctuary Foundation), Ted Cheeseman (UC Santa Cruz/Happy Whale), and Lucia Morillo (Sea Shepherd science coordinator) are conducting the first truly independent survey of this region. Their mission: understand the overlap between recovering whale populations and an expanding industrial krill fishery that takes 620,000 tons annually—the same amount of food consumed by hundreds of thousands of whales, seals, and penguins. This conversation exposes the krill paradox (why krill didn't explode after whales were removed), whale poop's critical role as ocean fertilizer, climate change shrinking krill habitat southward, and why the Marine Stewardship Council's sustainability certification is now facing objections from WWF and other major conservation groups. 🧠 Topics Discussed: 🐋 Fin whale recovery: from 500,000 to 10,000, now rebounding in South Orkneys 🦐 Krill fishery: 12 vessels from 5 countries, 11 months/year industrial operation 📊 Misleading 1% claim: catch calculated across Europe-sized ocean, concentrated in wildlife hotspots 🔬 First independent survey: Sea Shepherd enabling fishery-independent research 🌡️ Climate crisis: sea ice loss collapsing krill breeding in northern regions 💩 Krill paradox: whale poop fertilizes phytoplankton that feeds krill—ecosystem engineering 🎯 Fishing overlap: whales concentrate where vessels fish; empty water elsewhere 🧬 Genetic sampling: pregnancy rates, body condition, sex determination via crossbow biopsy 📡 Echo sounding: mapping krill concentrations at ecologically relevant scales for predators 🐟 Salmon farming connection: most krill feeds farmed Atlantic salmon in coastal pollution zones 🏷️ MSC certification under fire: WWF, ASOC, WePlanet object to sustainability claim 👨‍🏫 Guest Bios: Matt Savoca is a marine biologist at Stanford University and California Marine Sanctuary Foundation studying whale ecology and ocean conservation. Ted Cheeseman is a research fellow at UC Santa Cruz and co-founder of Happy Whale, a citizen science platform that has identified nearly every living humpback whale globally. Lucia Murillo is science coordinator for Sea Shepherd, leading campaigns exposing industrial fishing in Antarctica and other protected waters. 📚 Recommended Reading: ● Sea Shepherd Antarctic web series on YouTube  ● Happy Whale platform for whale identification  ● ASOC (Antarctic and Southern Ocean Coalition) MPA proposals  ● Studies on krill paradox and whale fertilization 💬 Quote Highlights: "Fin whales were reduced by about 95% in 70 years—approximately the lifespan of one single fin whale. The scale of destruction is remarkable." — Matt Savoca "In Antarctica, everything eats krill or eats something that eats krill. The food chains are really, really short." — Lucia Murillo "Each krill fishing vessel takes as much food daily as 100-500 whales. It's structured for conflict." — Ted Cheeseman "The 1% claim uses a denominator the size of Europe. But if all fishing happens in Paris and London, is that appropriate?" — Matt Savoca "This is arguably the place with the highest density of great whales anywhere on the planet. A crown jewel in the world of recovering oceans." — Ted Cheeseman 🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org 📥 Support their work and connect with us 💰 Support Sea Shepherd: seashepherd.org  🐋 Learn more: happywhale.com  💬 Email us: podcast@weplanet.org  📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast  👁️ Follow: @weplanetint

    1h 16m
  2. Bad Idea #42 "not enough land for renewables" with Tom Heap

    MAR 4

    Bad Idea #42 "not enough land for renewables" with Tom Heap

    Is there really not enough land for renewables?  In this conversation, Mark Lynas sits down with Tom Heap—BBC Countryfile presenter, Radio 4's Rare Earth co-host, and author of Land Smart: How to Give People and Nature the Space to Thrive—to tackle one of the most important yet least discussed environmental issues: land use. Heap makes the case that there's plenty of space for solar (and wind has minimal footprint), especially since solar excels at multifunctional use—combining with housing, car parks, farming, and floating on water bodies. The real land crisis? Livestock occupies a third of Earth's land and over half of agricultural land, delivering 6-16 times less protein per acre than crops. Meanwhile, biofuels require 50-100 times more land than solar for the same energy output, making aviation's biofuel dreams a land use nightmare. But the conversation goes deeper: rewilding's evolution from absolutist vision to pragmatic spectrum, why regenerative farming must avoid yield penalties, and the troubling vibe shift in climate politics. Despite renewables now being cheaper than fossil fuels and China's coal use peaking, environmental issues have dropped down the political agenda. Heap argues we're in a trough, not permanent decline—but only if we keep talking about it and bust the myths that disempowers action. 🧠 Topics Discussed: ⚡ Land requirements for solar vs nuclear vs wind (solar is tiny, shareable) 🌾 Livestock's massive footprint: 1/3 of Earth's land, half of agricultural land 🌱 Biofuels disaster: 50-100x less efficient than solar per area ✈️ Aviation biofuels would require America's entire land area just for domestic flights 🐑 Sheep-wrecked hills: green deserts masquerading as countryside 🌿 Rewilding evolution: from absolutist to spectrum, avoiding food footprint export 🥩 Regenerative farming challenge: needs yield parity or risks overseas displacement 🧬 Gene editing progress: crops partnering with fungus for nitrogen, holy grail of nitrogen-fixing cereals 🇨🇳 Pakistan's grid death spiral: behind-the-meter solar boom crashing legacy infrastructure 🌍 Climate vibe shift: why environmental issues dropped off the agenda despite tech wins 📊 Pluralistic ignorance: 66% support climate action but think they're a minority (actually believe it's 40%) 🚗 Myth busting: rich countries driving less since 2005, renewables now cheaper, others ARE acting ⚖️ Slavery analogy: decades-long progressive fights face backlash during insecurity (French Revolution parallel to Ukraine war) 👨‍🏫 Guest Bio: Tom Heap is a regular presenter on BBC One's Countryfile and co-presenter of Radio 4's Rare Earth. He's author of Land Smart: How to Give People and Nature the Space to Thrive and co-creator of the 39 Ways to Save the Planet podcast and book. 📚 Recommended Reading: ● Land Smart: How to Give People and Nature the Space to Thrive — Tom Heap ● 39 Ways to Save the Planet — Tom Heap & Dr. Tamsin Edwards ● Research on land use efficiency per energy type ● Studies on pluralistic ignorance in climate action 💬 Quote Highlights: "We're moving to a world for the first time in human history where we can have more energy while burning less stuff." — Tom Heap "To power inland flights of America on biofuels, you need the entire land area of America." — Tom Heap "66% of people globally support climate action and would give 1% of income—but they believe they're a minority at 40%. This pluralistic ignorance is profoundly disempowering." — Tom Heap "The fact that cleaner energy is now cheaper is a huge deal. That penny is just beginning to drop." — Tom Heap 🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org 📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow: @weplanetint

    56 min
  3. Bad Idea #41 "nature is fragile" with Fred Pearce

    FEB 25

    Bad Idea #41 "nature is fragile" with Fred Pearce

    Is nature really as fragile as we've been led to believe?  In this conversation, Mark Lynas sits down with veteran environmental journalist Fred Pearce, author of Despite It All: A Handbook for Environmental Hopefuls, to challenge one of environmentalism's core assumptions. Pearce argues that nature isn't fragile—it's resilient, adaptive, and constantly evolving. The evidence shows ecosystems have survived for hundreds of millions of years through asteroid strikes and ice ages, constantly adapting through species turnover and change. Conservation's obsession with protecting "pristine" ecosystems in aspic misses the point: nature needs room to evolve, not to be frozen in time. Novel ecosystems mixing native and invasive species aren't failures—they're nature adapting. This conversation covers the defused population bomb (global fertility now at replacement level), peak stuff (material consumption declining in rich countries), successful technofixes (renewables now cheaper than fossil fuels), and the critical role of indigenous communities in protecting ecosystems. Pearce makes the case for pragmatic optimism: the worst could still happen, but pessimism is for defeatists. From rewilding Europe's wolves to China's authoritarian eco-modernism, the evidence suggests humanity can rise to the challenge—if we embrace innovation over nostalgia. 🧠 Topics Discussed: 🌿 Why nature is resilient and adaptive, not fragile 🦎 Species turnover and novel ecosystems as signs of health 👶 The defused population bomb (fertility at 2.3 children globally) 📦 Peak stuff: declining material consumption in rich countries 🔧 Technofixes that worked: acid rain, ozone layer, renewables 🇨🇳 China as authoritarian eco-modernist pioneer 🐺 Rewilding success: wolves returning across Europe 🌍 Indigenous land management vs. fortress conservation ♻️ Circular economy and mining rare metals from waste 🚗 Why rich countries are driving less since 2005 👨‍🏫 Guest Bio: Fred Pearce is a veteran environmental journalist and author who has covered global environmental issues for over 40 years, primarily for New Scientist. His latest book is Despite It All: A Handbook for Environmental Hopefuls. 📚 Recommended Reading: ● Despite It All: A Handbook for Environmental Hopefuls — Fred Pearce  ● The New Wild — Fred Pearce ● Eleanor Ostrom on managing the commons  ● Ecomodernist Manifesto 💬 Quote Highlights: "The evidence is that nature is resilient, it's adaptive, it evolves. Nature's been going for hundreds of millions of years, whereas we've not." — Fred Pearce  "Change isn't bad. Change is actually an example of ecosystems that are functioning well, are doing what they should do, are adapting, are changing, evolving and moving on." — Fred Pearce  "The population bomb has been defused. By the second half of this century, we're going to have a stable population." — Fred Pearce "Since about 2005, almost all rich world countries, people have been driving, including the US, which is the car economy on stilts really. Even there, they're driving less." — Fred Pearce  "Pessimism is destructive and it narrows your horizons. Optimism allows you to look for potential, look for things that will work, push at the open doors." — Fred Pearce  🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org 📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Email: podcast@weplanet.org  📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast  👁️ Follow: @weplanetint

    51 min
  4. Bad Idea #40 "the food system is fundamentally broken" with Jan Dutkiewicz

    FEB 18

    Bad Idea #40 "the food system is fundamentally broken" with Jan Dutkiewicz

    Is industrial food actually the villain — or one of humanity's greatest achievements? In this provocative episode, Mark Lynas sits down with Jan Dutkiewicz, assistant professor at the Pratt Institute and contributing editor at the New Republic, co-author of Feed the People: Why Industrial Food is Good and How to Make it Even Better. Dutkiewicz challenges the consensus that "the food system is broken" — arguing that industrial production has created unprecedented abundance and eliminated diseases of malnutrition. The real problems aren't industrialization itself, but specific fixable issues: worker exploitation, factory farming's animal welfare crisis, and agricultural lobbies' outsized power. 🧠 Topics Discussed: 🏭 Defining industrial food: scale, standards, regulation creating abundance (not just "ultra-processed") 🍽️ Why "the food system is broken" is the wrong diagnosis (it's a complex system, not a broken appliance) 📚 The food writing industry: Michael Pollan, Wendell Berry, and agrarian romanticism 🌾 Wendell Berry as anti-Norman Borlaug: romanticizing pre-industrial famine and malnutrition 👶 Child labor realities: agriculture has most injuries and deaths, minimum age exemptions persist 🏛️ Agricultural exceptionalism: carve-outs from labor laws, environmental regulations, animal welfare 🐖 Manure lagoons, gestation crates, and why artificial insemination gets bestiality exemptions 🍖 Factory farming inefficiency: 80%+ calorie loss converting feed to meat (not actually "efficient") 🌍 Environmental impact: livestock causes the biggest footprint by far (emissions, land, water, biodiversity) 🧬 "Grass-fed" as marketing: labels like "humane" and "free-range" are unregulated buzzwords 🧪 Plant-based alternatives and cellular agriculture: the real path forward (not small farms) 🚫 Europe banning "burger" and "sausage" labels: livestock lobby blocking competition 👨‍🏫 Guest Bio: Jan Dutkiewicz is assistant professor at the Pratt Institute in Brooklyn and contributing editor at the New Republic. He co-authored Feed the People: Why Industrial Food is Good and How to Make it Even Better with Gabriel Rosenberg, offering a data-driven defense of industrial food systems while demanding better labor rights, animal welfare, and environmental regulation. 📚 Recommended Reading: ● Feed the People: Why Industrial Food is Good and How to Make it Even Better — Jan Dutkiewicz & Gabriel Rosenberg ● Michael Pollan — The Omnivore's Dilemma ● Wendell Berry — Essays on agrarianism ● Bruce Friedrich — Meat (Good Food Institute) ● Studies on agricultural exceptionalism and labor laws ● Research on livestock environmental impacts 💬 Quote Highlights: "Industrial food means food produced using principles of scale, standards, and regulation to create abundance. On balance, that has made the world a better, healthier, more abundant place." — Jan Dutkiewicz "Saying the food system is broken is like saying your house is broken when the air conditioner fails. Identify specific problems and seek specific solutions." — Jan Dutkiewicz "The Dust Bowl — perhaps America's greatest ecological disaster — was caused by poor land management by small-scale family farmers before agriculture was industrialized." — Jan Dutkiewicz "Every call to produce everything from scratch is implicitly a call for more unpaid labor by women in the household." — Jan Dutkiewicz "If we abolished factory farms: 99% less chicken, 97% less pork, 67% less beef. We'd all be vegetarian overnight." — Jan Dutkiewicz "8 out of 10 worst-paid jobs in America are in food. The people getting results aren't food writers — they're food workers themselves." — Jan Dutkiewicz 🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org 📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Email: podcast@weplanet.org  📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast  👁️ Follow: @weplanetint

    1h 7m
  5. Bad Idea #39 "but that's just a technofix" with Adam Dorr

    FEB 13

    Bad Idea #39 "but that's just a technofix" with Adam Dorr

    Can technology save us from environmental collapse — or is it just another false promise?  In this epic conversation, Mark Lynas sits down with Adam Dorr, Director of Research at RethinkX and author of The Degrowth Delusion, to explore four simultaneous technological revolutions reshaping our world: energy (solar, wind, batteries), transportation (EVs and autonomous vehicles), food (precision fermentation), and labor (AI). 🧠 Topics Discussed: 💡 Technology as "practical knowledge" and how it compounds autocatalytically (self-accelerating) 📈 S-curve adoption and X-curve decline: Why disruptions happen in 15-20 years, not centuries⚡ Solar, wind, batteries (SWB): Now the cheapest electricity ever, with near-zero marginal cost 🌞 Why massive solar overbuilding beats battery storage (the Clean Energy U-curve) 📦 Modularity advantage: Solar/batteries work from wristwatches to gigawatt plants 🔌 From scarcity to super-abundance: Rethinking efficiency as "use what's available" not "use less" 🚗 EVs and autonomous vehicles: Battery breakthroughs and transportation-as-a-service 🥩 Precision fermentation and cellular agriculture: 10-100x more efficient than animal farming 🏛️ Political resistance: GMO bans, cellular meat bans, and horseshoe theory opposition 🤖 The fourth disruption: AI replacing cognitive, operator, and general human labor 💼 Post-labor economics: Universal basic income, luxury services, and navigating abundance 🌍 Why abundance makes allocation easier than scarcity (and nobody has all the answers yet) ⚛️ AI existential risk vs opportunity: Superintelligence as doom or salvation? 🌟 Star Trek vs Terminator: Which future will we choose? 👨‍🏫 Guest Bio: Adam Dorr is Director of Research at RethinkX, a nonprofit think tank analyzing technology disruption. He authored The Degrowth Delusion: Dispelling One of History's Truly Terrible Ideas and researches energy, food, transportation, and labor disruption. He's also a science fiction author exploring superintelligence and humanity's cosmic future. 📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● The Degrowth Delusion — Adam Dorr ● RethinkX research reports⁠ https://www.rethinkx.com⁠ ● Clayton Christensen — The Innovator's Dilemma ● Tony Seba and disruption theory⁠ https://tonyseba.com⁠ ● Mark Lynas — Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet⁠ https://www.marklynas.org/books/six-degrees/⁠💬 Quote Highlights: "Life is unequivocally better on almost every indicator you care to measure than it was historically — life expectancy, infant mortality, literacy, everything down the line." — Adam Dorr "The more energy we have available, the more abundant energy is, the more useful things we can do to garner prosperity." — Adam Dorr "My team has documented more than 1,700 instances of new technologies spreading like wildfire once they catch — it only takes 15 to 20 years." — Adam Dorr "Solar panels just sit there and happily make electricity for decades at near zero marginal cost. They really are a marvelous technology." — Adam Dorr "We're headed into a world of fantastic abundance. That means hugely expanding our capacity to restore ecologies we've damaged." — Adam Dorr "Our environmental issues are not an epic struggle of good versus evil. They are just problems. And problems are solvable with the right tools. Now for the first time in history, we finally have the tools we need." — Adam Dorr 🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org 📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: @weplanetint

    1h 44m
  6. Bad Idea #38 "Solving energy is enough for solving climate" with Bruce Friedrich

    FEB 5

    Bad Idea #38 "Solving energy is enough for solving climate" with Bruce Friedrich

    Can we really solve climate change just by fixing energy — and ignore food?  In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Bruce Friedrich, founder and President of the Good Food Institute, to tackle Bad Idea #37: “Solving energy is enough for solving climate.” Bruce argues that focusing exclusively on decarbonising energy while ignoring food systems is one of the biggest blind spots in climate policy. From antibiotic resistance and zoonotic disease to geopolitics, national security, and the S-curve of technological change, this conversation makes the case that the protein transition must stand alongside the energy transition if we’re serious about saving the planet. 🧠 Topics Discussed: ● ⚡ Why decarbonising energy alone only solves about half the climate problem ● 🍖 Global meat demand: why “eat less meat” has never worked ● 🌍 Land use, deforestation, and rewilding at planetary scale ● 🧫 Cultivated meat, fermentation, and next-generation plant proteins ● 📉 The inefficiency of feeding crops to animals ● 🦠 Antibiotic resistance and industrial animal agriculture ● 🦆 Pandemic risk and zoonotic spillover from livestock systems ● 🐟 Cultivated seafood and the future of ocean recovery ● 📈 The protein S-curve and lessons from solar, EVs, and the internet ● 🏛️ Why government support matters — and where it’s already happening ● 🇨🇳🇮🇳 China, India, and the geopolitics of alternative proteins ● 🌱 Farmers, land sparing, and the future of agriculture ● 🌎 Food security, resilience, and feeding a growing world 👨‍🏫 Guest Bio: Bruce Friedrich is the founder and President of the Good Food Institute (GFI), a global non-profit accelerating the transition to alternative proteins. He has worked for more than three decades at the intersection of food, climate, and innovation. Bruce is the author of Meat: How the Next Agricultural Revolution Will Transform Humanity’s Favorite Food and Our Future, and a leading global advocate for plant-based, fermentation-derived, and cultivated meat as climate, biodiversity, and food-security solutions. 📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● Meat: How the Next Agricultural Revolution Will Transform Humanity’s Favorite Food and Our Future ● Good Food Institute ● GFI Europe ● SYSTEMIQ & Good Food Institute – The Protein Transition: Pathways to Lower Climate, Land, and Water Impacts ● What’s Cooking? (UNEP alternative proteins report) ● Livestock’s Long Shadow (FAO) ● World Resources Institute: Creating a Sustainable Food Future ● IIASA land-use & food systems research ● Our World in Data: Meat and dairy production ● UNEP & ILRI: Preventing the Next Pandemic 💬 Quote Highlights: “Focusing on energy alone while ignoring food is like lifting your foot off the accelerator — but keeping it on the highway to hell.” “If alternative proteins reach 50%, we could free more land than the entire Amazon rainforest.” “People aren’t going to give up meat — so we need to change how meat is made.” “This isn’t a moral problem. It’s a science and engineering problem.” “The protein transition is one of the most tractable climate solutions we have.” 🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human well-being. Learn more at https://weplanet.org 📥 Join the Conversation: 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

    1h 6m
  7. Bad Idea #37 "1.5 degrees" with Kwesi Quagraine and Erle Ellis

    JAN 28 · BONUS

    Bad Idea #37 "1.5 degrees" with Kwesi Quagraine and Erle Ellis

    Is the 1.5°C temperature target helping or hindering climate action? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with his co-authors Kwesi Quagraine (climate scientist at NCAR) and Erle Ellis (professor at University of Maryland Baltimore County) to discuss their groundbreaking new paper published in Nature that proposes a complete rethinking of how we measure climate progress. The team argues that global average temperature targets — the organizing principle of climate policy since Paris 2015 — are intangible, unactionable, and increasingly counterproductive now that we've essentially crossed the 1.5°C threshold. Instead, they propose the Clean Energy Shift (CES) — a simple, measurable metric that tracks how fast clean energy is displacing fossil fuels in real time. 🧠 Topics Discussed: 🌡️ Why global average temperature targets are intangible and don't translate into clear policy actions 🔢 The problem with "1.5 to stay alive": What happens when you cross a threshold framed as a limit of safety? 📊 Introducing the Clean Energy Shift (CES): Growth rate of clean energy minus growth rate of total energy demand 🔌 Why clean energy is now the cheapest option in most developing countries 🌍 How regional climate impacts differ dramatically from global average temperature (Africa vs Europe vs small islands) 🎯 Why "percent clean energy" should replace temperature as our north star metric (aiming for 100%) 📉 The challenge of measuring energy: Primary vs useful energy, and why efficiency gains complicate the numbers ⚡ Heat pumps, electric vehicles, and electrification: 💡 Why clean energy shift creates positive competition between countries (not just climate guilt) 🗳️ Why clean energy targets need to enter UNFCCC discussions alongside temperature goals 🔬 The data challenge: Why IEA and others need to release standardized, open-access energy data 📐 The paradox of our time: Passing "safety limits" while developing real solutions 🔭 The narrative shift from "avoid catastrophe" to "build clean energy abundance" 👨‍🏫 Guest Bios: Kwesi Quagraine is a climate scientist at NCAR (National Center for Atmospheric Research) and former senior lecturer at the University of Cape Coast, Ghana, where he taught physics, meteorology, and atmospheric science. Originally from Ghana, Kwesi brings vital perspectives on how climate policy impacts developing nations and expertise in climate modeling, including solar radiation management research. Erle Ellis is a professor of geography and environmental systems at the University of Maryland Baltimore County. His work with the United Nations Development Program's Human Development Report focuses on aspirational indicators for making a better future. Erle has spent decades studying global environmental change and teaching students how human societies interact with planetary systems. 📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● The Clean Energy Shift paper — Quagraine, Ellis, Lynas et al. (Nature, 2025) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-026-00246-z ● Michael Liebreich — "The Pragmatic Climate Reset" essay Part 1 / Part 2 ● EMBER energy data and analysis https://ember-climate.org ● International Energy Agency (IEA) energy statistics https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics ● Mark Lynas — Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet https://www.marklynas.org/books/six-degrees/ ● WMO (World Meteorological Organization) temperature data https://wmo.int/topics/climate ● Paris Agreement (2015) — text and NDC framework https://unfccc.int/process-and-meetings/the-paris-agreement 🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org 📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: @weplanetint

    1h 4m
  8. Bad Idea #36 "No infinite growth on a finite planet" with Adam Dorr

    JAN 22

    Bad Idea #36 "No infinite growth on a finite planet" with Adam Dorr

    Is “degrowth” a noble environmental solution — or one of history’s truly terrible ideas? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Adam Dorr, Director of Research at RethinkX and author of The Degrowth Delusion: Dispelling One of History’s Truly Terrible Ideas. Dorr argues that degrowth — the increasingly popular environmental movement calling for economic contraction — meets every criterion of a “Truly Terrible Idea”: it sounds virtuous, promises the moon, spreads easily, appeals especially to the young, and catastrophically backfires when implemented. Mark and Adam explore why degrowth misunderstands economic growth itself, why material “stuff” is not the same as value, how technological progress consistently decouples prosperity from environmental harm, and why shrinking the global economy could never solve climate change — and would instead cause mass deprivation, collapse, and tyranny. If you’ve ever heard the phrase “you can’t have infinite growth on a finite planet,” this conversation will challenge your assumptions. And it lays the groundwork for next episode’s deep dive into the optimistic, data-driven alternative: a future where humanity and nature both thrive. 🧠 Topics Discussed: 💡 What makes an idea a “Truly Terrible Idea” (TTI) — and why degrowth qualifies🌍 Why degrowth’s core logic (“too many people consuming too much”) is seductive but false📉 Why “infinite growth on a finite planet” misunderstands value, not stuff🐎 How technological progress (e.g., cars replacing horses, digital replacing film) eliminates old harms🔌 Why degrowth would block the very innovations (solar, EVs, biotech) that solve environmental problems🔥 The “house on fire” analogy: why reducing emissions 50% still leaves the house burning📉 GDP vs wellbeing: is economic growth actually correlated with human development?🌐 Why degrowth is a luxury belief seldom embraced by people who’ve experienced real poverty😡 The role of resentment, pessimism and misanthropy in the appeal of degrowth🏛️ Why degrowth requires authoritarian state control and cannot be implemented democratically🤝 The win–win path: how technology enables prosperity and ecological restoration🔭 Why environmentalism desperately needs a credible, optimistic, tech-enabled vision of the future👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Adam Dorr is the Director of Research at RethinkX, a nonprofit think tank analyzing how new technologies disrupt existing systems. He is the lead author of The Degrowth Delusion, a sweeping critique of degrowth ideology and a roadmap for a technologically enabled, sustainable future. Dorr’s work spans energy, food, transportation, and long-term civilizational pathways. 📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● The Degrowth Delusion — Adam Dorr ● RethinkX research reports (energy, food, transport disruptions) ● Studies on GDP vs Human Development Index (UNDP) ● The Limits to Growth: Malthus and the Classical Economists ● Steven Pinker — Enlightenment Now ● Literature on zero-sum vs non-zero-sum thinking 💬 Quote Highlights: “Truly terrible ideas don’t die out on their own — they must be actively refuted.” — Adam Dorr “It’s not that we need to do less — it’s that we need to do better.” — Adam Dorr “There is no sustainable amount of fire. Reducing emissions by half still leaves your house burning.” — Adam Dorr “Poverty is not virtuous. It is not something to aspire to. To believe otherwise is a failure of compassion.” — Adam Dorr “Technology is the only way we have a rational, data-driven basis for optimism.” — Adam Dorr 🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org 📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: @weplanetint

    1h 5m
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The world is shaped by ideas—some good, some bad, and some that seemed good at the time. This is a podcast about rethinking the things we take for granted, challenging sacred cows, and admitting when we’ve been wrong. With your host, awarded environmental author and activist Mark Lynas, we take a deep dive into the environmental, political, and social debates shaping our future—without the outrage, tribalism, or easy answers. Help us save the world from bad ideas. Because the future depends on us getting it right.

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